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Posted: 1/26/2017 9:35:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Cave Divers Forum has a gear for sale listing and BP/W comes up for sale from time to time especially as some are transitioning over to side mount.
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Posted: 1/26/2017 9:42:48 PM EDT
[#2]
I hate to see new rec divers step up to the plate fresh of cert dives and dump massive coin on gear. FACT: Less than 1% of all divers who receive a PADI/NAUI cert make more than 30 dives in their lifetime. I'd be looking to borrow or rent gear for quiet awhile. Just sayin'...
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Posted: 1/26/2017 9:45:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I've got 13 dives already just getting my cert, and since the wife desperately want to move to FL in the next couple years I'll be getting a lot of diving in.
It's something I was raised being immersed in and I absolutely love being under water. So I'll be in that 1% very easily. |
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Posted: 1/26/2017 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got 13 dives already just getting my cert, and since the wife desperately want to move to FL in the next couple years I'll be getting a lot of diving in. It's something I was raised being immersed in and I absolutely love being under water. So I'll be in that 1% very easily. Doc, I had pretty much all my own gear, including dry suit, by the time I got my OW cert. I've got 9 dives, myself. I hated the way the jacket BC squeezed me, so I got a BP/W between the two OW pool sessions. For used, there is a Scuba Swap and Shop Group on FB, if you do FB. Otherwise, join ScubaBoard. There is a lot of used equipment for sale. If you feel the need to buy new, buy this BP/W package. I actually have it. DRIS is actually my local dive shop in the Chicago area, but they have a huge web presence and excellent customer service. I upgraded the harness, when I bought it, and added weight pockets. I actually don't use it now (I'm selling the BP and harness to a friend, keeping the 28 lb wing). I won a Halcyon BP/W at an underwater pumpkin carving event in October and use that, as I much prefer the streamlined harness. When buying used, note that anything with the "blue H" (Halcyon) is going to be more expensive than pretty much anything else, although they do hold their value well. |
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Posted: 1/26/2017 10:33:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks Marie! I didn't know about the FB group so I'll check them out.
And I've been following your thread, I haven't gotten into drysuits yet, but since the quarries are open year round here I'll eventually get into one. 
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Posted: 1/26/2017 10:42:16 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm off to Mermet tomorrow! Water temp will be in the low 40s.
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Posted: 1/26/2017 11:35:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got 13 dives already just getting my cert, and since the wife desperately want to move to FL in the next couple years I'll be getting a lot of diving in. It's something I was raised being immersed in and I absolutely love being under water. So I'll be in that 1% very easily. Doc - I'm glad you got certified and I'm not trying to talk you out of buying anything. I am trying to save you a bunch of coin. Your last investment should be BC. 13 dives? Define what a dive is. My definition of a dive isn't anything you've done. May be you'll get there some day, but the stats are against you. That being said, your not going to be happy with my next comment. For anyone who is proficient at trimming yourself out and buoyancy control, a wing and back plate doesn't provide a single advantage over a jacket style BC other than a couple of very specific technical situations. |
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Posted: 1/26/2017 11:48:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Based on what I did, here's what a dive is.
93 feet on one of my night dives. 2 night dives down to 45 with NVGs on cuz I could. Average bottom time with an average depth of 43 feet (excluding the deep dive) of 44 minutes. Over 12 dives. My dad is a master diver, my twin brother is a PADI instructor. I'm well aware of the investment and time. I literally grew up in a shark tank... I love being underwater and spend every second that I can doing it. I can borrow tanks and regs any day, but I cannot stand wearing a vest BCD. I feel very contricted and can't trim out without shoulder weights. I borrowed a BP/W from another diver on one dive and found I'm much more trimmed and comfortable with it. Stress went down, air consumption went down, and I was more relaxed at depth. I know what I'm getting into. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 2:18:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Check out Craigslist, there's usually a ton of used dive gear on there.
