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Posted: 10/24/2015 9:26:59 PM EDT
[#1]
No more education than most candidates get while going thru them normally it's about the same level of injustice. We need to start building Master Masons, not manufacturing them.
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Posted: 10/25/2015 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm back on forth on these.
There was one candidate from my lodge who attended. I have been his coach for 8 months since he was initiated. English second language, he could not grasp the memory work to move on. This was the only option for him to progress and stay in the organization. We have had some groups with atrocious attrition rates, others that have many who go on to be very productive Masons and even served as GL officers. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 4:05:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm back on forth on these. There was one candidate from my lodge who attended. I have been his coach for 8 months since he was initiated. English second language, he could not grasp the memory work to move on. This was the only option for him to progress and stay in the organization. We have had some groups with atrocious attrition rates, others that have many who go on to be very productive Masons and even served as GL officers. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 9:28:49 AM EDT
[#4]
I've seen it done in the case of service men with 'travel needs' and. heard of one case for a terminal candidate.
past extenuating circumstances, it just seems like a means to an end, not a learning progression. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:01:33 AM EDT
[#5]
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:31:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky Well, the obvious answer is 9. So, if you were to say raise 4 new Master Masons in a year you'd have 1. Now, it doesn't take a PhD in mathematics to see which is a more practical method of growing and bettering the fraternity. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:36:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he can't memorize the work he shouldn't be a member. That's my opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm back on forth on these. There was one candidate from my lodge who attended. I have been his coach for 8 months since he was initiated. English second language, he could not grasp the memory work to move on. This was the only option for him to progress and stay in the organization. We have had some groups with atrocious attrition rates, others that have many who go on to be very productive Masons and even served as GL officers. Really? The ability to regurgitate words is more important that understanding their meanings and living by them? I mean no disrespect, but this attitude is in the top 10% of what's wrong with our Craft. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:46:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? The ability to regurgitate words is more important that understanding their meanings and living by them? I mean no disrespect, but this attitude is in the top 10% of what's wrong with our Craft. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm back on forth on these. There was one candidate from my lodge who attended. I have been his coach for 8 months since he was initiated. English second language, he could not grasp the memory work to move on. This was the only option for him to progress and stay in the organization. We have had some groups with atrocious attrition rates, others that have many who go on to be very productive Masons and even served as GL officers. Really? The ability to regurgitate words is more important that understanding their meanings and living by them? I mean no disrespect, but this attitude is in the top 10% of what's wrong with our Craft. May Brotherly Love Prevail. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:55:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky The stats vary quite a bit on this. Some classes it is terrible, others it seems to be a great success. We have some lodges in the state that have worse attrition rates from the traditional initiation process than the accelerated classes. How much of it boils down to good candidate investigations and candidate prep? |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:33:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Let's just throw traditions out the window. If your mentor doesn't teach you the meanings of the catechism while your learning to "regurgitate" it back I think that's what's wrong with freemasonry today. I prefer to learn to "receive, retain, and impart" knowledge. If all the three degrees gets thrown on you in one day how much do you retain? This world of instant satisfaction is going to be the end of us all. May Brotherly Love Prevail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm back on forth on these. There was one candidate from my lodge who attended. I have been his coach for 8 months since he was initiated. English second language, he could not grasp the memory work to move on. This was the only option for him to progress and stay in the organization. We have had some groups with atrocious attrition rates, others that have many who go on to be very productive Masons and even served as GL officers. Really? The ability to regurgitate words is more important that understanding their meanings and living by them? I mean no disrespect, but this attitude is in the top 10% of what's wrong with our Craft. May Brotherly Love Prevail. I'm a 7th generation Freemason, my sons are now the 8th. Tradition is very, very important to me. But, I also understand that to survive, grow and prosper we must adapt. The world is not what it was 100 years ago. If we don't change how we do things, there will be no traditions to pass on. You do not retain any less of what you actually initially receive by taking your degrees alone or in a group. In fact, I'd argue that those that watch the degree will initially retain more than the candidate. That's how you learn them long term. Watching and listening to the work is much more instructive than having it wash over you. Having said that: you do loose a part of the emotional experience of being Initiated, Passed and Raised. Of that there can be no argument. I would never advocate a group participating in the 2nd Section of the Master Mason Degree together. Knowing the words does not equate to understanding the words. I don't believe a Lodge Counselor, Mentor, Teacher, Brother, what have you, can or should tell you what are the meanings of the lessons of Freemasonry. Each man must find those in his own heart. That isn't done over a period of a day, week, month or even year. That's a lifetime of thought, experience and yes; change that the man must travel. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:18:03 PM EDT
[#11]
I would agree with you on several points. There is extremely high value in experiencing the degrees as the candidate. That being said, I didn't really start to understand them until I was watching from the sidelines.
