Navy SEAL prefers 100yd zero

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Navy SEAL prefers 100yd zero (Page 1 of 6)

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:14:47 PM EDT

As opposed to the standard 50 meter zero.

This is a snip from Kyle defoor's blog (highly recommended) concerning some zeroing and accuracy facts.

(5) The 300m zero in the military has given both the M4 and 5.56 a bad name, and here's why- Rarely are there any engagements at 300. But there are a lot at around 100. So a guy with a 300 yd zero who aims center at a target at 100 will miss high every time.

(10) It is almost impossible to find a man in the prone with moderate cover at 300 without magnification. So why would you zero at that distance? And to play devil's advocate, if I have a shot on a man at 300, and I have a 100 yd zero on my gun, all I have to do is aim slightly high, BUT...I have 300 yds to get it right, as opposed to having less than 100 yds to get it right if the situation was reversed.

(11) The 200 yd zero is called the fire and forget because of it's rise/drop of 3" from CQB distance out to 200. But what if you have a head shot at 100? Odds are you'll still miss. Also consider that rise and drop are related to the height that the optic is mounted off of the line of bore. This is a small deviation, but it still adds to the equation. I went to war with this zero and it served me well. I just now believe that the 100 yd zero is the best as it has a flatter trajectory from CQB distance to 100 yds. You'll also never be off more than the distance between line of bore and line of sight (on average 2.75"). I also like it because of ....

(12) Most people can SEE a head (or a 6" circle) at 100 yds, the AK-47's bottom zero is ...100, all snipers bottom out dope at...100.

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/12/12-days-of-zero.html#comments

He does have a convincing argument, and I have found a hundred yard zero about perfect for shooting prairie dogs from 25 to 250 yards.

Check the link and tell me what ya think.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:18:19 PM EDT

[#1]

100yd = TIER 1 Zero

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:19:02 PM EDT

[#2]

IIRC, LAV prefers a 100yd zero as well.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:19:39 PM EDT

[#3]

I always zero at 100 yards, even my pocket pistols

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:21:32 PM EDT

[#4]

fuck me ive been tier 1 all along and never even knew it

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:21:33 PM EDT

[#5]

The B-6-7* prefers a 50/200 zero.

*not Tier 1

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:22:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Works for me.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:22:39 PM EDT

[#7]

sigh. Arfcom gd

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:25:30 PM EDT

[#8]

I thought the IBZ gave a 2.5 inch variance from bore to sight plane out to 250 yards? I can't imagine that would allow for a lot of high misses.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:25:59 PM EDT

[#9]

I was trained to 100 yard zero.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:26:07 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I always zero at 100 yards, even my pocket pistols

Too close for me, I only sight my derringers at 100, everything else is 1,000.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:27:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Eeenterresting...

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:27:23 PM EDT

[#12]

Thats all I've ever done, pretty much for those reasons.

I seriously doubt a 300 yards shot would hold up in court.

Bill

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:28:26 PM EDT

[#13]

He's not professional enough...............I zero at 300, even my ccw.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:28:42 PM EDT

[#14]

Or you can learn where your bullet is going to be at most conceivable distances.

The zero we used in the IDF was a 45 / 250 zero with a proprietary reticle 4x ACOG, and I still remember it a few years after my discharge.

25m: -4 cm
45m: 0 cm
100m: 7 cm
200m: 10 cm
250m: 0
300m: -20cm

Is it really that hard?

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:30:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
IIRC, LAV prefers a 100yd zero as well.

Would the LAV say 100 yards or 100 meters?

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:32:48 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
IIRC, LAV prefers a 100yd zero as well.

Would the LAV say 100 yards or 100 meters?

I think it depends on if your printer is an HP or a sony.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:33:45 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I always zero at 100 yards, even my pocket pistols

Too close for me, I only sight my derringers at 100, everything else is 1,000.

Vaughn, didn't think airsoft shot that far!!!

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:34:15 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Or you can learn where your bullet is going to be at most conceivable distances.

Is it really that hard?

Nope. I noticed the writer never said HE had a problem hitting things with his 200 yard zero, only that "somebody" would.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:34:16 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Or you can learn where your bullet is going to be at most conceivable distances.

The zero we used in the IDF was a 45 / 250 zero with a proprietary reticle 4x ACOG, and I still remember it a few years after my discharge.

25m: -4 cm
45m: 0 cm
100m: 7 cm
200m: 10 cm
250m: 0
300m: -20cm

Is it really that hard?

Or instead of having to remember numbers in your head you could just have the gun zeroed at a closer, more practical range and pretty much put metal on meat and be able to make hits out to 300.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:35:21 PM EDT

[#20]

It doesn't matter, these things come and go. Know your gun.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:39:03 PM EDT

[#21]

Navy SEAL or grunt... I don't care WHO said it.

100yd zero, IBZ, RIBZ... It doesn't really matter, it's half of one and six dozen of another...or however the hell it goes.

Know your hold-over/under at range, and you're golden.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:39:49 PM EDT

[#22]

My dope for a 50 yard zero. 50= 0.0, 100= +1.5. 150 = +1.7, 200 = +.5, 250 = -2.4 A human head is 9" high by 6" wide...I just measured the kids. Now if you aim right below the nose you can get hits all the way out past 300 meters. And a 50 yard zero is much easier to verify. I have hit 6" targets with this zero at 200 no problem with an EO Tech. I swear if a Seal said you should only scratch your balls with your left hands. This whole sight would only scratch their balls left handed.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:41:22 PM EDT

[#23]

Is this the opinion of all SEALs or just one?

