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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:20:55 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts.  LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:21:08 PM EDT
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This is why I support war games. There is always value in picking out data points. +1 Nobody claimed the F-22 was perfect at everything. But it's still the best fighter out there. Take this as a learning point, determine the correct counter-measures, and proceed with kicking ass. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:21:12 PM EDT
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Hope we don't go to war against Germany again...    
The French would kick their asses six ways to Sunday if they tried anything! The French? Is Zombie Napolean roaming around or something? Otherwise I still see them surrendering in less than a week. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:22:12 PM EDT
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Well that seems obvious to me. Is not the design of the F-22 to shoot down targets from afar, where they are almost invisible on radar but can see their opponents clearly? Getting close enough (visual range) engaging in a dogfight and firing off a heat seeker or guns seems like the logical way for a conventional fighter to defeat the F-22. I'm not trying to be smart here but does anyone know if American ROE have ever allowed for BVR engagement? I know in Vietnam they did not. Edit: Er, apparently beaten. If the only way you can detect me is with the MkI Mod 0 eyeball, that gives me a lot of options in how a visual range contact starts, even if the ROE does not allow BVR engagements. Good old fashioned boom and zoom in the 21st century. not to mention that some targeting pods, slaved to the radar can allow visual ID in BVR nowadays. I'd love to hear Taylor WSO tell us about the Sniper pod ;) in BVR engagements ;) |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:22:37 PM EDT
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Well that seems obvious to me. Is not the design of the F-22 to shoot down targets from afar, before they are picked up on radar? Getting close enough (visual range) engaging in a dogfight and firing off a heat seeker or guns seems like the logical way for a conventional fighter to defeat the F-22. But in real engagements the ROE might not allow for BVR fighting. So...they are dead. 
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:22:40 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? Apparently you don't interact with Canadians much. I do, and his behavior is typical for a lot of them. Think of it as "little man syndrome" on a large, country based scale. Terms like "America Jr" and "America's Hat" only fan the flames. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:23:05 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. Vietnam with shitty Falcon A2A missiles and century series proved only that the AF is retarded. Not that dog fighting happens in modern fights. Modern ineptness is to blame for dog fights. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:23:08 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? He's from Canada...that's why. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:23:47 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. You make it sound like its supposed to do something else. You fail to think strategically. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:23:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? Apparently you don't interact with Canadians much. I do, and his behavior is typical for a lot of them. Think of it as "little man syndrome" on a large, country based scale. Terms like "America Jr" and "America's Hat" only fan the flames. Really? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:24:58 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. You make it sound like its supposed to do something else. You fail to think strategically. failing to understand the F-22 role is like failing to understand the value of conceal carry in the general population ;) |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:25:28 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. You really don't know what you're talking about. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:27:08 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? Apparently you don't interact with Canadians much. I do, and his behavior is typical for a lot of them. Think of it as "little man syndrome" on a large, country based scale. Terms like "America Jr" and "America's Hat" only fan the flames. One of the only Canadians I met while in Windsor 6 years ago proceeded to spill her unwanted "knowledge" onto me about how superior their healthcare was. I didn't give a shit, all I wanted to do was buy her stuffed moose for my g/f. So I let her ramble on while trying to check out. She kept it up and I finally asked her why they all come to the US for advanced healthcare and you would have thought I slapped her baby. Fuckin nadians. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:27:14 PM EDT
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The Eurofighter has canards and a delta wing. It should be very maneuverable, but those canards and all the hardpoints on that aircraft also make it show up more on radar. Good luck to the Eurofighter finding the F-22. The F22 is supposed to be an aggressive interceptor - hardly fits the bill if it has to spend it's time hiding from the Eurofighter  Just because you guys are deaf, dumb, and blind in a fight doesn't mean we're hiding. Hey, if any nation with Eurofighters ever wants to go to war with us I'm not too worried about how quickly we'll stomp the crap out of them. Hey, Captain America.....Why don't you go and stand on a stage somewhere and beat your chest in a manly fashion before giving us an eyeful your shiny red, white and blue arse? Only I'm not quite sure that your blind raging patriotism is coming through strong enough 
Even if we were deaf, dumb and blind your F22 still got it's ass handed to it. And while I stand to be corrected, my understanding is that as soon as the F22 decides to switch on it's targeting and guidance system, it stands out like tits on a table. Besides, this isn't about us going to war with one another.... It's about testing capabilities, finding weaknesses and ensuring we plug those gaps in our capabilities as allies. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:27:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Was the weak spot the G-Suits?