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Posted: 10/26/2015 9:52:42 PM EDT
[#12]
In PA we call it a One Day Class. I have been participating in the classes for 4 years, either as an officer or mentor. I have mixed feelings about the classes, but to be honest, they work well in my jurisdiction. Right now, we have 3 graduates of the one day class in our line. All 3 are fine men and have been Masons for over 4 years. 2 of the men are father and son. Some of the guys you never see again, but you get that the traditional way. Some just want to join the Shriners, and that's fine too, as they pay their dues. we have to have the membership if we want to support our charities. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:55:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In PA we call it a One Day Class. I have been participating in the classes for 4 years, either as an officer or mentor. I have mixed feelings about the classes, but to be honest, they work well in my jurisdiction. Right now, we have 3 graduates of the one day class in our line. All 3 are fine men and have been Masons for over 4 years. 2 of the men are father and son. Some of the guys you never see again, but you get that the traditional way. Some just want to join the Shriners, and that's fine too, as they pay their dues. we have to have the membership if we want to support our charities. I see the same thing here. It was a fun day nonetheless. Started out as 1F for the MM, ended up doing 1R which is much more fun. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:13:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, the obvious answer is 9. So, if you were to say raise 4 new Master Masons in a year you'd have 1. Now, it doesn't take a PhD in mathematics to see which is a more practical method of growing and bettering the fraternity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky Well, the obvious answer is 9. So, if you were to say raise 4 new Master Masons in a year you'd have 1. Now, it doesn't take a PhD in mathematics to see which is a more practical method of growing and bettering the fraternity. GLNY is rolling out a process starting with on boarding potential candidates from initial contact through the investigation and voting process as well as putting in a very well crafted education program for each Degree as well as an assigned 1 to 1 mentor to help them with everyrthing from memory work, Masonic education and etiquette along with a councilor who can teach the mentors and oversee the process. I am one of the first certified Master Councilors in the state. They adopted the same program that other Jurist Dictions are using and the program has been proven to stop the membership bleed with new Masons |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:21:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The stats vary quite a bit on this. Some classes it is terrible, others it seems to be a great success. We have some lodges in the state that have worse attrition rates from the traditional initiation process than the accelerated classes. How much of it boils down to good candidate investigations and candidate prep? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky The stats vary quite a bit on this. Some classes it is terrible, others it seems to be a great success. We have some lodges in the state that have worse attrition rates from the traditional initiation process than the accelerated classes. How much of it boils down to good candidate investigations and candidate prep? No, because at the end of the day you are going to have a very confused man who just had all three Degrees dumped on him in a single sitting with no education or time to digest what just happened. Was there any follow up to explain to them on a person to person basis what it is that they just went through, any education at all?? Did they even sit with any of the members of the Lodge they are petitioning besides an investigating committee of one or two brothers before having his petition voted on and making what is supposed to be a lifetime commitment? Did those Bros on the committee ask the man why he was petitioning and what he was looking for by joining? How many appendent bodies where there handing out petitions and doing initiations as well? That will get them even more confused. 8 hours later, 3 different dues cards in their wallet and confused as the day is long. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:33:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GLNY is rolling out a process starting with on boarding potential candidates from initial contact through the investigation and voting process as well as putting in a very well crafted education program for each Degree as well as an assigned 1 to 1 mentor to help them with everyrthing from memory work, Masonic education and etiquette along with a councilor who can teach the mentors and oversee the process. I am one of the first certified Master Councilors in the state. They adopted the same program that other Jurist Dictions are using and the program has been proven to stop the membership bleed with new Masons Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky Well, the obvious answer is 9. So, if you were to say raise 4 new Master Masons in a year you'd have 1. Now, it doesn't take a PhD in mathematics to see which is a more practical method of growing and bettering the fraternity. GLNY is rolling out a process starting with on boarding potential candidates from initial contact through the investigation and voting process as well as putting in a very well crafted education program for each Degree as well as an assigned 1 to 1 mentor to