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Hamel
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:32:35 PM

Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
what's the issue...

people don't want to wait in line
rules say disabled are given right of way thru the line
those with the money, hire the disabled to get them tru the right of way.
Disabled profits and gets a free trip to DW
wealthier among us spend money insuring jobs to both the disabled and the people of Disney from
the floor sweeper to the director of operations.

it's called CAPITALISM

fuck your 1% nonsense, with out the 1%, the 99% would eat each other.

Disney already has a VIP tour service that allows you to skip lines and more. The handicapped route is costing Disney those funds.

Their park, their rules....capitalism and all that.

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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:32:46 PM
[Last Edit: 5/23/2013 2:33:58 PM by Dr_Octagon]
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Their policy, their rules. Instead of arguing this with me, Here's the people you should argue this with


I don't care what their policy is or if they change it. I just think the "loophole" was going to be used sooner or later with policies like that.

I also never got the point of special treatment over equal treatment in the non-exceptional cases.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:34:36 PM
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:


I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


I don't know. I see your point. Maybe I'm just biased.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:35:09 PM
Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Except they think they're doing good. Idiots.

I'm pretty sure the disabled classification covers more than just people who are mental disabled.

The real question is, why is Disney giving perks to those who are not disabled?

If they restrict it to only those with the actual disability, plus maybe one supervisor if the situation calls for it, then this will go away instantly.

The truth is that Disney allows more people into the parks than they have services for.



There's your problem right there.
It sucks to stand in a line that lasts for an hour to ride something that takes < 5 mins. If the lines were shorter, people wouldn't look for ways to get around them.
Raise entrance fees and cap admission. Make it more exclusive and make it more enjoyable.



I remember days when management would close the front gate until the number of exiting guests permitted more incoming. Talk about some pissed-off families waiting at the Transportation and Ticket Center being turned away.

The problem is that the Magic Kingdom (and other Disney parks I am sure) has reached the physical limit of its ability to expand and add more attractions which would equate to more capacity. I know for a fact that there are some hard boundaries to the Magic Kingdom that can't be crossed. This is why Disney has built other parks on the Florida property (it is amazing how much land they actually own) including some of the lesser known parks like; Typhoon Lagoon Water Park, Disney Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom.
Hamel
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:35:11 PM

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Except they think they're doing good. Idiots.

Yep. Stopping people from defrauding them....those fucking assholes.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:37:23 PM

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I wonder where they hire these people from? Craigslist?

Most likely. I know that's where people were listing to rent out there yearly passes to people. People were making a killing off of those until Disney found out about it. Now you have to show picture ID and it has to match. That was a booming business for people for many years.
Hamel
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:38:53 PM

Originally Posted By Makarov:
Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Except they think they're doing good. Idiots.

I'm pretty sure the disabled classification covers more than just people who are mental disabled.

The real question is, why is Disney giving perks to those who are not disabled?

If they restrict it to only those with the actual disability, plus maybe one supervisor if the situation calls for it, then this will go away instantly.

The truth is that Disney allows more people into the parks than they have services for.



There's your problem right there.
It sucks to stand in a line that lasts for an hour to ride something that takes < 5 mins. If the lines were shorter, people wouldn't look for ways to get around them.
Raise entrance fees and cap admission. Make it more exclusive and make it more enjoyable.



I remember days when management would close the front gate until the number of exiting guests permitted more incoming. Talk about some pissed-off families waiting at the Transportation and Ticket Center being turned away.

The problem is that the Magic Kingdom (and other Disney parks I am sure) has reached the physical limit of its ability to expand and add more attractions which would equate to more capacity. I know for a fact that there are some hard boundaries to the Magic Kingdom that can't be crossed. This is why Disney has built other parks on the Florida property (it is amazing how much land they actually own) including some of the lesser known parks like; Typhoon Lagoon Water Park, Disney Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom.
What are you talking about? Magic kingdom just added a whole new section that opened less than 6 months ago and they still have more rides still under construction.

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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:40:06 PM
[Last Edit: 5/23/2013 2:42:03 PM by klinc]

Originally Posted By Makarov:
Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Except they think they're doing good. Idiots.

I'm pretty sure the disabled classification covers more than just people who are mental disabled.

The real question is, why is Disney giving perks to those who are not disabled?

If they restrict it to only those with the actual disability, plus maybe one supervisor if the situation calls for it, then this will go away instantly.

The truth is that Disney allows more people into the parks than they have services for.



There's your problem right there.
It sucks to stand in a line that lasts for an hour to ride something that takes < 5 mins. If the lines were shorter, people wouldn't look for ways to get around them.
Raise entrance fees and cap admission. Make it more exclusive and make it more enjoyable.



