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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#1]
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Why did you decide to announce you had a gun? Did you think that would dissuade him? (Not critical, just curious.) If you are on the phone with 911, your words will be recorded. If you are shouting commands and warnings, the the sound of an intruder entering is heard, followed by gunshots, it goes along way towards helping your case. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:21:39 PM EDT
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how much of your money did it cost to clean up the mess and for lawyer fees ? e.g. what was your cost for the event? $5K, posted above. In all fairness I didn't post mess cleanup cost. It cost me another $1000 as my homeowners deductible. Insurance covered the floor, door, and a couch he ruined. Work wise I didn't miss much and my work was very accomodating so it cost me nothing that way. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:23:11 PM EDT
[#3]
OP, I'm very interested in what you have to say but you should consider talking to your attorney about this thread. In most states there is a 2-year statute of limitations for wrongful death actions. This would be a civil suit unrelated to the DA's criminal investigation. I take you at your word that the criminal case is "closed," but that doesn't mean the guy's family couldn't still sue you.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:23:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Disgusting that people in your situation end up having to pay so much money to lawyers and such in a case of self defense.
Sorry for your misfortune, but I am glad you had what it takes to defend yourself. Good luck, hope you've found/find solace.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:23:49 PM EDT
[#5]
What, if anything, would you do differently?
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:24:53 PM EDT
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how much of your money did it cost to clean up the mess and for lawyer fees ? e.g. what was your cost for the event? $5K, posted above. you are correct. He didnt state how much to clean up.. I recall a thread where the cleanup ended up costing tens of thousands for the shooter, the house wasnt able to be used, etc.. Curious if there was a cleanup cost associated. 5k is still quite a bit for a victim of crime to have to pay. 
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:26:01 PM EDT
[#7]
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OP, I'm very interested in what you have to say but you should consider talking to your attorney about this thread. In most states there is a 2-year statute of limitations for wrongful death actions. This would be a civil suit unrelated to the DA's criminal investigation. I take you at your word that the criminal case is "closed," but that doesn't mean the guy's family couldn't still sue you. I will cover this one more time. Nothing I say here is different than what the courts already have. I am not revealing anything new. There is nothing else to reveal. They know more about the case than I likely do. If the mods think it is best that I close this down I will listen to their advice. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:26:53 PM EDT
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That is crazy. As strongly as I believe I would be able to mentally pull that trigger, I hope I never have to. Glad that you are okay; it is sad some stranger forced you to take his life. Not to sound macabre, but if you haven't answered it already, I too would be interested to know what type of round was used, e.g. Speer, Federal, Hornady, etc. Sounds like you pulled off some good shooting in the heat of the moment. I picked up my Sig and questioned whether I could do it. I even nervously ejected a round checking if I had one in the tube. The truth is when pushed we react, we don't think. I was using Hornady Critical Defense rounds. 12 round mag for those asking. This is why im a big proponent of DA only pistols with one in the chamber! When shit hits the fan the only thing you will be thinking about is pulling the trigger. Not chambering a round or releasing the safety. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:28:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for posting this OP. Most folks are really closed mouthed about an incident like this but it looks like you handled it by the book. Sorry you had to go through it though. I guess the only thing that would have been worse would be if you hadn't been armed and you'd wound up in the body bag. Thank god you're not in the UK.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:29:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: What, if anything, would you do differently? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:29:27 PM EDT
[#11]
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What, if anything, would you do differently? I don't think there is anything I could do differently besides not answer my door. The truth is I live in a small house with only 2 doors. The backyard doesn't have means to escape other than to run along the side to the front, where the threat was. He had also mentioned friends so I was taking the safest stand I could. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:30:09 PM EDT
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That is crazy. As strongly as I believe I would be able to mentally pull that trigger, I hope I never have to. Glad that you are okay; it is sad some stranger forced you to take his life. Not to sound macabre, but if you haven't answered it already, I too would be interested to know what type of round was used, e.g. Speer, Federal, Hornady, etc. Sounds like you pulled off some good shooting in the heat of the moment. I picked up my Sig and questioned whether I could do it. I even nervously ejected a round checking if I had one in the tube. The truth is when pushed we react, we don't think. I was using Hornady Critical Defense rounds. 12 round mag for those asking. This is why im a big proponent of DA only pistols with one in the chamber! When shit hits the fan the only thing you will be thinking about is pulling the trigger. Not chambering a round or releasing the safety. not to go off on a a side note, but I kinda know where he is coming from on double checking the gun is loaded. But yeah, less to mess with the better. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:31:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for posting this sobering reality of what is like to be involved in the terrible situation. Lots of gunho comments always get thrown about but I hope to never be in your shoes.
