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HardShell
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:47:48 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 3:51:38 PM by HardShell]
I searched, if it's a DUPE I didn't see it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/the-collapse-of-the-ar-15_b_485957.html


Josh Sugarmann

Executive director of the Violence Policy Center in Washington, DC.

Posted: March 4, 2010 01:55 PM


The Collapse of the AR-15 Assault Weapon Market



One of the greatest talents of the National Rifle Association and the gun industry has been their ability exploit high-profile events to pump up gun sales: Bill Clinton, the Brady Bill, the federal assault weapons "ban," Y2K, September 11th, and now, of course, Barack Obama. Regardless of the event, the solution remains the same: buy a gun, preferably––if industry and gun fan mags are any indication––an AR-15 assault rifle.

Left unstated by the gun lobby, and virtually unnoticed by the news media, is that when gun sales do rise (and that isn't always the case despite the gun lobby's best efforts), they eventually drop––sometimes precipitously.

And sometimes, as Michael Kassnar, president of AR-15 manufacturer KBI/Charles Daly, explains, there's a "market collapse." Kassnar should know––he's just shut his business' doors.

According to the March 1, 2010, edition of The New Gun Week:

One factor that contributed to the company's closure was what Kassner called a "collapse" of the market in mid-2009 for semiautomatic sport utility rifles, the so-called "black guns" designed on the AR-15 platform.
In other words, AR-15 assault rifles, but let us continue.

He said the rush to purchase those firearms came to a halt in about July, leaving him with a "warehouse full of guns nobody wanted."

Orders for about $8 million worth of firearms were cancelled, he said, leaving KBI/Charles Daly essentially high and dry for the second half of the 2009 sales year. It appeared that the public became less fearful that the Obama administration was going to come after semi-autos, so the panic buying came to an end, Kassnar said....

"The consumer just stopped buying," he said....the "sales blitz lasted about eight months."



Not to worry. In the boom and bust economy that represents gun manufacturing in the U.S.––despite the long-term trends of declining gun ownership ––the NRA and gun industry are always on the lookout for another manufactured crisis to exploit and reel in the "panic" buyer.



But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
LoBrau
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:49:52 PM
Maybe that'll drive down the price of uppers to something I can afford.

Also, declining gun-ownership? Pfft.
Dave's not here.
AR4U
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:50:01 PM
I like how that moron attributes the surge of gun purchases to the N RA

I wish I had money to take advantage of the market.
"During the second 100 days, we will design, build and open a library dedicated to my first 100 days." -Barack Obama, May 9 2009
Venkman
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:50:08 PM
LOL!

Without this article I might have bought another AR
LOW2000
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:50:12 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 3:51:08 PM by LOW2000]
ShadowAngel
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:51:15 PM
I like how they reference the vpc's stupid study to say firearm ownship is declining, even when every other media source clearly shows it on the rise. But that's Huffpo for you.
It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees.
marksman121
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:51:29 PM
Anyone have a gif. for "clueless"?
M4-AK
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:51:47 PM
Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Maybe that'll drive down the price of uppers to something I can afford.

Also, declining gun-ownership? Pfft.


He's slightly wrong. The public bought all they could afford, not all they wanted. Money is tight, that's all. It's the same reason ammo prices are dropping. Soon you'll see people selling from their ammo hoards to get cash.
LoganSackett
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:51:55 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 3:52:01 PM by LoganSackett]
It's the Huffington Post. An IQ is optional to work there.
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Daytona955i
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:52:44 PM
Yeah one company that apparently had a poor business model closes.That really shows a total market collapse. Maybe if they hadn't overproduced by so much and were not behind on the demand push...

