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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:37:52 AM EDT
[#1]
"It's ironic that he could survive two tours in Iraq, but couldn't survive the violence on the south side of Chicago," said his mother, Carolyn Wortham.
That should go well at the civil trial. "Ms. Wortham- since you have opined that the "...violence on the south side of Chicago" is most proximate to what killed your son, why are we here today suing a federally licensed firearms dealer from MS?" |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:40:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Brady turds need to prove it was a straw purchase and that the shop knew at the time of the sale...
hmmmmm.... hows about go after the alleged "straw purchaser" |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:42:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Straw buyer?
A fact or just supposition and speculation. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:42:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Why don't gun owners get together and pressure .gov to sue the Brady Campaign for attempted violation of our civil rights?
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:44:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I thought FFLs had immunity from civil law suits related to gun sales.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:46:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Again, blame someone else for some gang banger thugs actions.
 The south side of Chicago is a toilet bowl and these people are just trying to get money for nothing because they know they're not going to get it from the criminals that Chicago politicians refuse to acknowledge as the real problem.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:46:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I thought FFLs had immunity from civil law suits related to gun sales. If they don't then there's a huge incentive to not follow federal law pertaining to sales. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:46:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Straw buyer? A fact or just supposition and speculation. I heard mention on a radio news piece that the gun in question was one of 8 purchased in the same transaction. I would have been asking a whoooole lot of questions if that was my name on the FFL.  |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:47:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Sounds like the real issue is the Chicago court system didn't lock Gates up for being a criminal scumbag and then the college allowed a criminal scumbag to attend.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:47:56 AM EDT
[#10]
I have never been to Iraq or Chicago but I agree with Ms Wortham that Chicago is a shithole.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:49:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Would set a president to sue Members of the Gun Walker Scandal as it contributed to killing of officers in AZ?
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:50:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I thought FFLs had immunity from civil law suits related to gun sales. Chicago dosn't care about laws except the ones that deliver money into their pockets. They're currently ignoring the 7th Circuit ruling on conceal carry and have said they will continue to do so while trying to be carved out of any future carry bill. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:51:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Are they not protected by the Lawful Commerce in Arms act?
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:53:19 AM EDT
[#14]
If it was a "straw purchase" on the part of the buyer, then they're the one criminally liable.
What the fuck did the NICS* check say? Was the FFL supposed to have access to some sort of magical crystal ball which the federal gov't didn't? 
*which, I might add, was supposed to be the be-all end-all crime stopping wunder program when it was foisted on gun buyers and FFL holders 
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:54:15 AM EDT
[#15]
I think the Brady Center needs to show up in MS to protest the evil gun shop and the evil gun owners! They should bring their signs and physically confront these evil MS gun owners.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:56:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Find somebody else's grave to dance on.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:57:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I have never been to Iraq or Chicago but I agree with Ms Wortham that Chicago is a shithole. I have been to both. I liked Baghdad better then Chicago. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:01:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: I have never been to Iraq or Chicago but I agree with Ms Wortham that Chicago is a shithole. I have been to both. I liked Baghdad better then Chicago. And there you have it. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:02:42 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:02:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have never been to Iraq or Chicago but I agree with Ms Wortham that Chicago is a shithole. I have been to both. I liked Baghdad better then Chicago. And there you have it. Yes good enough for me. I would rather slam my dick in a door than vacation in either though. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:03:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I think the Brady Center needs to show up in MS to protest the evil gun shop and the evil gun owners! They should bring their signs and physically confront these evil MS gun owners.  |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:04:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Straw buyer? A fact or just supposition and speculation. I heard mention on a radio news piece that the gun in question was one of 8 purchased in the same transaction. I would have been asking a whoooole lot of questions if that was my name on the FFL. If that is true, FFL should have notified ATF and they should have done a follow up to make sure the buyer wasn't trafficking etc. If that occurred and ATF cleared the guy then the lawsuit should fail in a ball of fire. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:07:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
If it was a "straw purchase" on the part of the buyer, then they're the one criminally liable. What the fuck did the NICS* check say? Was the FFL supposed to have access to some sort of magical crystal ball which the federal gov't didn't?
*which, I might add, was supposed to be the be-all end-all crime stopping wunder program when it was foisted on gun buyers and FFL holders Not just that, but that background check is NAMED AFTER the organization suing that dealer. "I don't know what more you want lady, the purchaser passed the background check system YOUR ORGANIZATION created..." |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:07:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Too bad I'm not the judge handling this case because I would throw it the fuck out and hold them in contempt. If they need to sue someone it should be the criminals who murdered Tom, and the parents of the criminals for not post birth aborting their child. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:32:44 AM EDT
[#25]
They have an expert witness on straw purchases...Sarah Brady
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:34:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it was a "straw purchase" on the part of the buyer, then they're the one criminally liable. What the fuck did the NICS* check say? Was the FFL supposed to have access to some sort of magical crystal ball which the federal gov't didn't?
