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Luvthemtorts
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Posted: 9/24/2012 1:57:14 AM
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!
dskeet
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Posted: 9/24/2012 1:59:02 AM
Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!


NY hometown forum is the place to get your answer.
tesla120
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:08:17 AM
Find a different ffl. MN has the same law and no one listens to it the threads are for flash suppressors and comps.

Either that or put a dab of solder on it. Then it wont come off
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:12:20 AM

Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!

No threaded barrels.

A muzzle brake is an acceptable muzzle device, but must be pinned or welded.

No flash hiders, no threads, no suppressors.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: Not necessarily to Win, but mainly to keep from Losing Completely. -HST
Luvthemtorts
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:16:59 AM
Gonzo,
Thanks for the confirmation. Unfortunately I was almost sure the FFL was correct but thought I'd double check.
As far as just dabbing some solder on it, my friend is LEO so it just isn't worth the potential for getting caught with a gun that does not comply with NY law.
scottedward58
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:18:22 AM
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!

No threaded barrels.

A muzzle brake is an acceptable muzzle device, but must be pinned or welded.

No flash hiders, no threads, no suppressors.


They can be soldered on too. If it was me since the barrel is so easy to remove I'd just sell him the barrelless gun through an FFL and ship him the barrel separately yourself. Let your friend figure out how he wants to "permanently" attach the thread protector or a brake. Silver solder is nice because it just takes a torch to fix if he ever moves to a freer state.
"I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away." letter to Uriah Forrest, 1787, T. Jefferson "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." Thomas Paine
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:30:41 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 2:34:57 AM by Evil_Ed]
Originally Posted By tesla120:
Find a different ffl. MN has the same law and no one listens to it the threads are for flash suppressors and comps.

Either that or put a dab of solder on it. Then it wont come off




The AWB expired. We don't have a law prohibiting that.


Edited to address original question - Yes, in NYS threaded barrels on guns that were made after September 1994 are illegal if the gun is in an "assault weapon"...i.e. if it accepts a detachable magazine it can only have I think 1 "evil feature", if I remember right...be it a flash hider, a pistol grip, a collapsing/folding buttstock, bayonet mount, threaded barrel, or grenade launcher. Any more than 1, and it's prohibited by the AWB law. (so you can have a pistol grip and a permanently affixed compensator...but not a flash hider.)
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tesla120
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:33:53 AM
Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Originally Posted By tesla120:
Find a different ffl. MN has the same law and no one listens to it the threads are for flash suppressors and comps.

Either that or put a dab of solder on it. Then it wont come off




The AWB expired. We don't have a law prohibiting that.


must be gun counter bullshit i have been fed.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:36:29 AM

Originally Posted By scottedward58:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!

No threaded barrels.

A muzzle brake is an acceptable muzzle device, but must be pinned or welded.

No flash hiders, no threads, no suppressors.


They can be soldered on too. If it was me since the barrel is so easy to remove I'd just sell him the barrelless gun through an FFL and ship him the barrel separately yourself. Let your friend figure out how he wants to "permanently" attach the thread protector or a brake. Silver solder is nice because it just takes a torch to fix if he ever moves to a freer state.

I've heard conflicting reports on silver solder being acceptable, including here in the HTF.

I wouldn't take any chances.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: Not necessarily to Win, but mainly to keep from Losing Completely. -HST
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:36:46 AM
Originally Posted By tesla120:
must be gun counter bullshit i have been fed.


Sadly

While MN's "permit to purchase" is a PITA...it could be worse. Hopefully that system goes away.

Now if only we could get our suppressor laws fixed...
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scottedward58
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:39:40 AM
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By scottedward58:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!

No threaded barrels.

A muzzle brake is an acceptable muzzle device, but must be pinned or welded.

No flash hiders, no threads, no suppressors.


They can be soldered on too. If it was me since the barrel is so easy to remove I'd just sell him the barrelless gun through an FFL and ship him the barrel separately yourself. Let your friend figure out how he wants to "permanently" attach the thread protector or a brake. Silver solder is nice because it just takes a torch to fix if he ever moves to a freer state.

