Let's talk about GM engines from the days of yore - Page 2

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Posted: 6/3/2010 6:19:41 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I grew up in the days of the Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It will probably get pretty hard to find parts for them when they go out. It would probably be easier just to get a Chevy 327/350 etc for it, but the engine mounts may not line up etc. I don't think GM has made an Oldmobile rocket V8 in maybe 20-25 years. Are you restoring an older GM car and need the authencity?

No, not restoring anything yet. But the desire is there, even if the time, money, and expertise isn't.

Did the Rocket 88 have a better or worse reputation than its contemporaries?

We dropped a 68 [or so] Olds Rocket 350 into my Dads 84" diesel Delta 88. For what looked like a barge, [we left the diesel badges on] it hauled ass. When we sold it, the buyer took it down the street and it was obvious he stopped and floored it because you could hear the tires light up for several seconds. Guy came back and bought it on the spot with no dickering and a grin on his face.

Old Olds Toronado with the 455 would roll also, Dad ran down some biker who kicked in the side of it and "assisted" him to the side of the road whereapon the gent kindly offered up the dough to fix it.

Bet the biker was a bit surprised to see his ass run down by a luxury car. [with a 7 foot long hood]

10MPG was the norm for it tho and he sold it on and bought a Dodge Colt. It somehow lacked the panache of the Toronado.

Posted: 6/3/2010 6:20:35 PM EDT

[#2]

http://www.oldgmctrucks.com/page0293.html
How about a how to adjust valve lash on a straight 6 GMC 302 cu.in engine

or
A link to the Stovebolt http://www.stovebolt.com/
nothin like a splash oiled chevy six purring down the road at 45 mph

edit frigging spelling

Posted: 6/3/2010 6:25:41 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
http://www.oldgmctrucks.com/page0293.html
How about a how to adjust valve lash on a straight 6 GMC 302 cu.in engine

or
A link to the Stovebolt http://www.stovebolt.com/
nothin like a splash oiled chevy six purring down the road at 45 mph

edit frigging spelling

Toyota basically stole that engine for the Land Cruiser.

And lets not forget the ultimate POS, the Caddy 4,6,8 "it's time to break" variable displacement engine.

Posted: 6/3/2010 6:32:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
snip

Your avatar is damn freaky.

Posted: 6/3/2010 6:49:55 PM EDT

[#5]

I tended to like Fod motors better just because my grandma gave me her 69 dual exhaust 429 cobra jet LTD when I was 17. Grandpa had bought it for her with the towing package because they had a fishing boat he liked to take us fishing with. That car scared grandma to death though because she said it left rubber everytime a light turned green. Grandpa had bought her a nice VW camper that still had enough power to pull the boat and he thought it would be cool for me to have that car too.

Anyway, my friends all called it the sleeper because it looked just like an old woman's car. But in the hands of a immortal 17 year old driver, it would smoke the pants off of any muscle car of it's day. I've like Ford motors ever since.

That being said, my dad had a pretty freakin awesome 1/2 GMC pickup with a 454 that was a sleeper too.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:01:14 PM EDT

[#6]

I miss ye olde 671.

I used to have a GMC with a 250 integra-head straight 6. Also 3 on the tree. Fun truck.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:06:14 PM EDT

[#7]

Electronic ignitions can be fitted to the old motors fairly easily, and a carb doesn't necessarily mean hard starting. I had an old 69' Pontiac w/ a manually choked 4-barrel. If it didn't start on the first turn of the key, you knew it would on the second––At 30 below.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:08:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
.
.
They had some neat ones too. the 215 straight six which was the std chevy block but with Pontiac's aluminum OHC head. The HO had a 4 barrel LOL. We had one in a Tempest with a 4brl. Not a GTO but it would get up and go.

Back then it was known as the "poor man's Ferarrri." This OHC-6 was the only USA-made engine with an overhead cam. It was until much, much later that the OHCs came into the USA-built cars. From what I can remember the 4-BBL carb didn't make much more power, but it consumed a lot of gas.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:09:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Chevy 327.......... My engine of choice. Take one every day over every other small block.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:10:42 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I was always an old school Pontiac guy. They had some serious iron.

421 HO and the 421 SD, which could make a Catalina or GP get up and haul. Then the 428 was another good Pontiac engine. Pontiac only had one block per say (301 had a shorter deck but mostly same size block) but the big bore got bigger cranks, 3.25 or so journals. You should see one out of the block, man. But then that is why most did not have high revs. But great low and mid.

I like the smaller cid motors. 326 was a good all around motor as the 350. But my love was the 400. Even in the smog strangled 76 Grand Prix, when that carb opened up and the secondaries kicked in, man what a sound and a feeling.

They had some neat ones too. the 215 straight six which was the std chevy block but with Pontiac's aluminum OHC head. The HO had a 4 barrel LOL. We had one in a Tempest with a 4brl. Not a GTO but it would get up and go.

IM me for my contact info - you'll want to come over and kick the living shit out of me for the following.

1977 - bought my first car, a 1969 Firebird. 350 2 bbl with turbo 400, highway gears, flawless black interior, A/C. 55K miles for $1100. Headers/tires and wheels/4bbl intake and Holley, took the A/C stuff off (including the condenser), carved a Craig Powerplay 8-track into the dash and coaxial speakers into the rear deck and rear armrests - had Pablo Cruise and Bob Seger bumpin' at the drive-in, I did.
And I drove it like a 17 year old, too. Worst thing that happened to that car: me buying it. It was broken trash after I owned it for a year and a half, and sold it for half of what I had in it.