I remember days when management would close the front gate until the number of exiting guests permitted more incoming. Talk about some pissed-off families waiting at the Transportation and Ticket Center being turned away.

The problem is that the Magic Kingdom (and other Disney parks I am sure) has reached the physical limit of its ability to expand and add more attractions which would equate to more capacity. I know for a fact that there are some hard boundaries to the Magic Kingdom that can't be crossed. This is why Disney has built other parks on the Florida property (it is amazing how much land they actually own) including some of the lesser known parks like; Typhoon Lagoon Water Park, Disney Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom.

3 or 4 days out of the year they still close the parks in phases. Last phase is "No one in at all". People are warned before they even get to the parking lot on those days.

They have a shit ton of space down there to expand. Magic just opened up a new area late last year and Animal Kingdom is still planning on expanding for an Avatar land. It will be a long while before they run out of room.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:41:43 PM
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
Originally Posted By Makarov:
Maybe things are different now but when I worked for Disney at the Magic Kingdom, disabled guests did not skip the wait. Each attraction had its own SOP for boarding disabled guests and it usually involved having an able-bodied companion go through the line and notify the host/hostess when they got close to the front. Depending on the attraction and the length of the line this procedure might be adjusted slightly. IIRC- This SOP was actually reviewed and approved by a advocacy group for the disabled as part of their; "we don't want to be treated special, just accommodated" campaign. The only time I saw special treatment given to anybody during normal park hours was to "Make-A-Wish" kids.

I worked there before the "Fast-Pass" and other pay for privilege options were made available so maybe things have changed


That makes sense if that's the case. It hasn't been like that at other parks/events though. If that's still their policy, I have no qualms with it... but the fact that people were hiring disabled folks to skip lines kind of makes it obvious that their policy changed at some point.


I haven't worked there for almost a quarter century and I haven't visited the park in the last ten years so I don't really know what is going on these days.

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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:44:25 PM
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Their policy, their rules. Instead of arguing this with me, Here's the people you should argue this with


I have a feeling that if they did not have that policy, some ADA compliance person would force them to. I could be wrong though.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:49:14 PM
I don't get what the outrage is on this.

Someone wants a service, someone else is willing to provide service for $x.xx. Sounds like win win to me.

Those folks were making $1k a day doing this. That is some serious change.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:49:53 PM
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Good.

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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:52:14 PM
Were I King of Disney, I think the easy way to stop this crap would be to change the rule so that the disabled person plus ONE and ONLY one assistant gets to go through the alternate path, If with a larger group, they wait until the rest reaches the front of the queue then joins them for the ride. Disabilities would have to be genuine... i.e. not just a big tub of lard who rents a "Costanza cart" (Seinfeld reference there) to claim front of the line priviledges for themselves and their twelve "aunties."
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Posted: 5/23/2013 2:59:14 PM


..... SNIP ....

I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


A lot of the entrances to the rides at Disney are not accessible for wheel chairs but most of the exits are. Most of the time, they are not cutting to the front of the line but simply going in through the exit. Should they stack a line of disabled folks up for two hours partially blocking the exits? Maybe so if that would keep everything "fair".

But then again how fair do you think a parent feels it is while they watch your kids running around Disneyland with full mobility, regular vision,and cognitive ability while they get stares and gawks all day while making every effort possible to try to give their disabled child a fraction of the experiences that come to your kids just by buying the ticket and walking in the front gate?

Why don't you tie your kid to a chair, blindfold them and then take them to Disneyland? You have no idea what unfair is.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:02:21 PM
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:


..... SNIP ....

I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


A lot of the entrances to the rides at Disney are not accessible for wheel chairs but most of the exits are. Most of the time, they are not cutting to the front of the line but simply going in through the exit. Should they stack a line of disabled folks up for two hours partially blocking the exits? Maybe so if that would keep everything "fair".

But then again how fair do you think a parent feels it is while they watch your kids running around Disneyland with full mobility, regular vision,and cognitive ability while they get stares and gawks all day while making every effort possible to try to give their disabled child a fraction of the experiences that come to your kids just by buying the ticket and walking in the front gate?

Why don't you tie your kid to a chair, blindfold them and then take them to Disneyland? You have no idea what unfair is.


We have little to no control over LIFE being unfair. Companies have control over their policies being unfair.

Treating people equally is NOT unfair. Thinking that a business is the correct place to right life's wrongs is silly and leads to a lot of things almost everyone on this site disagrees with.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:03:22 PM
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I don't get what the outrage is on this.

Someone wants a service, someone else is willing to provide service for $x.xx. Sounds like win win to me.

Those folks were making $1k a day doing this. That is some serious change.