Just saw an F-22 Turn 180º in about 1.5 lengths of itself at an airshow at a fairly high speed, The thrust vectoring can spin it around like a UFO. German has more manly pilots or what? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:28:43 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? He bashes everyone in equal measure. TargetTarget is an equal opportunities basher 
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:29:07 PM EDT
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This is why I support war games. There is always value in picking out data points. +1 Nobody claimed the F-22 was perfect at everything. But it's still the best fighter out there. Take this as a learning point, determine the correct counter-measures, and proceed with kicking ass. Exactly. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:29:31 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm still keeping an open mind regarding this highly volatile and emotionally charged issue.
From a purely unbiased observer's perspective (I'm in a very pragmatic mood today), it looks pretty well like the F-22 got its ass kicked. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:29:50 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? He bashes everyone in equal measure. TargetTarget is an equal opportunities basher
So he's mutually hated. Got it. Grin, you had a chance to end all this so I don't think you should be complaining...
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:31:34 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? So, what awesome Canadian fighters do you guys have? Oh wait, you have to buy ours since you can't/won't build your own and you buy a token amount to say you have an air force when deep down you rely on America to keep you protected. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:33:10 PM EDT
[#21]
I have a buddy who is a Navy Hornet pilot who has a HUD shot of him killing an F-22. He said it was misleading as the F-22 was forced into the fight. He said most of the time the F-22 stayed at their high altitude perch and only engaged when it was in the F-22s favor. He said the F-22 won every time until they put restrictions on the F-22 to come down and play not on thier terms.
In other words when you force an aircraft to play on equal terms sometimes the other aircraft will win as in the case with my buddy. Ryan |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Well it has "Euro" right in the name so of course its better.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:33:34 PM EDT
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Quoted: these playing around dog fights are just fighter pilot ego management. real war means BVR. WVR is a chance to play, which means its all they do. As much as I appreciate your constant dogging and acknowledge most of it, you really dont have a clue as to what we do WVR/BFM and how it applies to training. And you're wrong |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:34:03 PM EDT
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Was the weak spot the G-Suits? Just saw an F-22 Turn 180º in about 1.5 lengths of itself at an airshow at a fairly high speed, The thrust vectoring can spin it around like a UFO. German has more manly pilots or what? That would be really handy in a BVR engagement.
In answer to your question, I don't know the specifics of the tests that were carried out, only that there were no huge surprises given the manoeuvrability of the Typhoon in a close dogfight when the BVR advantage is lost. As has been said before though, you have to get close first and that's not going to be a walk in the park.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:34:29 PM EDT
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This is why I support war games. There is always value in picking out data points. +1 Nobody claimed the F-22 was perfect at everything. But it's still the best fighter out there. Take this as a learning point, determine the correct counter-measures, and proceed with kicking ass. Exactly. It's too bad you guys can't afford more Eurofighters. They are bad-ass. I keep wondering if Argentina will actually take on the Falklands. Would love to see some gun footage from the Tyfoons.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:34:31 PM EDT
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? He bashes everyone in equal measure. TargetTarget is an equal opportunities basher
So he's mutually hated. Got it. Grin, you had a chance to end all this so I don't think you should be complaining... I know. Fuck me, for showing mercy. I need to stop being such a nice guy. I'm in a foul mood tonight and the last thing I wanted to see was a Canadian bashing America on grounds he has -2000% merit to bash on. Canada uses a variation of the M16, F/A-18, M4, and several other US designs of aircraft and small arms. Why isn't he bashing his own country's shit? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:37:26 PM EDT
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Well that seems obvious to me. Is not the design of the F-22 to shoot down targets from afar, where they are almost invisible on radar but can see their opponents clearly? Getting close enough (visual range) engaging in a dogfight and firing off a heat seeker or guns seems like the logical way for a conventional fighter to defeat the F-22. You gotta "see it" before you can get close to it I was in an F-18 squadron and they flew against the 22's. At debrief my XO joked that he could "see" them on radar the whole time. His debrief lasted longer than the other pilots. Or so I was told
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:37:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Considering they dont even build their own fighters, but buy what we build..........
