Im looking for some incite on members with some background on these three breeds
1. German Shepard
2. Doberman Pincher
3. Black russian terrier

I am purchasing a new dog in october-novemeber timeframe.
Dog will be utilized primarily for property security and when older agility and Schutzhund trials.

I have spoken with the closest trainer and they have a local breeder who supplies GSDs to police and Military. (i didnt ask the kennels name though) i know shepards are good dogs but looking at other options.

The Doberman i have some experience with. My grandmother has breed and shown them for almost 50 years now and currently has 2. I like them alot but seem to have some health issues and not as smart as GSDs.

The black russian terrier. I like because it is not well known or hardly ever seen. Bloodlines not as ruined yet and the breed history is pretty bad ass. Only concern I have is with the heat. It hits in the 100s on my property and dog will mostly be outside.

If any memebers have knowledge on these breeds especially the russian please chime in.

None of those breeds work best mostly outside/by themselves. They work best with a person. It sounds as though you sort of want two different things.

If you are wanting a property guardian, look more toward livestock guardian types rather than personal protection types. They operate more independently and aren't as handler-focused.

In short, you have a lot more research to do before actually bringing home a dog of either type. Incidentally, how much acreage do you have and why are you seeking a protection type dog to patrol it?

I have zero health issues with my Dobermans. Choose a good breeder and it is very unlikely that YOU will end up with a Doberman that has health issues...

Mine are used daily to protect my person and property no matter if that is at work, home, the vehicles, or wherever I happen to be at.

It is not hard to teach a Doberman to be able to run on stuff that most people can't...





Do you have any personal dog training experience or are you just looking for a junk-yard type dog that you can toss out there and forget about that will bite anything that comes around your 'property'? Serious question there friend... Dobermans (as a general rule) tend to be very 'family oriented' dogs and are going to be more happy if they are near to their owner as much as possible. Not the sort of dogs that do well constantly chained up by themselves (or left alone) in a back yard somewhere...

What sort of 'work' exactly are you looking to do with your dog?

Am thinking that you got the same vibe here that I did...

Me three.

OP: any dog training experience? Forget breeds, what is your true expectation and working environment for this future dog?

You will be able to appreciate this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xff9axRGuE

She is doing 'name training' and pretty much nails it in my opinion.

FIFY

Remember, don't concentrate on breed, concentrate on breeder.

Realize that the key isn't to pick the best breed then get any dog of that breed, key is to find the breeder who is producing the kind of dogs you want and then buy from them regardless of what breed.


That being said...my opinion on your breed list.


GSD by raw numbers is the most popular.  By percent of dogs of the GSD breed that are going to be good protection dogs, it's small, but it's higher than doberman.


Doberman.  Yes, they can be good protection dogs, but by percentage of breed, it is smaller than for GSD.  Too many weak nerved dogs.  Breeding away from protective instincts and drives back when Doberman were considered a 'scary' breed has gone too far, once the ball got rolling on 'lightening up' the temperament, it built up steam and kept on rolling.


Black Russian Terrier.  In theory and on paper, a very powerful dog and a very good protective breed.  Reality is many dogs of dubious quality and fake papers have been imported, it's hard to know what you are getting.  Importing yourself is no better, lots of people in Poland, Ukraine, etc are churning out popular dog breeds and exporting junk claiming they are champions.


Note, if you are interested in BRT, don't forget the Giant Schnauzer.  BRTs are mainly Giant Schnauzer mixed with other breeds.  It was the Giant Schnauzer's work as a war dog and police dog that got the Russians heading down the road that lead to the BRT's creation.  Most working line Giant Schnauzers use the term Riesenschnauzer which is german version of name, and they also tend to use dogs tracing back to relatively recent german imports.

I believe that the owners / trainers contribute just as much to the 'wussification' as the breeders. (MORE in my opinion) It is not uncommon to see an otherwise 'good' dog be ruined by an idiot trainer.

How much candy does this guy need in his pocket to get his dog to do what it is 'supposed to do' anyway???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka4oQOW3h-c


I don't see Bonnie tossing any food in this video but her dogs seem to be doing what they are told to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_D6JoFcAeE



I would bet money that she could toss a raw steak off in a corner, tell her dogs to SIT and STAY, leave the building for a few hours, and come back to find the dogs still sitting there and the steak still intact and unaltered.

Her dogs are not 'special' stuff derived from pixie dust and moonbeams - They behave that way due to the way they were trained...

Just to protect my property . approx 100 acres. Mountains of Nor Cal heavily wooded. I have experience with pitbulls and dobermans. Both owned before

Basically i want a companion type dog. It will sleep in the cabin with me at night. The area i live in has alot of people who like to trespass and steal water out of the stream. I do not want a junkyard dog, my past dogs where never mistreated and always where pretty controllable off of the leash.

