Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 9/9/2012 9:32:54 PM EDT
I'm about to go back to school and take some organic and physical chemistry classes.  

I've heard organic can be pretty hard with a lot to memorize.  Any tips or thoughts on ways to make it less painful?

I've also been told that given my background (BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering with a concentration in the thermal sciences), physical chemistry shouldn't be that bad.  Again, any tips?
Link Posted: 9/9/2012 9:44:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm about to go back to school and take some organic and physical chemistry classes.  

I've heard organic can be pretty hard with a lot to memorize.  Any tips or thoughts on ways to make it less painful?

I've also been told that given my background (BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering with a concentration in the thermal sciences), physical chemistry shouldn't be that bad.  Again, any tips?


Organic is a time sink, but not an overly difficult class, just study your notes, memorize the reaction types and do the book problems.  

Physical chemistry, which includes Quantum Mechanics (including the use of differential equations), Kinetics, Mechanics, and Chemical Thermodynamics (which will be a review for you),  is the tougher course IMHO.

Best advice I can give is what you probably already know:
1) Read ahead so the lecture is not new and can be used to clarify points of confusion/difficulty
2) Sit in the front row
3) Review your notes immediately after lecture
4) Keep up on the home work
Link Posted: 9/10/2012 11:47:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Organic I & II really are not super hard if you are willing to put in the time. While there is a lot to remember, if you stay up on your book problems within the text and your notes you start to recognize the common patterns the reactions will take for a given set of reagents.
-Nomenclature in organic requires some study, but most names make sense once you have the system down.
-The stereo-chemistry throws some people, visualizing in three dimensions, but for most it 'clicks' after seeing a model or two.
-Reagents, know them for each section. Know what the react with, and what they produce.
-Reaction types, know them

In short, for each section,
1. pre-read your text before you get to it in class
2. do the problems within the text, before  get to the chapter end assignments
3. Know your reagents and reaction types

That, and a little naming/nomenclature is all it takes to succeed in organic lecture.  The labs (if you have them too) often do not coincide with what you are doing in lecture, just pre-read the lab write up that is usually provided, make good use of your time while in lab, and you will be ahead of 90% of the other students.


pchem

Our school (UCM) had pchem I as largely thermodynamics related, and pchem II as quantum mechanics and spectroscopy.

With your back ground, pchem I shouldn't be hard, it is calculus based, but the derivation/integration isn't usually too hairy, as they are trying to get concepts through to the students, rather than bog them down in the math.

Pchem II (quantum): One of my favorite chem classes. I loved learning about the weird word of quantum mech.  The quantum transitions tie in with intermediate inorganic chem, but I wished I had taken pchemII before inorganic, would have made the latter easier.  Many do seem to have a hard time conceptually with pchem II, but not the majority of class. Kind of a "you either will, or will not get it right away" type subject.  Like pchem I, having at least had calc II should prepare you for the math. The math is usually dumbed down to simple scenario's to focus on the concepts, but this is especially necessary in pchem II, as the concepts are vast departure from Newtonian physics of the macro world. (and even a super computer cannot currently solve for complex systems, we just extrapolate).

For us, paying attention in class, doing the homework, and working in groups were our only resources as our text sucked HARD.

Being and engineer you probably had the calc, and at least colleg physic I & II, maybe university physics, and a background in thermo. The only thing you might lack is inorganic chem.


Link Posted: 9/15/2012 1:40:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the tips!
Link Posted: 9/15/2012 1:45:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Pretty much what mnvw02 said. Also, while you're in Organic class, you can keep motivated by reminding yourself you are learning valuable skills should you ever contract cancer and be forced to break bad.
 
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 10:07:17 PM EDT
[#5]
I really loved organic over all other chem classes I took.  Its where the rubber meets the road.  Where I took it you learned to make the stuff and then did it.  It was like cooking.  We had a class of only 18 so by the end we got to make some very fun stuff.  Also got to see the bomb squad called and remove some picric acid crystals.  A forgotten project from a few years previous.  Man that was a good class.  I can see how it would suck in a class of 200+
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 11:50:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Your previous degrees didn't require you to take chem and quantum?
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 1:08:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Your previous degrees didn't require you to take chem and quantum?