I've heard conflicting reports on silver solder being acceptable, including here in the HTF.

I wouldn't take any chances.


Silver solder is used to meet federal restrictions, NY isn't worse than that. Not to mention gun manufactures use it and sell guns in NY. Regular solder won't be legal but silver solder is.
"I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away." letter to Uriah Forrest, 1787, T. Jefferson "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." Thomas Paine
Luvthemtorts
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:52:11 AM
Thanks again guys!
I don't think the idea of soldering it is going to be worth it. Being semi auto, having the ability to accept high capacity magazines, and the threaded barrel, just makes it more trouble to either of us than it's worth.
Darn shame about the laws they have up there. When I tell him stories about purchases and what's legal here in Va. the poor guy has a hard time grasping how nice it is to have more freedom and choices about new toys.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 2:53:41 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 2:55:46 AM by Gamma762]
AFAIK the NY state ban is a clone of the now-expired federal ban.

If that's the case, threaded muzzle is just one of the potential "evil features", of which you are (only) allowed one of on a rifle that has a detachable magazine.

As long as you have a standard type stock on the 10/22 and not something with a pistol grip or adjustable/telescoping feature, then it should be legal with the threaded muzzle. Could not add a flash suppressor to the threads as that would be an additional evil feature.

Folks are generally thinking of an AR type rifle which has a pistol grip which is the one allowable "evil feature", so then threaded muzzle is not allowed.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 3:25:20 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 3:34:10 AM by HKgnnr]
Cross posted to the NY forum....interesting question...and Gamma may be right on this one

As long as its in standard stock rifle configuration, aren't we technically allowed one additional evil feature - besides the detachable magazine?

Sure, you're going to have the threaded barrel... but that is only one additional evil feature to the semi auto/detachable mag definition....screw a compensator on it. Are we saying that's not legal with a basic stock 10/22?

If its not legal...why are postban AK's allowed in? One, being semi auto....two, having a detachable mag...and three - a pistol grip.

Its possible because the barrel isn't threaded.

From our own (NY) FAQs:

Q: What is a “semiautomatic assault weapon” (SAW)?
A: A SAW is a rifle, shotgun, or pistol manufactured after September 14, 1994 with certain “evil” features. See below for more information regarding the state law as it pertains to rifles, shotguns and pistols.

Rifles
To qualify as a SAW, a rifle must be semiautomatic (otherwise known as auto-loading) and must be able to accept a detachable magazine. A post-ban rifle that qualifies as a SAW must not have more than one “evil” feature. These “evil” features are as follows:

A pistol grip

A flash hider or a threaded barrel that can readily accept a flash hider or suppressor

A folding or telescoping stock

A bayonet lug

A grenade launcher
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Posted: 9/24/2012 3:39:38 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 3:40:40 AM by Evil_Ed]
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Sure, you're going to have the threaded barrel... but that is only one additional evil feature to the semi auto/detachable mag definition....screw a compensator on it. Are we saying that's not legal with a basic stock 10/22?


Correct, it is not legal, because of


A flash hider or a threaded barrel that can readily accept a flash hider or suppressor


If the thread is in left-handed 138/24-5/8ths Diagonals, then yes, it can be threaded provided there's no sound supressor or flash hider made for that thread pitch...this was why Romanian SAR-2's with the original Romanian front sight block could stay threaded and not have their brakes tack-welded on; the only thing that was ever made in it's thread pattern was the original Romanian AK74 brake for it, thus it was ok to leave threaded without something permanently affixed to it. Had someone made a flash hider in that unique thread, it would have basically ruined it for those of us who actually had one in NY.

Almost every other standard thread out there has a flash hider made in it though...if the only thing ever made for that thread was a compensator then it wouldn't be a problem.
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HKgnnr
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Posted: 9/24/2012 3:44:19 AM
Ahh, so the term "readily" is what the rub is....1/2 x 28 - comps AND flash suppressors threaded in that pitch.

Thanks Evil for clearing it up.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 4:02:23 AM
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Ahh, so the term "readily" is what the rub is....1/2 x 28 - comps AND flash suppressors threaded in that pitch.

