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Posted: 9/30/2011 12:56:40 PM EDT
[#1]
you mix dirty water with clean ( semi clean
 ) water you just get more dirty water |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 12:57:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Nothing these guys do is without personal gain - power grab + damage control
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Posted: 9/30/2011 12:59:22 PM EDT
[#3]
So the FBI firearms division would take over their pooch-shooting responsibilities, big deal
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Posted: 9/30/2011 12:59:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Sounds like the old slight of hand to me. http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf/page/full/preview Yep. I commented in the tacked thread that I don't think the ATF should be liquidated. Laws reformed to restore 2A rights and restrict the ATF, yes, but disbanding the ATF at this point can only hurt us, I think. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:01:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:01:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Isn't the ATF the body that has to sign off on NFA paperwork?
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:04:55 PM EDT
[#7]
FBI gets part of the enforcement responsibility, IRS gets the NFA (tax) part and the "terminated" agents go to work the next day with a new badge. PR problem solved.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:09:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. Fire all the agents, managers, directors, deputy directors, etc... and bar them from future employment with the Federal government. 
Hot damn, I should be President. I'm good at this. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:12:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:14:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it. Less enforcement sounds just fine to me. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#11]
What could be better, merging the agency who runs NICS with the agency in charge of enforcing gun laws? Good thinking!
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:17:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it. I dunno. The BATFE has been culturally broken as an organization for decades. I have interacted with FBI and BATFE agents before, and while I met some great BATFE agents, the FBI guys are head and shoulders above the majority of them in professional standards. You couldn't make the BATFE much worse. I am cautiously optimistic that FBI standards applied to them would be a good thing. Might not change laws, but it could eliminate a lot of the abuse and idiocy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:17:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it. Less enforcement sounds just fine to me. It wouldn't be less, just less competent. Done by a work force with severe morale issues. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:20:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Isn't the ATF the body that has to sign off on NFA paperwork? Do you really think Obama is going to disband a group that takes $200 tax checks from rich white guys? |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:22:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it. I dunno. The BATFE has been culturally broken as an organization for decades. I have interacted with FBI and BATFE agents before, and while I met some great BATFE agents, the FBI guys are head and shoulders above the majority of them in professional standards. You couldn't make the BATFE much worse. I am cautiously optimistic that FBI standards applied to them would be a good thing. Might not change laws, but it could eliminate a lot of the abuse and idiocy. FBI and BATFE are two entirely different organizations and cultures. Most, if not all, FBI agents are lawyers, CPAs, or similar. BATFE is much more blue collar. BATFE historically has done much more undercover work than the FBI. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:30:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Firearms and Explosives to FBI, Alcohol and Tobacco to DEA?
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#17]
So? It just gets reincarnated as something newly named. Some agency has to hold and enforce the US Code in the ATF's mission area. Its not as if the laws are being removed from the books.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:33:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Firearms and Explosives to FBI, they have been fighting over the explosives and arson turf for years |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF 
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:35:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Firearms and Explosives to FBI, they have been fighting over the explosives and arson turf for years FBI sees itself as the world's premiere law enforcement agency. I don't think they will be happy until every type of service is under their responsibility. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:35:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. Fire all the agents, managers, directors, deputy directors, etc... and bar them from future employment with the Federal government. http://lh5.ggpht.com/-dKxnXHNKQLU/ToYv1nsYUJI/AAAAAAAAD64/E0lFsehVG3Q/s640/s0105150_sc7.jpg Hot damn, I should be President. I'm good at this.  |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:37:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Isn't the ATF the body that has to sign off on NFA paperwork? it was originally the treasury dept. thats where it should return to. all atf "regulations" that are not LAW passed by a congress or *shutters* by executive order should be removed. FUCK the atf and FUCK obama. fuck the DOJ too while we are at it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:38:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not happening. And even if it did, it wouldn't change anything effecting firearms owners. Just a different form number, a new address for some field offices. Abolishing/absorbing/merging the agency in no way changes the laws they enforce. Probably makes it worse, since the new agency probably won't want to do it and certainly would have no experience in doing it. I dunno. The BATFE has been culturally broken as an organization for decades. I have interacted with FBI and BATFE agents before, and while I met some great BATFE agents, the FBI guys are head and shoulders above the majority of them in professional standards. You couldn't make the BATFE much worse. I am cautiously optimistic that FBI standards applied to them would be a good thing. Might not change laws, but it could eliminate a lot of the abuse and idiocy. FBI and BATFE are two entirely different organizations and cultures. Most, if not all, FBI agents are lawyers, CPAs, or similar. BATFE is much more blue collar. BATFE historically has done much more undercover work than the FBI. Not at all true, even during the Hoover years. A common misconception then and even less true now. I don't know statistics (and neither do you, I'll warrant), but the FBI is more than 5 times bigger in terms of SA's and does a very large amount of undercover work. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:39:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
you mix dirty water with clean ( semi clean ) water you just get more dirty water Jeff Foxworthy has a line similar to this, something like "you mix pond scum with tap water you ain't getting Evian." |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:39:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Firearms and Explosives to FBI, Alcohol and Tobacco to DEA? what is this fucking 1925? we dont need ANYTHING related to alcohol anymore. ATF was a prohibition era creation, and it should have died with prohibition as well. is moonshining really that big of a problem? tobacco can go to FDA, or dont regulate it at all. it would not break my heart. firearms and explosives go to FBI for federal matters. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:43:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Highly doubtful.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:43:39 PM EDT
[#27]
It's a golden opportunity for one agency to do away with another agency with whom there is some competition.
