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hartzpad
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:05:44 PM
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?
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only1asterisk
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:06:22 PM
Taxes
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:06:42 PM
anything business related is always higher
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:08:36 PM
Because our elected leaders are taxing the shit out of it.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:08:52 PM
I'm guessing taxes or regulations because back in the 90s diesel was cheaper than gas.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:09:38 PM
Seems like diesel began to consistently cost more than gas about the time ULSD was phased in. Maybe it's the ULSD.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:11:39 PM
Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Seems like diesel began to consistently cost more than gas about the time ULSD was phased in. Maybe it's the ULSD.


I believe this is the reason. Price jumped when they mandated the Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:12:15 PM
Tractor trailers burn diesel, so the government taxes the fuck out of it.

The weakened dollar doesn't help, but that raises the price of gasoline right along with diesel.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:15:33 PM
[Last Edit: 11/9/2010 6:17:49 PM by EMD]
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's.

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:25:48 PM
Because it is better.

What do you expect for GD?
mjcOH1
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:29:03 PM
[Last Edit: 11/9/2010 6:30:34 PM by mjcOH1]

global economy, global demand -

http://www.biodieselathome.net/Diesel_Fuel_Prices/
"a lot of people are now wondering why diesel fuel costs higher than gasoline. The primary reason is the increasing global demand. ...More than 50 percent of new registrations for 2007 were diesel-consuming vehicles. In India, the same trend applies: the numbers of new vehicles sold have doubled in five years, and 30 percent of which is diesel-powered. This percentage is projected to reach 50 percent by 2010. In China, the increasing demand for diesel fuel is in direct proportion with its economy.


http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Prices.aspx
"Refineries in the US have been operating at 90% of their production capacity for more than a decade. Tight worldwide refining capacity and competing international demand for refined distillates affect the price of diesel fuel in the US...."
Meadowmuffin
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:30:32 PM
What is your fuel efficiency. It should be a lot higher than any gasoline counterparts.
Sylvan
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:32:39 PM
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD

hicap
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:35:25 PM
supply and demand?
English - Do you speak it M!F???
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:37:36 PM
Originally Posted By mjcOH1:

global economy, global demand -

http://www.biodieselathome.net/Diesel_Fuel_Prices/
"a lot of people are now wondering why diesel fuel costs higher than gasoline. The primary reason is the increasing global demand. ...More than 50 percent of new registrations for 2007 were diesel-consuming vehicles. In India, the same trend applies: the numbers of new vehicles sold have doubled in five years, and 30 percent of which is diesel-powered. This percentage is projected to reach 50 percent by 2010. In China, the increasing demand for diesel fuel is in direct proportion with its economy.


http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Prices.aspx
"Refineries in the US have been operating at 90% of their production capacity for more than a decade. Tight worldwide refining capacity and competing international demand for refined distillates affect the price of diesel fuel in the US...."


Gonna have to call you out on the last quote there. I do cold air projects for refineries, and you can tell by how much air the crackers consume what they're running at. Rarely do they run at 90%. They run in constant flux dictated by market price. The local Marathon refinery just put in a new ULS unit and they barely run it.

Same thing goes on with the drillers. Many a time I have seen a crew get sent back to the shack because "that rig ain't runing today".
jlmontgomery
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:39:28 PM
It's because every refinery had to spend multiple millions upgrading or building in their refineries to meet the ULSD regulations. They of course pass the costs to the buyers.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:43:12 PM
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD



Uh yeah. I work in the industry.
sburggsx
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:44:20 PM
How about the fact the primary user of gasoline is the every day citizen. They get pissed off about 5 cent raises in gas.

Diesel on the other hand is used by business (truckers etc). They can raise this higher, the companies pay, then pass the cost onto the consumer. (Every day citizens) Then there's taxes......
mjcOH1
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:44:51 PM
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By mjcOH1:

global economy, global demand -

http://www.biodieselathome.net/Diesel_Fuel_Prices/
"a lot of people are now wondering why diesel fuel costs higher than gasoline. The primary reason is the increasing global demand. ...More than 50 percent of new registrations for 2007 were diesel-consuming vehicles. In India, the same trend applies: the numbers of new vehicles sold have doubled in five years, and 30 percent of which is diesel-powered. This percentage is projected to reach 50 percent by 2010. In China, the increasing demand for diesel fuel is in direct proportion with its economy.


http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Prices.aspx
"Refineries in the US have been operating at 90% of their production capacity for more than a decade. Tight worldwide refining capacity and competing international demand for refined distillates affect the price of diesel fuel in the US...."


