Okay, how about a 9mm rifle?  Any advantages of 9mm in a rifle platform?  

When will they come out with the ultimate defensive pistol, the double stack Deegle?
I can't wait for that sucker to hit the LGS shelves, preferably in gold tiger stripe.

It all comes down to the projectile used. If the projectile was designed to expand at normal pistol velocities (like most 9mm bullets), then it might fragment and not reached the required depth when fired from a rifle barrel.

I had a patient, 17 y/o obese male, who was shot 6 times with 9mm FMJ.  He went home the same day.  Wounds were in the legs, arms and torso.  No vital or vascular damage. No fractures. Yes, he was lucky, but he was luckier that it was FMJ. Just a bunch of clean holes.  Bandages and antibiotics and some rest. Moral of the story, use JHP and aim COM.

9mm compared to .223 and .308


Not really any point once you get into rifles. You can shoot the .223 just as fast if not faster. Even with the added barrel length, 5.56/.223 still has a huge advantage as far as velocity and practicality.

I still want a 9mm carbine of either Uzi or HK type. It's the last rifle I want to add to my collection.

Nothing wrong with that. Just know its limits.

Not much of an issue with the 9x19; some loads will actually chrono slower from a 16" barrel than a 5".

Interesting.

 

No.  Just no.

With all of the free and available information out there, how is it possible to have this much herpity derpity on a gun site?

There are so many things wrong with that that I am going to go beat the crap out of my dog.

I gave it little from the start.  Unless the good folks at the Atlanta PD are cooking the stats harder than anyone else, I figure anyone claiming to do 3000 autopsies on shooting victims a year to be pretty full of it.

Pistols suck; get over it.

9mm NATO: 387 FPE
.40 S&W 165: 412 FPE
.45 ACP: 450 FPE

M193: 1210 FPE
M80: 2600 FPE
12 ga buckshot: 1590 FPE

Service pistol caliber does not matter.

Pistols suck; get over it. Carry what you want to carry.

.40 is more powerful than 9mm, but not enough to matter. .45 is bigger, but not enough to matter.

It's like 12 gauge standard 00 vs 12 gauge reduced recoil 00. Standard is more powerful, but it doesn't matter against a human target. Both will penetrate through the average human torso, so that extra few hundred feet per second doesn't matter.  

Or .243 Winchester vs .30-06 on a white tail deer. The .30 is bigger and more powerful, but both are so powerful that either will achieve one shot kills on a deer.

The obsession with caliber is childish. Carry what you want. It all sucks anyway. Capacity is king.

Mindset > Tactics > Skill > Gear

When we compare handguns to long guns, the best comparision is subguns and shotguns. High velocity rifles create massive temporal cavities, something that low velocity rounds cannot do. A subgun or shotgun basically puts many pistol rounds on target very rapidly.

Within range, 00 buck is eight or nine .33 caliber pellets propelled at pistol velocity which strike the target all at once. Each buckshot pellet is only as effective as a single shot from a .32 ACP or a .380 ACP.  The 12 gauge has long been regarded as an excellent manstopper, within its range limitations.

A properly employed subgun puts a short burst of three to six pistol rounds on target. Numerous, rapid hits of pistol ammunition.

Both the subgun and the shotgun have been abandoned as primary weapons by both police entry teams and the military. The 5.56 autoloading rifle is superior in almost all aspects. It offers increased range, trajectory, accuracy, and terminal effect. The shotgun has mostly been relegated to door breaching and less leathal rounds. The subgun is now primarily used in a specialized supressed role.

Pistols are great at being small. Service pistol cartridges are not great fight stoppers. Caliber is irrelevant; multiple hits to center line is the most effective way to use the pistol. God put all the important stuff in one place. Hits to the heart and lungs shuts down the circulatory system. Hits to the CNS, the brain and the upper spine, will shut everything down.

Some fights are won when the bad guy gives up, but some bad guys are more determined than others. Rage, drugs, and/or mental mindset can allow a bad guy to take multiple lethal rounds and keep fighting until blood pressure drops enough to shut down the brain. There is no guaranteed one shot stop, unless the round destroys the CNS. However, the brain is a tough target because the skull is designed to protect it and he spine acts as armor for the spinal cord. This is why most commonly we aim for centerline.

The primary wounding component of pistols is penetration. Slight differences in caliber make slightly bigger holes, and hollowpoints create slightly more internal trauma, but not really enough to matter. A pistol round is a pistol round.

Handguns suck, get over it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Except for 10mm. 10 millimeter is best millimeter.

Good catch.

You do realize that's for 9mm NATO, which is a 124gr FMJ round? Of course it's going to suck.

Since he even typed the word "NATO" in his post, I'm gonna suggest that he is aware.

I've always wondered about using a Beretta CX4 or a 9mm AR as a defensive weapon.  

What type of 9mm load/weight would be considerably faster from a 16in barrel?  



 

Pistol powder is designed to burn quickly, rifle powders burn slowly. This is because of barrel length.

Holy shit.

In all my years of reading GD, this has to be in the Top 10 retarded posts I have ever read (and I have been lurking since 01 or so, the fear factor challenge).

There are only a few ways that this becomes plausible:

1: This is a troll account

2: School is out for summer, and first thing this guy did after he got off the short bus was to slam his ham sammich counting to potato hands all over the keyboard until he found arfcom.

