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The Hero of Canton
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:09:40 AM EST
This is probably a good place to put this...

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:10:27 AM EST
I wonder if they made it compatible with Para mags.

If the money was right, I'd give it a shot.


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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:12:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Timinem:
I'm still waiting for the 338 necked down to 17hmr
Keep it, I want 30×173mm necked down to 2mm.




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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:23:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG

Ammo is way cheaper.


Pretty much.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:24:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Guarocuya:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG

Ammo is way cheaper.


Waaaay, way cheaper. And if you must have a .22, you can make a Timbs round. Tokarev 7.62x25mm brass, sabots, and .223 (either m193 or M855/SS109) projectiles. That would be 55grain or 62 grain projos out of pistol at 2100 FPS! Bitchen!


x25 is a great round, cheap as well, but doesn't fit in any modern handgun.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:29:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By HeVGunner:
Originally Posted By Guarocuya:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG

Ammo is way cheaper.


Waaaay, way cheaper. And if you must have a .22, you can make a Timbs round. Tokarev 7.62x25mm brass, sabots, and .223 (either m193 or M855/SS109) projectiles. That would be 55grain or 62 grain projos out of pistol at 2100 FPS! Bitchen!


x25 is a great round, cheap as well, but doesn't fit in any modern handgun.



Because modern designers are too derpy to make it work.

They'd rather reinvent the wheel with crap rounds like this.

Which, at best.. will become an obscure wildcat round nobody's ever heard of in 10 years.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:36:01 AM EST


A 7.62x25 double-stack pistol and carbine that can take the same mags would be sweet.
As long as they don't look cheap and retarded.




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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:48:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By I_Yeager_I:
Originally Posted By HeVGunner:
Originally Posted By Guarocuya:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG

Ammo is way cheaper.


Waaaay, way cheaper. And if you must have a .22, you can make a Timbs round. Tokarev 7.62x25mm brass, sabots, and .223 (either m193 or M855/SS109) projectiles. That would be 55grain or 62 grain projos out of pistol at 2100 FPS! Bitchen!


x25 is a great round, cheap as well, but doesn't fit in any modern handgun.



Because modern designers are too derpy to make it work.

They'd rather reinvent the wheel with crap rounds like this.

Which, at best.. will become an obscure wildcat round nobody's ever heard of in 10 years.


Yeah! Why invent new stuff that uses cheap components that everyone already has access to and fits common platforms people already own with a simple barrel swap when you can copy an old design that was itself a copy of an older design that doesnt have much of a following even though its been out for 50+ years.

Fuck those guys. We already have enough calibers. Tell them to quite inventing new shit unless its a 10 gauge judge called "JUDGE DREAD". Make sure they make it pump action so I can scare robbers away by without even having to fire in their general direction.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:51:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 10:51:47 AM EST by 556fiend]
Link

Rock Island 1911 style

$600

18+1 Capacity

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:54:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
This might be the best thing that's happened since .356TSW!


I fuckin' lol'd!
Things are more like they are now than they have ever been.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 10:58:01 AM EST
illl keep all my 5.7 launchers

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 11:00:06 AM EST
Since it's close to the 5.7, we can re-use the same worthless arguments, right?

Let's see if I can remember..... Oh ya. "It's basically a .22mag in a 1911" (I think I got that right.)

:)


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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 11:00:17 AM EST
Somewhere around home I have 2 .50bmg cases that I necked down when I worked at Barrett. One to hold a .223 ballistic tip projectile and the other to hold a .17 Rem Berger bullet.
Took me forever to swage the necks down and ream them out. They were good for a few laughs.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 12:02:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG

Ammo is way cheaper.


I was thinking the same thing. Somebody at my club has a Tok, I find the odd piece of brass while policing my own 9 and 45.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 12:33:28 PM EST
I really don't see a practical use for it. The whole small bullet in a pistol thing just never made sense to me.

So why do I want one really bad? And I wonder if I could get a barrel for my pistol caliber AR....
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:11:47 PM EST
Would this fit in a 9mm Glock?


And what kind of terminal effects are we talking about here? Is this fast enough to get rifle wounding effects?


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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:27:04 PM EST
Kel Tec PMR 30 in .22 wmr seems to do about the same thing to me
Of course it is kind of a rakish looking screwed together plastic thing.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:33:35 PM EST
Just how many calibers do we need again?

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:35:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By sq40:
Just how many calibers do we need again?


Two. .45ACP and .308. All the rest is just ballistic masturbation.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:37:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Well.. What does this new cartridge do that the 5.7 won't? how is it better? 44 grains at 2100fps doesn't sound all that impressive to me, or at least like it's a serious step up..


5.7x28 SS190 is 2,100FPS With a 31 grain projectile. .22TCM is the same velocity with a 42% heavier bullet. That is fucking huge. The lighter bullets should scream in .22TCM... But why use them? The requirement of using light bullets was a limitation with 5.7.

5.7 could not fit in the same gun as 9mm. .22TCM does.

5.7 is impossible to get new brass for. .22TCM uses .223Rem.

