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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why was President Lincoln a bad president? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:46:06 PM EDT

[#1]

Bad beard and an ugly wife, people hate that shit.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:48:05 PM EDT

[#2]

Bitter southerners perhaps?

Lincoln was our greatest president ever.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:50:07 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

He was actually fairly pro slavery, anti-abolotionist until it politically suited him during the war (In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law ).

He was a pragmatist, but he was anti-slavery.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." (August 1, 1858)

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the Territories, where our votes will reach it." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs another man, that is more than self-government - that is despotism. If the negro is a man, why then my ancient faith tells me that 'all men are created equal' and that there can be no moral right in connection with one man's making a slave of another." (Springfield, Illinois, October, 1854)

"I want every man to have the chance - and I believe a black man is entitled to it - in which he can better his condition, when he may look forward and hope to be a hired laborer this year and the next, work for himself afterward, and finally to hire men to work for him. That is the true system." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and under a just God, can not long retain it." (Letter to Henry Pierce, et. al., August 6, 1859)

Fair enough...but generally when one's against something...they want to do away with it everywhere. He made speech after speech about not wanting to do away with it where it already existed (see your second quote), but wanted to prevent it in the new lands we were expanding to. Nevermind the slavery that existed in the north as well...he didn't go after that either.

To me that's spineless. If you're going to go after it...go after it.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:50:28 PM EDT

[#4]

There's a reason why if you lie down all U.S. coin currency heads up, all the other presidents have their back turned to Lincoln.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:54:11 PM EDT

[#5]

Lincoln defeated the evil of the old south, freed the slaves, and held the country together.

He was bad, as in bad ass.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:54:23 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

He was actually fairly pro slavery, anti-abolotionist until it politically suited him during the war (In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law ).

He was a pragmatist, but he was anti-slavery.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." (August 1, 1858)

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the Territories, where our votes will reach it." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs another man, that is more than self-government - that is despotism. If the negro is a man, why then my ancient faith tells me that 'all men are created equal' and that there can be no moral right in connection with one man's making a slave of another." (Springfield, Illinois, October, 1854)

"I want every man to have the chance - and I believe a black man is entitled to it - in which he can better his condition, when he may look forward and hope to be a hired laborer this year and the next, work for himself afterward, and finally to hire men to work for him. That is the true system." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and under a just God, can not long retain it." (Letter to Henry Pierce, et. al., August 6, 1859)

Fair enough...but generally when one's against something...they want to do away with it everywhere. He made speech after speech about not wanting to do away with it where it already existed (see your second quote), but wanted to prevent it in the new lands we were expanding to. Nevermind the slavery that existed in the north as well...he didn't go after that either.

To me that's spineless. If you're going to go after it...go after it.

He was trying to prevent the very Civil War that the South started. He wanted to do away with slavery peacefully like the British had done. His revulsion for slavery is clear in the quotes I posted.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:55:24 PM EDT

[#7]

He raped every southern gentile woman during the war personally; every day, door to door.

At least thats what Ive been told.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:55:44 PM EDT

[#8]

He was a great president because he killed the enemies of America by the tens of thousands, soldiers, civillians, men women and children. That is what a good/great president does.
Death to the enemies of America.
If you are against America, join the dead, your time is at hand.

Posted: 2/13/2011 4:57:08 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

He was actually fairly pro slavery, anti-abolotionist until it politically suited him during the war (In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law ).

He was a pragmatist, but he was anti-slavery.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." (August 1, 1858)

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the Territories, where our votes will reach it." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs another man, that is more than self-government - that is despotism. If the negro is a man, why then my ancient faith tells me that 'all men are created equal' and that there can be no moral right in connection with one man's making a slave of another." (Springfield, Illinois, October, 1854)

"I want every man to have the chance - and I believe a black man is entitled to it - in which he can better his condition, when he may look forward and hope to be a hired laborer this year and the next, work for himself afterward, and finally to hire men to work for him. That is the true system." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and under a just God, can not long retain it." (Letter to Henry Pierce, et. al., August 6, 1859)

Fair enough...but generally when one's against something...they want to do away with it everywhere. He made speech after speech about not wanting to do away with it where it already existed (see your second quote), but wanted to prevent it in the new lands we were expanding to. Nevermind the slavery that existed in the north as well...he didn't go after that either.

To me that's spineless. If you're going to go after it...go after it.

