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Posted: 3/28/2001 7:19:30 PM EDT
AND THE COP DIDN"T SHOW UP!!!! Haaaaaa cackle cackle cackle!! What's the best two words the judge can say to you? CASE DISMISSED!! Gotta gloat about this one! [:D]
Link Posted: 3/28/2001 7:25:41 PM EDT
HAHAHAHAHAHA Sounds like a good day to me. PS-slow down [;)]
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 12:34:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2001 12:45:25 AM EDT by Dave_G]
No, you gloat when the judge says, "Not guilty." That is, until you see the officer walk out smiling. Then you run out and confront him in the hall to gloat in his face. I had a moron do that once. "Yup," I told to him, "You beat me allright." Then I reminded him that he was out the time he had to take off work...TWICE...to fight the ticket, about eight hours total, and he paid a $25 fine plus penalty assessment for a total of $60 for a missing gas cap, a violation that was normally dismissed with no fine if it's signed off as fixed. Oh, did I mention that the 15 over the limit fine was usually $60 including penalty assessment? Oh, one other thing. Since I was there in the morning, and I worked afternoons/evenings, I was there on overtime. I made early $120 and they didn't care a bit whether I won or not back at the office. Hey! And I ended up writing four more cites after court, before shift and one of them ended up fighting it on my day off in a late afternoon session! I was on overtime for another ticket that morning, so the time ran straight through from 9am to 7pm. Time and a half for 9.5 hours for another $285. (Another reason to take Sundays and Mondays off.) Yup. He beat me allright. You'll never guess what I was doing between court appearances. Having the cite dismissed because the officer wasn't there isn't winning. It's just lucky. M15A2 is right. Slow down. You might not be so lucky next time.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 4:35:43 AM EDT
Hey, 1in9! if you're really feelin' lucky, come to Oakland, Tennessee. Bring your heavy foot & lots of cash.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 5:10:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 5:18:00 AM EDT
Second Dave G's comment...We have a saying for the folks that strut out of court after "winning". You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. Consider a recent case of a reckless driver that was given TWO tickets by two different officers within the space of ten minutes for driving like a douchbag. He takes us to court with his lawyer and walks away. He walked away from paying about $160 plus $25 court costs. He paid the lawyer about $800. Bottom line. I guarantee that he will drive more carefully through our city than before.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 5:25:48 AM EDT
As long as were on the "legal" subject, My roommate got a class A misdamenor where the maximum penalties are $2000 fine and up to 1 year. He had the fine reduced to $100, 20hrs community service and a deferred imposition (so its off his record in a year). Is he now a "prohibited" person when it comes to buying firearms?
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 5:59:51 AM EDT
oh really, Beer Slayer. So what you are advocating is requiring officers to work for free, which is illegal. Officers (or any employee, for that matter)cannot be forced to work for nothing. We can't help that court times often fall outside our regular shift hours.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 6:10:05 AM EDT
I work for nothing all the time,every year for 5.5 months to pay the IRS.....about speeding tickets...the way I see it is voluntary local tax, I helped one town in Louisisana build a new court house....
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 6:19:01 AM EDT
Dave.. Ease up there big fella. I'm a safe driver, (never had an accident, and never a ticket for anything other than speeding. Driving since 1971. BUT, speeding is a game isn't it? Admit it! I got the ticket in guestion 20 miles east of Raton New Mexico out near Chapulin Volcano. Look at the atlas, it's a straight 2 lane with no towns or even intersections for many miles. How many drivers actually go the speed limit there? I'll take my tickets like a man, but I refuse to feel like a criminal just because I want to open her up every once in a while. And I know the cop is doing his job, he's not a bad guy either. 2 other side notes: First, have you seen the New Mexico State troopers uniform? TOTAL Nazi SS replica! All black with black Sam Browne and Nazi looking hat. Add some silver death's heads and you're there. I'd be a little embarrased to dress that way for work. (Some guys would be proud, I know). Second, how many of you hard core traffic cops have driven in europe or south america? It's like a freaking demolition derby! They have NO regard for lanes, speeds, signals etc etc. I'll tell you, once you've driven through Brazil, you never look at a stop sign again the same way in your life! So forgive me if I sometimes lead foot it thru your little town, I'm just dreaming of Sao Paulo.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 6:52:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 8:24:37 AM EDT
Hey Beer Slayer, Only 2 to 3% of the cites I wrote ended up in court. All were infractions, not misdemeanors. Forcing an officer to appear in court uncompensated for a citation written while in uniform, on or off-duty (as in riding the motor or driving the patrol car to and from work) is unconstitutional and a violation of the officer's civil rights. If I had to be there on my off time, I was going get paid for it. You are bashing cops and I really doubt that you truely respect the job they are doing. 1in9, Speeding is right up there with running red, and stale yellow lights as the major cause of traffic accidents and fatalities. Speeding itself is not a game. It's too dangerous to play a "game" like that in traffic with all the bad drivers out there. Catching speeders can be a game until it gets scary, then it isn't speeding anymore. Then it becomes reckless driving. That was how I determined whether or not a violator got a ticket or a trip to the graybar hotel. Just because you think the officer's uniform is ugly or looks like something from Der Fuhrer's best dressed list doesn't justifying placing your own or other's lives at risk. I had better things to do than help the deputy coroner scrap somebody's brains or body parts off the pavement. Not too bad on cold winter night, but in afternoon on a bright, HOT summer day....