Do you continue shooting? Sounds like you were home alone, how have your family and friends handle it? OP sounds you still wrestle with demons but you can't blame yourself, you were put in an impossible situation, he was drunk and maybe you second guess how serious of a threat he was, but the reality is all it takes in one blow to your head and you would have been another murder statistic. You were in an incredibly dangerous situation, you gave ample warning and prayed for a different outcome, unfortunately it was not to be. But you did what you had to do and you survived. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:33:17 PM EDT
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:33:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Best wishes OP, I only hope it will pass with time,you did good.
thanks for the thread. I only hope not too many will have to deal with this scenario, but I am afraid it is coming sooner than any of us need , keep packing bro, you just never know. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:34:01 PM EDT
[#16]
OP, think if you had a big dog barking he would have went elsewhere?
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:34:39 PM EDT
[#17]
I continue to shoot, more than I used to actually. I would like to be able to get involved in some IDPA or other action shooting to improve myself but there isn't much nearby.
I had not practiced offhand shooting more than a joke before the incident. I feel it was more chance than anything that I hit him where I did. I actually grabbed the sig because it didn't have a safety, vs the 1911 in the bedstand next to it. I still don't like safeties and they have driven me to Glock :) |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks for sharing, OP. Sorry for all you've had to deal with.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:36:14 PM EDT
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? Why was I in shock or why did I ask for medical attention asap? 1. I had just shot a man in my living room... 2. A man was bleeding in my living room and making weird noises. I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:36:58 PM EDT
[#20]
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:37:09 PM EDT
[#21]
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In retrospect, is there anything you wish you had handled differently? This^^^ Good shoot |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:38:02 PM EDT
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? Uuhhmm... Because he was in a state of shock? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:39:38 PM EDT
[#23]
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I continue to shoot, more than I used to actually. I would like to be able to get involved in some IDPA or other action shooting to improve myself but there isn't much nearby. I had not practiced offhand shooting more than a joke before the incident. I feel it was more chance than anything that I hit him where I did. I actually grabbed the sig because it didn't have a safety, vs the 1911 in the bedstand next to it. I still don't like safeties and they have driven me to Glock :) Get involved with USPSA/IDPA/3gun. It's very fun and improves gun handling 1000%. Also it allows your mind to get away from the "tactical" part of guns and just enjoy the skill and competition. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:40:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Do you remember using sights or did you point and shoot?
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:40:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:40:31 PM EDT
[#26]
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? Your tone seems childish to me. I apologize but it comes off a bit confrontational. If you can't respect why this would bother me I'll ask you to leave please. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:40:39 PM EDT
[#27]
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? Why are you trolling? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:42:06 PM EDT
[#28]
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OP, I'm very interested in what you have to say but you should consider talking to your attorney about this thread. In most states there is a 2-year statute of limitations for wrongful death actions. This would be a civil suit unrelated to the DA's criminal investigation. I take you at your word that the criminal case is "closed," but that doesn't mean the guy's family couldn't still sue you. I will cover this one more time. Nothing I say here is different than what the courts already have. I am not revealing anything new. There is nothing else to reveal. They know more about the case than I likely do. If the mods think it is best that I close this down I will listen to their advice. Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your story. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:42:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:43:00 PM EDT
[#30]
GOOD SHOOT, OP.
Good guy - 1 Bad guy - 0 Sounds like you did the right thing once you figured out things had gone sideways. My question, is this (and I know you will ask yourself this for the rest of your life, perhaps) but were you ignoring danger signals as soon as you saw him at the sliding glass door the first time? Did you sense that something was odd or even suspicious about him before you even opened the door, but refused to listen to your "inner-voice" for fear of appearing "rude" etc? Have you read The Gift of Fear? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:43:58 PM EDT
[#31]
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what level is your skyrim character? Dunno, haven't played since that night. That's the biggest tragedy in the story. Must've taken an arrow to the knee. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:45:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: What, if anything, would you do differently? I don't think there is anything I could do differently besides not answer my door. The truth is I live in a small house with only 2 doors. The backyard doesn't have means to escape other than to run along the side to the front, where the threat was. He had also mentioned friends so I was taking the safest stand I could. I think I would have filed a civil suit against the mans family for the lawer fees and damages to your home. It isn't right HIS actions cost YOU money. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:45:48 PM EDT
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? When you watch a person die who you triggered (you didn't cause the death but you certainly are a factor) their death, it's pretty fucking personal. Good job OP. Best wishes. Glad to hear it all worked out for you. All homicides go to the DA/PA for review...even police officer line of duty shoots. The DA/PA makes the final call if it's a justified homicide or a murder. They will make the call but want to make sure that the call is the right one before exonerating you. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#34]
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? Normal people don't want to kill anyone. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:47:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Reading this story makes me thankful for two things in TN law.
