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Smead
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:28:34 PM
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
B25?

It looks like the tail feathers have the stabilizers at the ends instead of one in the middle.


Too small. B-25s had tail gunners or observation "blisters" at the tail as well.


Yeah, I went back and looked, def. not a B25.


Early B-25's did not have a tail turret.

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:29:03 PM
Cool pics,but what is a "holler", is it like "over yonder" or a terrain feature ?
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:29:09 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 7:30:37 PM by Argon3]
Well I looked and its not a Mohawk or Bronco
Mohawk had three tails sections
Bronco had tail only above fins

I was going to go for a B-25 but no tail gunner
I'll dig some more

I could believe a Transport Hudson
Since it did not have the Blister just in front of the tail
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:29:12 PM
Originally Posted By JIP:

Originally Posted By jnk556:
Originally Posted By RhinelandArms:
Looks like some sort of target drone?


If so, why would it be in the middle of the national forest??

If i remember correctly Dolly Sods was used as a target range but I think that was for artillery but I am sure this might be some sort of spillover from that. I am not sure at what point in history that was done but you will see signs warning of unexploded ordinance and in the official trail guide there are some warnings. By the way I love the country down there of all the different places to backpack in the area that my wife and I tried we always ended up going back there. For us the big draws were always Dolly Sods and Otter Creek.


Yes, Dolly Sods was used for artillery and mortar practice. No anti-aircraft training went on in WV that I know of......

I'm thinking maybe a AF plane being used by the FS back in the day, for forest fire lookout???
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:31:50 PM
It is not an Aircoupe.

The army air corp did play with a few, even some jato pics out there.

An ercoupe had fabric over aluminum wings, also looks like a much larger aircraft.

Cool destination
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:32:12 PM
That will not buff out...... Cool find none the less, reminds me of the time I went hiking in the ADK mountains, 7 miles off a trail I found a slipper
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:32:16 PM
Click this internet holler for a plane crash database:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:33:12 PM
Pretty cool

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:33:24 PM
Originally Posted By KalihiJack:
So did you grab a souvenir to add to this thread?


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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:34:30 PM
do you have the GPS coordinates of the wreck???? I would like to check it out on my next trip up there. And also, what do you mean you found it on google Earth?
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:35:20 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 8:04:41 PM by AeroE]
Neat. It's a Beech 18; the photos of the intersection of the horizontal stabilizer with the fuselage are the clue. The insignia is WWII era Army Air Corps, and I don't know when it when out of use.

ETA: The red bar was added to the US national insignia in 1947 and is supposed to be in use now, but I can't recall seeing it on a modern airplane!


Originally Posted By Carbine_Emissions:
It was about 150yds up a holler off the trial I was hiking in a dry creek......


It's a holler. Where do you think the airplane is located?

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:35:26 PM
It is definitely a Beechcraft Air Force C-45G or H model that went through airframe upgrade in the early 50's I can tell from the shot of the landing gear. It has the late model landing gear. I started flying those type airplanes in 1965. I restored my own (SNB-5 / UC-45J) in 1986 and am still flying it today.

More than 5,000 were built during WWII for the military. They were used as AT-11 Bombardier, Navigator and AT-7 Pilot Trainers. Also used as Utility Transport. A small number were sent to the Chinese before U.S. entered the war and actually were small Bombers. Navy called them SNB.
Another 4,000+ were civilian/corporate/air taxi/freighter. Production line operated from 1937 to 1969. Civilians called them a Twinbeech or Beech18.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:35:43 PM
Looks like a Beech C-45 Expeditor. The USAF used these until 1963. In fact it might be this one, Bakalar Air Force Base C-45H Expeditor aircraft number 52-10571A that was lost in a September 7, 1958 crash in West Virginia. Lost in the crash were Major George A. Smith and Captain Edward E. Holtkamp USAF pilots from Bakalar Air Force Base, along with CAP Major William A. Hamilton and his wife CAP Captain Marjorie Hamilton of Huntington, West Virginia. A T-34 search plane also from Bakalar crashed during the search for the C-45, injuring two more Air Force personnel from the air base. It was a number of days before the C-45 crash site was located and the bodies recovered. Marjorie Hamilton survived the crash and lived for 24 hours or more after the crash but perished before the crash site was discovered.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:38:14 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 7:38:59 PM by PlaneJane]
Three minutes.

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:38:48 PM
What about a Lockheed 18?

