convince me not to Buy a PS90 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - convince me not to Buy a PS90 (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:50:44 PM EDT

[#1]

To me , it reminds me of a paintball gun, which is a good thing because I played for 6-7 years.

It seems like a fun gun , but ammo commonality is important for me, so i'd be happier with one in 223 or 762.

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:51:44 PM EDT

[#2]

you know its just gonna eat away at you until you buy it....so you might as well go for it ASAP.

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:56:04 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

i cant own a MSAR or AUG because i live in leftist land.....

That's just not true. It's a simple matter to make an MSAR lefty capable.

OP is from Connecticut, where there is a by-name AWB. Leftist = CT, not left-handed.

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:57:54 PM EDT

[#4]

It's pretty easy to decipher those who know what they're talking about in this thread from those who are just masquerading the same old baseless, repetitious gun-store tripe as fact and talking out of their asses.

You wouldn't compare the 1911 platform to the AR15 platform - one's meant for close-quarter-combat, the other for long distance shooting; so don't compare the P90 platform, which was designed specifically with a CQC application in mind, to any other rifle platform which was designed to reach out and touch someone over 600 meters away.

Get one only if you plan to SBR it. Otherwise that long barrel sticking out the front will begin to irritate you whenever you see it. I SBR'ed mine, and I love shooting it, but if the SHTF I'm grabbing the M1A - even the AR15 can take a back seat in that situation.

_MaH

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:59:57 PM EDT

[#5]

It's super-damn comfy to hold, lightweight, and tiny. You can have a shitload of ammo loaded up and ready to go, in a small package. Looking around at some of the more potent ammo manufacturers will yield ammo equal to the "banned" ammo, though it might not penetrate body armor.

Though in all honesty, it might be cheaper and easier to go with the 5.7 upper for the AR, and use a gutted GI mag to catch brass & reload it. At least to me, that route is incredibly tempting.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:08:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Your cute rhetoric won't help you if you suddenly find yourself using a gun in 5.7and finding out why people who have sent that round down range end up dropping the weapon. SWAT teams who have shot people with the round, (and IIRC some german units using the comparable 4.6 in afghanistan too) found that the 5.7 doesn't exactly quickly incapacitate targets, and bringing a target down requires a higher volume of fire, and VERY good shooting.. and with all due respect I doubt you shoot anywhere near as well as those guys do, especially under stress. (I could be wrong.)

To borrow a post from another forum:
"JSO's experience with 5.7x28mm involved the FN P90 PDW. In one incident a deputy crawled on the hood of a car and fired through the windshield at a suspect inside, landing multiple hits. The entire time the suspect was reportedly screaming "Stop shooting me! Stop shooting me!" He wasn't incapacitated by the hits and survived his wounds. After several shootings in which 5.7 failed JSO SWAT dumped it.

LAPD SWAT tried 5.7 and dumped it. Miami PD SWAT tried 5.7 and dumped it."

Fanboyisms, saying "YOU MADE THAT UP BRAH", koolaid, and TV show clips won't save your bacon in a gunfight. Having a reliable AND SUITABLE platform, using quality ammo, and practicing with your gun, will.

For a fun gun? I'd consider a PS90 if I had the change. For HD? Absofuckinglutely not.

Your source is a random post on an internet forum. Anyone could just as easily copy-paste from another internet forum post that claims the opposite. Even if you could establish beyond a doubt (you probably can't) that Jacksonville Sheriff's Office was unhappy with the P90’s terminal performance, that is entirely irrelevant without also establishing the details from the incidents. For example, at least one police department has experienced two shootings with .40 S&W where the subject had to be shot 10 or more times, and considered switching calibers for that reason. In the first shooting, all bullets in the subject penetrated less than 1" each. In the second shooting, the subject was struck 10 times through a car windshield and window and continued to fire at police officers until he was struck by another bullet in the head. See: http://concealedcarryholsters.org/fbi-analysis-on-pa-police-shootout. A third story of supposed poor performance with .40 S&W in the comments at that website also says:

Quote: "I carry a Glock 27, .40 caliber loaded with 165 Federal Hydroshock Ammuntion. Utilized weapon to fire on felon operating vehicle that struck and injured partner. Fired round thru drivers window. Bullet entered glass and struck suspect (broadside) in center of left arm. Bullet travelled thru arm causing damage to muscle and shattering upper arm. Bullet did (fell dead) upon exiting arm therefore not striking suspect in upper body to cause any further damage/injury. Must say was a little surprised/dissappointed in bullet performance but I do realize glass takes alot of steam out of the bullet."