Gonna have to call you out on the last quote there. I do cold air projects for refineries, and you can tell by how much air the crackers consume what they're running at. Rarely do they run at 90%. They run in constant flux dictated by market price. The local Marathon refinery just put in a new ULS unit and they barely run it.

Same thing goes on with the drillers. Many a time I have seen a crew get sent back to the shack because "that rig ain't runing today".


Your experience, maybe. But the DOE confirms US refinery capacity utilization rate of 88% on average so far this year.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_unc_dcu_nus_m.htm

Similar rates on the DOE site going back 10 years (historical link is at the DOE page above).
c130montana
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:57:05 PM
I remember $.17 diesel & $.24 gas.
About the only diesel contraptions were Semi's & farm equipment.


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The Ol' Crew Chief: "Well, Loo-tennet, when Ya get down to the end of the runway & pull-back on the contol column, We'll all find-out together!"
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Posted: 11/9/2010 7:04:48 PM
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD



Uh yeah. I work in the industry.


As a petro-chemical engineer?
LightningII
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Posted: 11/9/2010 7:55:47 PM
laws of supply anf demand.
it's as simple as that.
Sylvan
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:02:40 PM
Originally Posted By LightningII:
laws of supply anf demand.
it's as simple as that.

Not quite.
Kerosine and Jet-A are the same thing (minus dye), yet their cost is different.

Minor trivia. the "K" in KC-130, KC-135 and KC-10 is for Kerosine.
Diesel is pretty much the same thing as well.
The difference is taxes and refining cost for the ULSD.
It is government manipulation to account for the deltas.
Diesel is an easier cut for baseline refining. Less cracking.
SPECTRE
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:13:55 PM
Originally Posted By LightningII:
laws of supply anf demand.
it's as simple as that.


Whew, thanks.......for a second I thought taxes had something to do with it.
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paul_the_welder
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:20:03 PM
Originally Posted By c130montana:
I remember $.17 diesel & $.24 gas.
About the only diesel contraptions were Semi's & farm equipment.


The Ol' Crew Chief


How freakin old are you?
Ironmanshak
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:23:35 PM
I work in an oil refinery. It's all about supply and demand and government regulations.

1 - Supply & demand - Europe & the rest of the world now uses much more diesel than they did before (demand has gone up). Some say diesel demand is growing at twice the rate of gasoline - Diesel Demand

2 - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel - Thanks to our wonderful politicians and our bureaucratic EPA which has required oil refineries to remove more sulphur from diesel fuel. It is very expensive to remove sulphur out of motor fuels. It involves hydrogen and a lot of expensive process equipment and catalyst.
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:24:13 PM
Originally Posted By LightningII:
laws of supply anf demand.
it's as simple as that.

I guess even the stupid is bigger in Texas.
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.

The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
Combat_Jack
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Posted: 11/9/2010 8:25:07 PM
Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
Originally Posted By c130montana:
I remember $.17 diesel & $.24 gas.
About the only diesel contraptions were Semi's & farm equipment.


The Ol' Crew Chief


How freakin old are you?


That's when people made $0.50 an hour...

Gasoline is more affordable now than it was in the 1960's.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 3:04:57 AM

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD


so government and government? That is the answer to all things priced high and why.

only1asterisk
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Posted: 11/10/2010 3:08:48 AM
Originally Posted By JasonblkZ06:

so government and government? That is the answer to all things priced high and why.



Taxes and regulation. Everything from gas to HFCS.

Shelley Seale wuz here!
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Posted: 11/10/2010 3:44:44 AM
Originally Posted By JasonblkZ06:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD


so government and government? That is the answer to all things priced high and why.



The answer to that question depends on who's in office.
Right now there's a democrat in office so its all of their fault in the eyes of a republican.

When a republican's in office, it's then called capitalism to a republican.


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Posted: 11/10/2010 3:47:59 AM
China
only1asterisk
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Posted: 11/10/2010 3:50:15 AM
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Originally Posted By JasonblkZ06:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD


so government and government? That is the answer to all things priced high and why.