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:39:41 PM
is this it?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X43197&key=1


Accident occurred Thursday, June 30, 1983 in KEYSER, WV
Aircraft: BEECH G18S, registration: N215W
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE MANAGER OF BLACKHAWK AIRWAYS HAD CLEARED THE FLT FOR A 1000 EDT DEPARTURE, BUT THE ACTUAL TAKEOFF TIME WAS NOT ESTABLISHED. NO RECORD OF A PREFLT WX BRIEFING WAS FOUND. HOWEVER, DURING A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION PRIOR TO THE FLT, THE PLT INDICATED TO HIS MANAGER THAT THE CLOUDS WOULD BE LOWER IN THE MOUNTAINS. AT APRX 1030, GROUND WITNESSES OBSERVED AN ACFT, MATCHING THE DESCRIPTION OF N215W, CIRCLING BENEATH THE CLOUDS AT KEYSER, WV, THEN DEPART TO THE SOUTHWEST. WHEN THE ACFT DID NOT ARRIVE AT ITS DESTINATION, A SEARCH WAS BEGUN. IT WAS FOUND WHERE IT HAD IMPACTED RISING TERRAIN APRX 6 MI SOUTHWEST OF KEYSER. THE IMPACT OCCURRED ON A 26 DEG SLOPE, AT APRX THE 3000 FT LEVEL, JUST BELOW A 3104 FT PEAK. THE ACFT WAS CLIMBING WHEN IT IMPACTED WOODED TERRAIN. A PLT/MECHANICAL, WHO OPERATED AN ARPT APRX 3 MI SOUTHEAST OF KEYSER, REPORTED THERE WAS FOG IN THE MORNING HRS WITH A CEILING OF ABOUT 2000 FT UNTIL MIDDAY & THAT THE MOUNTAIN TOPS IN THE VICINITY OF THE CRASH SITE WERE OBSCURED.



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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:40:20 PM
If that happened today, the environmental POLICE would make them remove every scrap, and return the forest to it's "PRESTINE" condition....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:41:05 PM
Originally Posted By oldcatdriver:
It is definitely a Beechcraft Air Force C-45G or H model that went through airframe upgrade in the early 50's I can tell from the shot of the landing gear. It has the late model landing gear. I started flying those type airplanes in 1965. I restored my own (SNB-5 / UC-45J) in 1986 and am still flying it today.

More than 5,000 were built during WWII for the military. They were used as AT-11 Bombardier, Navigator and AT-7 Pilot Trainers. Also used as Utility Transport. A small number were sent to the Chinese before U.S. entered the war and actually were small Bombers. Navy called them SNB.
Another 4,000+ were civilian/corporate/air taxi/freighter. Production line operated from 1937 to 1969. Civilians called them a Twinbeech or Beech18.


You sir seem to be right on top of things.....I kinda guessed that was the landing gear i took the pic of....

You have any good pics of areas that i have of the crash, maybe we could compare them.....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:41:52 PM
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
It should have a number on it, repeated on several places.

What is it?

4 8 15 16 23 42


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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:42:00 PM
There was a hiking trail in Tucson I used to go on, that had an f-86 sabrejet crash still there. It was reportedly a mid-air collision with another. It had never been removed.

It was pretty cool to hike by that.


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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:43:44 PM
Originally Posted By Carbine_Emissions:
is this it?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X43197&key=1


Accident occurred Thursday, June 30, 1983 in KEYSER, WV
Aircraft: BEECH G18S, registration: N215W
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE MANAGER OF BLACKHAWK AIRWAYS HAD CLEARED THE FLT FOR A 1000 EDT DEPARTURE, BUT THE ACTUAL TAKEOFF TIME WAS NOT ESTABLISHED. NO RECORD OF A PREFLT WX BRIEFING WAS FOUND. HOWEVER, DURING A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION PRIOR TO THE FLT, THE PLT INDICATED TO HIS MANAGER THAT THE CLOUDS WOULD BE LOWER IN THE MOUNTAINS. AT APRX 1030, GROUND WITNESSES OBSERVED AN ACFT, MATCHING THE DESCRIPTION OF N215W, CIRCLING BENEATH THE CLOUDS AT KEYSER, WV, THEN DEPART TO THE SOUTHWEST. WHEN THE ACFT DID NOT ARRIVE AT ITS DESTINATION, A SEARCH WAS BEGUN. IT WAS FOUND WHERE IT HAD IMPACTED RISING TERRAIN APRX 6 MI SOUTHWEST OF KEYSER. THE IMPACT OCCURRED ON A 26 DEG SLOPE, AT APRX THE 3000 FT LEVEL, JUST BELOW A 3104 FT PEAK. THE ACFT WAS CLIMBING WHEN IT IMPACTED WOODED TERRAIN. A PLT/MECHANICAL, WHO OPERATED AN ARPT APRX 3 MI SOUTHEAST OF KEYSER, REPORTED THERE WAS FOG IN THE MORNING HRS WITH A CEILING OF ABOUT 2000 FT UNTIL MIDDAY & THAT THE MOUNTAIN TOPS IN THE VICINITY OF THE CRASH SITE WERE OBSCURED.





