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rasanders22
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:45:43 AM
Well?
FMJshooter
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:47:31 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 1:47:50 AM by FMJshooter]
Corporal gets to do NCO style work for E4 pay. E4 gets to shoot stuff and make privates do his work for E4 pay.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:49:07 AM

Originally Posted By FMJshooter:
Corporal gets to do NCO style work for E4 pay. E4 gets to shoot stuff and make privates do his work for E4 pay.


Good summary - all hail the power of the sham shield.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:51:04 AM

Originally Posted By FMJshooter:
Corporal gets to do NCO style work for E4 pay. E4 gets to shoot stuff and make privates do his work for E4 pay.


Yep.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:52:49 AM
Specialist is the best rank in the Army. Corporal is the worst.

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ArmaNotSoLite
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:54:51 AM
Normally you get Corporal if you end up as an E4 team leader. Our sometimes, you don't. It all depends. Corporals generally get the shit end of any NCO related detail.
I drink only the blood of my enemies! And the occasional strawberry Yoohoo. -Sarge

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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:54:59 AM
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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:56:22 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 1:56:46 AM by Falcon09]

Originally Posted By ArmaNotSoLite:
Normally you get Corporal if you end up as an E4 team leader. Our sometimes, you don't. It all depends. Corporals generally get the shit end of any NCO related detail.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 1:58:50 AM
Corporal went to PLDC.
There will always be an 82 Abn Dv because it lives in the hearts of men & somewhere young men will dare the challenge to "stand up & hook up" & know that moment of pride & strength which is its reward
ArmaNotSoLite
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:00:02 AM
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Specialist is the best rank in the Army. Corporal is the worst.

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I disagree with this in one small detail. Specialist (P) is by far the best rank in the Army. NCO's treat you good because they know that you'll be one of them shortly, and SPC and below treat you good because they know you'll be an NCO soon. However, you aren't officially an NCO yet, so you're spared the shitty details. Corporal, however is still the shittiest rank in the Army.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:01:13 AM

Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Corporal went to PLDC.

In a world where we have SGTs who haven't been to WLC - and not as conditional promotions, but as perminant rank - that's pretty unlikely...

I was in a unit once that made a SPC into a CPL at Friday formation just so they'd have an NCO to pull vehicle-search detail that weekend...
Pending....
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:03:00 AM
Watching the same movie three times in a row as "courtesy NCO" is far better than defending a battalion's worth of M1 tanks in the rain with a pick handle.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:24:16 AM
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Corporal went to PLDC.

In a world where we have SGTs who haven't been to WLC - and not as conditional promotions, but as perminant rank - that's pretty unlikely...

I was in a unit once that made a SPC into a CPL at Friday formation just so they'd have an NCO to pull vehicle-search detail that weekend...


Not in my unit - when there was no NCO available for a detail they took the senior SPC4 & put him in charge (& held him accountable).
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:26:03 AM
Simple answer.
Every Private wants to be a Spec 4
No Private wants to be a corporal,,,,
ArmaNotSoLite
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Posted: 11/27/2010 2:33:10 AM
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Corporal went to PLDC.

In a world where we have SGTs who haven't been to WLC - and not as conditional promotions, but as perminant rank - that's pretty unlikely...

I was in a unit once that made a SPC into a CPL at Friday formation just so they'd have an NCO to pull vehicle-search detail that weekend...


Well, you don't need WLC to become a permanent SGT. You need WLC to be promoted to E6. E6 needs BNCOC for 7, and that's why you need ANCOC (Advanced Non Commissioned Officer Course) for E8. Your unit generally just sends you off as soon as possible to get it out of the way.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:00:23 AM
Ok...I loved being a CPL. My goal was to make it fast so I would be warm for guard duty. I froze my ass off in Germany walking guard duty. As an NCO CPL, I stayed warmer for that!!!

Guard duty sucks! Being cold on guard sucks worse!!
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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:05:03 AM
Originally Posted By XxSLASHERxX:
Ok...I loved being a CPL. My goal was to make it fast so I would be warm for guard duty. I froze my ass off in Germany walking guard duty. As an NCO CPL, I stayed warmer for that!!!

Guard duty sucks! Being cold on guard sucks worse!!