I only had to take General Chemistry.
Link Posted: 10/15/2012 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#8]
As a practicing organic chemist, I hated Pchem. There are many important ideas and concepts that come from pchem, but in my opinion they are often taught in an overly confusing way. However, since you seem to come from a math/physics background you will probably have no troubles with pchem. I would say brush up on some calculus for pchem though, that always helps. Organic is just knowing trends, and relating them to other more complicated scenarios. Organic comes with practice. I would say memorize at first, and then try to rationalize what is happening. This way if you happen to forget a product for a rxn, you can go through the mechanism quickly in your head to get to the products. You should do well in both. Goodluck!
Link Posted: 10/15/2012 11:01:23 PM EDT
[#9]
If you get your degree in chemical engineering,  they will be your easiest classes.
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 8:30:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
If you get your degree in chemical engineering,  they will be your easiest classes.


My favorite part of organic chemistry was how hard all the pre-med students thought it was. First semester p-chem was basically thermodynamics and kenitcs (pretty straight forward for a chemical engineer). 2nd semester p-chem was more of the quantum stuff. Not really harder, just different I guess.

Link Posted: 10/22/2012 10:06:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
As a practicing organic chemist, I hated Pchem. There are many important ideas and concepts that come from pchem, but in my opinion they are often taught in an overly confusing way. However, since you seem to come from a math/physics background you will probably have no troubles with pchem. I would say brush up on some calculus for pchem though, that always helps. Organic is just knowing trends, and relating them to other more complicated scenarios. Organic comes with practice. I would say memorize at first, and then try to rationalize what is happening. This way if you happen to forget a product for a rxn, you can go through the mechanism quickly in your head to get to the products. You should do well in both. Goodluck!


A friend of mine took Organic and has the same background as me.  He said it was like learning a new language.  Take the time to really learn the vocabulary and the reaction mechanisms.  If you do that instead of trying to memorize every single thing, then you can figure out the trends and the class really isn't that bad.
Link Posted: 2/10/2013 2:43:52 AM EDT
[#12]
P chem is a very difficult class. Much harder than Orgo
 
Link Posted: 2/10/2013 10:28:53 AM EDT
[#13]
I think it will depend on the school. For me as a Chem E it was required, but it was the course that was designed to separate the men from the boys in the pre-med track.  So it was stupid.  I remember getting test back that were single digit, and still passing (the average was something like 8% on that test).  I had stacks of note cards to memorize reactions.  It was a ridiculous amount of memorization.  The concepts were very straight forward and  easily understood, it was the memorization that was expected that made it tough.  The lab was a cake walk, as it was all application and no memorization.  P-Chem was reactions and application of P-Chem with very little memorization, and I found it much easier.  It was more like an engineering class to me.  It was similar to other classes in my chem-eng curriculum (I think I had a chem-e pchem class and reactions prior to taking the chem department p-chem class).

Tips - if memorizing reactions is required make note cards and go over them until you have them all memorized.
Link Posted: 3/8/2013 4:08:27 AM EDT
[#14]




Quoted:

P chem is a very difficult class. Much harder than Orgo




I tend to disagree...and agree.



I noticed...long long ago when I was earning my degree... that those who excelled in advanced math (Calc, Adv Calc, Diff, etc.) had no problems with PChem, but disliked Orgo because it was memorization and patterns, no math at all.  That was my situation, and the case for most chemical engineering students.



Those who disliked math, especially advanced math, did great in orgo but disliked pchem.  This was the case for many just wanting a BS Chem degree...which is a rahter useless degree unless you're planning for pre-med.



Link Posted: 3/9/2013 2:16:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:

Quoted:
P chem is a very difficult class. Much harder than Orgo


I tend to disagree...and agree.

I noticed...long long ago when I was earning my degree... that those who excelled in advanced math (Calc, Adv Calc, Diff, etc.) had no problems with PChem, but disliked Orgo because it was memorization and patterns, no math at all.  That was my situation, and the case for most chemical engineering students.

Those who disliked math, especially advanced math, did great in orgo but disliked pchem.  This was the case for many just wanting a BS Chem degree...which is a rahter useless degree unless you're planning for pre-med.



I am currently experiencing this exact thing.  Hate math, love organic.  
Link Posted: 5/13/2013 12:48:56 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm studying for my p-chem II final right now.  I just fucking hope I pass the class somehow.  Physical chemistry is really interesting stuff, but it's not for me.  The most demanding chemistry classes I've ever taken.  I guess I just really like synthetic and analytical chemistry.  P-chem really makes me wish I was dead sometimes, but I'll be done with it wednesday, I hope.