NO, definatly not it, I'm pretty good ways south of Keyser
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:45:44 PM
Originally Posted By Slufstuff:
Looks like a Beech C-45 Expeditor. The USAF used these until 1963. In fact it might be this one, Bakalar Air Force Base C-45H Expeditor aircraft number 52-10571A that was lost in a September 7, 1958 crash in West Virginia. Lost in the crash were Major George A. Smith and Captain Edward E. Holtkamp USAF pilots from Bakalar Air Force Base, along with CAP Major William A. Hamilton and his wife CAP Captain Marjorie Hamilton of Huntington, West Virginia. A T-34 search plane also from Bakalar crashed during the search for the C-45, injuring two more Air Force personnel from the air base. It was a number of days before the C-45 crash site was located and the bodies recovered. Marjorie Hamilton survived the crash and lived for 24 hours or more after the crash but perished before the crash site was discovered.


You have a source of that info, it seems it could be possible....... Although, the FS roads were here in the 1950's, they were built by the CCC in the 30's

The mountain it is on is Middle Mountain, if that helps anyone....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:49:01 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 7:49:28 PM by ragedracer1977]
I can't find any records of a C-45 (Air Force C-45 I mean) crashing. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just can't find info.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:49:33 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 7:51:01 PM by HeavyMetal]
http://www.pbase.com/aquilaet/crash


P-51D Crash site

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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:52:51 PM
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
http://www.pbase.com/aquilaet/crash


P-51D Crash site

I am going there in late October. It is quite a slog to get to.


Nice!!
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:55:33 PM
Most definitely a Beech 18. My dad flew one of those across the Atlantic once. He thought he was going to have to ditch, so he told his copilot to double check on the emergency equipment in back; turns out it was all marked "for training purposes only". He decided not to ditch.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:55:59 PM
http://www.atterburybakalarairmuseum.org/

Museum website for the Bakalar Air Force Base museum in Indiana.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:57:17 PM
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:57:41 PM
Originally Posted By Slufstuff:
http://www.atterburybakalarairmuseum.org/

Museum website for the Bakalar Air Force Base museum in Indiana.


Thank you, I may see if I can dig more up......
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:58:55 PM
Cool find.
There is a B47 crash site about 6 miles south of me in the middle of the woods. Happened in the 60s. A guy I work with claims to know exactly where it is. I'd like to take a hike out there some day.

Yes, the USAF knows where it is and cleaned up most of the wreckage. But the canopy and some shreds of metal are still around I hear.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 7:59:10 PM
Originally Posted By Chokey:
Map of known crahes in WV


Not listed there.....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:02:37 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 8:05:36 PM by 87GN]
What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:05:48 PM
Originally Posted By TrijiCog:
Cool pics,but what is a "holler", is it like "over yonder" or a terrain feature ?


hol·ler 2 (hlr)
adj., v. & n. Chiefly Upper Southern U.S.
Variant of hollow.
Regional Note: One feature of Upper Southern English and specifically of Appalachian English is its pronunciation of the final unstressed syllable in words such as hollow, window, and potato as (r). Holler, winder, and tater are merely variant pronunciations reflected in spelling. As a noun, holler has the specific meaning in the Appalachians of "a small valley between mountains": They live up in the holler underneath Big Bald Mountain

Around here hollow means it has nothing in it.

With aluminum bringing .45 cents/lb. I wouldn't pack it to far. That's probably why it's still there.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:08:46 PM


That appears to be the story, of the crash above. That is NOT the plane, this crash would be in Randolph county....
Confucius say, man slain with donkeys jawbone is killed by high speed piece of ass....{Slipshot762}

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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:09:49 PM
Originally Posted By tnwalker10:
Originally Posted By TrijiCog:
Cool pics,but what is a "holler", is it like "over yonder" or a terrain feature ?


hol·ler 2 (hlr)
adj., v. & n. Chiefly Upper Southern U.S.
Variant of hollow.
Regional Note: One feature of Upper Southern English and specifically of Appalachian English is its pronunciation of the final unstressed syllable in words such as hollow, window, and potato as (r). Holler, winder, and tater are merely variant pronunciations reflected in spelling. As a noun, holler has the specific meaning in the Appalachians of "a small valley between mountains": They live up in the holler underneath Big Bald Mountain

Around here hollow means it has nothing in it.

