Do we care that Bomber #2 isn't being mirandized? NOW WITH POLL - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do we care that Bomber #2 isn't being mirandized? NOW WITH POLL (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:43:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If the questions are limited to further attacks/dangers to the public, I see no issue with the Quarles exception. Once it is determined that there is no danger to public safety, Miranda and interrogation should follow. I'm not seeing a big deal here.

I could go with this. Is anything he says before his miranda warning admissible in court?

They don't have to ask any questions concerning the crime he's commited a they already have more than enough! What the deal is we must know where the other cells are and whom they are....... This whole discussion is just a bunch of nanny boy whining............

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:43:21 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think he's presently able to speak, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Bingo. 'Serious' condition generally implies that someone is not exactly conscious, and if they are, they're drugged out of their mind, and won't understand what you tell him anyway.

In the long run... he's a citizen. He gets tried in a court. He gets proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Which should be very, very easy.

Then we get to kill him.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:45:18 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
is this guy a citizen or not??

Reportedly yes, since 9/11/12.

well I will have a problem if they try to try him in a military justice system.

Sure, grant him immunity regarding interrogation as to any other pending attacks. Later, in his criminal trial/investigation then mirandize him.

If they can't build a case w/ his post miranda statements & what other evidence they have then I would rather see him walk than loose my right to a non-military jury trail.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:46:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They'll Mirandize him later.

What does reading him Miranda do, other then possibly remind him of Rights he already has and should already know about?

And if that is the case, who fucking cares?

People keep saying he is not mirandized like it really means something dire for him. I don't get it.

This.

Does anyone here or anyone you know, not know of their rights when a badge carrier starts asking you questions?

You'd be surprised.

prolly most people dont' know they dont' have to answer cop's inane questions when getting pulled over etc.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:46:55 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
For a motherfucking Refugee they are! You are confused my friend this country owes him jack shit we saved his bitch ass from his own fucked up country and you think he has natural rights here? Maybe in Chechnya

He has natural rights everywhere. That's why they're natural rights. It's irrespective of his birth place or status as a citizen. The only issue that comes up is if we're responsible to protect those rights. We're responsible to protect the rights of those who are under our jurisdiction, and our citizens. He's both.

He's a naturalized citizen, not a visitor. That citizenship can only be revoked if he voluntarily withdraws his citizenship, or if he lied in his citizenship paperwork. So far neither has occurred.

Naturalized citizens are the same as natural born citizens, per the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

This whole thing: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

So he has natural rights, because he's a person, and he's a naturalized citizen, which means the Federal Government is responsible for protecting those rights.

He's going to get his punishment. Don't worry about that. And they're going to do it by the book.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:48:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
is this guy a citizen or not??

Reportedly yes, since 9/11/12.

well I will have a problem if they try to try him in a military justice system.

Sure, grant him immunity regarding interrogation as to any other pending attacks. Later, in his criminal trial/investigation then mirandize him.

If they can't build a case w/ his post miranda statements & what other evidence they have then I would rather see him walk than loose my right to a non-military jury trail.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:48:37 PM EDT

[#7]

I have always known what the Miranda Rights act was by heresay but never really read it.

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse! So how do we even have this as a law?

But since it is a law, then he needs to have it read to him. Anything that scumbag says should be used against him just like it reads.

Now I see why 0 wants him not to not be advised of his rights.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:49:29 PM EDT

[#8]

note, that regardless of whether they mirandize him, he has a right to remain silent now & forever, PERIOD. The fif doesn't begin only after you have mirandized.

Whether them not mirandizing him will lead to getting severely reduced sentenced later on down the road is the chance .gov is willing to take in the hope that his ignorance of his civil rights will yield actionable intelligence.

This whole thing is NOT a dangerous civil right precedent unless they try him in military court.

Fuckig little faggot becoming a citizen.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:49:42 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For a motherfucking Refugee they are! You are confused my friend this country owes him jack shit we saved his bitch ass from his own fucked up country and you think he has natural rights here? Maybe in Chechnya

He has natural rights everywhere. That's why they're natural rights. It's irrespective of his birth place or status as a citizen. The only issue that comes up is if we're responsible to protect those rights. We're responsible to protect the rights of those who are under our jurisdiction, and our citizens. He's both.

He's a naturalized citizen, not a visitor. That citizenship can only be revoked if he voluntarily withdraws his citizenship, or if he lied in his citizenship paperwork. So far neither has occurred.

Naturalized citizens are the same as natural born citizens, per the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

This whole thing: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

So he has natural rights, because he's a person, and he's a naturalized citizen, which means the Federal Government is responsible for protecting those rights.