Politics is a compromise. I'd say that he was bluffing when he said that he did not want to abolish it everywhere. Do our current and recent leaders not do essentially the same thing? I'd say that he was pretty damn committed. He was not going to get into a civil war over one thing, but rather a number of different issues that he could address and gain support from all at once.

Once the gloves were off, he did go after it. No compromise. Before that, it was pure consensus-building.

Posted: 2/13/2011 5:02:34 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

He was actually fairly pro slavery, anti-abolotionist until it politically suited him during the war (In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law ).

He was a pragmatist, but he was anti-slavery.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." (August 1, 1858)

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the Territories, where our votes will reach it." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs another man, that is more than self-government - that is despotism. If the negro is a man, why then my ancient faith tells me that 'all men are created equal' and that there can be no moral right in connection with one man's making a slave of another." (Springfield, Illinois, October, 1854)

"I want every man to have the chance - and I believe a black man is entitled to it - in which he can better his condition, when he may look forward and hope to be a hired laborer this year and the next, work for himself afterward, and finally to hire men to work for him. That is the true system." (Speech at New Haven, March 6, 1860)

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and under a just God, can not long retain it." (Letter to Henry Pierce, et. al., August 6, 1859)

Fair enough...but generally when one's against something...they want to do away with it everywhere. He made speech after speech about not wanting to do away with it where it already existed (see your second quote), but wanted to prevent it in the new lands we were expanding to. Nevermind the slavery that existed in the north as well...he didn't go after that either.

To me that's spineless. If you're going to go after it...go after it.

Politics is a compromise. I'd say that he was bluffing when he said that he did not want to abolish it everywhere. Do our current and recent leaders not do essentially the same thing? I'd say that he was pretty damn committed. He was not going to get into a civil war over one thing, but rather a number of different issues that he could address and gain support from all at once.

Once the gloves were off, he did go after it. No compromise. Before that, it was pure consensus-building.

How did he go after it "no compromise" when the EP freed only the slaves in the south? Still sounds like a compromise...

Oh that's right...the elites on the north that put him into office didn't want to lose their "servants."

Posted: 2/13/2011 5:18:35 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
He was a great president because he made tough choices at a time in history when hot tempers, hatred, treason, and outright stupidity was in vogue. He got our country through a time when to many men, esp. public officials, lacked the character to stand fast and keep their oath to the Constitution. There are always some to this day that just can't get over it.

Um... I'm no Lincoln-hater, but isn't that a bit of a contradictory statement?

Posted: 2/13/2011 5:20:19 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

How did he go after it "no compromise" when the EP freed only the slaves in the south? Still sounds like a compromise...

Oh that's right...the elites on the north that put him into office didn't want to lose their "servants."

Yeah, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were pure coincidence.

Posted: 2/13/2011 5:56:31 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
in before a lot of butthurt Southerners.

in before a lot of butthurt yokels that are depressed that they can't own slaves anymore.

In before the gross ignorance starts...........Oh, too late.

Posted: 2/13/2011 5:59:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Yes, he devastated State's rights and the federal system. Beginning of the end.

And the Balkanization of the US wouldn't have been?

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:05:55 PM EDT

[#15]

Both sides had every chance to NOT start a civil war, Lincoln included = Bad move.

Good move = freeing slaves. Maybe the only thing he did right, but it's pretty big. Kinda like Truman dropping the bomb.

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:12:15 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Seen a post here the other day that asked you to list the top 3 worst presidents, and Lincoln was listed several times as one of the worst presidents ever. Why is that? I was always taught in school that he was one of the best presidents of all time.
Please explain.

Lew Rockwell adherents. He hates Lincoln and I see some of his arguments repeated here. I don't agree with them.
People call Lincoln a totalitarian, but for some reason we weren't a totalitarian state after his administration. It was if it was a temporary emergency to save the country or something.
His successor Johnson was probably the worst president we ever had but he doesn't receive nearly as much criticism as Lincoln does.

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:24:29 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Both sides had every chance to NOT start a civil war, Lincoln included = Bad move.