Fuck 5.7, worthless bitch cartridge.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:38:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 1:38:41 PM EST by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By HeVGunner:
x25 is a great round, cheap as well, but doesn't fit in any modern handgun.

Would probably fit in this one. Look at the OAL of the cartridge in comparison to the .45 round.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:49:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By HeVGunner:
x25 is a great round, cheap as well, but doesn't fit in any modern handgun.

Would probably fit in this one. Look at the OAL of the cartridge in comparison to the .45 round.


I'm pretty sure someone has made a 7.62X25 1911. I think someone on here.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:15:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By squirreljr:


A 7.62x25 double-stack pistol and carbine that can take the same mags would be sweet.
As long as they don't look cheap and retarded.



This. Why do manufacturers insist that we need new cartridges and calibers? 99% are essentially forgotten within a few years. Make a decent updated Tok & matching carbine and you'd have something.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:21:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
This might be the best thing that's happened since .356TSW!


And just as dead in the water down the road, too.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:27:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By DmL5:
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
44 grains at 2100fps doesn't sound all that impressive to me, or at least like it's a serious step up..

It's not a step up. The performance, even if confirmed, is virtually identical to 45 grain 5.7x28mm bullets by EA; except the design is untested, the grip will be thicker, and the magazine capacity will be smaller by necessity.



Originally Posted By goldtop:
Holy crap that's moving fast out of a handgun.

EA's S4 has been independently chronographed at 2,500+ ft/s from the Five-seveN pistol.



Yep. But the hate-on for the 5.7mm is so strong on Arfcom's GD that these little tidbits will be overlooked.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:30:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By OnyxSkyDV:
Since it's close to the 5.7, we can re-use the same worthless arguments, right?

Let's see if I can remember..... Oh ya. "It's basically a .22mag in a 1911" (I think I got that right.)

:)


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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:37:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 2:48:47 PM EST by Plumbata]
Interesting. I've always like to play with wildcats, I'll seriously think about buying one.

Face it, the 5.7 is a great varmit and target cartridge, but the few firearms that shoot it that DON'T suck cost a couple of house payments.

As for the TCM cartridge itself, a round that MAYBE can be switched between different guns with just a barrel change would sell very well.

Imagine barrel sets for say, Beretta 92's, Glock 19's or Sig 226's that uses existing magazines.

Heck, A KELTEC SUB2000 OR THE BERETTA STORM!!!!

Imagine. 5.7 performance at 1/3 the cost or less.

Two things sell a wildcat cartridge and bring it into wide acceptance. A large variety of platforms and cheap components. The 5.7 will never have that.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 2:42:35 PM EST
I prefer my rounds stacked sideways in groups of 50.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 3:24:58 PM EST
Not sure a dedicated 1911 is the best application for this-mainly because I don't want to buy a whole new gun for a new caliber. I'm interested but will wait for the Glock drop in barrels.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 3:41:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 50cal:
Somewhere around home I have 2 .50bmg cases that I necked down when I worked at Barrett. One to hold a .223 ballistic tip projectile and the other to hold a .17 Rem Berger bullet.
Took me forever to swage the necks down and ream them out. They were good for a few laughs.


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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 3:41:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 4:07:01 PM EST by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By whoanelly:
Not sure a dedicated 1911 is the best application for this-mainly because I don't want to buy a whole new gun for a new caliber. I'm interested but will wait for the Glock drop in barrels.

I don't think the cartridge will fit in the mag/magwell on most existing handguns.


http://gunsforsale.com/ghg/2011/01/20/rock-island-1911-micromag-22-tcm/

dissecting that photo in photoshop leads me to estimate that the OAL of the 22TCM to be about 2mm, or a bit more, longer than the .45acp. Incidentally that would make it about the same OAL as the 7.62x25. Plus that mag looks like it has space for a longer OAL, probably for pointed bullets.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 4:14:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 4:15:23 PM EST by whoanelly]
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By whoanelly:
Not sure a dedicated 1911 is the best application for this-mainly because I don't want to buy a whole new gun for a new caliber. I'm interested but will wait for the Glock drop in barrels.

I don't think the cartridge will fit in the mag/magwell on most existing handguns.

http://gunsforsale.com/ghg/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/IMG_1457a.jpg
http://gunsforsale.com/ghg/2011/01/20/rock-island-1911-micromag-22-tcm/

dissecting that photo in photoshop leads me to estimate that the OAL of the 22TCM to be about 2mm, or a bit more, longer than the .45acp. Incidentally that would make it about the same OAL as the 7.62x25. Plus that mag looks like it has space for a longer OAL, probably for pointed bullets.


I loaded a .45 ACP round in one of my G21 mags and there's a little bit of room to spare...I wonder if they designed this thing to fit in most .45-sized magwells.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 5:01:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 5:02:11 PM EST by manican]
A sabot round is more logical with the same barrel so you don't have to change shit.

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Link Posted: 1/21/2011 5:08:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By squirreljr:


A 7.62x25 double-stack pistol and carbine that can take the same mags would be sweet.
As long as they don't look cheap and retarded.