I absolutely love organic chemistry.
Link Posted: 5/16/2013 7:40:26 PM EDT
[#17]
I passed P-Chem II!  Definately the toughest chemistry class I took.  Manageable though.  Freshen up your calc II and III for it, you'll need it.
Link Posted: 5/23/2013 11:33:40 AM EDT
[#18]





Quoted:
Quoted:


P chem is a very difficult class. Much harder than Orgo






I tend to disagree...and agree.





I noticed...long long ago when I was earning my degree... that those who excelled in advanced math (Calc, Adv Calc, Diff, etc.) had no problems with PChem, but disliked Orgo because it was memorization and patterns, no math at all.  That was my situation, and the case for most chemical engineering students.





Those who disliked math, especially advanced math, did great in orgo but disliked pchem.  This was the case for many just wanting a BS Chem degree...which is a rahter useless degree unless you're planning for pre-med.








Its hard to read your tone just based on punctuation so i'll assume it was just meant for emphasis, but I never said I hated either one, I simply said that P chem was a more difficult class. Is that subjective? of course, but P chem does has a pretty stellar reputation as being one of the most difficult undergrad classes offered in most schools 'general' curriculum. I took a year of Calculus in H.S. and then another year in school, I loved math... Unfortunately I was not particularly great at it but I do love it. I really just found Physical Chem to be more difficult.





Did you attend a Tech School by chance? I think in the grand shceme of things whether it be a B.S. in Chemistry or Chemical Engineering, if you gonna compare those two to our little society of Science students then perhaps they may be worth slightly different amounts in the real world, I honestly wouldn't know, but compared to the 98% of degrees that millions of other students leave with (ill resist the urge to name some of the more comical ones) both Chem students are essentially graduating as rockstars with a bunch of open doors that are theirs to miss.





feel free to rip on anyone you please and fwiw I didnt major in Chem or any of the other basic sciences, I did however graduate with a double major which was kinda nice although I had to work both paths from beginning to end. I later was less than pleased to learn that the rub at many schools about those 'foolish' Biology majors or Chem Majors is that depending on your GER's and then your departments requirements, a lot of those kids if they played their cards right would finish up only a couple classes short of completing an entirely different but somewhat related major from one of the neighboring departments...
 
 
Link Posted: 5/23/2013 11:40:12 AM EDT
[#19]



Quoted:


I passed P-Chem II!  Definately the toughest chemistry class I took.  Manageable though.  Freshen up your calc II and III for it, you'll need it.


nice congrats pal. the week leading up to that test was time I will never ever be able to forget.



 
Link Posted: 5/25/2013 12:23:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I passed P-Chem II!  Definately the toughest chemistry class I took.  Manageable though.  Freshen up your calc II and III for it, you'll need it.

nice congrats pal. the week leading up to that test was time I will never ever be able to forget.
 


I'm very impressed with myself, not with the grade, but at least I made it.  Now I've just got Qualitative Organic next semester since I didn't want to take it back when I was taking calc III and physics II and Instrumental analysis.  Unfortunately my school only offers the more advanced, chem-major-only classes once every 2 years.  Qualt should be a breeze after pchem, and pchem really gets into the theory of the phenomena behind the function of the instruments.
Link Posted: 6/24/2013 1:07:10 AM EDT
[#21]
OChem is pretty fun. It's not very hard, just lots of memorizing. I think it's more difficult for people who have trouble visualizing a 3-D structure in their mind.






I never took PChem. I got a BS in Biology with Chem minor.







Of course, what do I know? I was just one of those pre-med students you guys all seem to hate.

 
Link Posted: 6/24/2013 1:14:04 AM EDT
[#22]
GT engineer with a thermo background? I bet you know my adviser.
Link Posted: 7/2/2013 1:24:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
As a practicing organic chemist, I hated Pchem. There are many important ideas and concepts that come from pchem, but in my opinion they are often taught in an overly confusing way. However, since you seem to come from a math/physics background you will probably have no troubles with pchem. I would say brush up on some calculus for pchem though, that always helps. Organic is just knowing trends, and relating them to other more complicated scenarios. Organic comes with practice. I would say memorize at first, and then try to rationalize what is happening. This way if you happen to forget a product for a rxn, you can go through the mechanism quickly in your head to get to the products. You should do well in both. Goodluck!


