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Tanren37
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Posted: 7/19/2012 10:52:21 AM EST
Need some help from our arfcom aviators regarding the capabilities of a C-130.

Basically, is it possible to land a fully loaded C-130 here: Wainwright, Alaska

Highlights:
Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'
Elevation - 41'
Summer time operation so temps between 20-40 degrees average.

If so, how about take off, fully loaded?



psdavi01
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:02:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 11:03:05 AM EST by psdavi01]
C-130 can land and takeoff fully loaded on 3,000 ft of dirt...
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:05:28 AM EST
You know, I've been here for aqua-bumpers, shower cookies, goose fuckers, doll shows, fire on airplanes, and the attempted theft of an AR by Shitty McBritches, and this post is the one that's finally made me say, "This place is getting weird." -53
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:08:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 11:10:38 AM EST by DzlBenz]
Apparently, it's been done.


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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:08:38 AM EST
Pretty sure the entire cargo area was filled with the pilots balls, because it'd have to take a huge set of them to attempt that landing on a carrier.
Tanren37
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:10:43 AM EST
That's what I needed, thank you.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:11:16 AM EST
4500 feet should be more than enough room to take off and land.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:14:21 AM EST
I know herc's go into Nixon Forks Mine and their runway is 4200ft.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:14:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By marcmedic:
Pretty sure the entire cargo area was filled with the pilots balls, because it'd have to take a huge set of them to attempt that landing on a carrier.


The entire fuselage, fuel tanks, and any dead space inside the aircraft whatsoever was filled with the pilot's balls. Big titanium ones.

OP, they've landed them on carriers before. And wiki says it requires 3500ft of runway to take off at max weight. The runway is 1k feet longer than that. Consider that when you land you'll always be lighter than when you take off due to fuel burn... so, yes. C130 will do it.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:18:16 AM EST
Even a super T (look it up) could land on that. If it's hard packed gravel, with a bunch to spare as we reverse the props for a shit ton of breaking power on top of the 4 wheel brakes
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Tanren37
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:36:21 AM EST
Saw the wiki specs, but didn't know how much the surface type would effect overall length needed.
Brohawk
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:45:36 AM EST
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:53:46 AM EST
Don't try to do it in under 400 feet.

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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:56:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86



Runway not wide enough.


Originally Posted By Tanren37:Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'

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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:57:09 AM EST
I've been in and out of there with a Herk. Minimum runway length during peacetime is 3000 feet. The term Fully Loaded is somewhat misleading though. For "shorter" field operations they will fly with a smaller fuel load. In other words a lighter fuel load equals a larger cargo carrying capability. The type of runway, i.e. rocks, gravel, etc, may affect some things. RCR. This is the type place the Herk is ideal for.
Not a C-17 guy but I'm pretty sure it can operate out of many places the Herk can but not all.

My unit got to operate as Air Force One back during some campaigning for Bush 1 when he was running for re-election against Clinton. They were flying in and out of some smaller airfields in the north east.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 11:59:24 AM EST
It can do it. The pilot will know the specs of the airfield before they even take off. If they can't do it they wont.

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86



Runway not wide enough.


Originally Posted By Tanren37:Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'



I'm sure it will be fine
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:00:19 PM EST
JATO
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:02:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 12:05:27 PM EST by LooneyTwin]
What he said... JATO!!!

What model? Possible "J" model or older style? I think the game changes a lil' bit.

4,400 is plenty, dunno when they hit V1 but its well before that.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:03:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By 2A373:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86



Runway not wide enough.


Originally Posted By Tanren37:Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'



It will be after the landing.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:04:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:
Don't try to do it in under 400 feet.

http://youtu.be/WKCl3lfAx1Q

Holy fuck! I've never seen that attempt!
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:10:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdm:
JATO



IIRC the Israelis got a couple off the ground in some Godawful short field ake off while leaving the scene of the Entebbe raid back in the 70s.

I read the angle of attack was estimated at 45 degrees!

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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:12:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By piccolo:
Originally Posted By pdm:
JATO

IIRC the Israelis got a couple off the ground in some Godawful short field ake off while leaving the scene of the Entebbe raid back in the 70s.

I read the angle of attack was estimated at 45 degrees!

Like a homesick angel!

I thought they'd discontinued the JATO?
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:13:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Originally Posted By piccolo:
Originally Posted By pdm:
JATO

IIRC the Israelis got a couple off the ground in some Godawful short field ake off while leaving the scene of the Entebbe raid back in the 70s.

I read the angle of attack was estimated at 45 degrees!

Like a homesick angel!

I thought they'd discontinued the JATO?


RTFP

Israel. 1970s.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:16:45 PM EST
Don't land in places where takeoff might not be possible. That has happened more than one time.

There's more to the problem than just runway length. Altitude, temperature, surface condition, weight, and obstacle height also matter. That 4500 foot long runway won't look so long if there's a mountain at the departure end.