Combination of having to get their titties in a twist over something and jealousy because they have to wait in line all day while someone with a little ingenuity figured out a way to get ahead.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:08:05 PM
This is a crock of shit.

It's not like people were faking disabilities...

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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:21:48 PM
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:


A lot of the entrances to the rides at Disney are not accessible for wheel chairs but most of the exits are. Most of the time, they are not cutting to the front of the line but simply going in through the exit. Should they stack a line of disabled folks up for two hours partially blocking the exits? Maybe so if that would keep everything "fair".

But then again how fair do you think a parent feels it is while they watch your kids running around Disneyland with full mobility, regular vision,and cognitive ability while they get stares and gawks all day while making every effort possible to try to give their disabled child a fraction of the experiences that come to your kids just by buying the ticket and walking in the front gate?

Why don't you tie your kid to a chair, blindfold them and then take them to Disneyland? You have no idea what unfair is.


Someone gets it.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:23:27 PM
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:


..... SNIP ....

I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


A lot of the entrances to the rides at Disney are not accessible for wheel chairs but most of the exits are. Most of the time, they are not cutting to the front of the line but simply going in through the exit. Should they stack a line of disabled folks up for two hours partially blocking the exits? Maybe so if that would keep everything "fair".

But then again how fair do you think a parent feels it is while they watch your kids running around Disneyland with full mobility, regular vision,and cognitive ability while they get stares and gawks all day while making every effort possible to try to give their disabled child a fraction of the experiences that come to your kids just by buying the ticket and walking in the front gate?

Why don't you tie your kid to a chair, blindfold them and then take them to Disneyland? You have no idea what unfair is.


We have little to no control over LIFE being unfair. Companies have control over their policies being unfair.

Treating people equally is NOT unfair. Thinking that a business is the correct place to right life's wrongs is silly and leads to a lot of things almost everyone on this site disagrees with.


To say that life is unfair but expect Disney to be able to accommodate everyone equally and fairly sounds like you are taking the "Magic Kingdom" part a little too literally. I think that Disney does a pretty good job most of the time when it comes to creating a good experience for everyone. The article that the OP shared just proves your point that in their efforts they created a situation that people found a way to take advantage.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:28:57 PM
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Is selling drugs gainful employment?

This is fraud.


The paying people are not members of the disabled person's party?
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Posted: 5/23/2013 3:52:29 PM

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Is selling drugs gainful employment?

This is fraud.


The paying people are not members of the disabled person's party?

They became a part of the party when they got paid

No different than taking a call girl to a cocktail party. She's not really my girlfriend, I just paid her to dress up nice and hang on my arm.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 4:11:09 PM
[Last Edit: 5/23/2013 4:12:24 PM by regalrocket]
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Is selling drugs gainful employment?

This is fraud.


The paying people are not members of the disabled person's party?


Where are the "party" limits?

Each HIRED ADA excuse gets to get 2,4,6,8,50 people to the front of the line? Or is it based on how bad off they are?

Meanwhile some family who drove from god knows where for their one vacation of their life sits in line for 2 hours?

Just sell these disabled contractors like slaves or like cats at the SPCA. Line em up and you can pick the cute, just disabled enough to kid to get you to the front version. Let the really badly disabled kids sit there and wait until there are none left but them?

Why is selling yourself for sex illegal, but selling yourself as a breathing quick pass not?


Yea this goes a real long way towards advancing these disability programs at other places and events. Talk about abusing a section of society.

What about selling your disabled baby for a day at a time so people can bring them to events? Maybe sell little black kids outside hollywood events for the rich to borrow? I hear the ones that look like Obama garner a higher daily rental fee.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 5:41:54 PM
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:

We have little to no control over LIFE being unfair. Companies have control over their policies being unfair.

Treating people equally is NOT unfair. Thinking that a business is the correct place to right life's wrongs is silly and leads to a lot of things almost everyone on this site disagrees with.


To say that life is unfair but expect Disney to be able to accommodate everyone equally and fairly sounds like you are taking the "Magic Kingdom" part a little too literally. I think that Disney does a pretty good job most of the time when it comes to creating a good experience for everyone. The article that the OP shared just proves your point that in their efforts they created a situation that people found a way to take advantage.


Would you be opposed to having a virtual place holder made available that just let you know when you could go to the front of the line? Same wait, but sit in the shade or AC or whatever. I just don't think allowing disabled people (in most cases) to skip lines does anything really.

I had a militant wheelchair bound friend who HATED special treatment of any kind. He was kind of a dick though.
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Posted: 5/23/2013 7:09:23 PM
Originally Posted By Hamel:

Originally Posted By Makarov:
Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
These disabled people have found gainful employment and now Disney is going to leave them unemployed.


Except they think they're doing good. Idiots.