As a practicing inorganic chemist, I thought Pchem was fun.  Pchem is all theoretical, really. OChem is easy you dont really need to memorize too much, or atleast i didn't.
Link Posted: 10/8/2013 5:20:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm studying for my p-chem II final right now.  I just fucking hope I pass the class somehow.  Physical chemistry is really interesting stuff, but it's not for me.  The most demanding chemistry classes I've ever taken.  I guess I just really like synthetic and analytical chemistry.  P-chem really makes me wish I was dead sometimes, but I'll be done with it wednesday, I hope.

I absolutely love organic chemistry.
View Quote

I found Organic much more enjoyable than Pchem, as well as much easier.

I got a chemistry degree and then went on to medical school

A group of us taking Pchem threatened to have bumper stickers made that said, "Honk if you passed Pchem".

College was a long time ago.  Fun times...
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Getting a few Greek and Latin root words memorized up front might help at the beginning. I had all that long before organic and found it was an advantage at the start.
Start with the numbers, many of which you probably have by osmosis by now...
Link Posted: 3/10/2014 7:56:25 PM EDT
[#26]
What ya trying to cook? LOLZ
Link Posted: 3/12/2014 8:38:33 PM EDT
[#27]
I struggled to memorize a lot of stuff initially but once past that it wasn't too bad.  Like others said, dedication.

My Organic Chem teacher actually committed suicide mid-semester (yes seriously).  Was a cool guy but apparently he couldn't handle a divorce.
Link Posted: 3/13/2014 1:07:43 AM EDT
[#28]
If you can make it through Mechanical Engineering, you should be able to breeze through OChem. It's not hard. Just memorizing a lot of stuff. It helps if you're able to visualize 3D structures in your head.



I really liked OChem a lot. I never took PChem. I got a Biology major and Chem minor.
Link Posted: 3/13/2014 1:23:19 AM EDT
[#29]
...my background (BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering
View Quote


No.  I don't think they will be that hard for you.  

Skool is skool.  

Mostly.  

P Chem is just more story problems.  

Organic is memorization...   and learning...   like many other things.    But does require a lot of lab hours.  

Nothing really all the special about those things.  

I'm a Chem E that dabbled in ME.  

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 10:09:15 PM EDT
[#30]
The key to organic chemistry (former org chemist here) is to understand why reactions happen the way they do.  It's too dam tough to memorize all that stuff.

When you learn about functional groups, remember which atoms are nucleophilic (i.e. the "N" in an amino group, R-NH2) and which ones are electrophilic (the "C" in a ketone, R-CO-R).  Once you get that down, you understand why things react the way they do.  Nucleophiles attack electrophiles!

RF
Link Posted: 8/27/2014 7:56:47 PM EDT
[#31]
I agree with Josey. PChem and the upper level chem classes are some of the less difficult classes for a Chem E major.
However, almost all bio science majors require some level of organic, thus not too difficult.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 6:47:39 PM EDT
[#32]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





I found Organic much more enjoyable than Pchem, as well as much easier.



I got a chemistry degree and then went on to medical school



A group of us taking Pchem threatened to have bumper stickers made that said, "Honk if you passed Pchem".



College was a long time ago.  Fun times...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm studying for my p-chem II final right now.  I just fucking hope I pass the class somehow.  Physical chemistry is really interesting stuff, but it's not for me.  The most demanding chemistry classes I've ever taken.  I guess I just really like synthetic and analytical chemistry.  P-chem really makes me wish I was dead sometimes, but I'll be done with it wednesday, I hope.



I absolutely love organic chemistry.


I found Organic much more enjoyable than Pchem, as well as much easier.



I got a chemistry degree and then went on to medical school



A group of us taking Pchem threatened to have bumper stickers made that said, "Honk if you passed Pchem".



College was a long time ago.  Fun times...
These:

 









I actually saw one in the wild once.  
Link Posted: 8/31/2014 2:26:36 PM EDT
[#33]
1 word: wolfram alpha
Link Posted: 8/31/2014 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Bad memories.  First day of Organic Chemistry the prof gets up and says something to the effect of how it has become a trend not to have students memorize the basic organic equations.   He didn't subscribe to the theory, however, and the final exam would be writing out all 132 equations (IIRC).