3: It is true what the say about 13'ers

QFT

The comedy just keeps coming in this thread. From the initial video, which I found humorous, to the fact that it actually spurred a caliber debate, to several of the posts.

Ah, it's good to laugh

-JC

Let it be known that on this day in 2013, not only Arfcom, but the internet as a whole got a little bit dumber.

Just some screwball spewing bogus information I guess.  

 

John Moses Browning improved on the 1911 by making it a 9mm high power

I carry my G19 w/o the +1 or extra mags. I'm confident in my skill and the amount of ammo I have.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I carry a glock 19 or 26 usually with 124's. I'm big on 9mm because I own a FA Uzi and roll my own 147's for the suppressor. I also shoot the reloads in my glocks. That being said this thread does have me thinking I should look at some HP's to carry and train with instead of just using the FMJ's all the time.

F'n double tap

357 SIG for the WINNNNNNNNNNNN

I don't care who you are, that is some Teri  1 bullshit right there.

You ever see the amount of shit that texasrifleman guy carries? For the longest time I was convinced he was a troll but now I actually think he's serious. Some of the most ridiculously over the top EDC setups I've ever seen in my fucking life.

Can speak from experience that 9MM is sufficient.  When I was young I was stupid and hung with the wrong crowd. By age 13 I had witnessed several shootouts. One of last times I hung around my "friends", I witnessed yet another shootout.  The difference this time is that the guys shooting at us had been practicing and all had Glock 17s.

One of my good friends, Daniel, had a .25 acp On him. His brother had a .357 snubby.  My friend with the wheel gun started firing first, unfortunately they had zero training.  The other guys returned fire and immediately put him down. So his little brother started firing with the .25 from about 20 yards or so. He was just aiming in their general direction and firing as fast as possibe. No cover at all.  That immediately drew the other guys fire and they took him out of the fight with one shot. They randomly shot two more people and left. As they drove off they stopped and emptied their magazines at my now downed friends. Fortunately they were no longer aiming. So my  friend, the older brother had taken a round through the chest and through his lft ear, as he turned to run he took a round to his left lower back.

His younger brother with the .25 took one round right above his left front hip joint. As the bad guys drove off shootng, they tagged the older brother in the top inside of his left ankle. The bullet entered his ankle and exited out of the bottom of his foot. He survived. The doctors removed part of his left lung. The bullets went in and out.  He also lost 7 feet of intestines because of the round from behind.  His little brother only sixteen, took the one round and it hit about four inches to the left of his belly button. Unfortunately the round hit his artery and He bled out in under a minute.  I really recosidered my friends after this incident. I chose a more responsible path and "grew" up.  

That being said they were both shot and immediately incapacitated by 9mm fmj target rounds.   One of them fataly.  So IMHO 9mm is plenty powerful enough.  

Bad part of my life, but I am always prepared. I say if you need a stronger round it shout be centerfire rifled.

Yep a whole lot of OMFG up in here.  Dude makes a funny video about PEOPLE  and the ADHD is so strong in here that ARFCOM does EXACTLY what he is poking fun at.  
Full Of Win!

'MERICA!

The better trained and more experianced someone is the less they seem to care about caliber IME.

Now post the one with the 10mm on it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

1. not a troll account. i know arfcom likes pictures, i will take pics of my springfield armory stainles 1911, my shield, and my lcp. i dont care that much to actually do it but i can if you really think im trolling

2. ive been out of school for over 1 .5 years now. no short bus, COLLEGE.

3.  make your own judgements. i may come off silly or whatever, but i dont care.


lots of people being silly on me. i dont care, im a 20013'er, i dont care. typical arfcom e-penis fights.

i find this to be truth.

I'd guess you lose all e-penis fights.

A team membership says I can fire my first mag reload and empty both of my extra magazines before you can empty all three of your carry guns.





Post your video.





Oh, and I'll be on target too.





Distance is of your choosing.
 

THE GAUNTLET HAS BEEN THROWN.

So how's that English Literature degree working out for you?  



 

yeah its all fun and games and free team memberships in a practiced, multi-take video session.

when people are screaming and limbs are are everywhere and you dont have time to think, whats easier?

thumbing your mag release dropping a mag, making sure it clears, grabbing a fresh mag, making sure you insert the mag into the mag well with shaky hands, slamming it in and racking /releasing the slide,

or just grabbing another ready to go gun.

i report, you decide.

and no video im sorry. if you want you can think your method is better and we can all go on living our happy lives.

If it weren't against coc I'd make a .380 for coyotes thread.

dont care much about english/grammar/punctuation on the internet. as long as the message is clear then idc. it works.

Username - check
Join date - check
Extravagant bragging - check

All criteria met. You're completely full of shit. Have a nice day

only real trolls try hardest to deny they are trolling. and keep continuing the argument. im going to bow out of this discussion, time will prove im not a troll.

you guys can think what you want, it really doesnt matter. i was just explaining my position/ pov on how/why i carry and the advantages i see. nobody has pointed out any valid holes in my method, youve just said that im trolling and i just got off the shortbus

you guys sound like trolls, yet point out even ONE thing in my 3 carry method you disagree with. its just ''troll'' ''shortbus'' and ''dumbest thing ive read on gd in 32 years''


and what am i bragging about? i honestly didnt mean to come off that way if i did.
now whos trolling who?

Tell me more about how good or bad each side was.