Gov't may own the machines the M16's lowers are produced on too. I'll have to measure a FA FCG the next time I make it to a gun show....it just doesn't seem like the receiver could stand much more thinning in that area.

What is the width of the bosses on the side of the M16 hammer(or the inside dimension of the fcg well)? This has me really curious now.

Your BEST post EVER!!!!

Here's two blueprints, one an AR15 and one an M16.  There is a difference there.  However, I've never seen a lower like in the AR15 blueprint, except for Colts.  Ever lower I've ever owned is like the M16.

AR15:




M16:

tag

I seriously doubt anyone took a serial numbered item out of the plant and sold it. Wayyy too easy to get caught. Why do I get the suspicion that an employee took a mere barrel from the company, or slipped out with some M16 fire control parts, and is about to get nailed for "constructive possession" b.s. or "unregistered ___" b.s. instead of just getting charged with petty theft? You don't need a "license" to possess or sell parts that MIGHT go for something in the NFA. If the employee put the stolen parts together into something NFA-ish when he got home, then the raid on Sabre, and the search of all employees makes no sense other than heavy handed "government" thugism. Theft should be treated like theft, not a federal crime (which from the federal government's perspective means making war with the federal government). If Sabre ratted out an employee to the freaking feds, instead of just dealing with the theft issue, then that is low.

perhaps Whole guns have been stolen, then written off as destroyed?

we don't know the ins and outs, but it wouldn't be the first time a gun has turned up in a crime that is down on a list somewhere as being destroyed.

Does Sabre ever sell blemished AR lowers? Could employees have legally bought blemished AR lowers, perhaps using their 'insider' position to give them an advantage in getting first pick of any blemished lowers offered for sale? If those employees then sold those lowers for a profit, in private transactions, wouldn't that be something the BATF could consider to be operating as a firearms dealer without a license?

tag for more info before I pass judgment.


but fuck the BATFE anyway.

i don't know what kind of security/loss prevention stuff sabre defence has, but i remember reading about an old time s&w worker who said coworkers would throw parts over a fence then build their own pistols at home...just saying it could happen.  but then s&w also doesn't make NFA revolvers and that was a different era

If I was looking at you for a constructive possession, what would serving a warrant on a manuf. show me?

Not a thing. You took items that are uncontrolled and not important. For that much work to go into a case, there is more than just a single moron with M16 parts.

Constructive possession cases are extremely rare. I know GD thinks they occur more than real MG possession, but the only cases I was involved with dealt with two people making one MG (which was complete). Now the intent side came up one time for a guy manuf. MGs for export to Mexico. He had plenty of intent cases to go with the MGs he had already made.

You with a FCG in your garage isn't going to get the intent side covered.

Remember that BATFE management pulls these same games with their own employees.





 

If the people stealing them were involved in inventory control then the guns could've been listed as being anywhere. And then it depends on if they have somebody besides those guys do the checks to see if their inventory was accurate.



You could say Gun X is in Locker Y and if nobody besides you ever checks it, then nobody else really knows if Gun X is actually there.

One of the keys to effective inventory control/loss & fraud prevention is separation of duties.

I have had several friends tell me about Unintended Consequences.  Is this book available.  I would really like to read it.

Sorry for the confusion. SDI makes AR15s. AR15 lowers have a thicker wall in the area of the auto sear. U pictured an M16 lower and yes the wall thickness is different as pictured.

The ATF is just a section of the Dept of Justice which is directly under Administration control.

Search warrant will allow the search of entire premises,persons thereon and automobiles within the property and any coming and going.

Co worker of mine is friends with the head of Sabre. He confirmed that an employee was stealing non serialed lowers and trying to sell them overseas.

Yep, definitely the govt. trying to shut them down

Of course, the conclusion jumpers won't be back in here to admit their errors.

If so, fucking burn his ass.

And not the company.  Time will tell on this, I think.

Yes, only the thieving criminal as an individual.  I thought that was pretty obvious.

If accurate, it just goes to show the damage one dickhead can do to the industry.

Not to mention the perception left by many uninformed, but quick to judge, posters on Day 1.

Thus the caveat "if accurate".  Do you have a point?  So, just what do you know?  Anything at all?

Yep.

So, when will SDI be back up and running? Soon, I hope.

ETA: Never mind...



 

Fuck the ATF.

If true hopefully the ATF pulls their head out of their ass quickly.  Clearly its the criminal that need punishment not the company.

Have you read the thread?

i spoke to my rep at sabre yesterday, they were shut down for about 36hrs, it was a sealed warrant...when i visited the plant back in january, we were told that the employees were allowed to purchase the scratch and dent items...when speaking to the marketing director and my rep on speaker phone they told me the suspicions were on employees acquiring the scratch/dent and reselling them, the investigation wasnt wholly on sabre itself as it was on some of the sabre employees...im waiting on about a dozen of their new piston guns and half a dozen of their m5 piston uppers

This is then a true criminal case where someone was stealing from their employer and could have been aiding terrorism/criminals.