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:38:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: So, they're evenly matched in a dogfight when the US pilots are unfamiliar with the German Eurofighters. Big freakin deal. That extra money for the F-22 isn't for its vector thrust it's for its radar evasion, radar, and comms that all outmatch the Eurofighter. LOL, the US pilots weren't FLYING the fucking Eurofighters. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:39:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: pfft!!! What does that matter? F-22 isn't going to let you get in close enough for a gun fight. He's going to take you out well before he's in your visual range or visible on your radar. as soon as the F-22 turns on its radar to target its AMRAAMs, it becomes visible for the whole world to see. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:39:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:Both the F-22 and F-35 are fucking dogs.
Says the guy, with an avatar of the biggest dog out there! Quoted:You guy spend a shit load of money (F-22, F-35, amongst a slew of other programs), but don't really get anything for it.
Hah, now I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Quoted:Didn't we have some 20+ mile kills in Iraq 1?
Yes, there were BVR shots in DS1. Same thing in Bosnia. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:40:44 PM EDT
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these playing around dog fights are just fighter pilot ego management. real war means BVR. WVR is a chance to play, which means its all they do. As much as I appreciate your constant dogging and acknowledge most of it, you really dont have a clue as to what we do WVR/BFM and how it applies to training. And you're wrong Square me away. I see no reason for this WVR non sense other than when playing against little countries with 50 year old air planes. IN a real war reckon folks flying are ones looking for trouble. 100 NM missiles and never see them. As for this, this play time takes time to train. F22 pilots hardly get any hours because the planes are so fucking expensive to fly and they have been severely restricted in what they can fly. More hours, better pilots. but neutering the capabilities to make it fun errr, better training, doesn't indict the air craft, just the people in charge of it. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:40:56 PM EDT
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This is why I support war games. There is always value in picking out data points. +1 Nobody claimed the F-22 was perfect at everything. But it's still the best fighter out there. Take this as a learning point, determine the correct counter-measures, and proceed with kicking ass. Exactly. It's too bad you guys can't afford more Eurofighters. They are bad-ass. I keep wondering if Argentina will actually take on the Falklands. Would love to see some gun footage from the Tyfoons.
Yeah..... seen it flying a few times at Airshows where they played with the manoeuvrability. It was very impressive. Bigger than I thought as well. It really helped me get over the whole "Euro" prefix thing. Anything with Euro in front of it is usually full of fuck and despised accordingly...... but this was different. It will be interesting to see how the capabilities blend with the new carrier force we are building and with those of our allies. Interesting times for an amateur aviation enthusiast like me. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:41:37 PM EDT
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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/f-22-germans/ $361 million F-22 can not out-dogfight a €90 million Eurofighter. The fast, stealthy F-22 Raptor is “unquestionably” the best air-to-air fighter in the arsenal of the world’s leading air force. That’s what outgoing Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz wrote in 2009. Three years later, a contingent of German pilots flying their latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22, following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots. In mid-June, 150 German airmen and eight twin-engine, non-stealthy Typhoons arrived at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska for an American-led Red Flag exercise involving more than 100 aircraft from Germany, the U.S. Air Force and Army, NATO, Japan, Australia and Poland. Eight times during the two-week war game, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate a close-range dogfight. The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. “We were evenly matched,” Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft’s Jamie Hunter. The key, Gruene said, is to get as close as possible to the F-22 … and stay there. “They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.” Look on the bright side...... between us we have everyone licked. "US"? I bet the Germans laugh at a Brit saying that, no? Would be like Canadia saying "US" when talking about an American accomplishment, eh? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:42:49 PM EDT
[#35]
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pfft!!! What does that matter? F-22 isn't going to let you get in close enough for a gun fight. He's going to take you out well before he's in your visual range or visible on your radar. as soon as the F-22 turns on its radar to target its AMRAAMs, it becomes visible for the whole world to see. Turn on, Identify, engage, turn off, unass. Super Entenards did that in 1982. Just a question of missile stand off. ETA. And if the F22 isn't vectoring on someone elses radar, its just flying around hoping to bump into bad guys. something is vectoring it towards target, cue off that. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:43:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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Hope we don't go to war against Germany again...
