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Posted: 2/19/2010 5:17:28 PM EDT
Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance
By Stephanie Chen, CNN
February 18, 2010 10:22 a.m. EST
"They put the handcuffs on me, and I couldn't believe it," Alexa Gonzalez, 12, said of her arrest.


(CNN) –– There was no profanity, no hate. Just the words, "I love my friends Abby and Faith. Lex was here 2/1/10 :)" scrawled on the classroom desk with a green marker.

Alexa Gonzalez, an outgoing 12-year-old who likes to dance and draw, expected a lecture or maybe detention for her doodles earlier this month. Instead, the principal of the Junior High School in Forest Hills, New York, called police, and the seventh-grader was taken across the street to the police precinct.

Alexa's hands were cuffed behind her back, and tears gushed as she was escorted from school in front of teachers and –– the worst audience of all for a preadolescent girl –– her classmates.

"They put the handcuffs on me, and I couldn't believe it," Alexa recalled. "I didn't want them to see me being handcuffed, thinking I'm a bad person."

Alexa is no longer facing suspension, according a spokeswoman for the New York City Department of Education. Still, the case of the doodling preteen is raising concerns about the use of zero tolerance policies in schools.

I didn't want them to see me being handcuffed, thinking I'm a bad person.
––Alexa Gonzalez

Critics say schools and police have gone too far, overreacting and using well-intended rules for incidents involving nonviolent offenses such as drawing on desks, writing on other school property or talking back to teachers.

"We are arresting them at younger and younger ages [in cases] that used to be covered with a trip to the principal's office, not sending children to jail," said Emma Jordan-Simpson, executive director of the Children's Defense Fund, a national children's advocacy group.

There aren't any national studies documenting how often minors become involved with police for nonviolent crimes in schools. Tracking the incidents depends on how individual schools keep records. Much of the information remains private, since it involves juveniles.

But one thing is sure: Alexa's case isn't the first in the New York area. One of the first cases to gain national notoriety was that of Chelsea Fraser. In 2007, the 13-year-old wrote "Okay" on her desk, and police handcuffed and arrested her. She was one of several students arrested in the class that day; the others were accused of plastering the walls with stickers.

At schools across the country, police are being asked to step in. In November, a food fight at a middle school in Chicago, Illinois, resulted in the arrests of 25 children, some as young as 11, according to the Chicago Police Department.

The Strategy Center, a California-based civil rights group that tracks zero tolerance policies, found that at least 12,000 tickets were issued to tardy or truant students by Los Angeles Police Department and school security officers in 2008. The tickets tarnished students' records and brought them into the juvenile court system, with fines of up to $250 for repeat offenders.

The Strategy Center opposes the system. "The theory is that if we fine them, then they won't be late again," said Manuel Criollo, lead organizer of the "No to Pre-Prison" campaign at The Strategy Center. "But they just end up not going to school at all."

His group is trying to stop the LAPD and the school district from issuing the tickets. The Los Angeles School District says the policy is designed to reduce absenteeism.

And another California school –– Highland High School in Palmdale –– found that issuing tardiness tickets drastically cut the number of pupils being late for class and helped tone down disruptive behavior. The fifth ticket issued landed a student in juvenile traffic court.

In 1998, New York City took its zero tolerance policies to the next level, placing school security officers under the New York City Police Department. Today, there are nearly 5,000 employees in the NYPD School Safety Division. Most are not police officers, but that number exceeds the total police force in Washington, D.C.

In contrast, there are only about 3,000 counselors in New York City's public school system. Critics of zero tolerance policies say more attention should be paid to social work, counseling and therapy.

"Instead of a graduated discipline approach, we see ... expulsions at the drop of a hat," said Donna Lieberman, an attorney with the New York branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.
We see ... expulsions at the drop of a hat.
––Donna Lieberman, ACLU attorney

"If they have been suspended once, their likelihood of being pushed out of the school increases," she said. "They may end up in jail at some point in their life."

One of Lieberman's clients was in sixth grade when police arrested her in 2007 for doodling with her friend in class. The child, called M.M. in court filings to protect her identity, tried to get tissues to remove the marks, a complaint states.

Lieberman says police subjected M.M. to unlawful search and seizure. A class-action lawsuit, filed in January on behalf of five juveniles, is pending. It maintains that inadequately trained and poorly supervised police personnel are aggressive toward students when no criminal activity is taking place.