help them with everyrthing from memory work, Masonic education and etiquette along with a councilor who can teach the mentors and oversee the process. I am one of the first certified Master Councilors in the state. They adopted the same program that other Jurist Dictions are using and the program has been proven to stop the membership bleed with new Masons Can you send me the details of that program? |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:37:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, because at the end of the day you are going to have a very confused man who just had all three Degrees dumped on him in a single sitting with no education or time to digest what just happened. Was there any follow up to explain to them on a person to person basis what it is that they just went through, any education at all?? Did they even sit with any of the members of the Lodge they are petitioning besides an investigating committee of one or two brothers before having his petition voted on and making what is supposed to be a lifetime commitment? Did those Bros on the committee ask the man why he was petitioning and what he was looking for by joining? How many appendent bodies where there handing out petitions and doing initiations as well? That will get them even more confused. 8 hours later, 3 different dues cards in their wallet and confused as the day is long. They do have a mentor assigned from the lodge that attends the entire day. It is that person's responsibility to work with them afterwards as well. All candidates are vetted through the standard process: petition, investigation, balloting. In the case of my candidate, he was initiated 8 months ago but due to a language barrier he has trouble with the memory work. It's not an easy task to teach old English to a guy who grew up speaking a native language in South America, and then taught himself Spanish and English. No appendant bodies are included in this process or discussed. This is strictly a Grand Lodge event. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:52:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, because at the end of the day you are going to have a very confused man who just had all three Degrees dumped on him in a single sitting with no education or time to digest what just happened. Was there any follow up to explain to them on a person to person basis what it is that they just went through, any education at all?? Did they even sit with any of the members of the Lodge they are petitioning besides an investigating committee of one or two brothers before having his petition voted on and making what is supposed to be a lifetime commitment? Did those Bros on the committee ask the man why he was petitioning and what he was looking for by joining? How many appendent bodies where there handing out petitions and doing initiations as well? That will get them even more confused. 8 hours later, 3 different dues cards in their wallet and confused as the day is long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And how many out of the 36 are going to attend meetings? How many are still going to be paying dues in 3 years? 25% if you are lucky The stats vary quite a bit on this. Some classes it is terrible, others it seems to be a great success. We have some lodges in the state that have worse attrition rates from the traditional initiation process than the accelerated classes. How much of it boils down to good candidate investigations and candidate prep? No, because at the end of the day you are going to have a very confused man who just had all three Degrees dumped on him in a single sitting with no education or time to digest what just happened. Was there any follow up to explain to them on a person to person basis what it is that they just went through, any education at all?? Did they even sit with any of the members of the Lodge they are petitioning besides an investigating committee of one or two brothers before having his petition voted on and making what is supposed to be a lifetime commitment? Did those Bros on the committee ask the man why he was petitioning and what he was looking for by joining? How many appendent bodies where there handing out petitions and doing initiations as well? That will get them even more confused. 8 hours later, 3 different dues cards in their wallet and confused as the day is long. I understand what you're saying. But let's face it, we really missed out on the majority of the Baby Boomers because we didn't move off the traditional model. We're very nearly passing Gen X by because we don't recognize how important diversity and social justice is to them. Let's face it, Freemasonry is really about diversity and social justice. What other organization is as accepting of men of all religions, creeds and colors? Yet, we only project ourselves as a bunch of old institutionalized elitists. Who does more for the sick and afflicted than Freemasons? No one. But we suck at letting the world know. Gen Xers don't have time to sit around and wait. It's not in their DNA. If we can appeal to their sense of helping others and keep their attention we'll get them. But sitting around in a boring business meeting, after months of waiting, ain't gonna work with them. Since Freemasonry isn't all about "Me", Millennials are probably going to be a lost cause. If we don't change how we do some things, Freemasonry ends with us. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 12:53:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I hate either or stances, so let's brainstorm. How do we appeal to the "must have it now" generation while instilling in them the most excellent tenets of our fraternity?