Economics fail.
The government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:53:48 PM
The strongest survive.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the media doesn't understand capitalism.
dark_light
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:54:05 PM
what do you expect from huffington? pro-gun news? the truth?
14point5
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:54:48 PM
I'm still buying, I know others who are as well...
I really like AR-15s and 1911s.
Aimless
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:55:08 PM
A chance to win a Kifaru multi-cam E&E and other prizes
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1001158
Dog needs home: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=154&t=1002501
hellbound
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:55:27 PM
many of us called this a couple years ago and refrained from purchasing during the panic...

prices have leveled out, good deals are to be found all over the EE and locally in person, and inventories have been replenished...

it only makes sense that a company that jumped in head first to make a quick buck would soon fail...
I give CD a lot of credit for coming into a saturated market and using input from the user community to build a decent rifle...
unfortunately Charles Daly didn't have any kind of reputation in the AR market, i think that played heavily into their failure...
look at companies like BCM or Spike's or DD or Larue Tactical, they all started in niche markets related to the AR15 and over the past two-three years have all introduced their own AR variants and are doing VERY well...
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cosmo05
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:55:36 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 3:56:13 PM by cosmo05]
Yea, that article's bullshit. I ordered an upper from Bushmaster the other day and they have a 2 week backlog waiting for more barrels to come in.
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Seven-Shooter
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:55:44 PM
I'll bet it was people "double backordering", and canceling one of the orders when the other got filled.
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Afterwork_Ninja
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:55:53 PM
You had me until Huffington Post.

I have no desire to pollute my mind with anything written by those illogical douche bags.
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coldair
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:56:19 PM
lots of people will no longer discuss whether or not they have a firearms with outsiders so statics would reflect less firearm ownership will be misleading. it sounds funny that lack of sales is causing the down turn.
plus lack of affordable ammo may have the largest effect on gun sales
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RRA_223
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:56:22 PM
why wasn't this warehouse full of guns "nobody wanted" not liquidated via fire-sale prices on the internet?

I would have bought... a few.
j_dock2
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:56:34 PM
I feel for Kassnar - I do.

However... the entire industry knew that EBR sales were in a blow-off parabolic direction, and that NEVER lasts forever. (See also "crisis, housing.")

Kassnar's timing couldn't have been worse. It was a business decision and it didn't go as planned. Basically CD got whipsawed, caught a falling knife, etc.

It's how business works.
LightningII
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:56:59 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 3:57:16 PM by LightningII]
I'll bet josh sugarmann has a tiny pee-pee.
happycynic
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:57:23 PM
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Yeah one company that apparently had a poor business model closes.That really shows a total market collapse. Maybe if they hadn't overproduced by so much and were not behind on the demand push...

Economics fail.


This. Daley had the misfortune/bad sense to try and first enter the AR market right when the boom ended and the market was saturated with inventory from the established manufacturers. This combined with economic collapse left them high and dry. Simple market economics.
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Tommytwoguns
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:58:08 PM
I wonder when the bank sale is and how little "$8million" dollars worth of AR's will sell for? If the auction company was smart they would spam Arfcom.
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Fincho
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:58:28 PM
Originally Posted By 14point5:
I'm still buying, I know others who are as well...



me too
fosters
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:59:00 PM
Hey Josh you cock sucker...Its a semi automatic rifle...Not fucking Assault Weapon you twat!
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genesis
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:59:33 PM
Originally Posted By Aimless:


"Fuck em. Prairie dogs had just as much time to evolve and develop high-powered rifles as we did...We win. "
HardShell
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Posted: 3/4/2010 3:59:59 PM

Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
You had me until Huffington Post.

I have no desire to pollute my mind with anything written by those illogical douche bags.

Yeah, it popped up in an unrelated news search on Google or I'd never have seen it myself –– can't stand that/them.

But, given the title, and then the author, I knew I had to post it here if wasn't already being roasted lovingly by the Arfcom Army.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
SouthEndXGF
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:00:18 PM

Originally Posted By Fincho:
Originally Posted By 14point5:
I'm still buying, I know others who are as well...



me too

me 3
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EasTexan
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:01:16 PM
Guilty....
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Zaphod
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:01:35 PM

Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Maybe that'll drive down the price of uppers to something I can afford.


Would be nice. I have two lowers just begging to be mated....
"We live in an era where nothing is a surprise and everything is an outrage." - Rush Limbaugh
odfox
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:02:19 PM
Well, I can admit I bought a whole lot more from Oct 2008 to Oct 2009 than I will in the Oct 2009 to Oct 2010 year. Then again, it wasn't just the politics that drove me to buy at a high rate... it was the lack of availability even at high prices. If something came available, I bought it without being very patient.

The NRA had nothing to do with driving me to buy more... it was Obama, Eric Holder and Hilary Clinton. If anything, the NRA was far less worried than I was.