Because...

I found another '69 for sale. Competition Orange 400 with the fake scoop hood, working hood tach and Muncie 4 speed. Gauge package all working, cherry interior. 72k miles for $1300. Decided to leave it bone stock, except wheels, tires and headers (of course). It was oh-shit fast, and I couldn't be beat through three gears (4.11 gears).

For two months, anyway...I missed second and porcupined the #3 con rod through the block when I redlined the motor. Had a regular job I didn't want to lose and needed transportation...and bought a new Mazda 626. Sold the 400 Firebird for $1000. If I'd have known back then...

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:16:09 PM EDT

[#11]

My parents were into old Pontiac cars, I remember growing up with great V8's and REAL torque.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:19:36 PM EDT

[#12]

My Dad's car was an Eldorado with a 500.

Mom's car - later mine to use - was a Toronado with the 455 4/bbl twin pipe.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:25:08 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Six banger, Chevy 235, 'nuff said!

Same with the Iron Horse Ford 300.

But dads gmc 305 v6 is still going strong after many yrs of little to no maintance.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:56:21 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I grew up in the days of the Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It will probably get pretty hard to find parts for them when they go out. It would probably be easier just to get a Chevy 327/350 etc for it, but the engine mounts may not line up etc. I don't think GM has made an Oldmobile rocket V8 in maybe 20-25 years. Are you restoring an older GM car and need the authencity?

No, not restoring anything yet. But the desire is there, even if the time, money, and expertise isn't.

Did the Rocket 88 have a better or worse reputation than its contemporaries?

We dropped a 68 [or so] Olds Rocket 350 into my Dads 84" diesel Delta 88. For what looked like a barge, [we left the diesel badges on] it hauled ass. When we sold it, the buyer took it down the street and it was obvious he stopped and floored it because you could hear the tires light up for several seconds. Guy came back and bought it on the spot with no dickering and a grin on his face.

Old Olds Toronado with the 455 would roll also, Dad ran down some biker who kicked in the side of it and "assisted" him to the side of the road whereapon the gent kindly offered up the dough to fix it.

Bet the biker was a bit surprised to see his ass run down by a luxury car. [with a 7 foot long hood]

10MPG was the norm for it tho and he sold it on and bought a Dodge Colt. It somehow lacked the panache of the Toronado.

My Delta 88 was seafoam green with just a hint of rust on the trunk lid.
Bone stock (except for the 455), diesel badged, it even had the fakey spoke wheels.
It looked like your grandfather's car.

I had that car in the mid 90's, it was around the time that ricing was becoming popular.
All of the little sideways baseball hat teenage pukes in my AO were driving dropped Jap pickups and were starting to figure out that you could put Accord motors in Civics.
They'd pull up at the light and rev their little ricers.
I'd just stomp on the hammer, the Olds would slide sideways on it's stock tires a little and then blast off with a V8 howl in a cloud of un-catalyzed smoke.

It was my daily driver but all that torque actually made it a little squirrely in the snow and rain.
The rear tended to slide out even when I wasn't hot rodding.
Everybody should own a car like that at least once in their lives and I pity the children who never will.

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:00:11 PM EDT

[#15]

I've built a few SBC in previous years. Had a beaut of 300HP 327 in a primered '63 Impala SS in High School ('95). Built a nasty screamer 283ci for a friends Nova and a few others along the way.

Right now I'm building a '56 Belair with an LS1 and a '66 Chevy truck with hopefully a Turbo'd 6.2L

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:29:35 PM EDT

[#16]

I've got a '72 Olds Delta 88 Royale sitting in my driveway, waiting for me to restore the interior. I spent a couple of years in my free time repairing the extensive body rot, now I've just got to do the interior.

I bought it in 1987. It had been abandoned in a field for three years after the original owner died. It was horribly rusted in the back, the trunk was full of water. I bought it for $300. The battery had lost charge over time, so I jumpstarted it and drove it home.

It was my daily driver for 12 years. In 1999 I got a new car, but kept the Olds. It got horrible gas mileage, 13 mpg or so, but could put down incredible power. It has a Rocket 350 engine, and a Turbo-Hydramatic 375 transmission (a TH400 with a TH350 rear). Just a 2-barrel carbeurator, though. It loved to cruise along at 70 on the highway. It was like sitting on a big comfy couch and watching the world slide by. Ah, the Great American Road.

Now, when I moved into my house in 2001 I drove it there and left it in the driveway. I didn't try and start it until 2009. Eight years had passed. Battery had died, and the condensor wires had rusted through, but once I charged the battery and put a new condensor on, it started right up and purred. Oh, I did change the oil and filter before trying to start it.

I think those are great engines. Not fuel efficient, but they weren't meant to be.

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:34:07 PM EDT

[#17]

My old timey Buick engine............

That goes into this..............

But I think this engine.............

Or this one are a hell of lot easier to diagnose and work on. Only because I grew up with EFI and learned to work on those systems first.

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:40:55 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

TPI....cause that shit looks cool......
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/photopost/direct_data/1077/medium/200380ZZ4_TPI_2.JPG

NVMND

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:43:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I grew up in the days of the Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It will probably get pretty hard to find parts for them when they go out. It would probably be easier just to get a Chevy 327/350 etc for it, but the engine mounts may not line up etc. I don't think GM has made an Oldmobile rocket V8 in maybe 20-25 years. Are you restoring an older GM car and need the authencity?