This. Why do manufacturers insist that we need new cartridges and calibers? 99% are essentially forgotten within a few years. Make a decent updated Tok & matching carbine and you'd have something.



They keep making all these stupid different guns too,it's pathetic.Nobody should ever want anything different for the hell of it.Nope,I bet some of these assholes want something other than a Chevy pickup and vanilla ice cream too.Fucking Commies.

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:40:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By squirreljr:
A 7.62x25 double-stack pistol and carbine that can take the same mags would be sweet.
As long as they don't look cheap and retarded.
This. Why do manufacturers insist that we need new cartridges and calibers? 99% are essentially forgotten within a few years. Make a decent updated Tok & matching carbine and you'd have something.
Product liability with crappy .mil surplus ammo compounded by ambulance chasing Democrat donating tort attorneys that sue more than the Westboro Church for any perceived hurt, injury, or bruise will prevent any new 7.62x25mm pistol from being manufactured.

So, go with what we got.
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:42:55 AM EST


Impressive .
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:44:00 AM EST


why is it pointing towards everybody

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:45:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By sq40:
Just how many calibers do we need again?


All of them
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:50:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By bcw107:
Anyone else remember .224 BOZ from about 20 years ago?

yeah, that was way better than this!
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:53:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By manican:
A sabot round is more logical with the same barrel so you don't have to change shit.

I shot a bunch of the Reed's ammo 7.62x25 Sabot rounds through my Tokarev. The accuracy was really, really bad. Like 6 inches at 7 yards. It did almost penetrate a 1/4" mild steel plate. Needed better bullets though.
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 6:13:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2011 6:17:13 AM EST by PaBambiKiller]
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
and the Horn Of Gondor is blown at the fivesevenforum

I can hear them coming with murmured chants of elite ammo elite ammo elite ammo ....


F*ck elite ammo, when they 1st started testing and selling their ammo I used to be a member of the fiveseven forum. I would send them brass, and buy some of their ammo. After time their attitude changed, and I was a customer of theirs since the start. Then I was seeing stuff on the forum how they were banning people from buying ammo from them for complaining about ammo that wasnt shipped or took weeks or even months to send ( I was not one of the banned customers) So I just said to hell with them. I used to love my PS-90, but I sold it and went with all AR plateforms instead. I still kinda miss my old PS-90 due to the weight of the rifle, the ambi controls (i`m a lefty), and the 50 round mags. What started turning me off was the limited types of ammo a regular joe could buy, the bs from elite, and the price of the mags going up, etc. So I said to myself what can I do to have more cost effect fun range time, and I sold my PS-90, Remingtom 700 LTR, and went with a Colt 6920, LMT SPM16, and Spikes Tactical Biohazard Billet, and I am building AR parts gun with some of my left over parts. Sorry to rant but I gotta call it out like I seen it. Also I posted the other day about getting Welched on ammo on another forum that was on the same forum. Just my 2 cents. Would I ever buy another PS-90? I dunno.

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 6:15:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Thuban:
This is probably a good place to put this...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5376264750_f0f193c6f5_b.jpg


Nice I think the main reason i bought a PS-90 when they 1st hit the market is because of SG1. Sounds dumb, but I think that show did the weapon a lot of favors. Just like the movie Transformers did for the New Camaro.

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 8:39:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaBambiKiller:
Originally Posted By Thuban:
This is probably a good place to put this...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5376264750_f0f193c6f5_b.jpg


Nice I think the main reason i bought a PS-90 when they 1st hit the market is because of SG1. Sounds dumb, but I think that show did the weapon a lot of favors. Just like the movie Transformers did for the New Camaro.


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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 8:52:46 AM EST
I want one!

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 9:47:16 AM EST
Since it comes with a 9mm barrel, I want one.

Honestly, though, I'd be more interested if it were a modern 7.62x25 (as many others have pointed out) with a 9mm barrel.
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 9:59:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By 556fiend:
Link

Rock Island 1911 style

$600

18+1 Capacity


Maybe in a few years. Sounds fun for sure.
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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 10:15:42 AM EST
They should neck it up to 7.62 .

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Link Posted: 1/22/2011 11:01:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
Originally Posted By squirreljr:


A 7.62x25 double-stack pistol and carbine that can take the same mags would be sweet.
As long as they don't look cheap and retarded.



This. Why do manufacturers insist that we need new cartridges and calibers? 99% are essentially forgotten within a few years. Make a decent updated Tok & matching carbine and you'd have something.



They keep making all these stupid different guns too,it's pathetic.Nobody should ever want anything different for the hell of it.Nope,I bet some of these assholes want something other than a Chevy pickup and vanilla ice cream too.Fucking Commies.


The thing is there really isn't much new under the sun in the cartridge world. The bulk of new cartridges don't do anything that older (sometimes much, much older) cartridges in existence cannot do just as well or better. With firearms it's a somewhat different story although not that much so, although I think that would change if it were easier for independent people to design guns like it used to be.

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