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 8:45:54 AM EDT
I hate certain types of cops who have friggin attitudes. If I get a ticket I'll fight it every time. In the last 15 years I have had one ticket, and it was dismissed when the officer didn't show up. The next time I saw him I asked why he didn't show up. He smiled and told me that there was a "scheduling" error, and that 3 other cites he was supposed to appear that day were also thrown out. It's my RIGHT to contest a ticket and explain to the judge why I feel that I was not wrong. If I get a ticket and I can get the fine reduced, no points added to my driving record, traffic school, or get it outright dismissed then it's worth the time off of work to me. And get this, some of us ALSO work for city, county, state and federal agencies. So when these people take time off work they are still getting paid. So the same taxpayers who are paying the wages of the officers are also paying the wages of some of the people who are in court contesting the citations.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 10:09:00 AM EDT
True story: A few weeks ago I was driving on C-470 which is the beltway around the southern part of Denver, and I'm going the speed limit (+/-), and I get passed like I'm stopped by a little Saturn with the special plates of a Colorado State Legislator. He had to be going 20mph over, maybe more. Not 3 minutes later, here comes an custom pickup with a Colorado Trooper in full gear, smoky hat and all, doing again, about 20 over. I know it was his personal vehicle, too. Private plates, and the state doesn't own trucks like that. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE, to be special like those guys, and not have the laws apply to them? Okay, I'm not flaming you cops. I've got plenty of friends that are on the local force, and they're great guys and we have loads of laughs together. When I said I take my tickets like a man I mean that I don't hassle the cop, he's just doing his job, a job I would never want to do. And I've ridden street bikes for 25 years without a crash, and that takes a good appreciation of highway safety. I know when it's safe to open her up, and when to cool it. AND, I was just mentioning the Nazi uniform because it was, well, weird! No reflection on the officer of course. Someone in New Mexico has some very unique fashion sense. If you saw the uni, you'd laugh too, (Or maybe give the Nazi salute, depending on your political persuasion). I will always, ALWAYS, fight my tickets. The DA is HAPPY to plea bargain. Trust me, if you just pay, you're getting more points and paying more fines than you need to. I am not a crook. (Where have I heard that one before). Sometimes I just like to have a little more fun than the law allows. Hate me if you want, but I'm one of the good guys, really. New Mexico Uber Alles!!
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 11:47:16 AM EDT
Driving since 71 and you still speed like that? Wow, I am only 36 and I grew up long ago. You probaly are a great guy, but eventually time will catch up with you. I just hope you only kill yourself and not someone else. sgtar15
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 12:00:44 PM EDT
Anyone who thinks speeding is the equivalent of running a red light is kidding themselves. The speed limits were set artificially low for cars built with 1960s technology. Now, when the speed limit is 75, there's probably no good reason to speed. But how about Maryland, where the SL on the interstate is 55? Is speeding there a safety issue or a FUND RAISING ISSUE? Get real.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 12:10:42 PM EDT
When I take a road trip, I'm doing anywhere between 70 and 90 the whole way, cept when the radar detector or CB tell me not to. Ain't had a speeding ticket in 13 years, so if they bag me one of these times, I'll just pay it and be on my way. But I won't stop speeding. US Highways were built for those speeds and it's only the commie mommy types that have tried to force us to drive like a bunch of old women. I refuse to obey their dumb law.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 12:13:26 PM EDT
90 mph? Slow down man! You put yourself and other in danger! You might be laughing now, but what until you got yourself in an accident? and end up on a wheel chair? or worse?
