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Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:40:47 PM EDT
Bottom line. There is no way that any private insurance company can except anybody, anytime with any condition and survive. More and more people will pay the fine and get insurance when they get sick. The federal government will have to set up a single-payer system. That is exactly what the liberals wanted from the start. –– We will see the totally controlled US health care system, with the required much higher taxes, within 4 years if Obama-Care is not repealed.

With the government controlled system, the number of doctors will decrease, the number of hospitals will decrease, it'll take 6 months to schedule a MRI, CAT scan, etc. All because government will try to control cost by paying less!
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:42:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kutu:
Bottom line. There is no way that any private insurance company can except anybody, anytime with any condition and survive. More and more people will pay the fine and get insurance when they get sick. The federal government will have to set up a single-payer system. That is exactly what the liberals wanted from the start. –– We will see the totally controlled US health care system, with the required much higher taxes, within 4 years if Obama-Care is not repealed.

With the government controlled system, the number of doctors will decrease, the number of hospitals will decrease, it'll take 6 months to schedule a MRI, CAT scan, etc. All because government will try to control cost by paying less!

Well said.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:42:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:46:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By usptac:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By usptac:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By usptac:
I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer.


Are you serious?



Whoa, there are like, more words around what you highlighted. They do things like put the highlighted phrase in context. Crazy concept, that reading and writing thing.

The context is perfectly fine. You stated that you don't understand why the left praised it when it makes their base poorer, right? I, again, ask you are you surprised that the left supported a law that would hurt it's own base?


Typically they increase the subsidies to their base. If there was no "insurance" that you automatically opted into by paying the "fine," it would be a blatant slap in the faces of their base. I know their base is full of fucking retards, but even this insult would be plain enough for them to understand.
Do you not get who these people are? They are not do-good'ers. They want people restrained by government, keeping people in despair is what they do, it's what they believe.



I know exactly who these people are. The process of destabilization has not been completed yet. They are going to potentially lose votes.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:48:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.


Not yet. But there will be if 0 stays in office.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:52:07 PM EDT
IIRC, Obamacare authorizes a shit ton more IRS agents and Remington 870 shotguns too.

Why do you need armed IRS agents for healthcare?
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:53:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.


Not yet. But there will be if 0 stays in office.


I have no doubt he would if he could, but he'd need the House and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. There is no chance of that.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:53:53 PM EDT
If you are employed, and your employer drops coverage, do you get fined as well as them? If your employer pays the fine, are you covered? I can see the IRS going for both.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 12:58:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BIKECOP29:
IIRC, Obamacare authorizes a shit ton more IRS agents and Remington 870 shotguns too.

Why do you need armed IRS agents for healthcare?


Weren't they SBS's too?
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:05:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four...

So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance.



I'll be interested to see if they're gonna tax tribal members, because The 5 Civilized Tribes have no quantum requirements whatsoever. You can be 1/1,000th% Choctaw and get free gubmint healthcare as long as your great-great-great-great's were on the Dawes Roll. This will effectively elimintate the entire state of Oklahoma from paying the tax if that is so.


So if I go on ancestry.com, and show that some distant relative was a injun, I get free gubment cheese for the rest of my life? Wtf?

Cpt. Redleg
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:09:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four...

So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance.



I'll be interested to see if they're gonna tax tribal members, because The 5 Civilized Tribes have no quantum requirements whatsoever. You can be 1/1,000th% Choctaw and get free gubmint healthcare as long as your great-great-great-great's were on the Dawes Roll. This will effectively elimintate the entire state of Oklahoma from paying the tax if that is so.



It's 400%. There are different levels of subsidy. The really low will get more, anyone under 400% will get some form of handout to buy insurance.

A family of 4 making 90,000 a year will now be on the government tit. Democrat vote buying is awesome.

RIP America.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:13:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony:

You got me, brother. I wish I knew...



SN has no brother parts
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:15:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right?


Already do.....
No one goes without health care.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:17:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.

You mean other than expanding the fuck out of Medicaid eligibility, right?
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:24:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.

You mean other than expanding the fuck out of Medicaid eligibility, right?


Yes, other than that. But unless you're pretty damned poor already, that's not available generally.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:28:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.