Good move = freeing slaves. Maybe the only thing he did right, but it's pretty big. Kinda like Truman dropping the bomb.

sheese.

the south wanted the war. the rank and file, the guy on the street. when war broke out after sumter they had parties, rallies, marches. during the first few battles the folks would ride out to the battlefield, and picnic waiting for the 'fun' to begin. many thought it would be over quickly. many young men, especially in the south, wanted to go off to war. the politicos on both sides were foaming at the mouth to do battle with each other. senator preston beat senator sumner almost to death in the senate chamber.

at the time there was only two things that could happen, succession or war.

i havent seen anyone mention the fact that based on the way the nation came into being, that there were serious legal issues that would imply that states had the right to succeed. and this perhaps was one more item that the north and lincoln trampled on.

make no mistake, liberty and rights and many legalities were thrown out the window by the north. but hey, its kinda like torturing a taliban who knows where the ambush is. sometimes you have to break some eggs to bake a cake.

some believe that god plays a hand in amerika, that amerika has a destiny or part to play. meh.. i dunno, but i will say this, if amerika had been divided in 1861, the evils that arose in europe and the orient would have been unopposed in the 20th century.

food for thought.

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:33:12 PM EDT

[#18]

What did Lincoln do that was more a monstrous evil than slavery?

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:49:36 PM EDT

[#19]

Troll

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:56:20 PM EDT

[#20]

I don't like or hate him. I'm glad the union survived. I do think that if he had placed the right generals in charge at the beginning, it would have been at most a one year war.
Read Shelby Foote's series. Then come back and discuss. (in about a month)

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:56:27 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How did he go after it "no compromise" when the EP freed only the slaves in the south? Still sounds like a compromise...

Oh that's right...the elites on the north that put him into office didn't want to lose their "servants."

Yeah, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were pure coincidence.

Umm...and all of those came after Lincoln was dead...

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:57:30 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How did he go after it "no compromise" when the EP freed only the slaves in the south? Still sounds like a compromise...

Oh that's right...the elites on the north that put him into office didn't want to lose their "servants."

Yeah, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were pure coincidence.

Umm...and all of those came after Lincoln was dead...

Dead or not it was the culmination of what Lincoln started with the emancipation proclamation.

Posted: 2/13/2011 6:58:05 PM EDT

[#23]

Hmmm...where do I start?

1. Suspension of Habeas Corpus
2. Use of troop deployments to persuade voters
3. Poor selection of early Generals
4. Once he found worth a damn Generals he allowed them to attack civilian targets
5. He never held blacks in a respectful light while urging equality and the abolition of slavery. He also allowed border states to maintain slavery
6. He completely fucked over the Sioux when they rose against the U.S

I wrote my senior seminar paper on this exact subject, so feel free to ask questions if you have any.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:07:03 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I don't like or hate him. I'm glad the union survived. I do think that if he had placed the right generals in charge at the beginning, it would have been at most a one year war.
Read Shelby Foote's series. Then come back and discuss. (in about a month)

more than a month, a lot more. the 2nd volume drags. its slow. i think he went 10+ years before he published the third book. There were no 'right generals' in the north. the cream joined the confederarcy. sherman might have been an exception. grant was willing to throw large numbers of men into bad situations and thereby grind down the southern forces. beyond that he was a bit inept. previous generals either hesitated or were overly cautious. it took lincoln a long time to sort out the slackers.

if stonewall jackson had survived the Battle of Chancellorsville and been present at gettysburgh the whole war might have turned out different.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:08:45 PM EDT

[#25]

Lincoln was a tyrant. Now, go ahead, call me a butthurt southerner - I'll see you in the next Obama thread being butthurt over the same kind of disregard for the Constitution.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:17:50 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Lincoln was a tyrant. Now, go ahead, call me a butthurt southerner - I'll see you in the next Obama thread being butthurt over the same kind of disregard for the Constitution.

The Union survived and we aren't a police state because of Lincoln. So WTF is your problem?

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:20:26 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How did he go after it "no compromise" when the EP freed only the slaves in the south? Still sounds like a compromise...

Oh that's right...the elites on the north that put him into office didn't want to lose their "servants."

Yeah, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were pure coincidence.

Umm...and all of those came after Lincoln was dead...

The 13th Amendment was passed by the US Senate on April 8, 1864, and by the House on January 31, 1865.

Lincoln wasn't assassinated until April 14, 1865.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:22:14 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Hmmm...where do I start?

1. Suspension of Habeas Corpus
2. Use of troop deployments to persuade voters3. Poor selection of early Generals
4. Once he found worth a damn Generals he allowed them to attack civilian targets
5. He never held blacks in a respectful light while urging equality and the abolition of slavery. He also allowed border states to maintain slavery
6. He completely fucked over the Sioux when they rose against the U.S

I wrote my senior seminar paper on this exact subject, so feel free to ask questions if you have any.

Please elaborate on this ?

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:27:45 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Bitter southerners perhaps?