Being cold & wet suck worse than both.
There will always be an 82 Abn Dv because it lives in the hearts of men & somewhere young men will dare the challenge to "stand up & hook up" & know that moment of pride & strength which is its reward
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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:07:40 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 3:10:05 AM by ArmyInfantryVet]
Hahaha. I had the CO tell me when I was a Spec 4, that Specialists RUN the company. They smoke the privates and all that shit.

But a Specialist is a junior NCO, a corporal is a NCO.

Ugh! I got out as a Spec 4 team leader, when I should have been an E5 for my job.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:09:26 AM
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Specialist is the best rank in the Army. Corporal is the worst.


Yep.

I hated being a Private, loved Specialist and had no desire whatsoever to go corporal.

PLDC for THAT? No thanks.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:16:27 AM
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By shocktrp:
Corporal went to PLDC.

In a world where we have SGTs who haven't been to WLC - and not as conditional promotions, but as perminant rank - that's pretty unlikely...

I was in a unit once that made a SPC into a CPL at Friday formation just so they'd have an NCO to pull vehicle-search detail that weekend...
And with no orders...he is just a CPL in his unit........


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Posted: 11/27/2010 3:43:30 AM
What is the Difference between a Corporal and a General? Well a General doesn't think he's a Corporal.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:15:12 AM
SPC = overpaid private

CPL = underpaid sergeant


I still have my SP5 promotion orders in my desk somewhere.....
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:16:50 AM
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Specialist is the best rank in the Army. Corporal is the worst.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


My son told me that "E-4 Promotable" was the worst rank in the Army. All the work and responsibilty of a NCO but you are still a Spec-4. At least as a Corporal you got the recognition of being a NCO. E-4 Promotable you get nothing but the work.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:26:06 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 9:27:17 AM by packinheavy]
Sounds similar to our old Buck Sergeant. Both Senior Airman and Buck Sergeants were E-4s. You would get Buck Sergeant after a certain period of time and training(I am not sure of the requirements). They did away with it before I enlisted.

I only see about 1 Corporal for every 30 or so Specialists over here(very rough estimate). I always wondered how it worked.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:28:30 AM
Originally Posted By rasanders22:
Well?


not much other than a corporal gets reviewed as a nco and a specialist doesnt. if you want to know the truth corporal is a bs rank, specialists get promoted to corporal if there arent enough e-5s running around for CQ and staff duty.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:42:50 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 9:48:58 AM by AeroE]
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Sounds similar to our old Buck Sergeant. Both Senior Airman and Buck Sergeants were E-4s. You would get Buck Sergeant after a certain period of time and training(I am not sure of the requirements). They did away with it before I enlisted.

I only see about 1 Corporal for every 30 or so Specialists over here(very rough estimate). I always wondered how it worked.


I can tell you from first hand experience that E-4 Sergeant was superior to Airman rank. Hands down.

An E-5 Staff Sgt had a crappier deal in most ways, one being assignments to CQ and put in charge of mop slinging in the shop.

In our shop, there was no effective difference in the roles and responsibilities of E-4's, E-5's, and E-6's. Technically we were all on equal footing as no one had experience working on the equipment or airplane. We operated 24/7, so the NCO's had to be spread across all shifts and days. E-7's warmed a chair and dealt with production control. E-8's were in charge of unnecessary rearrangement of the equipment causing extensive breakdowns. The one E-9 was just "around"; I'm not sure exactly what he was assigned to do. The squadron office was a more or less parallel operation; the senior NCO there was mostly concerned with daily room inspections in the dorms. He certainly never took on a leadership role around the shops.


20 January 2013 - The End of an Error

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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:46:00 AM
Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Watching the same movie three times in a row as "courtesy NCO" is far better than defending a battalion's worth of M1 tanks in the rain with a pick handle.


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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:47:16 AM

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Sounds similar to our old Buck Sergeant. Both Senior Airman and Buck Sergeants were E-4s. You would get Buck Sergeant after a certain period of time and training(I am not sure of the requirements). They did away with it before I enlisted.

I only see about 1 Corporal for every 30 or so Specialists over here(very rough estimate). I always wondered how it worked.


I can tell you from first hand experience that E-4 Sergeant was superior to Airman rank. Hands down.