With aluminum bringing .45 cents/lb. I wouldn't pack it to far. That's probably why it's still there.


There you go

Holy shit they have a redneck dictionary
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:10:21 PM
[Last Edit: 9/19/2010 8:11:01 PM by 87GN]
Huh. I'm only finding references to 3 military C-45 crashes in WV. 2 at airports, and the one mentioned above. It's possible that it was a civilian plane that still had military markings.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:13:03 PM
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Huh. I'm only finding references to 3 military C-45 crashes in WV. 2 at airports, and the one mentioned above. It's possible that it was a civilian plane that still had military markings.


Or possibly a AF plane given to the Forest service.....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:16:07 PM
Interesting find. Look up Elephant Mountain here in Maine. Another Air Force crash. 7 fatalities


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Elephant_Mountain_B-52_crash
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:25:13 PM
Originally Posted By Carbine_Emissions:
It was about 150yds up a holler off the trial I was hiking in a dry creek......


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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:29:02 PM

Originally Posted By oldcatdriver:
It is definitely a Beechcraft Air Force C-45G or H model that went through airframe upgrade in the early 50's I can tell from the shot of the landing gear. It has the late model landing gear. I started flying those type airplanes in 1965. I restored my own (SNB-5 / UC-45J) in 1986 and am still flying it today.

More than 5,000 were built during WWII for the military. They were used as AT-11 Bombardier, Navigator and AT-7 Pilot Trainers. Also used as Utility Transport. A small number were sent to the Chinese before U.S. entered the war and actually were small Bombers. Navy called them SNB.
Another 4,000+ were civilian/corporate/air taxi/freighter. Production line operated from 1937 to 1969. Civilians called them a Twinbeech or Beech18.


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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:29:32 PM
Too cool.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:32:26 PM
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:33:13 PM
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:

Originally Posted By oldcatdriver:
It is definitely a Beechcraft Air Force C-45G or H model that went through airframe upgrade in the early 50's I can tell from the shot of the landing gear. It has the late model landing gear. I started flying those type airplanes in 1965. I restored my own (SNB-5 / UC-45J) in 1986 and am still flying it today.

More than 5,000 were built during WWII for the military. They were used as AT-11 Bombardier, Navigator and AT-7 Pilot Trainers. Also used as Utility Transport. A small number were sent to the Chinese before U.S. entered the war and actually were small Bombers. Navy called them SNB.
Another 4,000+ were civilian/corporate/air taxi/freighter. Production line operated from 1937 to 1969. Civilians called them a Twinbeech or Beech18.

http://www.stinsonflyer.com/prop/be18-31.jpg


Thank You big time for that pic!!!!!!

It all adds up, right down to the black rubber material on the leading edge of the wing......

I can tell from a pic of the plane, alot of it has been hauled off over the years.....
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:34:34 PM
That's pretty neat!

When I saw the thread title I would have bet money that you were hiking near the Peaks of Otter on the Blue Ridge Parkway about an hour or so from Roanoke, VA. There is a crash sight on the side of the mountain that you can walk to if you know where to look. IIRC it is from WW2 as well.
Shooter62
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:34:59 PM
Originally Posted By TrijiCog:
Cool pics,but what is a "holler", is it like "over yonder" or a terrain feature ?


I guess up north it would be called a ravine or maybe a small valley

Over yonder is about a half of ovair = distance

Good God, always edemucatin the yanks
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:36:16 PM
Originally Posted By Chokey:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/32457575


That is the google earth image! I found this plane, just by seeing this pic, figuring out it was near my trail, and went looking.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:36:26 PM
Virtually all aircraft of the era had the black rubber on the leading edge of the wing. It's de-icing equipment. I'm not discounting the ID based on that fact, though.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:37:15 PM
Originally Posted By swingset:
Wow, that's cool as hell. I mean, not cool that a plane crashed but that you can hike to the wreckage.

Did you find some bags of reefer in the hull? If so, share them with your sexy hiking partner who's a romance author.


lol, I thought the same thing after reading the thread title... Weren't there some dead dudes in there as well?
patchouli
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:37:29 PM

Originally Posted By Featheredmafia:
Virtually all aircraft of the era had the black rubber on the leading edge of the wing. It's de-icing equipment. I'm not discounting the ID based on that fact, though.



Isn't it an airbladder that pumps up to expand and break the ice up?
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Merrell
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Posted: 9/19/2010 8:38:28 PM
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