You mean other than expanding the fuck out of Medicaid eligibility, right?


Yes, other than that. But unless you're pretty damned poor already, that's not available generally.

Well, at the low-end you get Medicaid, but then the .gov is subsidizing private plans through Peoples Collectives or Exchanges or whatever term they are using for quite a large swath of people.

When you add .gov subsidies to the laws demanding what the 'private' insurers must do, well, seems like defacto .gov health care, just with a few kinks to work out as they kill private insurers off.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:30:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.


Not yet. But there will be if 0 stays in office.


I have no doubt he would if he could, but he'd need the House and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. There is no chance of that.



It'll come. Give it 5-10 years.

Even if it doesn't ... the end game of the current system is:


small insurance companies go out of business
giant insurance companies act as basically TPAs for the government.
growth of population covered by government programs like medicare, medicaid, vets, fed employees, etc.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:31:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KingRat:
If you are employed, and your employer drops coverage, do you get fined as well as them? If your employer pays the fine, are you covered? I can see the IRS going for both.


if you don't prove that you've obtained qualified coverage on your own, then yes you get "taxed".

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:33:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government.


Once more, there is no plan provided by the government. There is only a government exchange of private plans.

You mean other than expanding the fuck out of Medicaid eligibility, right?


Yes, other than that. But unless you're pretty damned poor already, that's not available generally.

Well, at the low-end you get Medicaid, but then the .gov is subsidizing private plans through Peoples Collectives or Exchanges or whatever term they are using for quite a large swath of people.

When you add .gov subsidies to the laws demanding what the 'private' insurers must do, well, seems like defacto .gov health care, just with a few kinks to work out as they kill private insurers off.


that's basically it.

insurers will still exist, but they're soon to be basically administrators for government run healthcare.

the feds tell them:

1. what they can sell
2. who they must sell it to
3. how much they can charge
4. how much profit they can make

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:35:15 PM EDT
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dog-meat:

...the feds tell them:

1. what they can sell
2. who they must sell it to
3. how much they can charge
4. how much profit they can make


I guarantee this is just the first of many industries the .gov will be doing it to. The .gov has, over recent years, found out that it can do ANYTHING it wants. Anything.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:37:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!


Handy Obamacare Tax Calculator
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:42:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 1:44:27 PM EDT by dog-meat]
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!


to start with, the tax is far less than even a month worth of insurance premium.


Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following
schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014,
2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after 2016, the penalty
will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for financial
hardship, religious objections, American Indians, those without coverage for less than three months,
undocumented immigrants, incarcerated individuals, those for whom the lowest cost plan option
exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009
the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples).
gotta love those equally applied taxes. how long until democrats are added to that exemption list.


If I didn't have employer coverage I'd probably buy a cheap fixed benefit type of plan that covers a few basics and the first bit of a hospital stay. Those plans are not considered insurance under the ACA and so are still available. combine one of those with a plan to 1) go uninsured, 2) pay the tax, 3) apply for real coverage immediately upon serious illness. You'd probably come out ahead.

Supposedly the HHS department and states will be setting up open enrollment periods where you can only buy into a plan at a certain time of year or on certain life events (married, have a kid, lose a job, etc.). If they put that in place it will help prevent the above behavior to some extent.



Link Posted: 7/1/2012 1:53:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SplintNicket:
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!


Handy Obamacare Tax Calculator


$390-$520 until 2014 when it jumps to $700.

Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:26:45 PM EDT
I don't think it will take a super-majority (60) in the Senate to repeal Obama-Care. Obama Care is a tax issue now so as a revenue issue it should only take 51 do repeal it. ––Of course I only have the understanding of law and the Constitution as Obama, so I might be wrong.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:35:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Originally Posted By Ibidem:
Originally Posted By Dragracer:


But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point?



No private practice doctor will be required to see you.




No, but by current law any hospital ER would be required to treat stabilize you.