Thanks Evil for clearing it up.


Yep, that's the bitch. It sucked at the time, and still sucks in NY today (I moved out of there in 2005, just before the AWB sunset everywhere else)

If the barrel were re-threaded in some weirdo pattern that no one's making anything for then it'd be fine...but then you're at the mercy of a vendor NOT making something for that market, and if/when they do you get screwed.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 4:02:36 AM
OP, some of the responses have pointed out that our dippy AWB law may not actually ban all rifles with threaded muzzles, but rather only such rifles that have both threaded muzzles and some other evil feature. A detachable box magazine as with the 10/22 may count, but the precise math escapes me.

Oddly, I don't think the law distinguishes between typical rifles and .22's, which is something that occasionally trips up people who want to buy high-cap 10/22 magazines.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:18:53 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 6:30:44 AM by HKgnnr]
Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Ahh, so the term "readily" is what the rub is....1/2 x 28 - comps AND flash suppressors threaded in that pitch.

Thanks Evil for clearing it up.


Yep, that's the bitch. It sucked at the time, and still sucks in NY today (I moved out of there in 2005, just before the AWB sunset everywhere else)

If the barrel were re-threaded in some weirdo pattern that no one's making anything for then it'd be fine...but then you're at the mercy of a vendor NOT making something for that market, and if/when they do you get screwed.


Okay, perhaps I've confused myself more....according to the "law"...this is legal in NY for a postban 10/22



...but this is not, with a comp and threaded barrel?



Gotta say....still not "seeing" the rational behind it...its "one" for "one" with regards to evil parts.

Just dug up some more info with Google Foo...standard Springfield M1A's are coming into NY with threaded barrels and flash suppressors/comps which are not pinned...because of the one additional "evil feature" allowed. No ones yet been prosecuted that I know of...but perhaps our day crew can shed a little more light.

If you don't want to wait...,ship him the receiver, ship me the barrel...and I'll meet him for a beer.

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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:30:20 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 6:32:21 AM by JBlitzen]
New York's weapon laws are very complex. Don't guess, ask in the hometown forum.

The high-capacity magazine ban is separate from the AWB. So although one of those pictures has a huge magazine, they both actually have detachable box magazines. One of those mags is probably illegal in NY if it wasn't manufactured before 1994; the other is probably legal. But the rifles themselves fall under a completely different set of rules. The pistol grip on the first rifle, added to the magazine, probably makes it an assault weapon. The threaded muzzle on the second rifle, added to the magazine, probably makes it an assault weapon. Both may be exempt if the receiver was manufactured before 1994.

My guess is that your friend can't buy your rifle unless you weld a brake in the correct manner. Possibly not even then.

ETA: I'm thinking of California, which counts the detachable magazine as one of the special things. NY actually doesn't, so it would take more work to figure out whether they're okay or not.

I live here, I own numerous ban-compliant magazines, and even I don't remember all the nuances.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:35:08 AM
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Ahh, so the term "readily" is what the rub is....1/2 x 28 - comps AND flash suppressors threaded in that pitch.

Thanks Evil for clearing it up.


Yep, that's the bitch. It sucked at the time, and still sucks in NY today (I moved out of there in 2005, just before the AWB sunset everywhere else)

If the barrel were re-threaded in some weirdo pattern that no one's making anything for then it'd be fine...but then you're at the mercy of a vendor NOT making something for that market, and if/when they do you get screwed.


Okay, perhaps I've confused myself more....according to the "law"...this is legal in NY for a postban 10/22

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/NDS-22_battlerifle.JPG

...but this is not, with a comp and threaded barrel?

http://www.eabco.com/CartImages/Ruger1022/AccBarrel08.gif

Gotta say....still not "seeing" the rational behind it...its "one" for "one" with regards to evil parts.

Just dug up some more info with Google Foo...standard Springfield M1A's are coming into NY with threaded barrels and flash suppressors/comps which are not pinned...because of the one additional "evil feature" allowed. No ones yet been prosecuted that I know of...but perhaps our day crew can shed a little more light.