1) Castle doctrine on steroids. 2) The family of the perp CAN NOT sue you in a civil court if it's a justifiable self defense shooting, in your home or on the street. Not all of our laws are great, but these two things are valuable. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:47:19 PM EDT
[#36]
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? Your tone seems childish to me. I apologize but it comes off a bit confrontational. If you can't respect why this would bother me I'll ask you to leave please. This is a discussion forum. You can choose not to answer my simple question. It goes towards your frame of mind, and I'm quite curious as why you would think like this. Everyone is different. If you don't wish to expound, just say so. Judging a tone from text is about as ridiculous as one can get. I offer no apologies, I'm just asking a question. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:48:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? Why are you trolling? If you cannot take a question then don't ask for them. I can ask a question and he can refuse to answer. Got to love freedoms us humans take for granted every day. If you feel the need to berate and not add anything to the thread, either ignore me or move on. 
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:49:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks for posting. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the info (I know I do). We can only hope none of us will have to go through that.
Only question I do have (I think some one else asked) did you have a lawyer on retainer, or how did you find one? And how did the police react when you stated you wanted an attorney. Thank you again. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:49:26 PM EDT
[#39]
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? because a lot of people are willing to kill to protect themselves, but hope they don't actually have too. can't blame him at all, i'd probably feel the same. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:50:27 PM EDT
[#40]
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Normal people don't want to kill anyone. This. Thanks for sharing OP, everyone here prepares to the best of their abilities, but the sane of us pray we never have to go through with what you did. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:50:57 PM EDT
[#41]
You mentioned you said to the dispatcher that he just kicked your door in. I take it you were still on the phone when you fired the 4 shots? What was the dispatchers response. I ask from a dispatchers perspective as I am wondering what there protocol is when they actively hear shooting during the phone call. Also, did you say to the dispatcher in the heat of the moment that you had just shot the man or was that obviously implied?
Also, of the 4 shots, you said one hit the head and 1 to the chest. You also said you were shooting one handed in the weak hand, where did the other 2 shots go? My biggest fear in a home defense situation is firing and missing the target and hitting something else. Did that turn out to be a problem in your case? |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:51:44 PM EDT
[#42]
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? Normal people don't want to kill anyone. That response is quite insightful. To follow up: Scott, is that what you personally believe or is that what society has taught you? I'd like the OP to answer this too if he so chooses.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:51:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: If you cannot take a question then don't ask for them. I can ask a question and he can refuse to answer. Got to love freedoms us humans take for granted every day. If you feel the need to berate and not add anything to the thread, either ignore me or move on. There is always one.  Taking another man's life would rank up there on my list of shitty things to have happen to me. Strange you can't see that. Oh, and *click* |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:53:01 PM EDT
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. I do not bring this forward lightly, it is the worst thing to ever happen to me. Why? Your tone seems childish to me. I apologize but it comes off a bit confrontational. If you can't respect why this would bother me I'll ask you to leave please. This is a discussion forum. You can choose not to answer my simple question. It goes towards your frame of mind, and I'm quite curious as why you would think like this. Everyone is different. If you don't wish to expound, just say so. Judging a tone from text is about as ridiculous as one can get. I offer no apologies, I'm just asking a question. Because that's how he felt. You cannot take away someone's feelings. It may not of been your intention and in fact I believe it wasn't but that doesn't mean he didn;t feel that way. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:53:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Hard thing to go through. My sympathies OP. It is a shame the DA left you hanging so long. Given the facts as you have presented them....that would not have happened here.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:53:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Thanks for sharing - this is why I also carry inside my house even though I live in a fairly nice neighborhood.
Glad you were able to take decisive action. I can understand how this could be the worst thing to have happen to you, I would hate to be put in the position to use deadly force... |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:53:25 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#48]
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? Normal people don't want to kill anyone. That response is quite insightful. To follow up: Scott, is that what you personally believe or is that what society has taught you? I'd like the OP to answer this too if he so chooses.I would think if someone was trying to gravely hurt me or my family (or any innocent, for that matter) I would kill them instantly. Then I would vomit, and feel horrible. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:54:58 PM EDT
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What was the first thing you said to the police? I was in a state of shock. I asked them to get medical attention for the man shot Why? I wanted him to live. Initially I believed he would. Again, why would you want him to live? The point is not to kill, it's to stop the threat. This. Break time. |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:56:42 PM EDT
[#50]
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Legal Fees: $5000 to a lawyer so I didn't have to be the frontman. I let him sort out what I needed to do, whom I needed to talk to, and how I could get evidence back. The Perp: he was apparently very drunk. no other motive. He was seen running around the neighborhood earlier that night and assaulted a man. He was not armed to the best of my knowledge. The wait: It sucked. I knew I was good but honestly it took them an additional 3 weeks to get me my guns back. I was not arrested, never taken into custody. The police were very nice and helpful. I had an officer spend 3 hours just talking with me so I didn't freak out. The police took ALL of my handguns as I did not have a safe at the time. I have suffered no retaliation. The scariest thing was the following day when all the lookey loos come out and drive through my cul de sac looking for the scene of the crime. Sickos Do you have reason to believe that would've been different if you had a safe? Did someone (police) tell you it would've? I've never thought about that... Weird. |
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