In a government that may well be underfunded severely in the coming years (as if it isn't already) I would expect to see more concentrations and amalgamations of power. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:45:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. Fire all the agents, managers, directors, deputy directors, etc... and bar them from future employment with the Federal government. http://lh5.ggpht.com/-dKxnXHNKQLU/ToYv1nsYUJI/AAAAAAAAD64/E0lFsehVG3Q/s640/s0105150_sc7.jpg Hot damn, I should be President. I'm good at this. Got my vote brother 
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:49:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Better the devil you know.
There is no way the new org would be better. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#30]
I say we eliminate half the alphabet and start over.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 2:06:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
So the FBI firearms division would take over their pooch-shooting responsibilities, big deal The FBI ends up cleaning up the shittier messes that the BATFE creates anyway: Ruby Ridge, Waco... |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 2:08:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. Let 'em collect tolls on bridges and tunnels, clean up national parks, check fire extinguishers in gas stations, etc. You know, something in line with their abilities. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 2:14:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. IIRC when the ATF was moved to the DOJ, the FBI was not happy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 2:46:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Where there's smoke there's fire mirrors.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#35]
As crazy as this sounds, I trust the ATF more than I trust the DOJ. I don't want the current DOJ doing anything. I might be interested after the next election depending on how that goes.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:28:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Who will man the glory holes then?
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:31:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
you mix dirty water with clean ( semi clean ) water you just get more dirty water Like transplanting a cancerous organ into a somewhat healthy body. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:33:38 PM EDT
[#38]
I had an idea. States should make and enforce their own gun laws.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:34:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Who will man the glory holes then? Dave_A has a lot of free time these days..... |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:35:17 PM EDT
[#40]
If you guys think BATF is bad, just wait until the FBI starts to regulate firearms. You ain't seen nothing yet.
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:36:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems like the last time there were rumors about disbanding ATF, the other agencies didn't want the ATF agents. The ATF agents were considered substandard. Let 'em collect tolls on bridges and tunnels, clean up national parks, check fire extinguishers in gas stations, etc. You know, something in line with their abilities. Sounds good to me...or how about sending them overseas to do EOD duty?
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:36:36 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:24:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I agree.. Never happen |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:31:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: So? It just gets reincarnated as something newly named. Some agency has to hold and enforce the US Code in the ATF's mission area. Its not as if the laws are being removed from the books. Am I in GD? Stop it with the logic Chief. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:51:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: So? It just gets reincarnated as something newly named. Some agency has to hold and enforce the US Code in the ATF's mission area. Its not as if the laws are being removed from the books. Am I in GD? Stop it with the logic Chief. Really, cause we need lots and lots of laws to enforce....for freedom....and fiscal responsibility.....and shit....hell yessss.....  |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:52:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Firearms and Explosives to FBI, Alcohol and Tobacco to DEA? what is this fucking 1925? we dont need ANYTHING related to alcohol anymore. ATF was a prohibition era creation, and it should have died with prohibition as well. is moonshining really that big of a problem? tobacco can go to FDA, or dont regulate it at all. it would not break my heart. firearms and explosives go to FBI for federal matters. "Formed July 1, 1972."  |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:58:27 PM EDT
[#47]
They will just reassign the brass to different agencies in the .gov, rename it then call it a day... at best.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:10:03 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: "Formed July 1, 1972." Is when it became a separate Bureau within the Treasury Department. Before that, it was a part of the IRS as the Alcohol Tax Unit from 1933 on. The fancy ATF name may only be 40 years old, but they have been around a while. Wikipedia even says it was part of the FBI for a while in the early 30's... |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:28:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: "Formed July 1, 1972." Is when it became a separate Bureau within the Treasury Department. Before that, it was a part of the IRS as the Alcohol Tax Unit from 1933 on. The fancy ATF name may only be 40 years old, but they have been around a while. Wikipedia even says it was part of the FBI for a while in the early 30's... I suppose that's fair/sensible. Sort of like how the Air Force was organized as part of the Army until '47. |
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