If you don't want to wait...,ship him the receiver, ship me the barrel...and I'll meet him for a beer.



With all this I was assuming the rifle had a pistol grip...if it had a pistol grip then the comp would have to be welded on.

If it didn't have a pistol grip of any kind, then the threaded barrel would be fine, as it is one evil feature...

However, if it had a flash hider threaded on it, that flash hider would then need to be pinned/welded on or silver soldered on as the flash hider would be the one evil feature vs the threaded barrel; it would take the place of that threaded barrel.

I know, clear as mud
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HKgnnr
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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:39:27 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 6:44:44 AM by HKgnnr]
Yes, JB - correct...ignore the extended mag (pre or post)...just the fact that either rifle can accept a detachable mag and the rifles are semi - make them "assault weapons" by definition.

Beyond that is what becomes the question...we "should" be allowed one additional part...pick one, only one:

1)flash hider
2)threaded barrel (but only if you're putting a comp on it)
3)pistol grip
4)telescoping stock
5)bayonet lug

I think we're being given the "grey area" runaround.

**Thanks again Evil...I think we're all on the same page here...but daaaamn, how few words can cause so much confusion.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:39:40 AM
OP your gun is legal in NYS with a threaded barrel(any thread),as long as it doesn't have any of the other
"sigs" of an AW.

No pistol grip
No bayo lug
No folding stock
No GL


You can have one evil feature and be legal
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Posted: 9/24/2012 6:41:45 AM
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
New York's weapon laws are very complex. Don't guess, ask in the hometown forum.

The high-capacity magazine ban is separate from the AWB. So although one of those pictures has a huge magazine, they both actually have detachable box magazines. One of those mags is probably illegal in NY if it wasn't manufactured before 1994; the other is probably legal. But the rifles themselves fall under a completely different set of rules. The pistol grip on the first rifle, added to the magazine, probably makes it an assault weapon. The threaded muzzle on the second rifle, added to the magazine, probably makes it an assault weapon. Both may be exempt if the receiver was manufactured before 1994.

My guess is that your friend can't buy your rifle unless you weld a brake in the correct manner. Possibly not even then.

ETA: I'm thinking of California, which counts the detachable magazine as one of the special things. NY actually doesn't, so it would take more work to figure out whether they're okay or not.

I live here, I own numerous ban-compliant magazines, and even I don't remember all the nuances.


Er, the magazine ban itself is very very much in the AWB, very explicitly defined; magazines of > 10 round capacity made after September 13 1994 must be marked LEO-only and are not for sale to those who don't quality. Pistol, rifle, rimfire...if it's detachable and fits in an autoloader, it's banned if it can hold more than 10 rounds, or isn't permanently blocked to 10 rounds or less. The only exemption in the AWB and state law was a tubular magazine like on a lever action. NY has no other state-wide magazine bans; it's strictly in the AWB.

Yes, this also impacts belt-feds...the links must be dated, if they are manufactured after Sep 1994. Thank god pretty much all 1919 links are pre-ban

Hence why pre-ban mags are more expensive in NY and explicitly marketed to people there on the EE here, as are pre-ban BetaC's and such.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:40:18 AM
It seems as if its not obviously threaded it appears OK - GSG 1911, Walther P22, etc are all sold in NY with threaded barrels.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:44:54 AM
Originally Posted By PETman:
OP your gun is legal in NYS with a threaded barrel(any thread),as long as it doesn't have any of the other
"sigs" of an AW.


No pistol grip
No bayo lug
No folding stock
No GL


You can have one evil feature and be legal


This is the correct answer. There is a lot of wrong information in this thread OP, do your research.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:48:29 AM
Originally Posted By cherenkov:
It seems as if its not obviously threaded it appears OK - GSG 1911, Walther P22, etc are all sold in NY with threaded barrels.


Pistols are treated differently under NYS assault weapons ban. The reared bbl is the one allowed evil feature though...if the gun weighed more than 50oz then it would magically become a death ray and be illegal.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:51:42 AM
[Last Edit: 9/24/2012 8:53:24 AM by ropie]
Your LEO friend is exempt from the NY AWB. But with just a threaded barrel it is legal here anyway
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:53:04 AM
Originally Posted By tesla120:
Find a different ffl. MN has the same law and no one listens to it the threads are for flash suppressors and comps.