Fixed it.

buckmeister
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:43:22 PM EDT
health insurance will cease to exist in 2015
Cheap penaltys, MANDATORY COVERAGE OF PRE_EXISTING CONDITIONS.. =0 healthy people with insurance, 100% sick people with it. Costs will approach infinity and revenues 0
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 7:54:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
health insurance will cease to exist in 2015
Cheap penaltys, MANDATORY COVERAGE OF PRE_EXISTING CONDITIONS.. =0 healthy people with insurance, 100% sick people with it. Costs will approach infinity and revenues 0


Ummm.... I'm not gonna dump my health unsurance becuase the penalty is low. The penality right now is ZERO, and I still have insurnace. Why? Becuase I don;t wanna go bankrupt if I have need of a lot of care for me or my family.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 8:07:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
health insurance will cease to exist in 2015
Cheap penaltys, MANDATORY COVERAGE OF PRE_EXISTING CONDITIONS.. =0 healthy people with insurance, 100% sick people with it. Costs will approach infinity and revenues 0


Ummm.... I'm not gonna dump my health unsurance becuase the penalty is low. The penality right now is ZERO, and I still have insurnace. Why? Becuase I don;t wanna go bankrupt if I have need of a lot of care for me or my family.


yes, and that is because currently you cannot pick up insurance after you are already sick. This bill requires companies to cover youe ven if you dont sign up till sick.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 9:01:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four...

So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance.



I'll be interested to see if they're gonna tax tribal members, because The 5 Civilized Tribes have no quantum requirements whatsoever. You can be 1/1,000th% Choctaw and get free gubmint healthcare as long as your great-great-great-great's were on the Dawes Roll. This will effectively elimintate the entire state of Oklahoma from paying the tax if that is so.

while that doesnt see right for sure, neither does obamacare at all. Glad I AM Choctaw
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 9:25:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
health insurance will cease to exist in 2015
Cheap penaltys, MANDATORY COVERAGE OF PRE_EXISTING CONDITIONS.. =0 healthy people with insurance, 100% sick people with it. Costs will approach infinity and revenues 0


Ummm.... I'm not gonna dump my health unsurance becuase the penalty is low. The penality right now is ZERO, and I still have insurnace. Why? Becuase I don;t wanna go bankrupt if I have need of a lot of care for me or my family.


yes, and that is because currently you cannot pick up insurance after you are already sick. This bill requires companies to cover youe ven if you dont sign up till sick.


The penalty is your rising premiums. I drop my coverage until i need it... and then buy a "Cadillac plan" 5 minutes
Prior to going to the docs office.
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 10:08:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2012 10:09:48 PM EDT by DuBri]
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
From what I read the penalty is 2% of your income with a $960 minimum. If you can't find insurance for less than 8% of your income you do not have to pay the penalty. I have no idea what the coverage requirements are though. Can the insurance give you a million dollar deductible with a $200 monthly premium and if you don't buy it you have to pay the penalty?


That sounds a lot like extortion... and I don't doubt that will be the case at some point on the road to single payer.

I am in pretty good health but single payer scares the shit out of me. Everyone(no matter how much you make) gets a chunk of their paycheck taken out to participate in 'uncle sam health insurance co.' No healthcare of your choosing available for purchase for any amount of money(save for traveling abroad). Think DMV employees deciding best course of treatment
Link Posted: 7/1/2012 10:14:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dog-meat:
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!


to start with, the tax is far less than even a month worth of insurance premium.


Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following
schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014,
2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after 2016, the penalty
will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for financial
hardship, religious objections, American Indians, those without coverage for less than three months,
undocumented immigrants, incarcerated individuals, those for whom the lowest cost plan option
exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009
the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples).
gotta love those equally applied taxes. how long until democrats are added to that exemption list.


If I didn't have employer coverage I'd probably buy a cheap fixed benefit type of plan that covers a few basics and the first bit of a hospital stay. Those plans are not considered insurance under the ACA and so are still available. combine one of those with a plan to 1) go uninsured, 2) pay the tax, 3) apply for real coverage immediately upon serious illness. You'd probably come out ahead.

Supposedly the HHS department and states will be setting up open enrollment periods where you can only buy into a plan at a certain time of year or on certain life events (married, have a kid, lose a job, etc.). If they put that in place it will help prevent the above behavior to some extent.