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:08:19 PM EDT
1. It is not the speed, it is the asshole impeding the flow of traffic. 2. In America, the power of arrest comes from the people. With the exception of a misdemeanor in their presence and CI’s, they have no more power than you or I. If I can’t carry a gun or speed, you should not be able to either. 3. No on asked you to be a cop.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:26:50 PM EDT
99% of people speed at one time or another. The ones that don't pull out into traffic without looking and go on their merry way without a care in the world. Cops are the worst offenders, period. Its just your bad luck if you happen to get a ticket instead of the next guy. The fine is nothing compaired to the insurance penalty. When its your turn to pay the taxman figure $100 for the ticket and $300 for the insurance (for the next 3 years). They ought to just mail the tickets out randomly and save some tax dollars. Everyone knows the safest time to exceed the speed limit is on a deserted highway with virtually no way of endangering anything. This is when you are the easiest prey for the cops as well. And they know this. If they gave a damn about safety they would be pulling the maniac driving through heavy traffic doing 20 over not the sitting duck driving cross country at 4 in the morning. Its just easier I guess.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:38:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:54:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:59:32 PM EDT
The Beer Slayer, I agree, I respect anyone who puts in a fair day of work. I get sick of anyone bitching about how hard his or her job is. No shit, everyone has a tough job. If these guys think it is so tough, go to school and learn a new trade. Just don’t try to make me believe you are special because you wear a badge.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:52:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:56:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:38:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:53:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:42:44 PM EDT
I was a LEO for a short while. What amazed me was the hypocrasy (sp?). The same cops that b!tched about speeding endagering the public would let other cops off when caught speeding, and cops should know better. I guess it's only an endangerment when us 'civilians' speed.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:50:17 PM EDT
There are laws in most states than could be enforced to prevent the guy in the passing lane from doing 50 MPH in a 70 Zone. Impeding the flow of traffic is the ticket in VA. I've never heard of anyone getting this ticket that was not parked in the road asleep however. I guess its more fun to do a power sliding u-turn in the middle of the interstate to catch a speeder though. Speeder much more likely to run for it than grandpa in the left lane.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 6:08:28 PM EDT
I drive fast. Im a very courteous and safe driver, but I hate to go slow. If conditions and traffic allow it I will always speed. I paid for the road, I should be allowed to use it as I see fit as long as I impose on no one elses right to use the road as well. Sometimes I wear my seatbelt and sometimes I dont. I dont believe that it should be legislated that I must wear it everytime I drive. I have free legal council and I will fight and quash every ticket I ever get for the rest of my life. I see speeding tickets as an illegal tax on going fast and I refuse to play that game. If I am pulled over I am very nice and courteous using "Yes Sir" or "Yes Mam'" but at the same time I could care less if they write tickets till their hands cramp. This is my view on speeding. Michael
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 6:22:36 PM EDT
Amen, I’m driving home from work today, cruise control set at 85. This asshole flies past me. Then slows to 75 as I am coming up on a 18-wheeler. I have to break cruise, get behind the asshole, pass the truck and it starts all over again. I had to go 90 just to get away from this dick. Confirm the following theories: 1. One of the mysteries of science is the magnetic property of traffic. If you notice, people tend to group together in traffic (like a pod of dolphins). If you try to break out, someone will follow. What happens next is the real mystery. For some reason they will decide to pass, as the pass they will slow down and start to pace you. 2. The person parked in the passing lane tends to be a little person (male or female) diving the biggest vehicle they can afford. 3. Cops will never pull the assholes over for impeding traffic, but they will stop you for trying to get out of these pods of traffic if you exceed the so-called speed limit. Here something to do for fun. I do this in my 96 Impala SS and in my 2000 Corvette. When the asshole following you tries to pass, (the same guy who passed earlier and then parked next to you), speed up. I let these guys get about 25 feet away then I drop the hammer. I get ¼ mile ahead then drop back to 80mph and let it start again. Watch the guys wife bitch each time you speed-up. (Think Nation Lampoons Christmas Vacation)
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 10:48:44 PM EDT
Speeding is not necessarily a dangerous thing to do. Case in point, my recent speeding ticket. It was a bright, clear day. The road was clear for miles (no one on it for long stretches) and straight for miles at a time. Other vehicles were moving at a good clip as well, and tended to move over to the right or be in the right lane anyway. I was driving a 2001 Dodge Neon [:)] rental car. The CHP officer was going the other way. Slowed down to 90 just in case. After a couple of minutes I figure he wasn't coming after me, so I resumed flooring it. About three minutes later I see a black speck catching up to me. Although he could have written that up on reckless, he cited me for maximum speed law violation. And yes, a stock Neon will do 120mph.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 12:42:57 AM EDT