There are some items I wouldn't buy off there without knowing what you're doing like regs, but a bc / wing is a fairly simple device. My suggestions before buying would be to inflate the wing fully and let it stand 10 minutes or so to make sure there's not a leak in the bladder. And if it has integrated weights make sure all the parts are there. Check all the buckles and straps, make sure nothing's broken or missing. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 10:08:25 AM EDT
[#10]
You mention you are going to diving singles, IMO, stay away from bp/w.
Not a fan of jacket bc's unless for a specific purpose, but look into back inflate bc's. Plenty out there, Scubapro Knighthawk, Zeagle, Oceanic etc. I have both an Oceanic Excursion for singles and a bp/w for doubles. The Excursion is very comfortable. Whether it be a hike to local beach dive or getting up a boat ladder. Yes, you can add comfy shoulder pads, pockets, weight pouches to the traditional bp/w, but that's coming full circle back the Back Inflate bc's that are already out there...and can be had cheap. As far as doubles, there is no other reasonable way of getting it done other than bp/w. I shore dive doubles as well, sometimes 250 yard walk when it's 1100 kelvin in South Florida. Shit hurts. Plus crotch strap. Crotch strap + board shorts =  . I wear a light wetsuit for protection from strap and [can still get cold in 85d water after 3+hours].
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Posted: 1/27/2017 11:34:29 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm diving singles for the moment. Once I get back from Afghanistan I'll be doing my mixed gas and tech diving class. So being able to rock a single, then pull off the STA to hang doubles appeals to me more than getting a dedicated single tank back inflate.
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Posted: 1/27/2017 12:55:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm diving singles for the moment. Once I get back from Afghanistan I'll be doing my mixed gas and tech diving class. So being able to rock a single, then pull off the STA and change from singles to doubles wing to hang doubles appeals to me more than getting a dedicated single tank back inflate. A little fixin' added. Your plans in this post changes things a bit. The price of a used back inflate is less than a wing, if you are patient. My excursion was $330 new delivered to my door. I bought my kid a near new Scubapro Seahawk for $100. It took me a while but, I cobbled together my doubles bp/45lb wing for $240 [basic harness] all new parts. That FB group mentioned earlier has some good deals... I'm on there often. Buying and flogging Be safe. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Given your father and brothers purported qualifications, I'm surprised you’re coming here for advice. With only 13 dives and interim travel to Afghanistan, how are you going to take a "mixed gas" and tech diving class when you return? Given the fact you'll need an advanced open water and nitrox cert along with 10 dives to at least 60 feet using EANx and another 10 to 100 feet it's going to be awhile before you'll be taking any "mixed gas" or tech courses unless a licensed instructor is going to pencil your way around the requirements.
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Posted: 1/27/2017 4:47:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given your father and brothers purported qualifications, I'm surprised you’re coming here for advice. With only 13 dives and interim travel to Afghanistan, how are you going to take a "mixed gas" and tech diving class when you return? Given the fact you'll need an advanced open water and nitrox cert along with 10 dives to at least 60 feet using EANx and another 10 to 100 feet it's going to be awhile before you'll be taking any "mixed gas" or tech courses unless a licensed instructor is going to pencil your way around the requirements. You really like nit picking everything I say don't you? 
My brother and dad both prefer vest BCDs, so when I asked them, the recommended vests. And "mixed gas" class is a 10 month class my college puts on that starts you on Nitrox and takes you to trimix. I already have my AOW. Happy yet? Or are you going to continue to shit on my thread and tell me what I do an don't need? |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 4:49:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little fixin' added. Your plans in this post changes things a bit. The price of a used back inflate is less than a wing, if you are patient. My excursion was $330 new delivered to my door. I bought my kid a near new Scubapro Seahawk for $100. It took me a while but, I cobbled together my doubles bp/45lb wing for $240 [basic harness] all new parts. That FB group mentioned earlier has some good deals... I'm on there often. Buying and flogging Be safe. A very important fix! But I am aware I'll have to change wings, lol. I've been digging around that page, scuba boards, and cave divers forum and have a good idea of what I'm going to have to spend. Even going used. |
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Posted: 1/29/2017 12:26:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Doc, my wife hated the jacket type BCD as well after training. I got her a back inflate travel type for what we will be doing (pure rec) and she is much happier. It sounds like though you are heading for tech diving anway, so IMO there is little need to spend good money on a rec diving rig like a back inflate.