An E-5 Staff Sgt had a crappier deal in most ways, one being assignments to CQ and put in charge of mop slinging in the shop.

In our shop, there was no effective difference in the roles and responsibilities of E-4's, E-5's, and E-6's. Technically we were all on equal footing as no one had experience working on the equipment or airplane. We operated 24/7, so the NCO's had to be spread across all shifts and days.


Any idea why they did away with it?
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:49:30 AM
Wow, shit must have changed since I was in (84-87)

I was a spec 4 , never got any shit better than a private would get as far as details and the like.

I always wanted to be a Corporal so I would have to pull guard duty anymore.

Being Sgt of the guard is a helluva lot better than pullin guard
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:56:58 AM
Originally Posted By packinheavy:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Sounds similar to our old Buck Sergeant. Both Senior Airman and Buck Sergeants were E-4s. You would get Buck Sergeant after a certain period of time and training(I am not sure of the requirements). They did away with it before I enlisted.

I only see about 1 Corporal for every 30 or so Specialists over here(very rough estimate). I always wondered how it worked.


I can tell you from first hand experience that E-4 Sergeant was superior to Airman rank. Hands down.

An E-5 Staff Sgt had a crappier deal in most ways, one being assignments to CQ and put in charge of mop slinging in the shop.

In our shop, there was no effective difference in the roles and responsibilities of E-4's, E-5's, and E-6's. Technically we were all on equal footing as no one had experience working on the equipment or airplane. We operated 24/7, so the NCO's had to be spread across all shifts and days.


Any idea why they did away with it?


Nope, that happened after I got out. We did have the whole Senior Airman thing and "below the zone" promotions at the time.

I suppose my entire enlistment was during a fast transition. It was post Viet Nam, yet many on duty had been drafted (or nearly drafted in my case, I had a lottery number but the draft was stopped before it was activated), the greater majority had been in Viet Nam or Thailand or both, the Women's Air Force was integrated, the Senior Airman rank was added, even the uniforms changed from khaki to blue and the fatigues changed from solid to camoflage. We still had a few Warrant Officers.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 10:01:09 AM
A Corporal can give Lawful Orders to a Spec/5 or any other Specialist for that matter.
They have what's considered Hard Stripes. They are truly NCO's; they are in the proverbial Chain of Command. They may be on the bottom rung as far as being an NCO is concerned, but a Corporal can still give orders.

Specialists, on the other hand, while they are technically proficient in their MOS, are never put in a Leadership Position. Those are reserved for NCO's. That's also the big difference between ANY NCO with stripes and a Specialist; Leadership. A Corporal can [Lead a bunch of Specialists somewhere for a task of almost any kind, But a Spec/7 (if they still have them) doesn't have the authority to order a Corporal to change a Duty Roster if the Corporal doesn't want to.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 10:15:24 AM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 10:16:37 AM by SteelonSteel]
I was a CPL back in the day as an MP team leader. Was always a pain in the ass.

I can remember one time having it out with the first sgt when he wanted me to pull KP because we were short on non rates. NCO's don't pull KP. This was the NG, I told him fine, I'll go home and he'll be short one more. Good thing it was the pretend army.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 10:25:14 AM
Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
A Corporal can give Lawful Orders to a Spec/5 or any other Specialist for that matter.
They have what's considered Hard Stripes. They are truly NCO's; they are in the proverbial Chain of Command. They may be on the bottom rung as far as being an NCO is concerned, but a Corporal can still give orders.

Specialists, on the other hand, while they are technically proficient in their MOS, are never put in a Leadership Position. Those are reserved for NCO's. That's also the big difference between ANY NCO with stripes and a Specialist; Leadership. A Corporal can [Lead a bunch of Specialists somewhere for a task of almost any kind, But a Spec/7 (if they still have them) doesn't have the authority to order a Corporal to change a Duty Roster if the Corporal doesn't want to.




I thought they did away with all spec ranks in the army above E4?