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Posted: 10/27/2015 2:54:29 PM EDT
[#20]
First, we have to go get them. We have to make it appealing and interesting.
Then, we have to let them progress in their postings at an accelerated rate, if they have the capacity and desire. These are educated people. They can process information much more quickly and efficiently than illiterate medieval brick layers. Next, we must give them something every time we have a meeting. Masonic education must be a part of everything we do. Business meetings will turn them away faster than anything. We must give them something to do. "Sit in the corner sonny, the adults are talking.", will not work with these guys. They have to be a part of what's going on. Appeal to their charitable nature. Educate them in what it is we really do for the world and let them then do it. Finally, involve their families. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 10:35:37 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't like it for reasons already assigned. We don't do it in our jurisdiction. The GM can make a man a Mason on the spot, but normally done under very serious circumstances.
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Posted: 10/27/2015 10:57:06 PM EDT
[#22]
We don't do it either. I'm not necessarily for it. It seems to be working elsewhere. All I am certain of is that what we have been doing no longer works.
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Posted: 11/3/2015 1:27:39 PM EDT
[#23]
I think rushing a man through the degrees robs him of the mystery and experience. In this day and age of instant gratification I think making a man wait and do the work is something needed. It lets you get to know someone that could be a brother. It allows the lodge time to defend itself against those that would do it harm. It allows the potential brother to truly know and trust those putting him through the ordeal. I think a one day class is classless casual and lazy.
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Posted: 11/12/2015 4:05:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Missouri removed ritual proficiency from the Grand Lodge Constitution in 1991. We still encouraged it in our Lodge but could not require it to advance. Missouri allows a one day EA to MM called "Chance to Advance". I never participated and while we couldn't discourage our incoming candidates we tried our best to explain how the proficiency would make their Masonic travels much more meaningful. We usually did the EA in Lodge so there was at least a foundation for the Brother. The only thing I liked about C2A was that while the EA and FC portions were done with a representative candidate, each MM was raised individually so they at least had the personal experience of the full degree.
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Posted: 11/23/2015 3:41:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No more education than most candidates get while going thru them normally it's about the same level of injustice. We need to start building Master Masons, not manufacturing them. this x1000 we keep wondering why masonry is dying off in many places. IMHO this is one of the big reasons. rush men through, teach them nothing, and then wonder why they see no value in staying a member. |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 9:49:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this x1000 we keep wondering why masonry is dying off in many places. IMHO this is one of the big reasons. rush men through, teach them nothing, and then wonder why they see no value in staying a member. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No more education than most candidates get while going thru them normally it's about the same level of injustice. We need to start building Master Masons, not manufacturing them. this x1000 we keep wondering why masonry is dying off in many places. IMHO this is one of the big reasons. rush men through, teach them nothing, and then wonder why they see no value in staying a member. There has to be a way to do both. The generation of men we should be targeting are the "have to have it right now" generation. We need to be find a way to make them Masons and at the same time instill in them the principles and tenets of the fraternity. Some jurisdictions still require all business to be done on the MM degree. How does an EA or FC participate until they are raised? If the lodge does not have a robust calendar outside of degrees and business meetings, what holds their attention for the months it takes to get through the degrees? I'm not trying to advocate that one method is better than the other, just trying to find a balance between the two that might help us appeal better to the generations to come. |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 10:06:27 PM EDT
[#27]
status as a MM is earned not given. a man being read a lecture and watching a "play" earns nothing. there is no incentive to become educated. nor is he properly vetted. part of the degree work also involves further vetting of a mans intentions nd gives the lodge time to stop him from progressing until he is ready. you can't do that giving all three degrees in a day. we don't need men to join for the sole reason of going to the shrine to party. i suspect that is a BIG reason the shrine has the problems it has today.
Masonry adapts but it does not changes it's traditions nor should it. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 1:11:38 AM EDT
[#28]
I think it's a horrible idea. I went through degree work with two men- both 30-40 years my senior. We are steadfast friends- would not have happened in one day. I think it steals the meaning of each individual degree. My grandfather raised me ....it meant so much more having him there for all three degrees.
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