I'm pretty sure the disabled classification covers more than just people who are mental disabled.

The real question is, why is Disney giving perks to those who are not disabled?

If they restrict it to only those with the actual disability, plus maybe one supervisor if the situation calls for it, then this will go away instantly.

The truth is that Disney allows more people into the parks than they have services for.



There's your problem right there.
It sucks to stand in a line that lasts for an hour to ride something that takes < 5 mins. If the lines were shorter, people wouldn't look for ways to get around them.
Raise entrance fees and cap admission. Make it more exclusive and make it more enjoyable.



I remember days when management would close the front gate until the number of exiting guests permitted more incoming. Talk about some pissed-off families waiting at the Transportation and Ticket Center being turned away.

The problem is that the Magic Kingdom (and other Disney parks I am sure) has reached the physical limit of its ability to expand and add more attractions which would equate to more capacity. I know for a fact that there are some hard boundaries to the Magic Kingdom that can't be crossed. This is why Disney has built other parks on the Florida property (it is amazing how much land they actually own) including some of the lesser known parks like; Typhoon Lagoon Water Park, Disney Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom.
What are you talking about? Magic kingdom just added a whole new section that opened less than 6 months ago and they still have more rides still under construction.


My understanding was they gutted and rebuilt Fantasyland and in the process they finally re-tasked the real estate that was the long since abandoned "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" attraction.
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Posted: 5/24/2013 12:05:07 PM
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:


I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


I don't know. I see your point. Maybe I'm just biased.


I think we're all biased to a certain extent. As someone who, thankfully, isn't disabled, I'm sure I see this differently than someone who is disabled.

In all honesty, I don't really have a problem with a paraplegic going to the front of the line. It's the people hiring paraplegics to "cheat" that I dislike.
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DriveNASCAR
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Posted: 5/24/2013 12:06:56 PM
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:


..... SNIP ....

I agree that it's their business and their rules. But, aside from the fact that their rules are arguably unfair to non-disabled people, they're also the perfect set up for people to abuse them. Disney doesn't seem too thrilled with the latter.

The only way to keep people from hiring disabled people to cut in line is to stop allowing disabled people to cut in line at all.


A lot of the entrances to the rides at Disney are not accessible for wheel chairs but most of the exits are. Most of the time, they are not cutting to the front of the line but simply going in through the exit. Should they stack a line of disabled folks up for two hours partially blocking the exits? Maybe so if that would keep everything "fair".

But then again how fair do you think a parent feels it is while they watch your kids running around Disneyland with full mobility, regular vision,and cognitive ability while they get stares and gawks all day while making every effort possible to try to give their disabled child a fraction of the experiences that come to your kids just by buying the ticket and walking in the front gate?

Why don't you tie your kid to a chair, blindfold them and then take them to Disneyland? You have no idea what unfair is.


We have little to no control over LIFE being unfair. Companies have control over their policies being unfair.

Treating people equally is NOT unfair. Thinking that a business is the correct place to right life's wrongs is silly and leads to a lot of things almost everyone on this site disagrees with.


This.

You saved me a lot of typing.
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Rigmarole
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Posted: 5/24/2013 12:30:51 PM
[Last Edit: 5/24/2013 12:34:52 PM by Rigmarole]
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
Originally Posted By Rigmarole:
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:

We have little to no control over LIFE being unfair. Companies have control over their policies being unfair.

Treating people equally is NOT unfair. Thinking that a business is the correct place to right life's wrongs is silly and leads to a lot of things almost everyone on this site disagrees with.


To say that life is unfair but expect Disney to be able to accommodate everyone equally and fairly sounds like you are taking the "Magic Kingdom" part a little too literally. I think that Disney does a pretty good job most of the time when it comes to creating a good experience for everyone. The article that the OP shared just proves your point that in their efforts they created a situation that people found a way to take advantage.


Would you be opposed to having a virtual place holder made available that just let you know when you could go to the front of the line? Same wait, but sit in the shade or AC or whatever. I just don't think allowing disabled people (in most cases) to skip lines does anything really.

I had a militant wheelchair bound friend who HATED special treatment of any kind. He was kind of a dick though.


I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. It is about providing equal access, not special treatment, especially at places like Disney.

In our local community, we do have some great organizations that go out of ther way to create events specifically for disabled kids. For example, the Reno Rodeo Foundation and PRCA put on a Special Kids Rodeo every year (http://www.renorodeo.com/events_detail.aspx?id=52 ). Personally, I would agree that this may be special treatment but don't think that this is unfair to the non-disabled children as it is a community specific event and not a for profit business open to general public. I think we can be level headed on where we make positive outreaches to our special needs communities and skipping lines at Disneyland doesn't need to be one of them.

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