This article seems misleading, beyong the basic observation that demand rises and falls, and some are unprepared for either side of it the curve.

I think demand was PRETTY high still for the 3rd quarter of 2009, so I don't know how anybody ended up with $8 million in rifles that nobody wanted in July. Unless of course they were priced too high or a configuration that nobody was interested in.
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true. " -Niels Bohr
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:02:56 PM




i'd wager that most of the people who bought "assault weapons" in a panic after the election aren't NRA members anyhow. this isn't a decline or a collapse in the "assault weapon" market. it's a rapidly growing market that is saturated at the moment.



Seven-Shooter
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:03:09 PM
Originally Posted By RRA_223:
why wasn't this warehouse full of guns "nobody wanted" not liquidated via fire-sale prices on the internet?

I would have bought... a few.


Time to start keeping an eye on CDNN.
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whomper
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:05:57 PM
Josh Sugarmann can fuck off and die.

He is head of a gun control group, and holds one of the few FFL's in DC.

Frost7
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:06:17 PM
lol, declining ownership.

Wishful thinking, much?
mcantu
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:07:01 PM
Josh Sugarman is the person that came up with how to market 'assault rifle' hysteria in the late 80's. He's famous for saying that if it looks like a machine gun, most people will think its a machine gun and that this could be used in efforts to have them banned...
TheGerman
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:08:45 PM
lmao @ declining ownership

I have never seen so many people with guns in my life.
Bubbles
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:09:47 PM
Originally Posted By whomper:
Josh Sugarmann can fuck off and die.

He is head of a gun control group, and holds one of the few FFL's in DC.


How much for a transfer?

Oh wait, never mind, he won't do them...

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JAShooters
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:10:29 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 4:10:40 PM by JAShooters]
AR's are pretty much my entire business - if your prices are fair, you'll move inventory. Though there has been a noticable slowdown, our last gunshow was all but a sell-out.

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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:10:38 PM
"Declining gun ownership" indeed.

In his fucking dreams.
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3one5
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:15:55 PM
I guess I'm not seeing the decline in price. Can someone point me in the direction of declining prices on AR lowers?
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:16:31 PM
Libs live in a constant state of denial, their social ideas demand it.
schizrade
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:17:52 PM

Originally Posted By sixnine:
Libs live in a constant state of denial, their social ideas demand it.

http://www.amazon.com/Intellectuals-Society-Thomas-Sowell/dp/046501948X


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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:18:21 PM
tag for later
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Sixpack595
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:19:02 PM
I'm one of those who laughed at the panic buyers and waited for prices to drop. I stocked up in the early 90s with ammo prices super low. After that I could sit around and wait for great deals to replenish. For new shooters, the panic was a disaster. I had several people I taught how to shoot who decided not to buy a gun because ammo costs were so high. Fewer gun owners means fewer people who will never accept limitations to the 2nd. This boom and bust wave hurt more than just CD.
cyborg543
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:19:35 PM
The AR market is the most crowded with brands.

Due to the enormo-popularity of the guns, virtually everyone is making or marketing them now.

One of the weaker players went bust when a sales frenzy petered out? Big deal.

By the way, we were duped by the evil NRA into buying ARs.

The reason I became a life member of the NRA is so I could truthfully tell liberals that fact and watch them sputter with anger and hatred. Well worth the cost.
EasTexan
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:19:59 PM
Declining gun ownership!?!?!?!?!?!


Everybodys got a fucking AR-15 now!

The market is flooded and I will lurk in the shadows until they hit bottom.

I killed eight gophers last year and a purebred Tennessee walking horse that was looking at me funny.
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:20:09 PM
Charles Daily wasn't always known for their quality to begin with. People that know about guns are somewhat wherry about the name. I think that ultimately led to their demise.

They seen the AR15 market explode and decided they wanting in. Well, old feelings remained and no one wanted to chance their money on a CD AR15 when they could go out and buy a proven manufacture for less money. In the end CD poured a bunch of money into the market hoping to capitalize and failed.

IMO it was because of the companies past reputation for quality. No one is going to pay $1200 on a gamble.
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:21:49 PM
Declining gun ownership? Holy shit, even the liberal newspapers have been running stories on the surge of new gun owners.
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:22:23 PM
Charles Daly made AR's?
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