This. I had a Rocket 350 in one of my Cutlasses and a Rocket 455 in another. Both topped with Quadrajets. Woooomp WOOOOOO!

I still have a Quadajet in my garage somewhere. I had to overhaul one of those things, and the linkage was a bitch to put together. I remember the Olds 442, 4-speed manual w/Hurst shifter, 4 BBL carb, & dual exhaust.

Don't you mean QuadraJUNK?

If it were not for the Quadrajet Holley and Edelbrock would have never been in business.

A properly set up and tuned q-jet will out perform a Holley or Edlebrock carb.

Posted: 6/3/2010 8:59:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My 1989 Pontiac Sunbird came with a 2.0L I4 engine that put out a whopping 96hp from the factory.

Ten years later, my 1999 Saturn SL1 came with a 1.9L SOHC that put out 100hp. That's progress!

and 2008 my sky redline 2.0 pumps out 260 stock, but after ecm tune and few small but expensive goodies should be just over 300hp(i would guess). (hahn inter cooler(made big difference before the tune), on GM tune and magnaflow pipes).

I still have to say that smooth new engines are no substitute for a nicely cammed v8 naturally aspirated engine. Yum Yum. I wish I had the time and money to take on a project car.- I'm envious of all of you that do.

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:17:10 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I've got a '72 Olds Delta 88 Royale sitting in my driveway, waiting for me to restore the interior. I spent a couple of years in my free time repairing the extensive body rot, now I've just got to do the interior.

I bought it in 1987. It had been abandoned in a field for three years after the original owner died. It was horribly rusted in the back, the trunk was full of water. I bought it for $300. The battery had lost charge over time, so I jumpstarted it and drove it home.

It was my daily driver for 12 years. In 1999 I got a new car, but kept the Olds. It got horrible gas mileage, 13 mpg or so, but could put down incredible power. It has a Rocket 350 engine, and a Turbo-Hydramatic 375 transmission (a TH400 with a TH350 rear). Just a 2-barrel carbeurator, though. It loved to cruise along at 70 on the highway. It was like sitting on a big comfy couch and watching the world slide by. Ah, the Great American Road.

Now, when I moved into my house in 2001 I drove it there and left it in the driveway. I didn't try and start it until 2009. Eight years had passed. Battery had died, and the condensor wires had rusted through, but once I charged the battery and put a new condensor on, it started right up and purred. Oh, I did change the oil and filter before trying to start it.

I think those are great engines. Not fuel efficient, but they weren't meant to be.

I had a 76' Royale coupe. Another $300 daily driver.

The nicest specimen I ever saw was a black on red convertible I spotted in Norfolk, VA.
I was driving around looking for a party and saw it unattended, idling in front of somebodies house.
Didn't look like it had been restored, just well maintained.
Very clean, very pretty.

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:23:08 PM EDT

[#22]

Those carburetor equipped Chevy V-8s made Ford Pintos go fast.

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:32:30 PM EDT

[#23]

I can go old school Muscle car Chevy on ya. I've built a few Fords also but I don't mess with them anymore.

Here's my latest motor.

Big block Chevy. 454 .030 0ver (468 ci)

Crower roller cam 282/295 @ .050, .753/.721 lift.

Comp roller lifters

Smith bros 7/16 push rods

Comp Ultra pro magnum roller rockers.

Dart pro one 325 heads

Manley severe duty race valves, locks and titanium retainers.

Comp stud girdle.

Eagle 4340 forged crank

Eagle 4340 h-beam rods with ARP L-19 rod bolts

Ross forged 51 cc dome racing pistons.

ATI super dampner

Team G Weiand intake

Pro Systems 1050 Dominator carb

Here it is installed. I'll go to a test and tune next Friday and see what it does.

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:37:20 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Old school carb'd motors. Yeah the GM offerings were all unique back then. A list just off the top of my head, I'm sure I missed some. I didn't list the more modern motors such as the 502 BB and the 383 SB Chevys.

Small block Chevy 262, 265, 267, 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, 400 cubic inches.

Big block Chevy 396, 402, 427, 454

Don't forget the really early 409 and 390ish W motors.

Buick 215, 300, 340, 350, 400(?), 430, 455

Oldsmobile 260, 307, 350, 403, 425 455

Pontiac 265, 301, 326, 350, 389, 400, 421, 428, 455

Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge. The Mopars.

Small block 273, 318, 340, 360

Big block 383, 392 Hemi, 400, 413, 426 wedge, 426 Hemi, 440

I'm not a Ford guy but I'll give it a shot.

Ford small blocks 289, 302, Boss 302, 351C, 351W

Ford big blocks 427, 428, 429, 429 Boss (hemi head), 460

I know I missed a bunch. They were easy to work on and I wouldn't be afraid to tear into any of them.

added some GM....left out the slew of 50's to mid 60's BOP sizes that led up to the commonly known ones

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:48:00 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge. The Mopars.

Small block 273, 318, 340, 360

Big block 383, 392 Hemi, 400, 413, 426 wedge, 426 Hemi, 440
I know I missed a bunch. They were easy to work on and I wouldn't be afraid to tear into any of them.

Chrysler FirePower: 301, 331, 354, 392

DeSoto Fire Dome: 276, 291, 330, 341, 345

Dodge Red Ram: 241, 270, 315, 325

Collectively, these were the "Baby Hemis".