Lincoln was our greatest president ever.

FAIL.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:32:23 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
What did Lincoln do that was more a monstrous evil than slavery?

Yep.

Freed the blacks, enslaved us all with expanded Federalism, and did it all by violating or most fundamental rights.

Fuck Lincoln.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:34:28 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

What did Lincoln do that was more a monstrous evil than slavery?

Yep.

Freed the blacks, enslaved us all with expanded Federalism, and did it all by violating or most fundamental rights.

Fuck Lincoln.

During Lincoln's entire tenure, the federal government did not grow a single bit.

This is a bs card that southerners try to revise history in order to try and bring more people to their side.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:35:57 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Jailed dissenters.

Yep. Suspended Habeas Corpus without the consent of congress. That's the only problem I have with him. Its a shame he was assassinated. He was the only thing keeping the radical Republicans from punishing the south.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:36:50 PM EDT

[#33]

The problems of today of an overbearing federal government and limited state's rights can be traced directly to the Lincoln presidency.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:39:04 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

The problems of today of an overbearing federal government and limited state's rights can be traced directly to the Lincoln presidency.

Wrong. Government pretty much stayed the same through the 17 and 1800s. It wasn't until Teddy Roosevelt (one of my favorite presidents) when government started to expand alot.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:39:14 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

What did Lincoln do that was more a monstrous evil than slavery?

Yep.

Freed the blacks, enslaved us all with expanded Federalism, and did it all by violating or most fundamental rights.

Fuck Lincoln.

One of the legacies of the Lincoln era was the 14th Amendment, which was recently used by the Supreme Court to overturn gun laws in Chicago.

IIRC there were plenty of ARFCOM members south of the Mason-Dixon line who were upset the day of the ruling that the court didn't use the more radical "Privileges and Immunities" clause, which, ironically enough, was put into place to keep the former Confederate states from defying the US Constitution.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:46:49 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Look, he kept the Union together. He managed to keep the North resolute in the face of some big defeats and some extremely bad generals. He should be thanked for that. And I am a dyed-in-the-wool Southerner.

However, he did things that no President should be allowed to do. He suspended Habeas Corpus (Congress quickly backed him up and did it Constitutionally), he ignored Federal court rulings and essentially did not allow the Supreme Court to meet. The Emancipation Proclamation was absolutely invalid Constitutionally. There are various things he did that no President would get away with in peace time. And, frankly, I don't think he ever would have done any of that stuff in peace time. I believe he truly believed he was doing good. But he exponentially increased the power of the executive and purview of Federal Authority/Power.

He was a dictator. One we needed. And he was a good man. But in the process of saving the Union, he set in place operational precedent that has diminished federalism.

No offense, but your post is self-contradictory. how can one be a dictator, and do things no President should be allowed to do, - and be a "good man"?

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:48:47 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't like or hate him. I'm glad the union survived. I do think that if he had placed the right generals in charge at the beginning, it would have been at most a one year war.
Read Shelby Foote's series. Then come back and discuss. (in about a month)

more than a month, a lot more. the 2nd volume drags. its slow. i think he went 10+ years before he published the third book. There were no 'right generals' in the north. the cream joined the confederarcy. sherman might have been an exception. grant was willing to throw large numbers of men into bad situations and thereby grind down the southern forces. beyond that he was a bit inept. previous generals either hesitated or were overly cautious. it took lincoln a long time to sort out the slackers.

if stonewall jackson had survived the Battle of Chancellorsville and been present at gettysburgh the whole war might have turned out different.

Well, some read faster than others. I've read it twice and still will probably read it again. It is a lot of information. The union had some good officers, mostly in the Navy. Don't have the volumes in front of me, but if I as a President, have to sneak to the front and ask a general why won't you attack, then something is wrong.

There are some definite turning points where the south squandered gains that could have changed the outcome of the war.
I maintain that it is a shame that so many had to die to preserve this union, but I am glad it was preserved.
You are correct that it took lincoln too long to decide a commander was weak.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:48:55 PM EDT

[#38]

he kicked Southern ass!!!

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:48:57 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Only one other man could have held the nation together and it wouldn't be by war either. However, George Washington had died decades before the Civil War. Lincoln was the right man for the right time. Certainly rights were violated, but he did hold the nation together when no other nation could have.

The South's biggest mistake was firing on Fort Sumter. Maj. Anderson told the Southern firebrands that he was low on food and that he would be evacuating soon. Instead of waiting another day, Pierre Gustav T. Beauregard fired on Sumter, inciting the loyal states of the north to avenge the honor of the flag.