Federal search warrant...  If they typed it out correctly, then they had it worded so they could search the facility, the persons on said property, and any vehicle on the grounds.  Very easily covered if they had probable cause, and to raid a US Mil supplier, they almost assuredly had EXCELLENT Probable Cause to get a judge to sign off on it.

Yes, we all search things illegally just because we want to...

See my last post...

And Sabre is back up and running.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2010/02/15/daily35.htm

Jeff

Just because the ATF does things by the book once in a while doesn't make them respectable or law-abiding for that matter. Not that doing something LEGAL even makes is right. It could still be quite IMMORAL.

Anyway, even a blind squirrel....and all that.

Could you post the text of the article? I don't have a subscription....

here it is:

Sabre Defence Industries is back up and running following a two-day federal search at the Nashville gun manufacturer’s production facility, with no arrests made in what is an ongoing investigation.

Company president Charlie Shearon said production resumed at 6 a.m. today, and that authorities left with some documents but no other materials following what he described as a “cordial” interaction.

“I guess if you’re going to get a search warrant served on you, you couldn’t ask for a better group of guys,” Shearon said of law enforcement involved.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives confirmed executing a search warrant Wednesday and Thursday at the facility on the 400 block of Allied Drive. The operation also involved the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department, which had a squad car among the unmarked law enforcement vehicles stationed at the company’s facility.

Bureau Special Agent Eric Kehn said no arrests have been made, and Shearon said he was not aware of any employees being identified as targets of the investigation.

Agents said no additional information was available, reiterating that the search warrant is sealed under court order in the U.S. District for Middle Tennessee. The U.S. Attorney’s Office has said it cannot confirm or deny involvement in investigations that are not a matter of public record.

In a statement Thursday, Sabre said it was fully cooperating with the investigation after receiving information that one or more of its employees working with inventory control “may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses.” The statement said the investigation involved “criminal misuse” of non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre that some of its employees purchased. Shearon said firearms violations would be grounds for dismissal from the federally licensed manufacturer.

Sabre, which manufactures various firearms and weapon systems for the military, law enforcement and commercial markets, has more than 120 employees at its Nashville plant. The company is ranked seventh on the Nashville Business Journal’s list of the largest federal contractors in Middle Tennessee, with 22 contracts in fiscal year 2008 totaling $12.3 million.

The production facility has two weekday and two weekend shifts, Shearon said, and brought in extra employees to make up the two lost days. He expected production to be back on schedule by Monday.



You can reach Brian Reisinger at [email protected] or 615-846-4251.

Saber may have really fucked up and we find out about it later. Those of you saying this is another Cav Arms, We dont even know what cavarms did because they arent telling us. They admit they made "mistakes" so they were in the wrong.

There is too much ATF hate on here....

If you got your ducks in a row, you got nothing to worry about.

If I read the post correctly, it sounds like he's saying his friend confirmed that, not Mr. Savage.

CavArms made some tiny little mistakes. They weren't 'wrong' - they were merely in violation of some pathetic ATF regulations.


And on the contrary, there is nowhere near enough hatred for the ATF here. When the agency is gone, its records destoryed, and its memory forgotten, then you can begin to argue that there is 'too much hatred' for them.

Source for what they violated?

Or are you just going off the small vague references that have been made?

If you've followed the whole thing, it's pretty obvious as to the nature (if not specifics) of their violations. You see, virtually *all* ATF regulations are pathetically unConstitutional.

The real point, though, is that there's nothing unConstitutional about it if someone wants to build truck-mounted Quad .50's in their basement and sell them out of the back of the ice-cream man's truck on Saturdays (when dad is off work and can hear the music as the truck approaches his neighborhood). CavArms did nothing wrong. They did, though, do some things that violated some portion of ATF regulations. There's a huge difference.

I see you avoided the questions..... if you don't have any facts, just say so. Don't try and spill some anti-ATF rhetoric when you were called on your lack of knowledge.

Thanks for playing.

LOL....called on my lack of knowledge? Because I'm not privy to the inside scoop on CavArms?

*yawn*



edit: I didn't avoid your question. I did, however, demonstrate that it was based on flawed premises.

Run along now.

Here is what you typed, since you forgot- "CavArms made some tiny little mistakes. They weren't 'wrong' - they were merely in violation of some pathetic ATF regulations"

What is a "tiny" mistake?

You are the one talking as if you have some knowledge. All I did was ask what you knew, which appears to be nothing.

Had a guy last week that made a tiny mistake, as he worded it. He stuck his penis in his 8 yr old niece.

See, what people consider "tiny mistakes" may vary

Yes, and that's a good point, but here's what you missed:

'Wrong' isn't defiend by arbitrary ATF rules, nor by the rules the ATF enforces, except to the degree that such rules are in line with the Constitution.

None of the 'rules' the ATF is enforcing against CavArms are Constitutional. If we find out CavArms was exporting to our enemies illegally, then I'll change my stance - until then, they have done nothing 'wrong'.

So, because CavArms has operated within its rights as defined by our Constitution, I can say - with a great degree of certainty - that they have done nothing 'wrong'.