I pretty much failed it.  So busy trying to memorize the damn equations we never had time to try to understand what the things meant.   I never did retain any understanding of organic chemistry.
Link Posted: 8/31/2014 2:47:58 PM EDT
[#35]
As a Chem E, I didn't think either was THAT BAD.  
P-Chem had the potential to be bad, but my experience wasn't.  
A lot depends on the particular prof and your competition.  
My Organics class had several chiropractors, an optometrist, and a dentist, who made us chemical engineers look better, and made it easier.
Link Posted: 10/8/2014 8:59:29 PM EDT
[#36]
understanding the concepts of organic is easy. its memorizing structures and reactions that is difficult due to time. study every day, no days off and it will be fine.
Link Posted: 10/8/2014 9:30:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Really didn't like O-chem or P-chem but did ok in them.  I had to take each of them for my Mech Eng degree and confirmed to myself why I chose ME over ChemE.  Some of the molecules, ions, and all that stuff is straight memorization and not too bad.  Ox and Redox reactions and all that jive also gets a little pesky.  Make sure you are good at memorizing and also good at algebra to balance chemical equations and the like.
Link Posted: 10/23/2014 12:45:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you get your degree in chemical engineering,  they will be your easiest classes.
View Quote




Agreed, I had the same experience
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 1:27:04 PM EDT
[#39]
My undergrad was Zoo/Chem.

Most serious course work requires a ton to memorize.

With you background, you know the deal.

Most college diplomas are an attendance sticker.

A year of Calc, O or P Chem, Physics are what make a degree something not everyone can do by just showing up.

It actually takes some degree of intelligence.

O-Chem, like many other basic courses, is just a ton of memorization.
Most anyone, easier easily because they are really bright, or with lots of work because they are not,
can memorize a ton of stuff.

The problem that makes O-Chem a cut is that there is some stuff you have to understand.  And to think in 3D.  

P-Chem is like Physics with Calc.  You have to have some brains.  It is not the watered down physics for poets without Calc.  If you have the math and some brains you should be fine.

I did note a lot of weird, mean professors for P-Chem.  I think they are Chemists that are sick of dicking around with electrons and wish they had been Physicists.
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 11:20:56 PM EDT
[#40]
i enjoyed o-chem , thank god p-chem was not i requirement, i heard it is death.
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 6:59:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Biology majors think O-chem is the worse.

Chem majors take P-chem!
Link Posted: 2/28/2015 5:49:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Organic Chem classes are largely memorization. Nomenclature, basic functional groups and their interactions, synthetic routes. I promise this will seem tedious. But by volume of information alone (this is an incredibly broad discipline) challenging just the same.

Physical Chem will probably be more in line with your engineering background. TD portion should be a snap for you, it will probably seem to be a general review of the TD you've already encountered in your engineering curriculum, and QM portion will be well served by your math/physics background.

Chemists in my classes hated P-Chem more than O-Chem. Engineers hated O-Chem more than P-Chem. I'm a chemist. Hated P-Chem. I wear the two "C-"'s I obtained in the P-Chem sequence like Purple Hearts.

Also, I give you this, my own mnemonic for remembering the first 12 carboxylic acids. This will help you successfully breeze through about 25 minutes of your 8 credit O-Chem sequence:

Fat
Ass
Paper
Boys
Violate
Copious
Ethnic
Chinese
Prostitutes
Candidly
Under
Lamposts


Have Fun and Good Luck!
Link Posted: 9/29/2015 1:04:52 PM EDT
[#43]
My organic chem classes were definitely not memorization, memorization would have flunked with our professor.  Most of it was understanding concepts and applying them.  I noticed students with artistic talents did better in ochem than average, my guess was they had a much easier time of visualizing the molecules and reactions.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 11:52:47 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:


I'm about to go back to school and take some organic and physical chemistry classes.  



I've heard organic can be pretty hard with a lot to memorize.  Any tips or thoughts on ways to make it less painful?



I've also been told that given my background (BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering with a concentration in the thermal sciences), physical chemistry shouldn't be that bad.  Again, any tips?
View Quote


You can tell chemistry majors from Biology majors (I got undergrad degrees in both), because biology majors complain about organic chemistry.

Yes there is a lot of memorization, that is because it has its own nomenclature.  Just learn it step by step. Do not try to cram for a test, KEEP UP WITH THE MATERIAL.

 For you P-chem should be okay.



 
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 7:26:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Organic is more than just memorization you need to understand trends in reactivity and reaction mechanisms. P-chem should be a breeze with your engineering background
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 9:04:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Organic is more than just memorization you need to understand trends in reactivity and reaction mechanisms. P-chem should be a breeze with your engineering background
View Quote


Or in this case, should have been a breeze, since the original post is almost 4 years old.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top