As you can see, it’s easy to point to supposed failures with any type of bullet. Even if your copy-pasted forum post was credible information, you would still have no actual details from the shootings. Any pistol bullet (even a bullet with good performance) will fail in certain situations. A police department was very disappointed with the .40 S&W’s terminal performance in two shootings, so by your flawed logic the .40 S&W is a poor terminal performer.

But let’s even suppose you could establish, without a doubt, that SS190 is a poor terminal performer, and also suppose you can establish all of the relevant details from the incident(s). That would still be irrelevant to this discussion because civilians have access to much better ammunition. Current 5.7x28mm projectiles use entirely different projectile designs (bullets that do not yaw, but instead expand and/or fragment) and EA is pushing bullets roughly 60% heavier than SS190, at the same velocities. These velocities have also been independently chronographed by various publications.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:11:19 PM EDT

[#7]

That story and more came to me via a well regarded trainer who does quite a bit of work in JAX. He knows the shooters there who had the issues.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:17:39 PM EDT

[#8]

Don't get it. At $20.00 per box, it's double the cost of 9mm for the price and simply not worth it, bro. Don't even think about it. I enjoy mine, but never shoot the damn thing.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:21:45 PM EDT

[#9]

While AUGs are banned by name in the state AWB, MSAR rifles are not and are regularly offered with pinned muzzle breaks at Hoffmans and Jojos among other places.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:22:17 PM EDT

[#10]

it can kill Cylons

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:22:21 PM EDT

[#11]

If you get one, get the pistol too, and reloading dies. I looked into it; just not worth it for an "off" caliber with marginal performance

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:30:08 PM EDT

[#12]

combat jack says they are no good and he is a HSLD operator what more do you need? then again if you wanted a gun to have fun with no diffrent then say a 22 I would get one.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:33:44 PM EDT

[#13]

When you boys stop comparing the size of your dicks can we get back to discussing the P90?

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:34:08 PM EDT

[#14]

my experience with one resulted in very awkward magazine changes, but my time with it was very limited.

wouldn't stop me from getting an SBR'd AR57 upper though...

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:39:32 PM EDT

[#15]

this is a good alternative
you can get just the upper and slap it on your AR lower
it only $695.99 or cheaper

or
the hole thing for $1,099.00 i have seen a few online stores sale it for less

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:40:12 PM EDT

[#16]

I thought the entire point was to have a small firearm that can penetrate body armor (as a replacement for submachine guns), and be controllable in full-auto.

Doesn't a semi-auto, longer-barrel PS90 with politically-correct ammo pretty much destroy all the positives of the P90?

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:41:01 PM EDT

[#17]

I've shot both the PS90 (SBR'd and not) and the P90 (yeah, the real deal, full-auto version). It's an interesting concept, which has merit if you're using it within it's design parameters. That is: at close range, against targets wearing body armor, and you need a PDW because you need more range than a pistol allows but can't be encumbered by a full size battle rifle. If you're a civilian in the U.S., you can't get the AP rounds, but how often will you really be shooting armored targets, right?

If you're just looking to add another piece to your collection, then go for it. If you're looking for a range toy, and you're in a position where cost of ammo is little or no concern, then go for it. But, if you're looking for a range toy aqnd money isn't flowing freely for you, you might want to think twice about it. If you're looking for a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI rifle, you might be better served with something that will be easier to feed and service in your area. (Think about it this way, how many AR mags do you see in local gunshops, versus PS90 mags? How much ammo do you routinely see? If SHTF / TEOTWAWKI involves scrounging off of those less capable than you who are now deceased, how many of them do you think will have a stockpile of PS90 mags and ammo.) Another consideration might be the fact that should another AWB be enacted, or your State decide to further intrude into your life with a more strict ban, how difficult will it be to get "pre-ban" mags? There aren't that many PS90 mags in existence, as opposed to millions of AR / AK mags floating around right now.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:41:50 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
combat jack says they are no good and he is a HSLD operator what more do you need? then again if you wanted a gun to have fun with no diffrent then say a 22 I would get one.