LOL so a couple making 20k a year has to pay a 8% penalty if they chose to go without coverage.... That's a brutal fucking hit to the wallet.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 2:35:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By camaro128:
What I am concerned about is the cost of premiums. I assume they are not going to limit the premiums that the insurance companies charge. This has me worried. I can imagine increases of 200% or more.

Someone please tell me I am wrong


camaro


Our insurance provider has already sent out a statement that we can expect to pay at least double starting soon, and our policy provided by the company is already complete bullshit for what we pay. It covers you up to $4000 and then you're on your own with the rest. I found that out last year with a couple trips to the ER, when I got a $7000 and $3000 bill respectively and was told I had gone over the limit of my insurance ($4000 for the year) with the FIRST ER visit.

I looked into private insurance through BCBS, Aetna, etc. I am disqualified because of a surgery that BCBS APPROVED AND PAID FOR four years ago before I left a previous job and no longer had a policy with them. They paid for it, and now they will not provide me a private policy as a result - treating it as a pre-existing condition when applying for a new policy with them.

My regular doctor is already planning to close her practice.

Shit sucks. It's going to be cheaper for me to just drop my insurance and pay the penalty.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 3:56:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

The people who don't pay now won't pay in the future. Those of us who do pay will pay more.


this answer took a while......
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 4:44:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redleg13a:
There are a lot less people in OK who are part Indian than most people realize. Not everyone who lives there is Indian.


This! X1
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 4:51:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


Right. My employer pays far more than $2k for my health coverage.


Why? If your employer only wants to save money, why is he even paying for health insurance now?
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 4:56:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 4:59:18 AM EDT by RDak]
Originally Posted By FreeFloater:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.

Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year.

More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens.

This is going to get very interesting going forward.


Right. My employer pays far more than $2k for my health coverage.


Why? If your employer only wants to save money, why is he even paying for health insurance now?


Not sure about all the current details but employers get a tax credit plus a deduction for employees' health insurance costs.

Not sure if this is for all companies any longer though.

So, instead of increasing wages in their contracts with employees or payment structure where they only get a deduction, they use that money to buy health insurance for their employees and get a deduction PLUS a tax credit.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 4:58:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasDoubleTap:

Originally Posted By dog-meat:
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THE TAX IS FOR THOSE OF US WITHOUT INSURANCE???!!!


to start with, the tax is far less than even a month worth of insurance premium.


Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following
schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014,
2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after 2016, the penalty
will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for financial
hardship, religious objections, American Indians, those without coverage for less than three months,
undocumented immigrants, incarcerated individuals, those for whom the lowest cost plan option
exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009
the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples).
gotta love those equally applied taxes. how long until democrats are added to that exemption list.


If I didn't have employer coverage I'd probably buy a cheap fixed benefit type of plan that covers a few basics and the first bit of a hospital stay. Those plans are not considered insurance under the ACA and so are still available. combine one of those with a plan to 1) go uninsured, 2) pay the tax, 3) apply for real coverage immediately upon serious illness. You'd probably come out ahead.

Supposedly the HHS department and states will be setting up open enrollment periods where you can only buy into a plan at a certain time of year or on certain life events (married, have a kid, lose a job, etc.). If they put that in place it will help prevent the above behavior to some extent.




LOL so a couple making 20k a year has to pay a 8% penalty if they chose to go without coverage.... That's a brutal fucking hit to the wallet.


A couple making 20k a year won't have any trouble getting coverage. They will be getting essentially free insurance via the subsidies for low income folks built into the law.


Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:04:57 AM EDT
We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan that we're forced to purchase and fined if we don't which purportedly covers at least 10 million more people without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a Dumbo president that smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted social security and medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:06:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDak:

America has too many stupid, unrealistic people who fail to recognize that Obamacare will further bankrupt the country, reduce healthcare quality and generally advance the largest clusterfuck statute in American history.


This is pretty much the conclusion I've reached. And of course there will be everyone and everything else to blame - except for the statute itself, when things start going to shit. One potential bright point is that once this thing starts totally screwing over journalists and their families, the truth might actually start to come out.




Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:08:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redleg13a:
There are a lot less people in OK who are part Indian than most people realize. Not everyone who lives there is Indian.




As far as I can prove, I have no Indian blood. I have some cousins that claim that out mutual great great grandfather was half Blackfoot, but I can't prove a thing.