Troy, Can't do it. As long as the driver isn't exceeding the speed limit, or impeding traffic (going 15 or more under the limit unless the flow of traffic is slower), you can't legally make them move over. As for the registration, mechanical and disabled motorist services, they are part of the job and MUST be done. In fact, aid to disabled motorists is a major CHP priority. I agree large speed differentials are a problem, but you can't do anything about it unless there is a violation of the law. BeerSlayer, I wouldn't have posted it if I hadn't done it. I was called out to a TC where a sport bike going about 100 mph in the dark rear-ended an asphalt dump truck going 55. Most of the skull from the bottom of the eye sockets up was gone. I carried the plastic bag while the deputy coroner picked up the pieces of bone, skin, hair and brain matter over 100 yard long red streak, and dug more out from under the lip of the dump bed. It didn't look like there would be enough blood left to get a BA, so she handed me another bag and scooped up a puddle of blood/spinal fluid that had leaked out of the body. Such a lovely job they have. By the way. Since the mid-80's, all new, and most older CHP officers are EMTs. There's lots more stories. Where I worked, EMS only hung around for the live ones and left the dead ones for the coroner. They were almost always long gone by the time the coroner got there. If the deputy coroner had no assistant, it fell to us to give them a hand. Also, it is written in state and federal law that an officer working in any capacity outside normal work hours must be paid OT or given comp time. They are strictly forbidden to adjust an officers schedule to minimize OT. Court appearances are an accepted part of law enforcement. If you don't like it, TFB. G_E_F, When I was working the road, as long as I didn't have any other plans, you were my favorite kind of violator. Cash or comp time off, didn't matter to me. You see, I really didn't care if I won or lost in court. Once I turned in the paperwork, it was no longer my case. It was the prosecutor's case, as I was there to help them. I think you guys are misinterpreting what I wrote. When I lost a ticket (and I only lost two out of several hundred), and the violator gloated about it (both times, and they acted like spoiled children), I was just reminding them that it was part of my job to be there, win or lose, and as part of my job, I was being well compensated for my time. Also, any person who puts in for pay during time spent in court as a defendant in a traffic case, who does so without the knowledge and permission of the employer, is committing fraud and is stealing from their employer. RikWriter, On freeways, unsafe speed is the most common primary collision factor (PCF) in accidents. On surface streets it is redlights/stop signs, followed by unsafe speed. I agree that the 55 mph limit on Maryland freeways today are probably in place for revenue generation. When the national speed limit was jumped BACK up to 60, 65, 70 or 75 depending on the type of freeway, accidents didn't rise appreciably, possibly due to improved vehicle safety technology because the average driver is still dangerous over 70. dport, Letting some people off or giving them a break on the speed is at the descretion of the officer. I only accidently cited one other officer, an LAPD Lt. I had a personal policy not to cite allied ag
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 5:29:41 AM EDT
Dave, OK, you win, I am going to join the FOP, sell my cars, and buy a Chevette. I will also sell my guns and keep my mouth shut when I see an injustice because: 1. The masses have spoken. 2. The government has my best interest at stake. 3. You and the rest of LEO can keep me safe. To bad, I can’t go shooting with you. Funny thing, I bet you have exceeded the speed limit more than all of us put together. I.e. exigent circumstances. See also: Terry v. Ohio, Adams v. Williams, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, especially Delaware v. Prouse. I would also suggest a review of the 4th Amendment.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 6:45:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 7:49:11 AM EDT
Dave G, I usually don't like to call people names but in this case you are an obvious hypocrit. The people who see the same "horrific" MVA's you do every day and yet they chose to speed you let off. They SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Yet you let them speed willy nilly around your state. I guess they don't pose the same hazard as we "civilians" do. If I had caught my mother doing something wrong I told her I would hammer her as hard as I could. Why? After all it's my own mother. Because she taught me right from wrong and I KNOW SHE KNOWS BETTER. I had the same philosophy with other cops. Nothin worse than civilians in uniform thinking they're not civilians.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 8:20:57 AM EDT
“Letting some people off or giving them a break on the speed is at the descretion of the officer. I only accidently cited one other officer, an LAPD Lt. I had a personal policy not to cite allied agency personnel, firemen, ER personnel or anyone who made me laugh.” The last time I looked, you do not have that type of discretion. Only a Judge has the ability to take into account or mitigate circumstances. You need to go back to cop school. WTF, are you Judge Roy Bean? Ever hear of due process? Equal protection under the law? I start to think cops are persecuted, and you confirm you f-ckers get what you deserve.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:03:16 AM EDT
The funniest thing I saw lately was a cop on the local news (during some incident or another) wearign a t-shirt that read: "Selective Law Enforcement" I doubt he had any grasp of the irony. Seems like cops and other worshippers of the state have the gig down just as well as the monks and clergymen did during the Dark Ages. There is a fundamental assumption being made here that no one has even brought up: That speed limits should even exist at all! I'd say it's all about revenue, revenue, revenue, disguised as a public safety iniative. I'm so tired of other people trying to save me from myself--seatbelts, helmets, etc. So much twisted propaganda. As for the guy who biffed his motorcycle and spread his guts far and wide, I'm glad he's out of the gene pool. You can't use a single anectdote to justify a whole ridiculously irrrational policy of who deserves to be fined and who does not. We desperately need a mechanism that punishes the lawless but at the same time does not encourage abuse and elitism. And yes, I consider getting paid overtime to sit in a kangaroo traffic court a definite ABUSE! Worse, they are seizing people's cars in NYC for alleged DUI. The cops in Provo, UT want to be able to go into your house and clean it up if it doesn't meet "community standards." A DEA agent shot an innocent man in NC, and no one has said boo about it. What is going on? Sorry to get off topic.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:28:29 AM EDT
trickshot, It is why we need to protect the second amendment. First they protects us from our cars, next firearms. It will be the same Storm Trooper giving you a ticket for speeding today that will confiscate your guns tomorrow. Like Dave has indicated, It is for your own good. Only then we will hear stories about the brains of some kid he cleaned off the wall and how he let the LT slide because he needs a gun to protect us. As they march us off to the ovens, he will say, “I needed the O.T.”