He's going to get his punishment. Don't worry about that. And they're going to do it by the book.

This we can agree on!

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:50:46 PM EDT

[#10]

-nvm-

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:51:37 PM EDT

[#11]

I'm a libertarian, fuck-the-government type, but I draw the line at mass murder.

Fuck him in the nostril with a rusty spork.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:54:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Call me crazy, but I seem to remember a court decision that said just because you haven't been read your rights doesn't mean you don't have them.

And not to hi-jack, but around here they don't miranderize DUI's

" because drunks dont understand anyway".

'...you have the right to remain silent..........' so STFU.

But this guy will sing like a canary if they ever fix his jaw so he can speak again.

And then they can try him, and juice him, without him ever saying a word, if need be.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:54:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Fuck this bullshit poll with clownshoes questions. Having U.S. citizenship is a BFD, should not be taken lightly.

Posted: 4/20/2013 9:55:27 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the questions are limited to further attacks/dangers to the public, I see no issue with the Quarles exception. Once it is determined that there is no danger to public safety, Miranda and interrogation should follow. I'm not seeing a big deal here.

I could go with this. Is anything he says before his miranda warning admissible in court?

If the subject is asked about additional explosive devices he has stashed and he admits that there are such items, it could certainly be used in court. If LE starts asking about things that are outside of the scope of the public's immediate safety, the exception would most likely not apply and those answers would likely be tossed.

If someone confesses (excited utterance) after arrest and before Miranda/interrogation it can be used against them as well. Hence the "do not talk to the police" mantra. A lawyer could explain this far better than I can. Hopefully, dbrowne1 or one of the more educated gents will be around to discuss further.

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:01:09 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If the questions are limited to further attacks/dangers to the public, I see no issue with the Quarles exception. Once it is determined that there is no danger to public safety, Miranda and interrogation should follow. I'm not seeing a big deal here.

I could go with this. Is anything he says before his miranda warning admissible in court?

The answer is: Maybe.

The long answer is: Assuming he makes any incriminating statement absent a Miranda Warning, the gov't may attempt to introduce it. The defense may object to it being introduced. The trial judge will rule. That ruling may be appealed. Eventually, there will be an answer.

However, as far as this douchebag's trial, odds are anything he says won't be needed and may not be introduced. If there is a conspiracy that leads to other trials, that is when things get interesting.

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:05:10 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
This will be used as justification for repeated appeals in years to come and save him from the needle.

This!

Why would they not do it?

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:05:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Fuck this bullshit poll with clownshoes questions.

So....you didn't vote Lucy?

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:06:29 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Two things - First, I don't recall that a suspect has to be advised of Miranda rights unless they're going to be questioned. No questioning, no reading of rights.

Second, I think with all the cop shows on TV for the last 30-40 years, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know the Miranda warnings almost as well as actual cops do.

To be given a Miranda warning, the suspect must be in custody and they must be getting asked incriminating questions. If there is an imminent danger to the public, the warning may be skipped in order to address the danger.

In this case, if there are other terrorists out there working, or if there are bombs planted that have not been discovered, or where the firearms they used may be present an imminent danger to the people, so the Miranda warnings may be skipped to address those issues.

This is not an erosion to your rights.

It's like a fucking kindergarden Alex Jones class up in here............

His fucking rights are gifted to him not birthed so fuck him and the ship he floated in on......

Gifted rights?

No, brother. That's not how it works. Your rights are not granted by the government. We do not "gift" rights to anyone. They are natural rights. All humans have them. We spelled out what we think those rights are, but they're not the Governments to give. Because otherwise they'd be privileges.

For a motherfucking Refugee they are! You are confused my friend this country owes him jack shit we saved his bitch ass from his own fucked up country and you think he has natural rights here? Maybe in Chechnya

If a Foreign National is arrested/detained and accused of a crime, do they get the same rights as US citizens, or are they treated differently?

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:25:28 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Fuck this bullshit poll with clownshoes questions.

So....you didn't vote Lucy?

13er...

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:28:22 PM EDT

[#20]

50% of ARFCOM watches too much Adam-12.

You don't have to "Mirandize" anyone. You just can't use his testimony in court if you don't.

Posted: 4/20/2013 10:28:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Two things - First, I don't recall that a suspect has to be advised of Miranda rights unless they're going to be questioned. No questioning, no reading of rights.

Second, I think with all the cop shows on TV for the last 30-40 years, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know the Miranda warnings almost as well as actual cops do.