Posted: 6/3/2010 10:56:39 PM EDT

[#26]

I had one of these goofy-ass motors for a while

sorry for the crappy pic, my google-fu is bad at the moment and I don't have any of my own on this computer.

3.1Liter V6 turbocharged and intercooled.

I had mine tweaked to about 260-280HP and an assloads of torque.

Came in one of these:

1990 ASC/McLaren Grand Prix 1 of 3180

Thing had features NOTHING else had in 1990 for even twice the price.

I ran it with a straight exhaust, no mufflers, custom tuned chip, air filter strapped directly to turbo. It already came from the factory with a 3 core radiator, separate oil and trans coolers, front-mount A2A intercooler, cold air induction, fuel pump and injectors from the old ZR1 vette, 245's on 8" rims, 22 way power seats, primitive nav system, front and rear buckets, Hughes heads up display. Fucking spaceship, and sounded like an F-15 in full-raep mode.

This thing was a hole-shot beast. Short, traffic-light dragraces were awesome in this thing. Brake-torque to build revs to about 2300 and boost to about 6 or 7lbs, light goes green, wave "bye bye" to the mustang GT or 3000GT VR4 or WRX next to me and floor the gas for maximum raep!

Car ran out of steam at about 60mph for a bit though, or if the IC got heat-soaked, it would drop a good 20-30hp, but for hole-shots on cool nights, it was awesome.

Posted: 6/3/2010 11:13:05 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
...Cadillac had a 500 CI engine during the 70's as well. Subject of one of the greatest magazine articles ever - Caddyhack. HotRod magazine took a stock 70's something lead sled Caddy with a 500" engine and ran a 26 second run in the 1/4 mile. Then they started hacking off parts/weight and eventually got it down to nothing but a frame, an engine, and a seat and it was around a 10 second range car lol.

My first car was a 72 Sedan Deville with the 500. I stripped everything non-essential and the bumper would pretty much drag on acceleration. Gobs of torque, and tough to see where you were going. I'm pretty sure the hood was large enough to land an F14 on it with proper arresting gear.

Random thoughts:

Those that knock the Q-jet haven't rebuilt enough of them. They work incredibly when properly set up (this coming from a guy that prefers Holleys).

The late 60's, early 70's Buick smalblocks were fun to work on, but a bitch to find parts for.

Small block Chevy's are ubiquitous for a reason. Don't get them hot and they'll last forever. Points engines can be converted to HEI with a distributor and plug wire swap. Splice two wires, set the timing and you're GTG. They are the AK of the automotive world.

My personal opinion is that a 383 stroker based on a pre-86 block running TPI is about the most perfect internal combustion engine ever created. Some time in the early 90's, I saw a local guy had built up a 68 Camaro convertible with the aforementioned engine. At the time, not many folks were doing the resto-rod thing. It was pure sex then, and I think it still is.

Posted: 6/3/2010 11:29:02 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Six banger, Chevy 235, 'nuff said!

I decided to pull off the rocker cover on my 58 Bel Air and paint it. Underneath it was bone dry because there was no oil filter on the car and the oil passages in the head had all clogged up. The rocker shaft and rocker arms were in bad shape, but had been for years without failing. I decided to fix the cylinder head, but I couldn't be without transportation.

I remembered a guy from school several blocks away was parting out his 58 with a 235 in it. I went over there and told him I wanted the cylinder head. Some other guy wanted something from underneath, the rear end maybe. So they grunted the car onto its side in the driveway. While some kids were wrenching on the bottom side I was pulling head bolts, and finally the cylinder head fell off into the dirt.

I took it to a shop to have the valves reground, etc, etc, and got back a cylinder head ready to install. I got a gasket kit on the way home from work, pulled into the driveway and began unbolting my old head. After scraping off the old head gasket I slapped the "new" head on and went through adjusting the rocker arms like the Motor Manual said to.

I got the distributor back in with some difficulty, not realizing that the screwdriver shaped end of the distributor shaft was supposed to fit into a matching slot in the top of the oil pump. The distributor shaft worm gear didn't quite mesh right with the cam shaft, but it ran OK, just a little noisy for some reason.

I had also decided to slap on the classic triple ammeter/water temp/oil pressure gauge set under the dash and drove several miles to the parts store and back again. After installing all the gauge crap I fired it up again and noticed no oil pressure at all. Back to the Motor Manual.

Oh shit, the oil pump / distributor shaft thing! The distributor drove the oil pump! Oh shit!

I pulled the distributor back out and fiddled with it all until the distributor dropped into place properly, engaging both the cam gear and oil pump shaft. Magic - we now got oil pressure!

Now I wouldn't dream of taking on such a major job after work and expect to drive the car to work in the morning.

It was pretty hard to hurt one of those old Stovebolts.

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:11:10 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
My experience:

GM 283 small block was the best in the reliability and mileage catagory. I was getting 22 MPG with a bored 283 in the early 80"s in a 5000 lb car.

.

There are more than one chevy 350 blocks, the best ones are 1972 and earlier, most of the 350 problems were from the emissions junk and putting too small of a radiator in front of them.

The Olds 350 Rocket was a hell of a good engine, very reliable and plenty of power I loved my cutlass and never hardly ever did anything to the engine.

For longevity EFI is the only way to go , it is my opinion that engines with properly metered fuel last much longer because of the problem with worn out carbs "washing the cylinder walls down with fuel and promoting premature wear. But I liked my Holly double pumpers for the FUN FACTOR.