*which, I might add, was supposed to be the be-all end-all crime stopping wunder program when it was foisted on gun buyers and FFL holders Not just that, but that background check is NAMED AFTER the organization suing that dealer. "I don't know what more you want lady, the purchaser passed the background check system YOUR ORGANIZATION created..." Ban straw purchases for the childr.....err,wait.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:36:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
"It's ironic that he could survive two tours in Iraq, but couldn't survive the violence on the south side of Chicago," said his mother, Carolyn Wortham. Maybe if he were permitted to carry arms on the south side of shitcago, he could have protected himself as well as he would have been able to during his tours in Iraq. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:44:58 AM EDT
[#28]
the ten year murder rate in Chicago is higher then all deaths from Afghanistan, and its getting close to Iraq. The only difference is in those 2 sand boxes you carry gunof youre own so you can shoot back.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Straw buyer? A fact or just supposition and speculation. They heard about it on CNN and MSNBC so it must be true....
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Posted: 5/6/2013 11:51:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/139756006/Wortham-v-Ed-s-Pawn-Shop-Complaint http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=9078330 - It will be three years next month since the murder of police officer and Iraq war veteran Tom Wortham IV - shot to death in front of his parents' home by a group of men trying to steal his motorcycle. The criminal case against three men charged with the murder is slowly moving forward, but today is about a civil action focused on gun trafficking, and the contention that the Mississippi gun dealer could have halted a straw buy that led to a death. The .45 caliber handgun used in the murder of police officer Tom Wortham IV was purchased by a straw buyer in Byhalia, Miss. in 2007. It eventually made into the hands of street gang members now accused of Wortham's murder. "It's ironic that he could survive two tours in Iraq, but couldn't survive the violence on the south side of Chicago," said his mother, Carolyn Wortham. Wortham's parents are filing a civil lawsuit against Ed's Pawn Shop, the Mississippi gun dealer where the murder weapon was purchased. The Worthams and the Brady Center for the prevention of gun violence contend that the gun dealer was negligent in allowing the sale. Let me get this straight, the ATF approved the sale of the pistol in question to defendant Michael Elliot, but its Ed's Pawn Shop's fault that officer Tom Wortham IV was killed with that weapon by some gangbangers who got the gun from some other dirtbag named Quawi Gates who might have got it from Elliot? Why not lay the blame where it belongs, on the 4 gangbangers who killed Wortham? Prosecute Michael Elliot for "straw buys" if it can be proven, prosecute Quawi Gates for illegal weapon possession, but leave Ed's Pawn Shop out of the equation because the ATF gave permission to make the sale to Elliot via NICS. Elliot's money is as green as the next guy's and and if ATF says OK, then make the sale. Blame ATF if you want, but leave the gunshop alone. Most of the charges in this brief are just made up bullshit to fill up pages and cloud the issue and have no legal bearing on the case. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 11:53:11 AM EDT
[#31]
It will be interesting seeing how they prove causation. Arguably, xfer from the straw buyer to any other person would break the chain of causation -- assuming that xfer TO the straw buyer could be shown to constitute foreseeable causation. It seems certain to me that any brief ownership by a lawful possessor would break any chain of causation.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 11:54:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought FFLs had immunity from civil law suits related to gun sales. If they don't then there's a huge incentive to not follow federal law pertaining to sales. They have immunity for sales which comply with the law. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 11:57:20 AM EDT
[#33]
"It's ironic that he could survive two tours in Iraq, but couldn't survive the violence on the south side of Chicago," said his mother, Carolyn Wortham.
I "get it", but, at the same time, I'm tired of hearing this. Yes, it's ironic in a sense. But, shit happens. When people die like this, the stars align a certain way, events unfold, and it's just "meant" to be. I'm sure no one would be screaming about the irony if they had killed him with a torque wrench, instead of a gun. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:13:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
That takes Too much sense.
Brady turds need to prove it was a straw purchase and that the shop knew at the time of the sale... hmmmmm.... hows about go after the alleged "straw purchaser" |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:22:57 PM EDT
[#35]
I think I might go visit Ed's pawnshop this week and give them some business.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:23:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
If it was a "straw purchase" on the part of the buyer, then they're the one criminally liable. What the fuck did the NICS* check say? Was the FFL supposed to have access to some sort of magical crystal ball which the federal gov't didn't?
*which, I might add, was supposed to be the be-all end-all crime stopping wunder program when it was foisted on gun buyers and FFL holders Why not go the other direction and sue the maker of the gun instead of the dealer. Go after the miner who mined the metal as well as the paper company that printed the box that the rounds were shipped in. |
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:54:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Too bad I'm not the judge handling this case because I would throw it the fuck out and hold them in contempt.
If they need to sue someone it should be the criminals who murdered Tom, and the parents of the criminals for not post birth aborting their child. Nah, let it go for all eternity then toss it. Then bill the Bradys for the defendant's expenses. |
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