Either that or put a dab of solder on it. Then it wont come off


Don't listen to this guy
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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:54:26 AM
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By scottedward58:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Luvthemtorts:
I live in Va. And have a friend who lives in NY state who would like to buy my 10/22. It does have a .920 barrel with removable thread protector that accepts a flash hider or can. When I asked my FFL if transfer was legal he said it was not because of the removable cap and the cap would have to be pinned or welded in place to be remotely legal.
Can someone who lives in NY or is familiar with their state laws verify this? I would greatly appreciate any and all help!
Thanks in advance!

No threaded barrels.

A muzzle brake is an acceptable muzzle device, but must be pinned or welded.

No flash hiders, no threads, no suppressors.


They can be soldered on too. If it was me since the barrel is so easy to remove I'd just sell him the barrelless gun through an FFL and ship him the barrel separately yourself. Let your friend figure out how he wants to "permanently" attach the thread protector or a brake. Silver solder is nice because it just takes a torch to fix if he ever moves to a freer state.

I've heard conflicting reports on silver solder being acceptable, including here in the HTF.

I wouldn't take any chances.


It has to be 1100 degree

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Posted: 9/24/2012 8:55:32 AM
Originally Posted By HKgnnr:
Cross posted to the NY forum....interesting question...and Gamma may be right on this one

As long as its in standard stock rifle configuration, aren't we technically allowed one additional evil feature - besides the detachable magazine?

Sure, you're going to have the threaded barrel... but that is only one additional evil feature to the semi auto/detachable mag definition....screw a compensator on it. Are we saying that's not legal with a basic stock 10/22?

If its not legal...why are postban AK's allowed in? One, being semi auto....two, having a detachable mag...and three - a pistol grip.

Its possible because the barrel isn't threaded.

From our own (NY) FAQs:

Q: What is a “semiautomatic assault weapon” (SAW)?
A: A SAW is a rifle, shotgun, or pistol manufactured after September 14, 1994 with certain “evil” features. See below for more information regarding the state law as it pertains to rifles, shotguns and pistols.

Rifles
To qualify as a SAW, a rifle must be semiautomatic (otherwise known as auto-loading) and must be able to accept a detachable magazine. A post-ban rifle that qualifies as a SAW must not have more than one “evil” feature. These “evil” features are as follows:

A pistol grip

A flash hider or a threaded barrel that can readily accept a flash hider or suppressor

A folding or telescoping stock

A bayonet lug

A grenade launcher


This is the way I understand it. Having a threaded barrel with a flash hider is 1 feature, not 2.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:28:54 AM
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
AFAIK the NY state ban is a clone of the now-expired federal ban.

If that's the case, threaded muzzle is just one of the potential "evil features", of which you are (only) allowed one of on a rifle that has a detachable magazine.

As long as you have a standard type stock on the 10/22 and not something with a pistol grip or adjustable/telescoping feature, then it should be legal with the threaded muzzle. Could not add a flash suppressor to the threads as that would be an additional evil feature.

Folks are generally thinking of an AR type rifle which has a pistol grip which is the one allowable "evil feature", so then threaded muzzle is not allowed.


This is correct.

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Natty_Bumppo
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:46:10 AM
Can have a threaded barrel as long as there are no other 'evil features' such as retractable stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, etc.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:48:17 AM
Originally Posted By Natty_Bumppo:
Can have a threaded barrel as long as there are no other 'evil features' such as retractable stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, etc.


Listen to this guy he knows exactly what he is talking about
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Posted: 9/24/2012 10:03:53 AM
Wow there is some derp in this thread...

With a semi-auto rifle made after 1994 that accepts detachable magazines, you can have ONE "evil" feature.

Most of us with post ban ARs, that feature is the pistol grip that "protrudes conspicuously beneath the stock."

With a stock 10/22, there is no pistol grip, so a threaded barrel is FINE. Just don't put an EBR stock on it!
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