My half brothers are 1/4 Chickasaw, and my girlfriend is most likely part Chickasaw too.

I've heard a lot of rumbling from some of my friends that are doctors and surgeons. Some my no longer practice.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:26:16 AM EDT
You may be able to keep your doctor, but your doctor may not be able to afford to keep you.

The day the Supreme court decision was announced I decided we will stop taking all Government forms of insurance in my office. ( I make exeptions for Vets for now)
We will be looking very closely from now on at what insurance each patient has and whether we can afford to treat them or not. Our time and work has a certain value, and if you can't or won't pay for your service, you don't get to just demand it.
Show up with your "Obamacare-Advantage-Card" wanting your free-immediate-painless care with an unlimited supply of Percocets ? (I'm not kidding, there are people exactly like this)... "too bad, we don't take that anymore, try the clinic with the huge line and no air-conditioning across the street, but you might want to bring a lunch, the wait can be a tad long...."

The level of stupid in our society is mind-numbing right now.
I was talking to my friend who is an E.R. Doc who told me about some fine use of 911 services and hospital emergency departments. All these people called 911 and were transported and treated emergently in a hospital:
1. A lady who got hand lotion in her eye. ........the day before calling 911.....
2. A person who got stung by a bee.......5 days prior to calling 911, but who saw a tv show that said you can die from a bee sting if you have an allergic reaction.
3. A lady who got a bar of soap stuck "down south". It was her second E.R. visit that year for the same issue. E.R doc recommended "Soap-on-a-rope" in her discharge instructions....

I'm sure this will only get more interesting as time progresses....
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:44:37 AM EDT
Not to be a complete idiot here (probably am says my SO), but since the law has been passed, now you can read the law (thanks Nancy P.). Bottom line is that you will be forced to obtain insurance 'or else' - to that end, sorry sucker but you lost whatever small amount of freedom and liberty may have existed in this country. That there is no national outcry and revolt sickens me ....................
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:57:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right?


Wrong.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:58:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cornholio123:
Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right?


Wrong.


I think he was being sarcastic.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 5:59:27 AM EDT
Romney won't get my vote until its just REPEAL, and no replace.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:20:20 AM EDT
The change: more taxes for everybody, and more government control
The hope:
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:38:26 AM EDT
The whole business model of insurance is "We're going to be that you won't get sick, and you're buying insurance just in case you do."

So taking away the "pre-existing condition" thing just screams from the rooftops that the end goal is to bankrupt all the fuckers. Of course, just about everyone either has first-hand experience or knows of a friend who was dicked around by a medical insurer, so I guess this sort of thing was bound to happen eventually.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 6:39:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BuckeyeDoc:
You may be able to keep your doctor, but your doctor may not be able to afford to keep you.

The day the Supreme court decision was announced I decided we will stop taking all Government forms of insurance in my office. ( I make exeptions for Vets for now)
We will be looking very closely from now on at what insurance each patient has and whether we can afford to treat them or not. Our time and work has a certain value, and if you can't or won't pay for your service, you don't get to just demand it.
Show up with your "Obamacare-Advantage-Card" wanting your free-immediate-painless care with an unlimited supply of Percocets ? (I'm not kidding, there are people exactly like this)... "too bad, we don't take that anymore, try the clinic with the huge line and no air-conditioning across the street, but you might want to bring a lunch, the wait can be a tad long...."

The level of stupid in our society is mind-numbing right now.
I was talking to my friend who is an E.R. Doc who told me about some fine use of 911 services and hospital emergency departments. All these people called 911 and were transported and treated emergently in a hospital:
1. A lady who got hand lotion in her eye. ........the day before calling 911.....
2. A person who got stung by a bee.......5 days prior to calling 911, but who saw a tv show that said you can die from a bee sting if you have an allergic reaction.
3. A lady who got a bar of soap stuck "down south". It was her second E.R. visit that year for the same issue. E.R doc recommended "Soap-on-a-rope" in her discharge instructions....

I'm sure this will only get more interesting as time progresses....


Awwww the dying gasps of capitalism applied to an incompatible system put in place by your overlords... You are gonna need some education to fall in line.
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