For parts today you will probably have to stick to a small block chevy . HOWEVER, I HAVE AT LEAST ONE 327 2 BOLT MAIN IN THE SHED THAT I WOULD PART WITH . But it is in unknown condition, probably should clean up and rebuild ....

damn skippy! that and the 327 were damn good engines

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:15:45 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Old school carb'd motors. Yeah the GM offerings were all unique back then. A list just off the top of my head, I'm sure I missed some. I didn't list the more modern motors such as the 502 BB and the 383 SB Chevys.

Small block Chevy 283, 302, 305, 327, 350, 400 cubic inches.

Big block Chevy 396, 402, 427, 454

Don't forget the really early 409 and 390ish W motors.

Buick 350, 400(?), 430, 455

Oldsmobile 330, 350, 455

Pontiac 350, 400, 428, 455

Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge. The Mopars.

Small block 273, 318, 340, 360

Big block 383, 392 Hemi, 400, 413, 426 wedge, 426 Hemi, 440

I'm not a Ford guy but I'll give it a shot.

Ford small blocks 289, 302, Boss 302, 351C, 351W

Ford big blocks 427, 428, 429, 429 Boss (hemi head), 460

I know I missed a bunch. They were easy to work on and I wouldn't be afraid to tear into any of them.

Olds also had a 442.

Posted: 6/4/2010 2:43:49 AM EDT

[#31]

Pontiac V8 engines F'in rule! Hence my discrete screen name. Real Pontiac engines, not the 301. I am apparently not the only one that thinks so, since the aftermarket Pontiac world is probably the best it has ever been, despite the engines being out of production since 1978 (Again, not counting the POS 301). Today you can assemble an old-school Pontiac V8 entirely out of aftermarket parts, including the block. Stroker kits, multiple aftermarket cylinder head choices, fuel injection setups.

And I own and modify both true Pontiac powered and modern chevy powered V8 vehicles. Modern fuel injection has its benefits, but sometimes I enjoy old school simplicity.

So, to summarize, Pontiac engines rock!

Posted: 6/4/2010 3:10:38 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I grew up in the days of the Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It will probably get pretty hard to find parts for them when they go out. It would probably be easier just to get a Chevy 327/350 etc for it, but the engine mounts may not line up etc. I don't think GM has made an Oldmobile rocket V8 in maybe 20-25 years. Are you restoring an older GM car and need the authencity?

This. I had a Rocket 350 in one of my Cutlasses and a Rocket 455 in another. Both topped with Quadrajets. Woooomp WOOOOOO!

I still have a Quadajet in my garage somewhere. I had to overhaul one of those things, and the linkage was a bitch to put together. I remember the Olds 442, 4-speed manual w/Hurst shifter, 4 BBL carb, & dual exhaust.

Don't you mean QuadraJUNK?

If it were not for the Quadrajet Holley and Edelbrock would have never been in business.

A properly set up and tuned q-jet will out perform a Holley or Edlebrock carb.

While that may be true, and I don't doubt it, honestly how many of them were ever tuned properly? Not everyone is a gear head and those things tended to turn to bricks after a few years of normal use. The chokes would stick and bowls would leak, the jets would plug and rather than rebuild a OEM carb that most thought was undersized anyway, it was way easier to toss on a shiny new Holley or Eddie on there.

Posted: 6/4/2010 4:01:53 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I can go old school Muscle car Chevy on ya. I've built a few Fords also but I don't mess with them anymore.

Here's my latest motor.

Big block Chevy. 454 .030 0ver (468 ci)
Crower roller cam 282/295 @ .050, .753/.721 lift.
Comp roller lifters
Smith bros 7/16 push rods
Comp Ultra pro magnum roller rockers.
Dart pro one 325 heads
Manley severe duty race valves, locks and titanium retainers.
Comp stud girdle.
Eagle 4340 forged crank
Eagle 4340 h-beam rods with ARP L-19 rod bolts
Ross forged 51 cc dome racing pistons.
ATI super dampner
Team G Weiand intake
Pro Systems 1050 Dominator carb
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/bulletbob223/4682.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/bulletbob223/4683.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/bulletbob223/4681.jpg

Here it is installed. I'll go to a test and tune next Friday and see what it does.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/bulletbob223/engine1.jpg

Dober, NICE Chevelle.

I'm drooling over that BBC motor too. After I finish the resto on our '86 Silverado my wife and I are gonna be looking to do a big block Nova

Pics like this are an inspiration.

Posted: 6/4/2010 5:01:37 AM EDT

[#34]

My first car was a 1971 Pontiac Ventura with the Chevy 250 in line 6. One barrel carb...easy as shit to work on, tough engine....

Second car was a 1970 GTO, started with a swapped out motor, a Poncho 350 with a two barrel. That got swapped out for a 400 from a '69 Grand Prix in short order.....Again, easy to work on, accessable engine (except the headers on the drivers side were blocked a bit by the steering shaft...changing was still easy...) Engine swap was easy as heck, too, pull the radiator, pull off grill (or the Endura bumper

), simple wiring...

1977 Firebird with the 350 had so much smog crap on it it was a PITA to work on..... still the nicest riding car I've owned, though.

Buddy has a 1972 Firebird with a 455.....that car flipping SCREAMED......