To be given a Miranda warning, the suspect must be in custody and they must be getting asked incriminating questions. If there is an imminent danger to the public, the warning may be skipped in order to address the danger.

In this case, if there are other terrorists out there working, or if there are bombs planted that have not been discovered, or where the firearms they used may be present an imminent danger to the people, so the Miranda warnings may be skipped to address those issues.

This is not an erosion to your rights.

It's like a fucking kindergarden Alex Jones class up in here............

His fucking rights are gifted to him not birthed so fuck him and the ship he floated in on......

Gifted rights?

No, brother. That's not how it works. Your rights are not granted by the government. We do not "gift" rights to anyone. They are natural rights. All humans have them. We spelled out what we think those rights are, but they're not the Governments to give. Because otherwise they'd be privileges.

For a motherfucking Refugee they are! You are confused my friend this country owes him jack shit we saved his bitch ass from his own fucked up country and you think he has natural rights here? Maybe in Chechnya

I find it incredibly amusing that in your prior post you called everyone ignorant.

But keep thumping your chest Sea Bass, maybe someone will be drunk enough to come along and agree with you.

Posted: 4/21/2013 3:33:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Since he is a naturalized citizen, what's to stop the government from stripping him of his citizenship and shipping his ass off to Gitmo for trial as an enemy combatant? Or from sending him back to Russia and letting Putin and the boys take care of him?

Posted: 4/21/2013 3:46:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

I have always known what the Miranda Rights act was by heresay but never really read it.

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse! So how do we even have this as a law?

But since it is a law, then he needs to have it read to him. Anything that scumbag says should be used against him just like it reads.

Now I see why 0 wants him not to not be advised of his rights.

Miranda Rights is something the Supreme Court made up and is in no part found anywhere within the Constitution.

Posted: 4/21/2013 3:48:42 PM EDT

[#24]

read him his rights then waterboard him

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:02:48 PM EDT

[#25]

Seems that those who have had their firearm rights 'infringed' howl about new/pending/proposed firearm proposals (both State and Federal) which began with little to no push back. Now with the 'war on terror' and various EO's and presently the horrible thing that happened in Boston, it seems to me (strictly my opinion) that if we strip one person of their rights, we might as well strip anyone we choose for whatever reason presents at the time. So much for the rule of law (which again, I believe) has pretty much died in our country.

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:15:52 PM EDT

[#26]

What rights are they stripping him of? No one has interrogated him yet, they aren't required to mirandize him as soon as they arrest him or detain him. Police agencies do it right at the beginning so they can make sure any statement you make can be used in court, but now if they did decide to start interrogate him without mirandizing him they can't use his statements against him in court. Again, what right is he being stripped of?

Quoted:

Seems that those who have had their firearm rights 'infringed' howl about new/pending/proposed firearm proposals (both State and Federal) which began with little to no push back. Now with the 'war on terror' and various EO's and presently the horrible thing that happened in Boston, it seems to me (strictly my opinion) that if we strip one person of their rights, we might as well strip anyone we choose for whatever reason presents at the time. So much for the rule of law (which again, I believe) has pretty much died in our country.

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:24:45 PM EDT

[#27]

They should and will Mirandize him when they are ready to question him. Who fucking cares if they haven't yet.

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:28:54 PM EDT

[#28]

Depends..

The US Attorney prosecuting him has a pretty good record for encouraging suicides...j/k

They should just try him first for killing his own brother.

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:32:09 PM EDT

[#29]

Since when can the FBI or anyone else basically over rule the U.S. Supreme Court?

Posted: 4/21/2013 4:58:50 PM EDT

[#30]

How have they overruled the Supreme Court? When is the FBI or the Justice Department required to mirandize the suspect? Be specific. What if they don't mirandize a suspect, or forget to? Do they have to let him go?

Quoted:

Since when can the FBI or anyone else basically over rule the U.S. Supreme Court?

Posted: 4/21/2013 5:16:10 PM EDT

[#31]

Not reading him his rights might make it easier to get information from him, as far as additional players, more bombs placed, etc. If he knows its not admissable, he may be more likely to speak, or write or whatever he's doing with missing throat parts.

What I'm not clear on is if this exception means his statements are admissable anyway.

Posted: 4/21/2013 5:22:03 PM EDT

[#32]

You don't have to read the Miranda warning unless your asking questions. From what I understand he isn't able to talk right now... Regardless, it's way above my pay grade! I'm sure they know what their doing.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do we care that Bomber #2 isn't being mirandized? NOW WITH POLL (Page 2 of 2)

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