I have four uses for weapons.

Competition
Hunting
Killing
Collecting cool shit

The PS90 doesn't do anything for any of those roles.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:45:00 PM EDT

[#19]

LOL this reminds me of the old PS90 forum that was going

any and I mean any questioning of the ballistics of the cartridge was grounds for a ban

IIRC some of them came over here to troll after john waynes buick of truth thread

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:48:19 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
combat jack says they are no good and he is a HSLD operator what more do you need? then again if you wanted a gun to have fun with no diffrent then say a 22 I would get one.

I have four uses for weapons.

Competition
Hunting
Killing
Collecting cool shit

The PS90 doesn't do anything for any of those roles.

well some people might think it is cool and could kill shit with it

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:49:24 PM EDT

[#21]

Local SWAT team just sent 6 or so back for cracked frames.

Posted: 6/9/2010 8:55:42 PM EDT

[#22]

if it sucks so much why does secret service ERT use them alot and have no complaints with em?

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:00:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Because you already own a .22 rifle and don't need another one.......

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:02:41 PM EDT

[#24]

Funny thing...when I take people out shooting with my PS90, AR15 , AK47, Sig 556 and MSAR E4, guess which one gets the most range time? Yep, the PS90.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:06:58 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

if it sucks so much why does secret service ERT use them alot and have no complaints with em?

http://i.pbase.com/u32/thpproductions/upload/20827456.WhiteHouseSecretService031copy.jpg

1 they never shot anyone with them

2 I assume they just have um for the AP ability and size

seems like anybody who actually shoots people with them dumps them afterward

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:07:22 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
if it sucks so much why does secret service ERT use them alot and have no complaints with em?

http://i.pbase.com/u32/thpproductions/upload/20827456.WhiteHouseSecretService031copy.jpg

How many people did they shoot with it so far?

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:21:55 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Your cute rhetoric won't help you if you suddenly find yourself using a gun in 5.7and finding out why people who have sent that round down range end up dropping the weapon. SWAT teams who have shot people with the round, (and IIRC some german units using the comparable 4.6 in afghanistan too) found that the 5.7 doesn't exactly quickly incapacitate targets, and bringing a target down requires a higher volume of fire, and VERY good shooting.. and with all due respect I doubt you shoot anywhere near as well as those guys do, especially under stress. (I could be wrong.)

To borrow a post from another forum:
"JSO's experience with 5.7x28mm involved the FN P90 PDW. In one incident a deputy crawled on the hood of a car and fired through the windshield at a suspect inside, landing multiple hits. The entire time the suspect was reportedly screaming "Stop shooting me! Stop shooting me!" He wasn't incapacitated by the hits and survived his wounds. After several shootings in which 5.7 failed JSO SWAT dumped it.

LAPD SWAT tried 5.7 and dumped it. Miami PD SWAT tried 5.7 and dumped it."

Fanboyisms, saying "YOU MADE THAT UP BRAH", koolaid, and TV show clips won't save your bacon in a gunfight. Having a reliable AND SUITABLE platform, using quality ammo, and practicing with your gun, will.

For a fun gun? I'd consider a PS90 if I had the change. For HD? Absofuckinglutely not.

Your source is a random post on an internet forum.
Yep. Please prove it to be factually incorrect.

There are several forums frequently by people who do a lot of shooting, and know "been there done thats" - and the "5.7x28 is meh" sentiment is not unique to one forum. This is the internet, get used to the fact that people who know what they're talking about have internet connections, and that it's hard to identify them. I understand your skepticism, but your post reeks of someone who is emotionally invested in a substandard platform, and is trying to defend his choice.