The answer to that question depends on who's in office.
Right now there's a democrat in office so its all of their fault in the eyes of a republican.

When a republican's in office, it's then called capitalism to a republican.




Bullshit!

Over the top environmental regulation and taxes are always part of the problem when you talk about fuel prices.
Shelley Seale wuz here!
Sylvan
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:07:48 AM
Originally Posted By JasonblkZ06:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By EMD:
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
When I bought my first VW diesel car in 2002, diesel was just $1.35/gallon, I paid up to $4.78/gallon at the peak of the bubble. With a few exceptions this past year, diesel always seems to be 10-40 cents higher than regular gasoline, although sometimes its between regular and premium. Everything I've read says that diesel is easier to manufacture and does not require as much refining as gasoline and it yields much greater efficiency. Add to that the already efficient infrastructure to distribute diesel with semis, trains and ships needing huge quantities of diesel fuel. I didn't notice a spike in the price of diesel when low sulphur diesel became mandatory and I was running biodiesel from the pump for a while that was cheaper than regular pump diesel when prices were $4+/gallon. My new VW diesel gets 42-45 mpg but it still kills me to see diesel going higher and higher when compared to gasoline.

People have told me that it's the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the demand for the war machine that raises the price, others tell me that it's the states and their taxes on diesel or that the government subsidies on E85 gasoline make it just seem cheaper. It makes me wonder why the price of diesel always seems to be higher than gasoline?

Anyone got the answer? Should diesel be cheaper than gasoline all things being equal?


Primary reason is there is less of it per barrel of crude. Secondary is that much more is being used now -vs- mid 1980's. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/images/charts/products_from_barrel_crude_oil-small.gif

ETA: The ULS mandate has added to the price, but diesel surpassed gasoline in price a long time ago.

Um, no.
That is what we do with it, not what "naturally" is more or less. Diesel was an easier refining process than gasoline until ULSD kicked in.
Shit, the difference between kerosine Jet-A and diesel is practically nothing.
To answer the question, taxes and ULSD


so government and government? That is the answer to all things priced high and why.



no.
the question is why diesel is now more expensive than regular gasoline when it used to be the opposite.
organic engineering didn't change. government regulations did.
Skibane
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:11:50 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2010 10:13:23 AM by Skibane]
Part of it is due to the fact that a barrel of oil will yield more gallons of gasoline than diesel. Diesel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline - and there is only so much energy content in a barrel of oil. More gallons of fuel per barrel = cheaper cost per gallon of fuel*

*Assuming the refining costs, distribution costs, taxes, etc. are similar for both fuels
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:22:30 AM
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Part of it is due to the fact that a barrel of oil will yield more gallons of gasoline than diesel. Diesel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline - and there is only so much energy content in a barrel of oil. More gallons of fuel per barrel = cheaper cost per gallon of fuel*

*Assuming the refining costs, distribution costs, taxes, etc. are similar for both fuels


no, most crude has to be broken down (cracked) to yield enough gasoline.
diesel is the easier refining process (at least used to be)
but refining is a small part of the cost and refineries are set up for a specific yield. changing that yield (ULSD) can be expensive.
fact is diesel used to be cheaper, and now it costs more.
guess we found the god particle.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:45:45 AM

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
Originally Posted By c130montana:
I remember $.17 diesel & $.24 gas.
About the only diesel contraptions were Semi's & farm equipment.


The Ol' Crew Chief


How freakin old are you?

Damn, how old does he need to be? I'm 54 and I remember $.24 a gallon gas. I remember Shell 101 octane super for $.32 a gallon. I wasn't driving then, but I remember it. I was 10 years old when my Dad bought a 67 390 Mustang and it had 10.5 to 1 compression ratio, the owners manual called for 99+ octane gas and he used to fill it at the local Shell station. I remember filling my first street motorcycle at age 13 and paying $.33 for a gallon of 97 octane regular. I also remember one trip with my Dad in the Mustang when he had to fill up in the Big Bear mountain area, he bitched to high heaven about having to pay $.55 a gallon.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:47:29 AM
Gasoline used to be a waste byproduct of refining diesel and kerosene.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:48:52 AM
I dont know....but I have a dumbass BIL who thinks diesel is more expensive because people on the east cost use it to heat their homes and it makes it cost more
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:49:01 AM
I get a weekly pricing summary from the DOE... it's interesting to watch the changes.