Several studies have confirmed that the time an expelled child spends away from school increases the chance that child will drop out and wind up in the criminal justice system, according to a January 2010 study from the Advancement Project, a legal action group.

Alexa Gonzalez missed three days of school because of her arrest. She spent those days throwing up, and it was a challenge to catch up on her homework when she returned to school, she said. Her mother says she had never been in trouble before the doodling incident.

New York attorney Joe Rosenthal, who is representing Alexa, plans to file a lawsuit accusing police and school officials of violating Alexa's constitutional rights. New York City Department of Education officials declined to comment specifically on any possible legal matters.

"Our mission is to make sure that public schools are a safe and supportive environment for all students," said Margie Feinberg, an education department spokeswoman.

Several media outlets have reported that school officials admitted the arrest was a "mistake," but when asked by CNN, Feinberg declined to comment specifically on the incident. She referred CNN to the NYPD.

The NYPD did not return CNN's repeated phone calls and e-mails. It is unknown whether charges will be pressed against Alexa.

Kenneth Trump, a security expert who founded the National School Safety and Security Services consulting firm, said focusing on security is essential to the safety of other students. He said zero tolerance policies can work if "common sense is applied."

Michael Soguero recalls being arrested himself in 2005 when, as principal at Bronx Guild School, he tried to stop an officer from handcuffing one of his students. A charge of assault against him was later dropped. He says police working in schools need specific training on how to work with children.

In Clayton County, Georgia, juvenile court judge Steven Teske is working to reshape zero tolerance policies in schools. He wants the courts to be a last resort. In 2003, he created a program in Clayton County's schools that distinguishes felonies from misdemeanors.

The result? The number of students detained by the school fell by 83 percent, his report found. The number of weapons detected on campus declined by 73 percent.

Last week, after hearing about 12-year-old Alexa's arrest in New York, he wasn't shocked.

"There is zero intelligence when you start applying zero tolerance across the board," he said. "Stupid and ridiculous things start happening."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/new.york.doodle.arrest/index.html?hpt=C1


Now where did I save that tard face .gif that gets bigger and bigger?  Oh well.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:23:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Allow me

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:25:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Vandalism...got what she deserved.




Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:27:26 PM EDT
[#3]
GONNA GET PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:28:22 PM EDT
[#4]
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin.  They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.  



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:31:28 PM EDT
[#5]



Quoted:


A lot of this comes from the powerless admin.  They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.  



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Its not like she was carving swastikas with a machete on the desks. She wrote a harmless note with a pen. At worst, she should have gotten sent to the VP's office for a talking to, and maybe send a note home. No way the police should have had their time wasted.

 
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#6]
How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.

Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:39:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Wow.  Just, wow.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:40:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Vandalism...got what she deserved.









Hope you have kids and one of them gets arrested for something this stupid.









Roy
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:40:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Wasn't there a thread here (or did I hear it on the radio?), about a teacher for special needs kids calling the cops to have an eight year old boy arrested for hitting her?

You're a teacher for severely autistic children, but yet you feel threaten by the outburst of an eight year old....enough to charge him with assault?


What the fuck is wrong with people?


Edit: Hey Roy....you need to fix your sarcasm meter, and note the WTF smiley at the end of my post.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:40:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Why did the cops arrest her??.do they not have any choice?????
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:40:50 PM EDT
[#11]
And thus.  Another symptom of what is wrong with this country.  



Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:41:19 PM EDT
[#12]




Quoted:





Quoted:

A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Its not like she was carving swastikas with a machete on the desks. She wrote a harmless note with a pen. At worst, she should have gotten sent to the VP's office for a talking to, and maybe send a note home. No way the police should have had their time wasted.




So, who pays for the desk?
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:42:48 PM EDT
[#13]




Quoted:

Wasn't there a thread here (or did I hear it on the radio?), about a teacher for special needs kids calling the cops to have an eight year old boy arrested for hitting her?



You're a teacher for severely autistic children, but yet you feel threaten by the outburst of an eight year old....enough to charge him with assault?





What the fuck is wrong with people?





Edit: Hey Roy....you need to fix your sarcasm meter, and note the WTF smiley at the end of my post.