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 11:26:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2001 11:42:24 AM EDT by Dave_G]
Hey pissed-off guys, I forgot to put officers's spouses and significant others on the list. All that I posted only applies to infractions. I booked one allied agency officer for DUI and "dropped a dime" on two others going over 100. The dime drop ensures that the officer's agency finds out that he was a bad boy. The punishment for an allied agency dime drop is usually far worse than a ticket that the officer may try to hide from his agency. If the agency checks the officers driving record regularly, they can catch a ticket and ding the officer a second time for one incident. That's essentially double jeapardy with no appeal. QCMGR, You were looking in the wrong place. If no paperwork is started, a judge doesn't come into the picture. I lost count of the times I unloaded and returned unlawfully carried concealed weapons to apparently law-abiding citizens who couldn't get a permit. Officers have fairly wide descretion on infractions and some misdemeanors. They are also expected to give verbal warnings. My ratio of cites to verbal warnings was about 2:3 (3 warnings for every 2 cites). They are permitted to allow violators to talk them out of issuing a ticket. I would let just about anyone talk me out of a ticket, but never let anyone talk me into giving one when I stopped them intending to give a warning. If you never got a warning instead of a ticket, it was likely because you copped the same attitude with the officer that you have with me, on this forum. Attitude is a big factor. A pissed-off violator will always lose the pissing contest. If you are ever stopped again, try being civil. Don't unload on the officer because he caught you speeding or whatever. You may find out he/she is human and is willing to give you a break in exchange for a civilized level of mutual respect. Ultimately, that's the bottom line.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 1:41:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:15:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2001 2:17:13 PM EDT by gus]
I was in Phoenix on business a couple of years ago, and on the weekend I drove down to Tucson to visit my brother. All of the guys i knew at work and also my brother warned me not to drive much slower than 90 mph on I-10 because of the danger of being rear-ended. When I drove down, I set the cruise control at 90 on the money and was at about the average speed of the other traffic. I passed several roadside LEO's none of which gave chase. Traffic was very sparse and if you've never been there, the road is, ahem, straight and smooth. It was nice to be able to make good time! On another note, I have noticed a real difference in the attitudes of LEO's in different states, namely Maryland and Pennsylvania. Maryland cops are much more likely to be arrogant and come off as tax collectors. Pennsylvania officers (note the different word), so long as you are cooperative, are very likely to scold you and let you off with a warning. Also, Pa. Troopers are the last people in the world you want to piss off! They will tolerate a little bit of smart-ass attitude, but don't push them too far or they probably won't open your car door as they remove you from the vehicle!! Well, that may be a little exageration, but I respect Pa. Troopers completely. Md. cops I simply avoid, both on and off duty. I regulary shoot with several Pa. Troopers and they are a great bunch. All the Md cops that I've met at the range acted like "why are you here?". Just my observations. I wouldn't want to be an LEO in any state.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:05:01 PM EDT
Dave, Please don’t take my hard ass stand personally. I have a LEO background and a BS in Criminology. The devils advocate questions are my thoughts. Police work is a product of the people and it works both ways. I have not had a ticket in 15 years because of the golden rule and mutual trust and respect is the key. This is what I like about this forum, a chance to exchange ideas with like-minded people centering on a common cause. The second amendment.
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