You can sign up here: http://www.eia.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:50:05 AM
Originally Posted By Windwarrior:
Because it is better.

What do you expect for GD?


This. My next ride will be a TDI
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Posted: 11/10/2010 10:51:00 AM
My wild guess is the demand for diesel is inelastic. I'd wager aggregate demand for gasoline can change with price but trucks and other diesel powered motors don't change their patterns much.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:01:13 AM
Originally Posted By 3rdpig:

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
Originally Posted By c130montana:
I remember $.17 diesel & $.24 gas.
About the only diesel contraptions were Semi's & farm equipment.


The Ol' Crew Chief


How freakin old are you?

Damn, how old does he need to be? I'm 54 and I remember $.24 a gallon gas. I remember Shell 101 octane super for $.32 a gallon. I wasn't driving then, but I remember it. I was 10 years old when my Dad bought a 67 390 Mustang and it had 10.5 to 1 compression ratio, the owners manual called for 99+ octane gas and he used to fill it at the local Shell station. I remember filling my first street motorcycle at age 13 and paying $.33 for a gallon of 97 octane regular. I also remember one trip with my Dad in the Mustang when he had to fill up in the Big Bear mountain area, he bitched to high heaven about having to pay $.55 a gallon.


Yup, I was pumping gas during the "Gas shortage" you know, when everyone was lined up and stations were running out. Funny thing was we were getting the same shipments but the imaginary shortage became self fulfilling.

Diesel is going up because in the US diesel is bad. The new epa regs have pretty much eliminated the inherent advantage over gas.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:05:01 AM
It was not always this way.

I remember 15 cent diesel and 24 cent gasoline.

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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:18:50 AM
Originally Posted By Ironmanshak:
I work in an oil refinery. It's all about supply and demand and government regulations.

1 - Supply & demand - Europe & the rest of the world now uses much more diesel than they did before (demand has gone up). Some say diesel demand is growing at twice the rate of gasoline - Diesel Demand

2 - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel - Thanks to our wonderful politicians and our bureaucratic EPA which has required oil refineries to remove more sulphur from diesel fuel. It is very expensive to remove sulphur out of motor fuels. It involves hydrogen and a lot of expensive process equipment and catalyst.


This is correct. The US could not sell the old diesel mix to Europe. ULSD allowed US companies to sell the product in Europe. Bigger market. Demand is higher. So is the price.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:20:43 AM
Originally Posted By Cdog:
Originally Posted By Ironmanshak:
I work in an oil refinery. It's all about supply and demand and government regulations.

1 - Supply & demand - Europe & the rest of the world now uses much more diesel than they did before (demand has gone up). Some say diesel demand is growing at twice the rate of gasoline - Diesel Demand

2 - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel - Thanks to our wonderful politicians and our bureaucratic EPA which has required oil refineries to remove more sulphur from diesel fuel. It is very expensive to remove sulphur out of motor fuels. It involves hydrogen and a lot of expensive process equipment and catalyst.


This is correct. The US could not sell the old diesel mix to Europe. ULSD allowed US companies to sell the product in Europe. Bigger market. Demand is higher. So is the price.


I learned something today...thanks very much.

And, of course, fucked again by government.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:22:33 AM
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:23:38 AM
IT'S ALWAYS TAXES!!!!!

Here in Colorado (taxes as of 2009):

Gasoline Diesel
Federal .184 .224
State .205 .22


Total .389 .444
per gal

Diesel is taxed .054 more per gal.

Fuel prices Gasoline Diesel
per gal 2.58 2.96
(87 oct)

Diesel is priced .38 higher per gallon.

So you can see plain as day, if they lowered the diesel taxes to what gas is taxed at, diesel would be MUCH cheaper than gas per gallon!!!!

(I proudly use an Arfcom logic calculator for my math)
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:24:01 AM
One of the reasons I bought my powerstroke in 2003 was the fact that at the time, diesel was ~40 cents cheaper than gas. 6 months later, that was no longer true. :/
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:25:03 AM
Originally Posted By LHD:
http://i52.tinypic.com/qs5ij6.jpg


lol
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:28:00 AM
Because non producers will always have their chubby little hands in the pockets of producers. That's why.


Only some diesel is more expensive. Explaing how contractors get diesel cheaper would be a violation of coc and make SOS cops froth at the mouth.
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