I can still tell an old Pontiac engine by the sound.... I was at a restaraunt last year and heard a car start up, nice throaty growl...I perked up, my sister said " that sounds like a muscle car" I replied "It sounds like a Pontiac." Sure enough, it was a 1965 GTO, 389, four barrel.

with the top down. I miss my old Goat.

Posted: 6/4/2010 5:22:31 AM EDT

[#35]

One thing you have to worry over with old V8's is availability of parts. My brothers '66 Park Lane has a "410 Marauder" (basically a stroked 390 Ford big block), he had it recently rebuilt and the guy told him if the crank would have been bad he would have been screwed. I've got a '65 273cid in my Dodge, parts, if you can find them, are triple the cost of something like a chevy 350.

I still love it when some young guy points at the carb and says "whats that".

eta: the 273 in my '65 Dodge is the same size as the motor in my 2004 Tundra

Posted: 6/4/2010 5:24:19 AM EDT

[#36]

327. Best ever.

283 close second.

Posted: 6/4/2010 5:24:26 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I was always an old school Pontiac guy. They had some serious iron.

421 HO and the 421 SD, which could make a Catalina or GP get up and haul. Then the 428 was another good Pontiac engine. Pontiac only had one block per say (301 had a shorter deck but mostly same size block) but the big bore got bigger cranks, 3.25 or so journals. You should see one out of the block, man. But then that is why most did not have high revs. But great low and mid.

I like the smaller cid motors. 326 was a good all around motor as the 350. But my love was the 400. Even in the smog strangled 76 Grand Prix, when that carb opened up and the secondaries kicked in, man what a sound and a feeling.

They had some neat ones too. the 215 straight six which was the std chevy block but with Pontiac's aluminum OHC head. The HO had a 4 barrel LOL. We had one in a Tempest with a 4brl. Not a GTO but it would get up and go.

IM me for my contact info - you'll want to come over and kick the living shit out of me for the following.

1977 - bought my first car, a 1969 Firebird. 350 2 bbl with turbo 400, highway gears, flawless black interior, A/C. 55K miles for $1100. Headers/tires and wheels/4bbl intake and Holley, took the A/C stuff off (including the condenser), carved a Craig Powerplay 8-track into the dash and coaxial speakers into the rear deck and rear armrests - had Pablo Cruise and Bob Seger bumpin' at the drive-in, I did.

And I drove it like a 17 year old, too. Worst thing that happened to that car: me buying it. It was broken trash after I owned it for a year and a half, and sold it for half of what I had in it.

Because...

I found another '69 for sale. Competition Orange 400 with the fake scoop hood, working hood tach and Muncie 4 speed. Gauge package all working, cherry interior. 72k miles for $1300. Decided to leave it bone stock, except wheels, tires and headers (of course). It was oh-shit fast, and I couldn't be beat through three gears (4.11 gears).

For two months, anyway...I missed second and porcupined the #3 con rod through the block when I redlined the motor. Had a regular job I didn't want to lose and needed transportation...and bought a new Mazda 626. Sold the 400 Firebird for $1000. If I'd have known back then...

I Feel Your Pain™

I drove a '74 Z-28 and then a '72 Chevelle when I was a teenager... I don't have either one of them now.

Posted: 6/4/2010 8:10:12 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Olds also had a 442.

Yes they did. It originally came with a 330 or a 400 CID engine.

4-barrel carburetor

4-speed transmission

2-(dual) exhaust

Later on, it was:

4-hundred cubic inch

4-barrel carburetor

2-(dual) exhaust

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:00:11 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
That goes into this..............

We might need to move this to BOTD. That is hot.

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:03:53 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My 1989 Pontiac Sunbird came with a 2.0L I4 engine that put out a whopping 96hp from the factory.

Ten years later, my 1999 Saturn SL1 came with a 1.9L SOHC that put out 100hp. That's progress!

and 2008 my sky redline 2.0 pumps out 260 stock, but after ecm tune and few small but expensive goodies should be just over 300hp(i would guess). (hahn inter cooler(made big difference before the tune), on GM tune and magnaflow pipes).

I still have to say that smooth new engines are no substitute for a nicely cammed v8 naturally aspirated engine. Yum Yum. I wish I had the time and money to take on a project car.- I'm envious of all of you that do.

I had that 2.0L turbo engine in my 2004 9-3, albeit not putting out as much power. The engine in that thing was, by far, the best thing about that car. Passing power was absolutely amazing.

And I'm jealous of your Sky. Gorgeous car.

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:11:59 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

215 CID Aluminum V8 used in Buick, Olds and Pontiac.

This engine design and tooling ended up being sold to British Leyland and was used for many vehicles including Land Rover, Triumph, Morgan and others.

GM experimented with aluminum engines starting in the early 1950s. An early development model was used in the 1951 Le Sabre concept car,[1] and work on a production unit commenced in 1956. Originally intended for 180-cubic-inch (2.9 L) displacement, Buick was designated by GM as the engine design leader, and decided to begin with a larger, 215-cubic-inch (3.5 L) size, which was deemed ideal for the new "senior compact cars" introduced for the 1961 model year. This group of cars was commonly referred to as the "B-O-P" group — for Buick-Olds-Pontiac — or the Y-bodies.