For many of these special programs, it is policy to report any and all crimes.  Employees have to file police reports for CYA because many of these kids are explosively violent.  Not tracking it means a lot of progression to nutso violent killer with no papertrail.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin.  They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.  

You can't fine them.
You can't keep them after school.
You can't hit them or yell at them.
You can't get mad or mean.
The parents back them up 100%

The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:44:21 PM EDT
[#15]



Quoted:


How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.



Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.


Nah, that would be too easy and won't get anybody on the news.



 
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:46:03 PM EDT
[#16]




Quoted:



Quoted:

A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.




Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?


They can't. They are sued by parents for being too hard on the little angels. Thus, a hands-off approach to discipline. It's a crime, so treat it like one. No screaming parents running into the police dept., are there?

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:46:25 PM EDT
[#17]
another reason the public school system is great

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:46:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:

For many of these special programs, it is policy to report any and all crimes.  Employees have to file police reports for CYA because many of these kids are explosively violent.  


Crimes? That seems a little strong. An eight year old?....Surely there is another alternative than a criminal record.

I'll have to find the article/post or whatever I heard it on. The teacher wanted $$$ from the parents too....it was not so much about the kid, but the crooked "teacher".


/hijack.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:47:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:47:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.

You can't fine them.
You can't keep them after school.
You can't hit them or yell at them.
You can't get mad or mean.
The parents back them up 100%

The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.

Its not like she was carving swastikas with a machete on the desks. She wrote a harmless note with a pen. At worst, she should have gotten sent to the VP's office for a talking to, and maybe send a note home. No way the police should have had their time wasted.


So, who pays for the desk?


Oh, I don't know.  About 99 cents to buy the rubbing alcohol to wipe it off?
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:47:55 PM EDT
[#21]




Quoted:



Quoted:



For many of these special programs, it is policy to report any and all crimes. Employees have to file police reports for CYA because many of these kids are explosively violent.




Crimes? That seems a little strong. An eight year old?....Surely there is another alternative than a criminal record.



I'll have to find the article/post or whatever I heard it on. The teacher wanted $$$ from the parents too....it was not so much about the kid, but the crooked "teacher".





/hijack.





Schools don't make this up.  This comes from the experience of being sued multiple times for every little thing that parents don't want happening to their kids (i.e. discipline).  So, schools take a hands-off approach and pass the buck to the PD.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:49:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Sounds like a lot of good reasons not to send my kids to public schools!!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:49:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.

Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.


Yep, before long they will be felons and lose their rights for life, even before they have the rights they are losing. It's all about .gov control of the unwashed masses.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:50:07 PM EDT
[#24]
This young lady should have done the right thing.............And teased a fellow student until that student killed themself.

Im glad america is opening its eyes.......Doodling on desks is destroying this country!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:50:14 PM EDT
[#25]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:





Quoted:

A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Its not like she was carving swastikas with a machete on the desks. She wrote a harmless note with a pen. At worst, she should have gotten sent to the VP's office for a talking to, and maybe send a note home. No way the police should have had their time wasted.




So, who pays for the desk?




Oh, I don't know. About 99 cents to buy the rubbing alcohol to wipe it off?


So, as long as it is "cheap" vandalism, it's okay?



So, 5c candies are okay to steal?





The point is... it is a crime, and if the schools are too afraid to discipline because of past issues with litigation, it gets turned over the the police.  There are a lot less screaming parents in the chief's office.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:50:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.

You can't fine them.
You can't keep them after school.
You can't hit them or yell at them.
You can't get mad or mean.
The parents back them up 100%

The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?

They can't. They are sued by parents for being too hard on the little angels. Thus, a hands-off approach to discipline. It's a crime, so treat it like one. No screaming parents running into the police dept., are there?



They could.

And it is not a crime.

Sorry.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#27]




Quoted:



Quoted:

How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.



Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.




Yep, before long they will be felons and lose their rights for life, even before they have the rights they are losing. It's all about .gov control of the unwashed masses.


I has nothing to do with govt. controlling your life and everything to do with the general public (YOU) being so litigious.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:51:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:52:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.

You can't fine them.
You can't keep them after school.
You can't hit them or yell at them.
You can't get mad or mean.
The parents back them up 100%

The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.

Its not like she was carving swastikas with a machete on the desks. She wrote a harmless note with a pen. At worst, she should have gotten sent to the VP's office for a talking to, and maybe send a note home. No way the police should have had their time wasted.