Anyone could just as easily copy-paste from another internet forum post that claims the opposite. Even if you could establish beyond a doubt (you probably can't) that Jacksonville Sheriff's Office was unhappy with the P90’s terminal performance, that is entirely irrelevant without also establishing the details from the incidents. For example, at least one police department has experienced two shootings with .40 S&W where the subject had to be shot 10 or more times, and considered switching calibers for that reason. In the first shooting, all bullets in the subject penetrated less than 1" each. In the second shooting, the subject was struck 10 times through a car windshield and window and continued to fire at police officers until he was struck by another bullet in the head. See: http://concealedcarryholsters.org/fbi-analysis-on-pa-police-shootout. A third story of supposed poor performance with .40 S&W in the comments at that website also says:

Quote: "I carry a Glock 27, .40 caliber loaded with 165 Federal Hydroshock Ammuntion. Utilized weapon to fire on felon operating vehicle that struck and injured partner. Fired round thru drivers window. Bullet entered glass and struck suspect (broadside) in center of left arm. Bullet travelled thru arm causing damage to muscle and shattering upper arm. Bullet did (fell dead) upon exiting arm therefore not striking suspect in upper body to cause any further damage/injury. Must say was a little surprised/dissappointed in bullet performance but I do realize glass takes alot of steam out of the bullet."
Hydra-shok sucks. And so does your irrelevant tangent about the .40S&W round, bro. Shooting through glass is a tricky thing, read up on the 5.7 to find out just how bad it performs when auto-glass comes into the mix.

<more strawman>

But let’s even suppose you could establish, without a doubt, that SS190 is a poor terminal performer,
We can't buy the real deal SS109 5.7 load as civilians. Again, the 5.7 does not have a shoddy reputation by accident. But please keep saying it does.
and also suppose you can establish all of the relevant details from the incident(s). That would still be irrelevant to this discussion because civilians have access to much better ammunition. Current 5.7x28mm projectiles use entirely different projectile designs (bullets that do not yaw, but instead expand and/or fragment) and EA is pushing bullets roughly 60% heavier than SS190, at the same velocities. These velocities have also been independently chronographed by various publications.

Please, construct more strawmen. And start listing those loads.

i'm sorry dude, but a "Stop shooting me!" incident is pretty damning

If I can get JW_777 in here, I think I've seen him post a little about the 5.7, and other HSLD types opinions on it- and I trust his word.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:24:02 PM EDT

[#28]

wound potential similar to a 22 magnum on unarmored targets?

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:29:54 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

wound potential similar to a 22 magnum on unarmored targets?

very close yes

5.7mm 31g@2350 FPS

22 WMR 34g@2120 FPS

not sure on the barrel length those figures came from

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:33:08 PM EDT

[#30]

i don't have any experience with a ps90, nor an ar57 upper (i've only shot a few rounds out of a five seven pistol once), but have you thought about a ar57 upper?

ETA i think thats a 6" pistol upper, which would make your rifle an SBR and require a tax stamp.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:38:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
i cant own a MSAR or AUG because i live in leftist land.....

You CAN own an MSAR

Microtech makes small batches for "ban states" with the FH pinned and welded.

I was trying to buy one myself, but all the ones I could find in CT were $1800+ without the optic, when they were going for $1100-1200 with and without the optic all over the rest of the country. I can swing $1200 + another $500-$600 for a decent optic, but I can't do $1800 + $500-$600.

Now they are back in production after the plant move, and going for $1150 or so brand new from Ratworx in CT ban compliant configuration. But I bought a pre-ban complete AR, so now I have a new moneypit to play with

I'll tell you what, I'd probably sell the preban in a second if I could get a deal on an MSAR locally.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:41:31 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're in CT so you can't have the 50 round mags they use.

I feel your pain.

Sorry bro no mag ban in CT

Lucky bastards

Well you have those weird rotary thingies in your roads so I guess it evens out.

wrong again, thats MA and RI.

We can pump our own gas too.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:48:05 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
While AUGs are banned by name in the state AWB, MSAR rifles are not and are regularly offered with pinned muzzle breaks at Hoffmans and Jojos among other places.

Yeah, Adding to this...