Known variously as the Fireball and Skylark by Buick (and as Rockette, Cutlass, and Turbo-Rocket by Oldsmobile),[2] the 215 had a 4.24 in (108 mm) bore spacing, a bore of 3.5 in (89 mm), and a stroke of 2.8 in (71 mm), for an actual displacement of 215.5 cu in (3,531 cc). The engine was the lightest mass-production V8 in the world, with a dry weight of only 318 lb (144 kg). Measuring 28 in (71 cm) long, 26 in (66 cm) wide, and 27 in (69 cm) high (same as the small-block Chevy)[3] it was standard equipment in the 1961 Buick Special.

Oldsmobile and Pontiac also used the all-aluminum 215 on its mid-sized cars, the Oldsmobile F-85, Cutlass and Jetfire, and Pontiac Tempest and LeMans. Pontiac used the Buick version of the 215; Oldsmobile had its own. The Oldsmobile version of this engine, although sharing the same basic architecture, had cylinder heads designed by Oldsmobile engineers, and was produced on a separate assembly line. Among the differences between the Oldsmobile and Buick versions, it was somewhat heavier, at 350 lb (160 kg). The design differences were in the cylinder heads: Buick used a 5-bolt pattern around each cylinder where Oldsmobile went to a 6-bolt pattern. The 6th bolt was added to the intake manifold side of the head, one extra bolt for each cylinder, meant to alleviate a head-warping problem on high-compression versions. This meant that Oldsmobile heads would go on Buick blocks, but not vice versa, and that changing the compression ratio on an Oldsmobile 215 required changing the heads, but on a Buick 215, only the pistons, which was less expensive and simpler. For these reasons, the more common Buick version has today also emerged as more desirable. Later Rover versions of the aluminum block and subsequent Buick iron small blocks (300, 340, and 350) went to a 4-bolt-per-cylinder pattern.

At introduction, Buick's 215 was rated 150 hp (110 kW) at 4400 rpm. This was raised soon after introduction to 155 hp (116 kW) at 4600 rpm. 220 ft·lb (298 N·m) of torque was produced at 2400 rpm with a Rochester 2GC (DualJet) two-barrel carburetor and 8.8:1 compression ratio. A mid-year introduction was the Buick Special Skylark version, which had 10.25:1 compression and a four-barrel carburetor, raising output to 185 hp (138 kW) at 4800 rpm and 230 ft·lb (312 N·m) at 2800 rpm.

For 1962, the four-barrel engine increased the compression ratio to 10.25:1, raising it to 190 hp (140 kW) at 4800 rpm and 235 ft·lb (319 N·m) at 3000 rpm. The two-barrel engine was unchanged. For 1963, the four-barrel was bumped to 11:1 compression and an even 200 hp (150 kW) at 5000 rpm and 240 ft·lb (325 N·m) at 3200 rpm, a respectable 0.93 hp/cu in (56.6 hp/L).

Unfortunately, the great expense of the aluminum engine led to its cancellation after the 1963 model year. The engine had an abnormally high scrap ratio due to hidden block-casting porosity problems, which caused serious oil leaks. Another problem was clogged radiators from antifreeze mixtures incompatible with aluminum. It was said that one of the major problems was because they had to make extensive use of air gauging to check for casting leaks during the manufacturing process, and not being able to detect leaks on blocks that were as much as 95% complete. This raised the cost of complete engines to more than that of a comparable all cast-iron engine. Casting sealing technology was not advanced enough at that time to prevent the high scrap rates.

The Buick 215's very high power to weight ratio made it immediately interesting for automotive and marine racing. Mickey Thompson entered a stock-block Buick 215-powered car in the 1962 Indianapolis 500. From 1946-1962, there hadn't been a single stock-block car in this famous race. In 1962, the Buick 215 was the only non-Offenhauser powered entry in the field of 33 cars. Rookie driver Dan Gurney qualified eighth and raced well for 92 laps before retiring with transmission problems.

Surplus engine blocks of the Oldsmobile (6 bolt per cylinder) version of this engine formed the basis of the Formula One Repco V8 used by Brabham to win the 1966 and 1967 Formula One world championship. No other American stock-block engine has won a Formula One championship.

Rights to these engines were purchased by the British Rover Company and used in the 1967 Rover P5B that replaced the 3 L straight six Rover engined P5. Throughout the years, the Rover Co., which became part of British Leyland in 1968, and its successor companies constantly improved the engine making it much stronger and reliable. Capacities ranged from 3.5-5.0 L (215 to 307 in³). This engine was used for V8 versions of the MGB-GT known as the MGB GTV8. This came straight from the MG works at Abingdon-on-the-Thames. Rover also used the engine in the 1970 Range Rover which saw the engine successfully returning to the USA after the Range Rover's 1986 introduction. U.S. Buick 215s have also been engine swapped into countless other platforms, especially Chevrolet Vegas and later British cars MG sports cars including the MG RV8 in the 1990s. Triumph TR-8, and various sports sedans and sports cars by the MG Rover Group and some specialist manufacturers such as TVR and the Morgan Motor Company. The engine remains well supported by enthusiast clubs, specialist parts suppliers, and by shops that specialise in conversions and tuning.

The 215 was also used in a small sports car known as the Apollo in 1962-1963, as well as in the Asardo 3500 GM-S show car.

Although dropped by GM in 1963, the Rover V8 engine would remain in use for more than 35 years. GM tried to buy it back later on, but Rover declined, instead offering to sell engines back to GM. GM refused this offer.