So, who pays for the desk?


Oh, I don't know. About 99 cents to buy the rubbing alcohol to wipe it off?

So, as long as it is "cheap" vandalism, it's okay?

So, 5c candies are okay to steal?


The point is... it is a crime, and if the schools are too afraid to discipline because of past issues with litigation, it gets turned over the the police.  There are a lot less screaming parents in the chief's office.


No it's not a crime.  It's called kids being kids.  

And litigation issues are a problem everywhere, which is another symptom.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:52:51 PM EDT
[#30]
They should arrest the fucking teacher for wasting the cops time!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:53:01 PM EDT
[#31]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:

A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.




Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?


They can't. They are sued by parents for being too hard on the little angels. Thus, a hands-off approach to discipline. It's a crime, so treat it like one. No screaming parents running into the police dept., are there?







They could.



And it is not a crime.



Sorry.



Sure, they could. Then they could possibly be sued by parents or be fired when the same parents complain to their buddy on the school board.



And destruction of public property/vandalism is always a crime. Get real.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:55:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Nothing was "Destroyed" it was "defaced" and repairable with a little effort!!!.....Holy fuck get some perspective!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:58:11 PM EDT
[#33]
nm
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:58:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 5:59:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.

You can't fine them.
You can't keep them after school.
You can't hit them or yell at them.
You can't get mad or mean.
The parents back them up 100%

The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.


Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?

They can't. They are sued by parents for being too hard on the little angels. Thus, a hands-off approach to discipline. It's a crime, so treat it like one. No screaming parents running into the police dept., are there?



They could.

And it is not a crime.

Sorry.

Sure, they could. Then they could possibly be sued by parents or be fired when the same parents complain to their buddy on the school board.

And destruction of public property/vandalism is always a crime. Get real.


Oh, I'm very real.  And it is not destruction of public property, nor is it vandalism.  It's kids being kids.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:00:48 PM EDT
[#36]


indeed. thank you for that
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:00:48 PM EDT
[#37]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:

A lot of this comes from the powerless admin. They, and teachers, just have no weight over kids because of sue-happy parents.



You can't fine them.

You can't keep them after school.

You can't hit them or yell at them.

You can't get mad or mean.

The parents back them up 100%



The only option for punishment is to turn them over to cops.




Perhaps, the adults, should actually stand up and stop this kind of bullshit?


They can't. They are sued by parents for being too hard on the little angels. Thus, a hands-off approach to discipline. It's a crime, so treat it like one. No screaming parents running into the police dept., are there?







They could.



And it is not a crime.



Sorry.



Sure, they could. Then they could possibly be sued by parents or be fired when the same parents complain to their buddy on the school board.



And destruction of public property/vandalism is always a crime. Get real.





Oh, I'm very real. And it is not destruction of public property, nor is it vandalism. It's kids being kids.





So, you're okay if I doodle with a marker on your house or the door of your car?  Or does it just have to be done by a kid?  Can I have my son tag your property?

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:00:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:

Oh, I'm very real.  And it is not destruction of public property, nor is it vandalism.  It's kids being kids.



But he's a tercher...he know about these things.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#39]




Quoted:

Nothing was "Destroyed" it was "defaced" and repairable with a little effort!!!.....Holy fuck get some perspective!!!




So, how would you handle the discipline?



Mind you, you can't do anything to the kid.  At all.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:05:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Nothing was "Destroyed" it was "defaced" and repairable with a little effort!!!.....Holy fuck get some perspective!!!


So, how would you handle the discipline?

Mind you, you can't do anything to the kid.  At all.


Call Mom and Dad and go from there.................Seems your school district works a whole lot different then the one here!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:06:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.

Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.


Yep, before long they will be felons and lose their rights for life, even before they have the rights they are losing. It's all about .gov control of the unwashed masses.

I has nothing to do with govt. controlling your life and everything to do with the general public (YOU) being so litigious.


First, by emphasizing (YOU) I guess you mean ME, which I am not, I do not believe in frivolous lawsuits. Second, maybe not .gov in this instance, but with zero tolerance becoming the norm (not just in schools) everybody will be felons by 16 before to long.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:08:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Hit kids with phone books!
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:09:53 PM EDT
[#43]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:

Nothing was "Destroyed" it was "defaced" and repairable with a little effort!!!.....Holy fuck get some perspective!!!