AUG are banned by name. For example, an actual "AR-15" by Colt is banned. Yet a BM-15 from bushy is not, or an M&P 15 from S&W is not, etc, etc. Any AR-15 besides Colts Sporters and AR-15 are fine. Colt's Carbine, and LE Carbines, 6920s, 6700s etc are all fine as long as they meet the other "feature" ban. (pin your brake and mill-off the bayo-lug and you are GTG) No mag limits in CT. CT also allows full-auto (but not select fire

), silencers are OK too. Oh and we can CCW into church and places alcohol is the primary item consumed, so suck on that Texas

The list of banned guns is from 1994 or thereabouts. At that time, there really wasn't that much diversity in EBR's, so what was considered "evil" at the time, made the list. So, the AUG has been around since the late 70's, that made the list, same goes for the FN FAL, FN FNC, HK-94, HK-91, HK-93, AK47 (but Ak 74 is A-ok!

), feathers, and a whole galaxy of weird shit that I've never seen or heard of, and while any AR-15 EXCEPT COLT'S SPORTERS OR AR-15 are legal, the same applies to clones of the AUG. Likewise, since the Hk-91 / HK G3 is banned by name, we can have the PTR-91 just fine, and it is even made in Farmington CT.

Weird law, but thankfully the gun-grabbers were not gun people, and just went through a catalog or something.

CT AWB is bassically the original Cali ban. It is full of stupid, like any other major social legislation.

Posted: 6/9/2010 9:57:39 PM EDT

[#34]

Howabout, it's the ugliest gun made.

Posted: 6/9/2010 10:12:13 PM EDT

[#35]

Yep. Please prove it to be factually incorrect.

It's a random post that you copy-pasted from an internet forum. I'm not obliged to invalidate a story that you have not validated to begin with.

Shooting through glass is a tricky thing, read up on the 5.7 to find out just how bad it performs when auto-glass comes into the mix.

A police department was very disappointed with the .40 S&W (using Speer 180 gr. Gold Dots) in two shootings, so by your flawed logic the .40 S&W is also a poor terminal performer.

We can't buy the real deal SS109 5.7 load as civilians.

That 5.7x28mm load is called the 'SS190', not the 'SS109'. It's irrelevant that civilians can't buy SS190 because any of the civilian cartridges produced by EA exceed the SS190's performance in all aspects. FN factory ammunition (even SS190) is watered down.

i'm sorry dude, but a "Stop shooting me!" incident is pretty damning

An internet forum post is not "damning" evidence. Even if the details were correct (they are not, necessarily), a victim's reaction to being shot has very little to do with the bullet's performance. Here is another example where a man was shot and killed with a .45-caliber handgun, and prior to dying never even knew he was shot, simply complaining of chest pains:

http://www.wbiw.com/local/archives/2009/03/police_investigating_shooting.php

Quote: “Morgan County police are trying to figure out who fired a bullet that killed a Monrovia man. The 35-year-old was not aware he had been shot. He complained of chest pains and his wife called 911. The victim has since been identified as 35-year-old Jason Breisch, and that the incident may have been an accident from a neighbor doing some target shooting with a .45 caliber handgun.”

By your flawed logic, we can conclude that a .45-caliber handgun is similarly a poor performer because the victim in the story simply complained of chest pains when he was shot.

Posted: 6/9/2010 10:12:22 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
People who take issue with the 5.7 have a little penis.

Thay have to have a .50 BMG to stop something one time, every time to make them feel adequate.

Dont feel sad, some women dont need a big one, just big bucks.

You're an idiot.

WHy so angry? Go joyfully shoot some pepper poppers with and .50 so we can know what the real Delta SEALS Op Squad Force guys use.

Edumicate us rtards.

Please show us the way.

I'm not worried about the caliber debate. Your presentation, however, was something I'd expect from an airsofter waiting for his balls to drop.

DEVGRU is using the MP7 but I hear that it doesn't work so well on excited Hajjis as it does on ambushed Hajjis. Something about their blood being up. Reports from LE indicate poor performance in the field.

rangermonroe if that was addressed to me, let's have a duel. You take one shot at me, at 100m, with the 5.7, and I return a shot of 5.56mm TAP T2. Hooah?

That's a dumb wager. If he doesn't, I'll take it.

(I get to shoot you first with the 5.7)

Why do I get the feeling that most of these arguments are made by people who haven't shot many things that bleed?
I'll kill you deader than Helen Thomas's sex life with a .22 LR at 100 yards with a single shot if you're just standing there. This is we Todd did. Shot placement, through the nose and into the hind brain for instant satisfaction.