In the mid-1980s, hot rodders discovered the 215 could be stretched to as much as 305 cu in (5 l), using the Buick 300 crankshaft, new cylinder sleeves, and an assortment of non-Buick parts.[4] It could also be fitted with high-compression cylinder heads from the Morgan +8. Using the 5 liter Rover block and crankshaft, a maximum displacement of 317.8 cu in (5,208 cc) is theoretically possible.[5]

This motor and a Datsun 510 is my dream.

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:26:34 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
*snip*
Now I wouldn't dream of taking on such a major job after work and expect to drive the car to work in the morning.

I think part of the reason why is that modern engine bays are generally cramped places. In some vehicles, half of the block is located under the cowl. The rest of it is obscured by 87,000 wires and hoses.

When you didn't have power steering pumps, brake boosters, ABS units, intercoolers, air conditioners, or cruise control, there was a bit more room. And if you were really lucky, the engine bay had space for a big block but all you had in there was a straight six or a small block.

Today, you need to get 3 ratchet extensions, a few u-joints, a T34A-67 torx bit, and stick your tongue out just right to get a spark plug out or remove a pulley bolt.

Just take the hose off that's in the way? Yeah, that's a radiator hose and your radiator doesn't have a petcock. Pull the lower hose off, and while it's draining, go take a shower to wash off all the antifreeze you got in your hair.

And the wire for the Murphy Sensor? Just take it off, but be sure not to snap the itty bitty clip that holds it on. Pull hard because there's 6 years of crud holding it on. But not too hard, and don't bend the contacts once it's off.

It's a jigsaw puzzle. Everything fits just perfectly. If the service manual says to do it in W, X, Y, Z order, you'd better.

Hair-pulling moment: to replace a headlight bulb on my 2007 Saturn Aura, the front fascia had to be removed. There was literally no room behind the headlight assembly to get to it. A fucking headlight.

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:31:13 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Olds also had a 442.

Yes they did. It originally came with a 330 or a 400 CID engine.

4-barrel carburetor
4-speed transmission
2-(dual) exhaust

Later on, it was:

4-hundred cubic inch
4-barrel carburetor
2-(dual) exhaust

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/1970olds442.jpg

A friend has a 1991 (?) Cutlass Calais W41 442.

4-cylinder engine
4 valves per cylinder
2 camshafts

(In before the FWD 4-cylinder haters)

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:59:10 AM EDT

[#44]

First car had a Ford 460 in it. Drove that around Dallas during the 2006-2007 school year. Not the fastest car by far, but the look on peoples faces when a land barge gets sideways and lays rubber is pretty hysterical

Posted: 6/4/2010 12:54:48 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Small block Chevy 262, 265, 267,

Elaborate please. It's been an article of faith with me that the 265 was the original Chevy small block and all subsequent sbs flowed from it. Whence came (and went) these 2623 and 267s of which you speak? I seem to recall a 262 ci six, but a V8?

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:20:39 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

I'm not a Ford guy but I'll give it a shot.

Ford small blocks 289, 302, Boss 302, 351C, 351W

Ford big blocks 427, 428, 429, 429 Boss (hemi head), 460

snip

Ford Windsor Motors: 221, 260, 289, 302, Boss 302*, 351W
* Boss 302 was a Windsor block with Cleveland Heads (335 series)

335 Series: 351C, 400M, 351M

FE Series: 332, 352, 360, 390, 402, 410, 427, 428

385 Series: 429, Boss 429, 460

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:42:14 PM EDT

[#47]

One of the weirdest GM motors I ever owned came in my 1976 Buick Skyhawk - the 231 "odd-fire" V6.

Basically it was a 305 V8 with the two front cylinders chopped off. Literally. Remember those giant V8 HEI distributors with the ignition coil in the center of the cap? This motor had one but it went 4 wires, then a blank spot, and two wires, then a blank spot. It had a very unique, rough idle.

A few years later GM changed the crank and cam and created the "even-fire" V6 which was renamed the 3.8l or 3800 and was used for many years.

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:46:51 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm not a Ford guy but I'll give it a shot.

Ford small blocks 289, 302, Boss 302, 351C, 351W

Ford big blocks 427, 428, 429, 429 Boss (hemi head), 460

snip

Ford Windsor Motors: 221, 260, 289, 302, Boss 302*, 351W
* Boss 302 was a Windsor block with Cleveland Heads (335 series)

335 Series: 351C, 400M, 351M

FE Series: 332, 352, 360, 390, 402, 410, 427, 428

385 Series: 429, Boss 429, 460

You both left off the 312 Thunderbird Special.

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:49:33 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
A few years later GM changed the crank and cam and created the "even-fire" V6 which was renamed the 3.8l or 3800 and was used for many years.

I submit that the 3800 Buick-sourced V6 is one of the best V6 engines ever produced.

Posted: 6/4/2010 1:50:10 PM EDT

[#50]

A friend of mine had a 472 cubic inch Cadillac engine in his 1980 Chevy Malibu 2 door. With a TH400, 4:10 gears, and slicks, he ran 12.40's in the quarter all day long...and the car idled like a stocker, and didn't really sound like anything special.

Another buddy of mine actually built a 392 cubic inch "Clevor" (stroked 351 Windsor block) where he mated a set of Cleveland 4V heads and intake to a windsor block. That thing was a dog below about 4000 rpms, but from 4000 to about 7500, it was an absolute beast. It was almost undriveable on the street...but was a legitimate low 10 second car at the drag strip.

Hax

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Let's talk about GM engines from the days of yore (Page 2 of 3)

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