Good luck with your diving and training! Be safe in the sandbox and get home in one piece. |
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Posted: 1/29/2017 7:22:11 PM EDT
[#17]
I absolutely LOVE my ScubaPro Hydros Pro BC. It's got good lift, dries very fast, super light, and great for traveling. I'll give more details when I'm not on my phone.
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Posted: 1/29/2017 10:20:49 PM EDT
[#18]
I second joining the FB group Marie mentioned. I have had great luck buying and selling gear on there.
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Posted: 1/29/2017 10:45:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I absolutely LOVE my ScubaPro Hydros Pro BC. It's got good lift, dries very fast, super light, and great for traveling. I'll give more details when I'm not on my phone. A weight integrated back inflation BC is the right way to dive. ScubaPro makes good stuff... |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 2:16:12 PM EDT
[#20]
So a former PJ buddy of mine is in town and we got to talking about diving and how I was looking for a BC. He let me try on his Zeagle Ranger.
I like it. Other than the weight pockets, I didn't feel confined. If I can relocate the pockets back some it would be much more comfortable. So now I'm looking at back inflates. Thanks for the tips guys. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 7:51:11 PM EDT
[#21]
I think you will not find it more confining that a weight belt [BP/W]. I also doubt you will be able to move the Zeagle weight system.
Keep in mind that the Zeagle can be fitted with doubles easily by design see here |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 8:46:48 PM EDT
[#22]
I have a Zeagle Ranger. You can buy weight pockets and put them on the tank bands- there are 2 bands.
I haven't tried a BP/w, but I really like my Ranger. For me and my gear having the weights in the weight pockets allows me to trim out pretty well. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 2:22:49 PM EDT
[#23]
I tend to be heads up a bit so being able to hang weights further up, I.e. on the tank bands would be a good thing for me.
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Posted: 1/31/2017 4:00:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Why is the back inflate BCD preferable to the BP/W set-up? Also, I can see why you would want your BCD instead of renting them. Using your own gear cuts down on the stress.
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Posted: 1/31/2017 6:03:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you will not find it more confining that a weight belt [BP/W]. I also doubt you will be able to move the Zeagle weight system. Keep in mind that the Zeagle can be fitted with doubles easily by design see here |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 7:31:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Switch to the backplate and wing if that's what you're comfortable with. If you have the opportunity to go even half as much as you think you will, it's easier to own your gear because you'll be more familiar with it and it will be adjusted to you. I hated using shitty rental BCs during my open water class and purchased my own back inflate model about six months later. Ended up selling that within a year and getting a BP/W setup and it's MUCH better.
I can steal my girlfriend's single wing if I want to just go putz around somewhere, but most of the time I still dive doubles with my light and leg pouch, no matter where I am. It's familiar, comfortable, and sized for me. No reason not to, IMO. Quoted:
weight belts aren't necessary with plates. I've never ran a belt with mine. I still needed one diving a single AL80... and that was in a bathing suit and t-shirt, no wetsuit. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 8:32:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Weight is something I need as well. With a steel 80, and a 3 mil suit I still had to hang 10 lbs. I'm a bouyant little bastard.
Though it did make my 15 minute water tread real simple since I just floated the whole time.
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Posted: 1/31/2017 8:50:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Weights aren't necessary with plates? Maybe not for you warm water divers.