Posted: 6/9/2010 10:18:15 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
very close yes
5.7mm 31g@2350 FPS
22 WMR 34g@2120 FPS

not sure on the barrel length those figures came from

The .22 WMR listed was fired from a rifle barrel. When both bullets are fired from pistol barrels of similar length, .22 WMR produces roughly half the muzzle velocity of EA 5.7x28mm. The difference between the two is nearly 1,000 ft/s.

Posted: 6/10/2010 4:37:48 AM EDT

[#38]

Do y'all realize that the 5.7 shoots a .224 bullet?

Posted: 6/10/2010 4:44:52 AM EDT

[#39]

If Michigan allowed SBRs I'd be all over it. I would never buy one with a 16" barrel though. That defeats alot of the purpose in my amateur opinion.

Posted: 6/10/2010 4:47:09 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
If they could make one in 9mm or 7.62x25 I'd be all over it. I just have no desire to own that 5.7 caliber.

Posted: 6/10/2010 4:58:49 AM EDT

[#41]

I can't talk you out of it OP as I would like to have one someday as well. It strikes me as a cool little range toy. As for the caliber, nothing I would want for serious use but better than nothing. I would rather have the same weapon in .22lr with 100 round mags.

Posted: 6/10/2010 5:02:20 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i cant own a MSAR or AUG because i live in leftist land.....

That's just not true. It's a simple matter to make an MSAR lefty capable.

OP is from Connecticut, where there is a by-name AWB. Leftist = CT, not left-handed.

this is somewhat commical because i am from CT and i am a Lefty.....

Posted: 6/10/2010 5:29:40 AM EDT

[#43]

The PS90 is a great shooter. Low recoil, easy to shag brass and initutive for a new or inexperienced shooter. If you go shooting with others, you will never touch it.

For me, it was a great addition to my BOB, when I was working in the sketchy neighborhood of a large metro area. I had a long hike, with river crossings, to get home, in case of a real SHTF emergency. A broken down long barrel PS90 would fit, with three loaded mags, in a smallish REI backpack, with a IFAK, water, half an MRE, Ranger woobie, flashlight, boots/socks and raingear.

It was discreet (which to me is a massive consideration, during 90% of likely scenarios) but still capable of reliably engaging targets to 100-150 meters, which beats a P228/G19.

Posted: 6/10/2010 5:44:20 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While AUGs are banned by name in the state AWB, MSAR rifles are not and are regularly offered with pinned muzzle breaks at Hoffmans and Jojos among other places.

Yeah, Adding to this...

AUG are banned by name. For example, an actual "AR-15" by Colt is banned. Yet a BM-15 from bushy is not, or an M&P 15 from S&W is not, etc, etc. Any AR-15 besides Colts Sporters and AR-15 are fine. Colt's Carbine, and LE Carbines, 6920s, 6700s etc are all fine as long as they meet the other "feature" ban. (pin your brake and mill-off the bayo-lug and you are GTG) No mag limits in CT. CT also allows full-auto (but not select fire

), silencers are OK too. Oh and we can CCW into church and places alcohol is the primary item consumed, so suck on that Texas

The list of banned guns is from 1994 or thereabouts. At that time, there really wasn't that much diversity in EBR's, so what was considered "evil" at the time, made the list. So, the AUG has been around since the late 70's, that made the list, same goes for the FN FAL, FN FNC, HK-94, HK-91, HK-93, AK47 (but Ak 74 is A-ok!

), feathers, and a whole galaxy of weird shit that I've never seen or heard of, and while any AR-15 EXCEPT COLT'S SPORTERS OR AR-15 are legal, the same applies to clones of the AUG. Likewise, since the Hk-91 / HK G3 is banned by name, we can have the PTR-91 just fine, and it is even made in Farmington CT.

Weird law, but thankfully the gun-grabbers were not gun people, and just went through a catalog or something.

CT AWB is bassically the original Cali ban. It is full of stupid, like any other major social legislation.

Since they're not hard to come by in MA with fixed brakes ( which IMO look nicer than the tulips but to each their own),it shouldn't be too hard to find one in CT?