I was on the E5 list a loooong time, like 4 years and was slowly working my way up as people retired from my unit. Then they made a change so that BT wide if anyone was on the list ahead of you in the entire BT, they could take the slot in your unit. Thats when I decided not to reenlist. It was either stay an E4 or have to drive down to southern MD every month for drill and I didnt want to do that.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 10:34:21 AM
I kinda liked being a corporal


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Posted: 11/27/2010 10:51:50 AM
Here is a picture of my son being pinned with his Corporal stripes by his Pl in Iraq. Another Sp4 and himself were "promoted" to Corporal that day. Both these guys made E-5 Sergeant a couple of months later. From what I was told for all practicable purposes their duties did not change from being E-4 Promotable to Corporal to Sergeant.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 11:02:46 AM

Originally Posted By Flash66:
Here is a picture of my son being pinned with his Corporal stripes by his Pl in Iraq. Another Sp4 and himself were "promoted" to Corporal that day. Both these guys made E-5 Sergeant a couple of months later. From what I was told for all practicable purposes their duties did not change from being E-4 Promotable to Corporal to Sergeant.

http://images2b.photo.walgreens.com/232323232%7Ffp5339%3A%3Enu%3D325%3A%3E2%3B5%3E2%3A9%3EWSNRCG%3D3544%3B45%3B%3A%3A328nu0mrj

Pinned? Velcro'd! LOL! I remember getting the pins of my E4/SP4 rank smashed into my neck and head by my Captain. "I gave you this rank and I'll damn sure take it away if you fuck up" yup, I remember that clearly. LOL!


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Posted: 11/27/2010 11:13:13 AM
Originally Posted By GeorgeCostanza:
What is the Difference between a Corporal and a General? Well a General doesn't think he's a Corporal.


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Posted: 11/27/2010 12:32:12 PM
How long does it generally take to reach Specialist?
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Posted: 11/27/2010 12:41:51 PM

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
A Corporal can give Lawful Orders to a Spec/5 or any other Specialist for that matter.
They have what's considered Hard Stripes. They are truly NCO's; they are in the proverbial Chain of Command. They may be on the bottom rung as far as being an NCO is concerned, but a Corporal can still give orders.

Specialists, on the other hand, while they are technically proficient in their MOS, are never put in a Leadership Position. Those are reserved for NCO's. That's also the big difference between ANY NCO with stripes and a Specialist; Leadership. A Corporal can [Lead a bunch of Specialists somewhere for a task of almost any kind, But a Spec/7 (if they still have them) doesn't have the authority to order a Corporal to change a Duty Roster if the Corporal doesn't want to.

Spec 5 and Spec 6 rank was abolished in 1985 and I believe that Spec 7 was abolished in 1978.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 12:42:55 PM
Originally Posted By AbleArcher:
How long does it generally take to reach Specialist?


2 years, give or take. For some guys I met, A LOT of give.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 12:47:46 PM
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Sounds similar to our old Buck Sergeant. Both Senior Airman and Buck Sergeants were E-4s. You would get Buck Sergeant after a certain period of time and training(I am not sure of the requirements). They did away with it before I enlisted.


The changed happened while I was in.

Airmen were eligible for E4 NCO if they had their 5 skill level in their AFSC, had 4 years TIS and graduated PME. The move was to reduce the number of NCOs Air Force wide. IIRC the last E4 Sergeant was promoted on 1 May 91.

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Posted: 11/27/2010 12:48:20 PM
Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
A Corporal can give Lawful Orders to a Spec/5 or any other Specialist for that matter.
They have what's considered Hard Stripes. They are truly NCO's; they are in the proverbial Chain of Command. They may be on the bottom rung as far as being an NCO is concerned, but a Corporal can still give orders.

Specialists, on the other hand, while they are technically proficient in their MOS, are never put in a Leadership Position. Those are reserved for NCO's. That's also the big difference between ANY NCO with stripes and a Specialist; Leadership. A Corporal can [Lead a bunch of Specialists somewhere for a task of almost any kind, But a Spec/7 (if they still have them) doesn't have the authority to order a Corporal to change a Duty Roster if the Corporal doesn't want to.



That's pretty much the jist of it..
Cpl's are considered NCO's (Jr) while Specialist's are not.
You don't normally see any Corporals outside of Combat Arms. Normally Inf.

And they did get rid of Spec 5's Spec 6" and Spec 7's. Back in my early days, you saw a lot of them working the Hospital and dental MOS's where hard leadership skills were not needed, just a solid mastery of the MOS.