The French would kick their asses six ways to Sunday if they tried anything! The French? Is Zombie Napolean roaming around or something? Otherwise I still see them surrendering in less than a week. The Krauts barely have a military. Their entire active duty force is 148,000 with another 355,000 active reserves. France has 362,000 active duty with another 419,000 active reserves. France has at LEAST twice as much of everything (tanks, ships, planes) as Germany. It doesn't matter that the Bundeswehr is completely emasculated and that they've sold off thousands of Leopard 2s. France is a nuclear power while Germany is not. If there is a serious threat of losing, Berlin and Munich among others are getting glassed. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:43:25 PM EDT
[#37]
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pfft!!! What does that matter? F-22 isn't going to let you get in close enough for a gun fight. He's going to take you out well before he's in your visual range or visible on your radar. as soon as the F-22 turns on its radar to target its AMRAAMs, it becomes visible for the whole world to see. .............fuck it 
JHMCS I am sure it has it Hornets do and they are "old"
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:45:49 PM EDT
[#38]
A certain persona non grata here was saying how the RAF pilots who went to Nellis were saying they "couldn't do anything against the F22, UNLESS thery wanted to come down and play with us".
So unbunch the panties guys, nothing can touch the F22 unless the pilot wants it too. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:46:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? And since when is telling the truth considered bashing? Your super-duper F-22 was evenly beat by a fighter that's 5 years older and 25% of the cost. That's not bashing, that's fucking fact. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:47:30 PM EDT
[#40]
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A certain persona non grata here was saying how the RAF pilots who went to Nellis were saying they "couldn't do anything against the F22, UNLESS thery wanted to come down and play with us". So unbunch the panties guys, nothing can touch the F22 unless the pilot wants it too. So out of curiosity, where does the F-35 stand against the Eurofighters and Rapters? Have they gone up against them yet or is it too soon? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:47:45 PM EDT
[#41]
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Hope we don't go to war against Germany again...
The French would kick their asses six ways to Sunday if they tried anything! The French? Is Zombie Napolean roaming around or something? Otherwise I still see them surrendering in less than a week. The Krauts barely have a military. Their entire active duty force is 148,000 with another 355,000 active reserves. France has 362,000 active duty with another 419,000 active reserves. France has at LEAST twice as much of everything (tanks, ships, planes) as Germany. It doesn't matter that the Bundeswehr is completely emasculated and that they've sold off thousands of Leopard 2s. France is a nuclear power while Germany is not. If there is a serious threat of losing, Berlin and Munich among others are getting glassed. Take a long hard look at who built the French nuclear deterent.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:48:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? Apparently you don't interact with Canadians much. I do, and his behavior is typical for a lot of them. Think of it as "little man syndrome" on a large, country based scale. Terms like "America Jr" and "America's Hat" only fan the flames. It's not "little man syndrome", but rather "easily-butt hurt American" syndrome. "OH NOEZ! This guy just said something factually mean to me" |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:48:33 PM EDT
[#43]
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pfft!!! What does that matter? F-22 isn't going to let you get in close enough for a gun fight. He's going to take you out well before he's in your visual range or visible on your radar. as soon as the F-22 turns on its radar to target its AMRAAMs, it becomes visible for the whole world to see. Well.. Maybe the F-22 that is at your 2 o,clock at 60nm..... But what about that other f-22 at 30nm at your 11 o'clock and who giving you the fox 3 on his wingman data linked target... You never knew about that guy, did you ? You are fucked... That's not even mentioning the targets that could be provided by that E-3 200nm away... Plus you can always Maddog one of your AMRAAMs for shit and giggles ;) |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:48:38 PM EDT
[#44]
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. You really don't know what you're talking about. Hey to be fair, he knows a lot about boiling guns, bagging milk and small penis syndrome
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Anyone realize that when this happened there were between 18 and 31 of these planes in service. August 2001 there was 8 F-22s, and 10 months later this excersize happened. My guess is the F-22 pilots were told to not push the limits on the new planes.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:49:16 PM EDT
[#46]
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Square me away. I see no reason for this WVR non sense other than when playing against little countries with 50 year old air planes. IN a real war reckon folks flying are ones looking for trouble. 100 NM missiles and never see them. As for this, this play time takes time to train. F22 pilots hardly get any hours because the planes are so fucking expensive to fly and they have been severely restricted in what they can fly. More hours, better pilots. but neutering the capabilities to make it fun errr, better training, doesn't indict the air craft, just the people in charge of it. The Nav actually has a point. BFM is a very integral skill set that is very important to maintain. Missiles don't always work, and ROE doesn't always allow BVR shots. You may be forced to go in and visually ID the aircraft. Trust me BFM, is not a d*ck measuring contests, it's a valuable skill. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:49:34 PM EDT
[#47]
So "evenly matched" means "ass kicked" now?