So, how would you handle the discipline?



Mind you, you can't do anything to the kid. At all.




Call Mom and Dad and go from there.................Seems your school district works a whole lot differna tthen the one here!!!




My district is very different from the one mentioned in the article.  Still, I understand where they are coming from and exactly how they got in such a situation.  I see problems like this and just how unprotected a school employee is if a parent really decided to make a federal case out of discipline.  It can cost a teacher EVERYTHING for just standing their ground.



So, back to your reply.  What if mom and dad say, "So?!?"  What if they allege physical mistreatment or verbal abuse?  However minor it may seem to you, much of the vandalism doesn't ever come off with alcohol and it still costs me (or the custodian) time/money to clean up after all these innocent angels (read:  vandals).



So, what would you do to discipline this kid when mom and day back up the kid?
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:12:30 PM EDT
[#44]
you and the best candidates from the other outraged parents run for all the school board seats.  

People will vote for common sense (at least a majority will).

Then you pull in the school administration and you eliminate PC.

Crap like this gets handled by the kid spending a couple of hours after school cleaning desks.

Zero tolerance for fighting - gone.  Self defense walks away w/o an issue or record.  Kid who started it gets a week's detention.  

Be VERY clear with the parents what is going to happen.  Implement it.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:12:39 PM EDT
[#45]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:

How about making her take some goof off and cleaning it up, then asking her not to do it again because it's vandalism. She sounded like a good student, I'm sure that would have made an impression.



Instead lets make everyone a criminal... it's only a matter of time.




Yep, before long they will be felons and lose their rights for life, even before they have the rights they are losing. It's all about .gov control of the unwashed masses.


I has nothing to do with govt. controlling your life and everything to do with the general public (YOU) being so litigious.





First, by emphasizing (YOU) I guess you mean ME, which I am not, I do not believe in frivolous lawsuits. Second, maybe not .gov in this instance, but with zero tolerance becoming the norm (not just in schools) everybody will be felons by 16 before to long.
First, I agree.  It is ridiculuous and it is harder and harder to not be a criminal of some sort.  However, it is not the school that has taken it to this level.  The school is just reflecting the community and is responding to their history of, most likely, very unfavorable dealings with helicopter parents.



And I mean "YOU" as in the general public, you know, the very same people that make up the school districts that do this.  It may not personally be you, but as we all know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  It may have only been a couple of parents or one lawsuit, but this school is obviously afraid to even deal with bad kids.



Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:13:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Nothing was "Destroyed" it was "defaced" and repairable with a little effort!!!.....Holy fuck get some perspective!!!


So, how would you handle the discipline?

Mind you, you can't do anything to the kid.  At all.


I would have had the kid stay after school, clean not only that desk, but every desk in the room, top and bottom. I would also have called the parents.
If the parents had a problem with it, I would have called a professional cleaning service, gotten an estimate, and went to court and sued the parents for the cost of cleaning.
Yeah I know the whole court thing would be expensive, but there is principle involved here.


But I would NOT have called the police unless the kid went apeshit crazy violent or something.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:13:50 PM EDT
[#47]
I bet she won't vandalize any more desks. She's 12 years old, she shouldn't be drawing on desks.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:13:57 PM EDT
[#48]


Send the bill to mom and dad to have the desk refinished!

Why do you feel the need to make this a huge deal when it is not?
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:14:08 PM EDT
[#49]




Quoted:

you and the best candidates from the other outraged parents run for all the school board seats.



People will vote for common sense (at least a majority will).



Then you pull in the school administration and you eliminate PC.



Crap like this gets handled by the kid spending a couple of hours after school cleaning desks.



Zero tolerance for fighting - gone. Self defense walks away w/o an issue or record. Kid who started it gets a week's detention.



Be VERY clear with the parents what is going to happen. Implement it.





Sorry, you fail by bringing logic into a discussion.  




While we would all like this to be the case, it only takes a few rotten apples to change policy.

Link Posted: 2/19/2010 6:14:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Critics say schools and police have gone too far, overreacting and using well-intended rules for incidents involving nonviolent offenses such as drawing on desks, writing on other school property or talking back to teachers.


Utter bullshit.  It was never well-intentioned.  It was always about protecting bureaucratic ass at the expense of children.  

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