Nobody who has ever shot my PS-90,or anyone else's, had ever said "this thing sucks and is pointless".To a person,everyone is very surprised at how easy it is to handle and shoot with as little effort as possible.For those that realize the point of the gun in the first place was to give people who don't normally carry a rifle a better alternative to hitting someone ( most likely wearing a War Pac issue body armor and helmet) than a pistol,the gun makes perfect sense.I don't know if it's too many Counter Strike players or this belief that it's meant to be the ultimate ninja gun because the Secret Service uses them but for the purpose it was originally designed,it's quite good. Does it have the range or power of a 5.56 or 7.62 rifle or carbine? Of course it doesn't but what 5.56 or 7.62 platform carries 50 rounds in that small of a package that's so easy to shoot?

Again,as to the length of the 16" version,it's shorter than a 10.5" AR and I've never heard of them as being ungainly or unweildy and it's not poorly balanced at all.For my purposes of shooting nothing but paper and pepper poppers,the thing's a hoot.If I shot people for a living,I'd probably want something else,say a 120mm smoothbore.

Posted: 6/10/2010 5:45:03 AM EDT

[#45]

Is the PS90 a straight blowback, or is there a delay in place? Do you just replace the barrel, or do you typically modify your 16 inch one? Either way, it would seem to be pretty easy to convert to a SBR without a gas system. When I SBR'd my 7.62 Krink I had to remove a pressure dropping bushing that was installed to make it work with a 16 inch barrel. Happily, the gas port is the correct size, and they just pressed the bushing into the FSB where it can be fairly easily removed (it seemed to be pretty soft and easily drillable).

From this:

To this:

Required this:

Posted: 6/10/2010 6:02:49 AM EDT

[#46]

It is straight blowback.

With higher performance ammo, it can be problematic due to "timing" issues.

as the poster above you stated, the gun was designed to be easier for "non gun" personell to fire than a pistol. It is better than a pistol, but not as good as a rifle.

It, by design, fits that groove nicely. My kids love it, and anyone who has ever shot them does as well.

Those of us who know anything about them at all knows that they will not replace an MBR, nor should they. They are an intermediate weapon. Nothing more.

Posted: 6/10/2010 6:26:12 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

This ain't gonna help

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh147/frozensalami/PS90.jpg

No it won't!

Posted: 6/10/2010 6:27:14 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
It is straight blowback.

With higher performance ammo, it can be problematic due to "timing" issues.

as the poster above you stated, the gun was designed to be easier for "non gun" personell to fire than a pistol. It is better than a pistol, but not as good as a rifle.

It, by design, fits that groove nicely. My kids love it, and anyone who has ever shot them does as well.

Those of us who know anything about them at all knows that they will not replace an MBR, nor should they. They are an intermediate weapon. Nothing more.

So are most SBR conversions a barrel swap or mod?

Posted: 6/10/2010 6:27:36 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Weird as hell with the long barrel. has to be SBR.

ammo will eat your heart out. SOO spendy for not that much more or diff than 5.56

When will the "5.7mm is expensive" thing die? I owned one for a couple years and ammo prices for premium factory 5.7mm was about the same as it was for good surplus 5.56mm. Hell, on ammoman (not the best prices often) 5.7mm is 450 for 1k rounds and Lake City SS109 is 449 for 1k rounds.

Posted: 6/10/2010 6:30:07 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It is straight blowback.

With higher performance ammo, it can be problematic due to "timing" issues.

as the poster above you stated, the gun was designed to be easier for "non gun" personell to fire than a pistol. It is better than a pistol, but not as good as a rifle.

It, by design, fits that groove nicely. My kids love it, and anyone who has ever shot them does as well.

Those of us who know anything about them at all knows that they will not replace an MBR, nor should they. They are an intermediate weapon. Nothing more.

So are most SBR conversions a barrel swap or mod?

Bbl swap, nothing more.

Supposedly, the chrome will flake off if it is cut down. I don't know this to be factual. My SBR'd one has a factory 10".

The flash hider/adapter holds it into the receiver.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - convince me not to Buy a PS90 (Page 2 of 3)

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