The approaching Federal reinforcements has soemthing to do with the timing....Lincoln's hand had been tipped in Florida.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:52:47 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Seen a post here the other day that asked you to list the top 3 worst presidents, and Lincoln was listed several times as one of the worst presidents ever. Why is that? I was always taught in school that he was one of the best presidents of all time.

Please explain.

Lincoln Suspended Habeus Corpus. Habeus Corpus prevents Americans from wrongly being imprisoned.
Only Congress has the Authority to Suspend Habeus Corpus and that during a time of Rebellion.
Congress never voted on suspending Habeus Corpus, it was suspended by Presidential Decree.
The Supreme Court went on to order Lincoln to bring prisoners who had been arrested without reason before the court.
He refused on the notion that the writ's suspension gave him that right to do so.
By ignoring the rights of the judicial and legislative branches of the government,
Lincoln abused the power of the presidency by giving it more power than it was allowed by the Constitution

He had Civilians tried before Military Tribun Some 300 newspapers were shut down and all telegraph communication was censored. Northern elections were rigged; Democratic voters were intimidated by federal soldiers; hundreds of New York City draft protesters were gunned down by federal troops; West Virginia was unconstitutionally carved out of Virginia; and the most outspoken member of the Democratic Party opposition, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, was deported. Duly elected members of the Maryland legislature were imprisoned, as was the mayor of Baltimore and Congressman Henry May. The border states were systematically disarmed in violation of the Second Amendment and private property was confiscated.
For example the Property that is now Arlington National Cemetary originally belonged to Mrs. Robert E. Lee. This land was taken without compensation or due process under Eminent Domain.
The House was turned into a Hospital, and the dead were buried on the the grounds.
The Lee Family successfully sued the Federal Government after the Civil War for Compensation.

He had Newspaper Editors who opposed the North's Involvement in the Civil War rounded up and imprisoned.
He started our first Income Tax
He initiated our First Draft

You left out attempting to arrest the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and issuing fiat money.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:55:09 PM EDT

[#41]

If the South had been allowed to secede, I wouldn't be able to go to NASCAR races.

On the other hand, I could have moved to the South and not have to worry doing my own yardwork.

Posted: 2/13/2011 7:57:22 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hmmm...where do I start?

1. Suspension of Habeas Corpus
2. Use of troop deployments to persuade voters3. Poor selection of early Generals
4. Once he found worth a damn Generals he allowed them to attack civilian targets
5. He never held blacks in a respectful light while urging equality and the abolition of slavery. He also allowed border states to maintain slavery
6. He completely fucked over the Sioux when they rose against the U.S

I wrote my senior seminar paper on this exact subject, so feel free to ask questions if you have any.

Please elaborate on this ?

In Chicago, they just threw citizens intho the Camp Douglas prison camp

Posted: 2/13/2011 8:09:14 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
He didn't let anything like the Constitution stop him from what he felt needed to be done, thus laying the groundwork for the phrase "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

This. He was the first of the stateist presidents, he believed in an all powerful central government, and that states were to effectively be wholly owned agents of that government, he didn't believe in state or individual rights at all, he set the ground work for today's out of control fedzilla mega government. The republic started to fail with Lincoln, it just got worse from there. I'm from Michigan by the way, born, and raised.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:23:53 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
He didn't let anything like the Constitution stop him from what he felt needed to be done, thus laying the groundwork for the phrase "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

This.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:27:05 PM EDT

[#45]

as a yankee and the descendant of yankees (20th Maine - 3 brothers) FUCK LINCOLN!

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:36:44 PM EDT

[#46]

"lincoln sucked" threads draw the same supporters as the " the whites should have kept control of zimbabwe" threads.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:39:56 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
The South led the way on the curtailment of civil liberties. So fuck them. Lincoln did a good job.

Right back at You!!!

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:46:21 PM EDT

[#48]

So what do all you Southerners think of Gen Sherman?

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:50:31 PM EDT

[#49]

Lots of "conservative" presidents fucked our rights.

Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt...Reagan fuccked away guns and Teddy signed the first laws making it illegal to posess opiates, which layed the ground work for today's war on drugs

Posted: 2/13/2011 10:04:35 PM EDT

[#50]

Not sure Teddy Roosevelt would be considered conservative on his domestic policies

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why was President Lincoln a bad president? (Page 2 of 3)

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