We had a lot of Spec 5 gunners on the tank.. as soon as they moved up to Tank Commander they got Hard Strip Sgt.

The Army got smart and got rid of the Spec5 and up rank. The theory was if you were a Spec5, you had been in the Army long enough that you should be considered a NCO and a leader and should not be shamming as an overpaid private with no responsibilities.

If you keep you nose clean and show you can perform in your MOS, you should make E-4 in 2 yrs (Combat Arms) The Branches outside that may take a bit longer.

It's no big secret that Combat Arms MOS's have a tendency to promote faster as they have more slots to fill based on there TO&E.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 4:25:07 PM
Originally Posted By AbleArcher:
How long does it generally take to reach Specialist?


26 months.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 4:51:13 PM
It's been used to varying degrees during different time periods.

I was in '88-'92 and saw very few Corporals in Cavalry and didn't know any when I transferred to an Infantry battalion.
In the Cav it was given to E-4's holding an E-5 slot, so mostly went to SP4's serving as Bradley gunners as that was considered an E-5 position. I went to a light infantry Bn after that so don't know if they applied the same rules to Mech Infantry. I think different MOS may have different experiences as it was up to leadership style of commanders as to whether they implemented the use of Corporals. It wasn't an automatic "linear promotion", it was something you were selected for (more of a punishment in my opinion). Most sergeants back then never served as Corporals.

I have to agree, SP4 was best rank (Army changed from SP4 to SPC sometime around 1989). You had enough time and experience to merit respect and didn't get picked for all the "crap" details, but not an NCO so couldn't be given any real responsibility. As a Corporal you became a junior NCO so were being critiqued and criticized for everything you did as part of your "leadership training". You could be a Corporal in about 2 years if things went your way, but it usually took 5 or 6 to make sergeant, so got the NCO treatment without having nearly as much experience.
Even so, it was still possible to make sergeant in under 4 years, though not too common. I made it in 3 and am first to admit I could have benefitted from more experience - was Reserves before active duty so had extra time in service/time in rank that helped me get promoted, but Reserve years don't equal active duty years when it comes to gaining experience (peacetime Reserves back then- with all the Reserve/Guard deployments over the last 10 years I'm sure that gap has closed quite a bit).

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LuvBUSHmaster
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Posted: 11/27/2010 5:10:57 PM
Silly question, do you get any special rank upgrade if you are an Eagle Scout?

I heard that you do when I made Eagle Scout when I was 16 or so and considered going into the military many many many moons ago...

Just curious what that would rank that would be and if that really is the case.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 5:16:54 PM
Corporal is an E4 in a leadership position. I had the honor of serving in both ranks. SPC FTW.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 5:45:43 PM
[Last Edit: 11/27/2010 5:49:17 PM by Lightning_P38]
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Specialist is the best rank in the Army. Corporal is the worst.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


QFT.

In the Signal Corp Cpl's are fairly rare, in my four years in I saw two of them, neither made CPL in a signal unit, they had been in non Signal units prior to being assigned back to Signal Bn's.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 5:50:07 PM
Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
Silly question, do you get any special rank upgrade if you are an Eagle Scout?

I heard that you do when I made Eagle Scout when I was 16 or so and considered going into the military many many many moons ago...

Just curious what that would rank that would be and if that really is the case.


If I am not mistaken an Eagle Scout can go in directly as a PFC (E3), in the Army.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 6:06:41 PM
Sucked big time when the powers to be phased out the Spec 5s and Spec 6s. YMMV of course.
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Posted: 11/27/2010 6:10:41 PM
I did real good with promotions. I was in from 75-79 active.

E-3 9 MONTHS

SP4 15 MONTHS

CPL 18 MONTHS

SGT 24 MONTHS

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Scoring in the top 1% of your MOS helps you get promoted faster.


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LuvBUSHmaster
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Posted: 11/27/2010 6:11:21 PM
Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
Silly question, do you get any special rank upgrade if you are an Eagle Scout?

I heard that you do when I made Eagle Scout when I was 16 or so and considered going into the military many many many moons ago...

Just curious what that would rank that would be and if that really is the case.


If I am not mistaken an Eagle Scout can go in directly as a PFC (E3), in the Army.


Ah, ok. Thank you very much!
Now I know.
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