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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:20:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By piccolo:
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:
Originally Posted By piccolo:
Originally Posted By pdm:
JATO

IIRC the Israelis got a couple off the ground in some Godawful short field ake off while leaving the scene of the Entebbe raid back in the 70s.

I read the angle of attack was estimated at 45 degrees!

Like a homesick angel!

I thought they'd discontinued the JATO?

RTFP

Israel. 1970s.

Calm yourself Beavis. pdm mentioned JATO and you were closest to the bottom so that's why you got quoted too.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:26:14 PM EST
But... Didn't JATO limit the life of the airframe? Theres a "Fat Albert" 130 sitting outside of Pensacola NAS museum hangar that hit like 30 JATO T/O's and was de-com'd
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:26:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By LooneyTwin:
What he said... JATO!!!

What model? Possible "J" model or older style? I think the game changes a lil' bit.

4,400 is plenty, dunno when they hit V1 but its well before that.


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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:37:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Originally Posted By 2A373:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86



Runway not wide enough.


Originally Posted By Tanren37:Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'



It will be after the landing.


Actually it is wide enough right now. The OP posted an incorrect width.

Dimensions: 4494 ft. x 90 ft.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/airportLookup/airportDisplay.jsp?airportId=AWI
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:42:17 PM EST
yes
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:53:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Originally Posted By 2A373:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Cute airplane. Why not go big?


The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters).


http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86



Runway not wide enough.


Originally Posted By Tanren37:Gravel surface - 4,490'x80'



It will be after the landing.


Actually it is wide enough right now. The OP posted an incorrect width.

Dimensions: 4494 ft. x 90 ft.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/airportLookup/airportDisplay.jsp?airportId=AWI


Doesn't the C-17 have a very heavy weight displacement for its footprint, therefore limiting what tarmac/runway can support it?
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Posted: 7/19/2012 2:05:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:

Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:
Don't try to do it in under 400 feet.

http://youtu.be/WKCl3lfAx1Q

Holy fuck! I've never seen that attempt!


Credible Sport, one of the two airframes is still on display at Hurlburt Fld.
Designed to land and take off within the confines of a soccer stadium,
The planes had taken off and landed hundreds of times under manual control.
this one was under the control of the rudimentary computer and it fired the braking thrusters too early and the landing thrusters too late.

The plan was to have Delta on board, and land them in the stadium with a small ranger contingent to hold the stadium
Delta would ditibop across the road to the embassy and free the hostages and bring them back to the stadium and everyone would load up on these birds and BLAST off into the night. While an AC-130 provided covering fire.
Audacious plan...
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Posted: 7/19/2012 2:36:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 2:38:44 PM EST by FrenchKat]
Disregard, I thought you were talking about Ft. Wainwright in Fairbanks.


Wainright used to be Ladd AFB. Had C-54s, B-29s, C-124s.

Plenty big enough.

I've been in and out dirt assualt strips at Bragg and Richardson.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 2:40:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Don't try to do it in under 400 feet.

http://youtu.be/WKCl3lfAx1Q

Holy fuck! I've never seen that attempt!

Credible Sport, one of the two airframes is still on display at Hurlburt Fld.
Designed to land and take off within the confines of a soccer stadium,
The planes had taken off and landed hundreds of times under manual control.
this one was under the control of the rudimentary computer and it fired the braking thrusters too early and the landing thrusters too late.

The plan was to have Delta on board, and land them in the stadium with a small ranger contingent to hold the stadium
Delta would ditibop across the road to the embassy and free the hostages and bring them back to the stadium and everyone would load up on these birds and BLAST off into the night. While an AC-130 provided covering fire.
Audacious plan...

Visualizing that landing with a couple spookies in the air above made me moist.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 2:45:23 PM EST
In 1968 my unit was set up beside the airstrip at Tam Ky. I was amazed at how short a distance the C130 could land in and take off in.

Air America was landing some kind of DeHavilands there also and they used even less. There was some pretty exotic looking individuals getting off those planes.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 3:44:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Don't try to do it in under 400 feet.

http://youtu.be/WKCl3lfAx1Q

Holy fuck! I've never seen that attempt!

Credible Sport, one of the two airframes is still on display at Hurlburt Fld.
Designed to land and take off within the confines of a soccer stadium,
The planes had taken off and landed hundreds of times under manual control.
this one was under the control of the rudimentary computer and it fired the braking thrusters too early and the landing thrusters too late.

The plan was to have Delta on board, and land them in the stadium with a small ranger contingent to hold the stadium
Delta would ditibop across the road to the embassy and free the hostages and bring them back to the stadium and everyone would load up on these birds and BLAST off into the night. While an AC-130 provided covering fire.
Audacious plan...

Visualizing that landing with a couple spookies in the air above made me moist.



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