And why would you ever, ever dogfight with a gazillion dollar plane in a real conflict? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:50:16 PM EDT
[#48]
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Not to downplay the accomplishment, but won't the Eurofighter need to find the f22 first? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Tactic mentioned is common sense. Any bets on how fast we develop a counter-strategy? I am pretty sure these mock dogfights start at a common rendezvous point. That's not how a real shooting war works. So why the fancy schmancy school at Miramar? Dogfights occur - history should tell you that, mate. Even in modern conflicts. LOL, not for the magical F-22. It's been regulated to air show and college football game fly-by duty ever since it's been introduced. Why do you have to take every single motherfucking opportunity to bash anything American? Apparently you don't interact with Canadians much. I do, and his behavior is typical for a lot of them. Think of it as "little man syndrome" on a large, country based scale. Terms like "America Jr" and "America's Hat" only fan the flames. It's not "little man syndrome", but rather "easily-butt hurt American" syndrome. "OH NOEZ! This guy just said something factually mean to me" Now now, you keep talking like that and we'll have to send the whole country to it's room without any supper. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#49]
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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/f-22-germans/ $361 million F-22 can not out-dogfight a €90 million Eurofighter. The fast, stealthy F-22 Raptor is “unquestionably” the best air-to-air fighter in the arsenal of the world’s leading air force. That’s what outgoing Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz wrote in 2009. Three years later, a contingent of German pilots flying their latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22, following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots. In mid-June, 150 German airmen and eight twin-engine, non-stealthy Typhoons arrived at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska for an American-led Red Flag exercise involving more than 100 aircraft from Germany, the U.S. Air Force and Army, NATO, Japan, Australia and Poland. Eight times during the two-week war game, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate a close-range dogfight. The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. “We were evenly matched,” Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft’s Jamie Hunter. The key, Gruene said, is to get as close as possible to the F-22 … and stay there. “They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.” Look on the bright side...... between us we have everyone licked. "US"? I bet the Germans laugh at a Brit saying that, no? Would be like Canadia saying "US" when talking about an American accomplishment, eh? We have Typhoons and the last time I checked we were allies, yes? And if the Germans can do it, then think what the Brits can do. We have a 2:0 win record against the Germans, as demonstrated by the vast quantity of Luftwaffe wreckage at the bottom of the English Channel. |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:50:44 PM EDT
[#50]
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The Eurofighter has canards and a delta wing. It should be very maneuverable, but those canards and all the hardpoints on that aircraft also make it show up more on radar. Good luck to the Eurofighter finding the F-22. The F22 is supposed to be an aggressive interceptor - hardly fits the bill if it has to spend it's time hiding from the Eurofighter Just because you guys are deaf, dumb, and blind in a fight doesn't mean we're hiding. Hey, if any nation with Eurofighters ever wants to go to war with us I'm not too worried about how quickly we'll stomp the crap out of them. Hey, Captain America.....Why don't you go and stand on a stage somewhere and beat your chest in a manly fashion before giving us an eyeful your shiny red, white and blue arse? Only I'm not quite sure that your blind raging patriotism is coming through strong enough
Even if we were deaf, dumb and blind your F22 still got it's ass handed to it. And while I stand to be corrected, my understanding is that as soon as the F22 decides to switch on it's targeting and guidance system, it stands out like tits on a table. Besides, this isn't about us going to war with one another.... It's about testing capabilities, finding weaknesses and ensuring we plug those gaps in our capabilities as allies. Ouch...tell us how you really feel AF, this is usually kind of out of character for you....no? |
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