Last weekend with thick fleece thermals in a dry suit, in 48F water, I needed 22 lbs of lead on top of BP and a 5 lb STA insert. I'm a floaty gal! AL80
In the pool, I need 10 lbs of lead on top of BP and STA insert, in just bathing suit and rash guard. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:19:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
weight belts aren't necessary with plates. I've never ran a belt with mine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think you will not find it more confining that a weight belt [BP/W]. I also doubt you will be able to move the Zeagle weight system. Keep in mind that the Zeagle can be fitted with doubles easily by design see here Necessary if you plan an submerging....depends on tank(s), exposure etc. SS backplate + double AL80's + 3mm wetsuit = 6lbs on weight belt for me. 12lbs if 5mm. Of course you can wear that on pouches, but same dif. I am switching to double LP72's and will not need any additional weight with the 3mm, but will need 4-6 with 5mm. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:30:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. I still needed one diving a single AL80... and that was in a bathing suit and t-shirt, no wetsuit. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:30:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weights aren't necessary with plates? Maybe not for you warm water divers. Last weekend with thick fleece thermals in a dry suit, in 48F water, I needed 22 lbs of lead on top of BP and a 5 lb STA insert. I'm a floaty gal! AL80
In the pool, I need 10 lbs of lead on top of BP and STA insert, in just bathing suit and rash guard. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:32:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Necessary if you plan an submerging....depends on tank(s), exposure etc. SS backplate + double AL80's + 3mm wetsuit = 6lbs on weight belt for me. 12lbs if 5mm. Of course you can wear that on pouches, but same dif. I am switching to double LP72's and will not need any additional weight with the 3mm, but will need 4-6 with 5mm. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:39:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really. Weight belts are never needed. Weights are, belts, not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Necessary if you plan an submerging....depends on tank(s), exposure etc. SS backplate + double AL80's + 3mm wetsuit = 6lbs on weight belt for me. 12lbs if 5mm. Of course you can wear that on pouches, but same dif. I am switching to double LP72's and will not need any additional weight with the 3mm, but will need 4-6 with 5mm. K This goes back to my earlier post of making a BP/W into a back inflate bc [for singles], which already has these features. For me, pointless. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 11:26:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weights aren't necessary with plates? Maybe not for you warm water divers. Last weekend with thick fleece thermals in a dry suit, in 48F water, I needed 22 lbs of lead on top of BP and a 5 lb STA insert. I'm a floaty gal! AL80
In the pool, I need 10 lbs of lead on top of BP and STA insert, in just bathing suit and rash guard. That's just wrong. I have friend like u that try to get me to do that stuff. No thanks. Gizo Solomon Islands 88 degrees at 44m. That's my kind of diving. To keep on topic mine is a Zeagle Ranger. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 12:11:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Good lord, 88 degrees is like bath water.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 12:01:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's just wrong. I have friend like u that try to get me to do that stuff. No thanks. Gizo Solomon Islands 88 degrees at 44m. That's my kind of diving. To keep on topic mine is a Zeagle Ranger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Weights aren't necessary with plates? Maybe not for you warm water divers. Last weekend with thick fleece thermals in a dry suit, in 48F water, I needed 22 lbs of lead on top of BP and a 5 lb STA insert. I'm a floaty gal! AL80
In the pool, I need 10 lbs of lead on top of BP and STA insert, in just bathing suit and rash guard. That's just wrong. I have friend like u that try to get me to do that stuff. No thanks. Gizo Solomon Islands 88 degrees at 44m. That's my kind of diving. To keep on topic mine is a Zeagle Ranger. Do you find your Ranger trapping air? I just got back from diving Grand Cayman and Cozumel, and I kept having trouble. It seems like my Ranger was trapping air somewhere. I would have trouble dumping air, then after several attempts it would finally burp air and I would sink. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 12:36:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Dive rite travel-pack
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:44:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dive rite travel-pack I'm a big fan of the trans-pac line. I prefer a wing with a little more lift than the travel but it does do its job well. I dive a voyager wing on OC here in FL. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 12:25:37 PM EDT
[#39]
They make a Voyager version IIRC.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:53:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They make a Voyager version IIRC. The traveler is a specific wing that they pair with a watered down transpac to keep the weight down for traveling. They also sell the wing individually. I wouldn't dive any heavy steel tanks with it but defiantly has its purpose. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:09:27 PM EDT
[#41]
I dive cavemfilled 95smwith a travel pack all the time.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:37:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dive cavemfilled 95smwith a travel pack all the time. We are getting way off topic but run whatever you are comfortable with. I would personally want more lift than the travel wing is capable of with steel tanks. Dive Rite themselves say don't dive with more than an AL80 with it but if it works for you then go with it. |
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