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:42:26 PM EDT

[#24]

In Before The Chest Thumping And Seal Leg Humping Really Gets Started

ETA: Damn, I was way too late.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:42:43 PM EDT

[#25]

I agree with him... With many firearms, a 25 yard zero will correspond closely with a 100 yard zero.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:44:50 PM EDT

[#26]

I read threads like this and always think "Damn, it has been a long time since I've bothered with irons."

The 50 meter zero probably has more to do with building ranges economically and standardized training than combat effectiveness.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:47:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
fuck me ive been tier 1 all along and never even knew it

Me too, well, the truth is, we're tier 0 and the tier 1 guys copied off us.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:53:06 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
fuck me ive been tier 1 all along and never even knew it

Me too, well, the truth is, we're tier 0 and the tier 1 guys copied off us.

Me three, not because I have any military in my background but do have plenty of football, so 100 yards has always seemed so right.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:55:20 PM EDT

[#29]

What the fuck ever happened to 8/3 -2?

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:58:01 PM EDT

[#30]

I took a pistol course at Blackwater a few years back. He was a great instructor. I see he teaches a 1 day carbine course, I might have to take a road trip soon.

Posted: 1/18/2011 4:59:08 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
fuck me ive been tier 1 all along and never even knew it

Me too, well, the truth is, we're tier 0 and the tier 1 guys copied off us.

Me three, not because I have any military in my background but do have plenty of football, so 100 yards has always seemed so right.

I just always figured that a 100 yard zero would be the flattest trajectory for any range I'm shooting a non precision rifle at.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:00:05 PM EDT

[#32]

Zero this zero that. That's why I rock an Mk-19. Ain't got time for aimin'.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:00:20 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

What the fuck ever happened to 8/3 -2?

And the 36 yrd BZO?
Yes I know the M4 and A2 are different animals.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:05:37 PM EDT

[#34]

Strange, since November I've used a 100m zero for my Sig 556 Classic Patrol. Mainly because the diopters are made for a 100 meter zero.

100m or 100 yards, close enough for a carbine.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:06:36 PM EDT

[#35]

Theres a lot of good points he makes.

I still think the 50/200 isnt bad though.

That could change as I learn more about shooting at distances.

(I'm lucky to punch past 100

)

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:08:07 PM EDT

[#36]

Careful, boys & girls... LOGIC ahead. Don't blow a gasket!

Since, it seems to me that the RIBZ gives the opportunity for the 50-yd zero, and the 100-yd zero.

And since the Arfcom way is to "get both."

Therefore, it would seem that arfcom would be all in favor of the RIBZ.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:08:08 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Zero this zero that. That's why I rock an Mk-19. Ain't got time for aimin'.

You got time to duck?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:08:26 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I always zero at 100 yards, even my pocket pistols

Too close for me, I only sight my derringers at 100, everything else is 1,000.

Vaughn, didn't think airsoft shot that far!!!

Only the Airsoft assigned to SEALS!

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:18:21 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

fuck me ive been tier 1 all along and never even knew it

This. I'm zero'd at 100 yards cause that's how far my targets are away from my shooting bench.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:20:23 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

What the fuck ever happened to 8/3 -2?

That has worked for us for a long time.

But hey, if BZO works for them, good on them. If I find something that works for me, I'll stick with it... as long as in the end I can hit on (two-legged) target.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:24:08 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Is this the opinion of all SEALs or just one?

Dunno about SEALs but I have heard of the 100yd zero being used by other "high tier" organizations.

I use it, but that has more to do with "I grew up doing it that way."

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:24:30 PM EDT

[#42]

As soon as I start shooting at the same stuff SEALs shoot at, under their kind of conditions, I'll think about changing from the 50/200 zero that works well for MY shooting conditions.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:26:42 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Is it really that hard?

...so a sniper qualified former member of DEVGRU who has spent his life since he was out teaching people to effectively use the carbine for serious social purposes says that people miss shots in combat because of a fucked up zero...and you want to argue about it.

Good luck with that.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:30:30 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is this the opinion of all SEALs or just one?

Dunno about SEALs but I have heard of the 100yd zero being used by other "high tier" organizations.

I use it, but that has more to do with "I grew up doing it that way."

I just looked at the 50 and 100 yard zero differences using my Hornady 75gr load at 2642fps. There isn't a big difference between the two; the 50 yard zero gives you a slightly longer range before the bullet drops -3" or more. Both are better than the 25m zero from a usability standpoint.

[ETA] I'll stick with the 50m zero for my battle rifles to stay consistent. It makes it easier when engaging terrorist coke cans at CQB distances.

Posted: 1/18/2011 5:31:34 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Nope. I noticed the writer never said HE had a problem hitting things with his 200 yard zero, only that "somebody" would.

I've personally been on the range with Kyle when he's gone over the rationale for the 100 yard zero. One demonstration involved a pair of AR15 sights attached to a hunk of wood. The AI went 100 yards down range and proned out behind some cover. We then took turns trying to draw a bead on the AI who was pointing a block of wood with irons back at us.

Everybody who went through that little demonstration understood the point of the 100 yard zero.