Not sure if this belongs here or in General Discussion, so if the mods deem it necessary, please feel free to move it over there.

I raise this question: "do we need a new separate CLONE sub-forum?"  Lately it seems there has been a lot of arguing on the various clone threads, and am wondering if this may help clean things up a bit.  There could be a sticky thread at the top explaining the whole concept of clone-building so people don't get confused about the concept.  What does the Hive think?

Another here for a Clone forum. Like the Retro section, the clone threads are geared towards specific replication of specific rifles using specific parts. Being able to sticky our own posts and threads for parts suppliers, pimp parts and services, and self-moderate would be a boon. I don't want it stiflingly restrictive, but it would be nice to weed out those items which are too far off, or give passes for known WIP builds that are off spec.

We've been through this evolution on the Mk12 thread. There is a balance to keeping the clone threads civil, which could better be served with dedicated clone guys for the various types desired.

Nope, they had to preserve bandwidth for grooming, math and zombies.  No LW for you!

They're all clones. The AR15 is our civilian clone of the M16. All the military variants have comparable civilian clones, either from manufacturers or one-offs. The whole forum is full of them. So how can you have a 'clone' forum?

Sounds like a good idea.

Or how about a separate section just for picture threads ?

Make things easy to find

Aye.

I have to ask, and maybe because I don't keep up in this forum enough to understand, but are you essentially suggesting a "COLT" forum with an "All other brands"sub forum?

I only ask because there is already a dedicated "Colt" forum in the industry section.

uh no



 

Even if they don't account for most of the traffic they sure as hell have a lot of activity. Like I said, over 1,700 pages, 46k+ replies and over 6.8 million reads.

Good idea.

By the way why do people feel they need to give MODS permission to move their threads.  Is it just another way of saying 'I broke the rules but please don't ban me'?

I sort of agree although having well defined rules on post #1 of any clone thread would go a long way in determining go/no-go for people wanting to post up in them.

I 2nd the motion.

All in favor, aye!

Aye!

Clone sub forum with a new set of mods for that area would be ideal.

I like that idea

aye!

Aye, thanks for posting!

No.

Go look at one of the now former clone threads.

If you are referring to, for example the 835 page thread, then I see  the point.

But wouldn't just making the "build it yourself" forum be better suited for these kinds of threads since that is what people are doing?

There ALREADY is a "build it yourself" forum.....What needs to be done is some people who post off topic pictures/etc.  in the improper thread...need a kick in the butt....there is no need for  clone sub forum....there is at most only 10 or so clones anyway....

There may only be a relatively small number of clones, but the amount of discussion that takes place within those few threads could most certainly warrant its own forum.

First of all....what is a "Clone"?   The site is AR-15.com not Colt or M4 dot come.  There's already a Retro and A2 build forums.

I don't think we need another sub forum just for clones and I find it ironic when non team members want to change the site.

If "grooming and haberdashery" has a sub forum,  clones might as well.

If we can't have a Lightweight Forum, I would have to vote NO!

I'll see your "grooming and haberdashery" and raise you a
"Zombie Central" sub-forum".









 

The Lightweight thread has, what, a little over 20 pages? The few clone threads have over 1,700 pages and I'm sure they account for most of the traffic in this forum.

My vote would have to be "no" for a clone sub-forum.  

I think we'd lose a lot of valuable insight, information, and participation if we segregated the clone threads that way - they're still modern weapons in use - and arguably the largest sample size of "what works."  

~Augee

That's a very good point and it's my only real reservation about clones having their own sub-forum.

I see your point.  My biggest issue is how often these clone threads run into folks who don't "get" the whole clone concept.  Case in point:



Some people seem to think that if their rifle sorta looks like something that's issued, it belongs in a clone thread.

Wrong.

Clone threads are for the purpose of trying your best to get your weapon as close as you can to "spec", or "as issued", or "as seen in the wild".  So when folks post pics of a SPR style rifle in the Mk12 thread with a DD FF handguard, or USO scope, or Atlas bipod, or a Vortex flash hider, stating that it is "their interpretation", or because it is "better", it goes counter to the whole point of building a clone, and disrespects the OP and all those who are striving towards getting as close to the original as they can.  It may well be "better", or an "upgrade", but that's not the point.  The point is to get as close to the original as you can.  If that's not your thing--fine.  No problem.  No one is saying that you have to build your rifle like that.  There are plenty of other places to post pics of your "better" build.  People somehow get the idea that it's cool to belong to the club, and that cloners are doing it for the cool factor.  Maybe some are, but many aren't.  Many of us are simply doing it for our own satisfaction to see how close we can get--for ourselves.  

You will also find some posting pics of rifles with non-spec parts, that seem to be given a pass.  This is usually due to the poster mentioning something to the effect that the build is still "in progress", and not in its final configuration yet.  These folks are still striving to get there, and that is OK in my mind.  Someone who has an AAC can on a Mk 12 or a CQBR, who is waiting for their Surefire or Ops Inc can to clear NFA jail, is acceptable in my mind.  Troy sights in place of KAC sights, while you are looking for some KAC sights, is OK.  

I just thought it would be nice to have a place where like-minded people can discuss these types of builds without some yahoo coming in and trying to insist that his "DD Mk12"  was a clone.  It's not.

Now if the ground rules were clearly laid out in the first post of each of these clone threads, and an inappropriate post/submission could be reported to a mod who would delete the post, much like what they do in the EE, then that would help to keep things clean and civil.

What about a sticky then at the top of the page with links to clone threads?

I was thinking about that as well and it seems like it would be the best/easiest way to point new people in our direction.

Edit: I'll also say that I'm in total agreement with the rest of your post as well.

This. The behavior of some "adults" on these forums is unbelievable.

This is all pretty much spot on and to which I will add the "problem" in the old Mk18/CQBR and M4A1 BLK II threads was that the the non-cloners, the guys who don't really care about how accurate their build(s) is (are), were pushing back when, in a clone thread, others were simply pointing out that their rifles weren't clones.

Case in point and among the most ridiculous of arguments:  "well, your 'clone' isn't select fire so it's not really a clone now, is it?"

I think the traffic in the 3 primary clones threads is/would be sufficient to warrant their own subs, but there would have to be rules.

Another ridiculous argument:  "rules, who says you get to make the rules".  The "rules" (purpose of the thread) should be established in/by the OP....just like pretty much every other sub-forum...hell, even GD has rules.

The characteristics of the base clones are deceptively simple; it's all of the "noise" which get posted along with the good info that makes it confusing to those who don't know what right looks like, hence the requirement to point out non-clone characteristics when they appear in a clone thread.

Just my $0.02.

i am in favor of a clone sub-forum.

reason being, you can't search inside of just ONE thread. for example, the block II thread is 850 pages. someone comes in and asks a question that is not covered on page 1, i.e. "on the block IIs, does the colt bcg have the o-ring in it?", and someone will say "DUDE READ THE FUCKING THREAD THIS WAS COVERED ON PAGE 683!!".

at some point, it becomes unrealistic to expect everyone to read an almost 1000 page thread to find one answer. if we had a subforum, we could have a pic thread with JUST pictures and no discussions. then have all the topics for discussions, and it would cut down on repeat questions since you can search the subforum for a question that has already been asked.

This would be really nice. Have a dedicated picture thread with just pictures and discussion pertaining to those pictures only. Separate threads for optics, lights, lasers, suppressors etc. would help immensely. As it sits now we basically have the same discussions every 50 or so pages because the information is so spread out and hard for newer people to find.