I just want to make a wise purchase and want a good dog to train and be able to be a protector when im sleeping n such. I just have alot of free time and i want to spend time now that i have it to work w a dog.

I can't speak on the other two breeds, but my GSD is slightly less work than having a child. It's something that changes your daily routine. For ateast the first few months, all of your plans will have to consider the puppy. That half hour you like to spend sitting on the couch after work? You'll spend that training him. Like to drink beer saturday afternoons? Hope you can run a couple miles with a buzz. Like to sleep in past 0630 on Sunday mornings? Puppy doesn't care. He needs to poop. And if you want any peace you better run him a couple miles, too.

Have you considered just a pet type that will bark and alert you?

Eta: I should say this was referring to working dogs. You could always find a mellower line, but it'll still need tons of time. Absolutely worth it if that's what you want and expect.

Interested as well . Very good input so far

Great Pyrenees

My Rott pup is a natural at guarding the property. Hes very vocal and very attentive. He does make training my APBT look easy, though. Smart, but twice as stubborn. If I could invent a way to harness his energy I would be a rich man.

I could do that with my Australian shepherd.

Part in bold is why I just purchased and setup a nice 10x10 black welded wire kennel with a roof. Pup gets up at 6AM on weekends and goes in kennel until 10 or 11 . Sometimes he stays out there until noon because he appears to be having a blast taking is toys and bones in and out of his dogloo house.

Add me to the choir on this.

OP- I don't have any experience with BRT's but I can tell you that generally speaking both the GSD and Dobermann are handler/family orientated dogs. They do not do well left alone outside to 'Guard' property. That isn't to say they aren't territorial because they most certainly can be. Just having territorial instincts in and of itself doesn't make a breed a good area guard though.

There are weather resistant, independent breeds better suited for property guard duties. As mentioned already the Livestock Guardian Dogs fit the bill nicely. Some are even basicly nocturnal.  BUT, IMO you need livestock of some kind to give the LGD's purpose in life and to keep them company. Even the independent breeds are still social animals.

Domestic dogs are broken up into breeds with specialized characteristics. You can ask a single dog to do it all and you might get one dog to do a half-assed job at many things. You just won't get grade A results in all areas. A Dobermann that sticks with you like glue and will give his life in your defense is likely to be sleeping snuggled next to you while a Coyote kills your chickens or the neighbor steals your tractor. A LGD will happily stay outside on alert (and bark/raise hell at every little noise-all night long). That independence makes for poor bidability and companionship though, etc, etc.

ETA:  Many people think that their GSD, Doberman, Rottweiler, etc. will protect them....... and in 90% of the cases, it will not.  The only way you will find out safely and without any legal hassles is through training and putting your canine in different situations and testing it. There is no magic breed where 100% of the individuals whelped are suited for protection or Schutzhund work.
The other option is to purchase a fully trained canine...... but YOU need to be trained first.

I decided against a dog that would protect me, and here's why:

I don't want the dog using his best judgement on who to bite and I don't want him getting in my way. The liability is too great with a dog that's willing to defend me or my property. He's too likely to bite the wrong person in the wrong context. I'm always armed, so I don't want him getting between me and a badguy. I'll do all the killing for us. And if he's outside my control, with a sitter, a vet, or on the loose after someone breaks down my door, I don't want him deciding for himself who needs to be bitten.
The way I guard against that is buying a dog that is pure companion. He'll bark and then run to mommy and get out of the way while I take care of business. If he gets out, everyone is safe. If I crash my car, any cop can reach in the crate and scoop up friendly puppy while they cart me off. Poorly behaved children can squeeze him, I never have to worry about lawsuits and criminal liability.

TLDR:I guess I'm more scared of hurting someone's kid than I am of getting property stolen. It's a non issue if I'm there, because I wouldn't use a dog because I have a gun.

I agree wholeheartedly with the liability issue.  I've known two people with GSDs - great GSDs - who got startled and bit a kid.  Both had to be put down.  One of the kids ended up in the ICU.  

I have a lab with a super mean but rare bark that has alerted me of suspicious behavior (and a few times some wildlife -mostly foxes- but I can live with that) in the middle of the night.  One time a stranger walked through the side gate, I assume to take a shortcut through my backyard, in the middle of the night and he somehow sensed it from inside the house with no possible way of seeing them - blew my mind.  When I'm away, my landlord has reported he fulfilled his duty of a mean bark and growl when he stopped by to check on the house.  I once had a friend unexpectedly join a party through the back gate and my lab scared all of us with his bark and charge.  As soon as he got to my friend who he'd never met, he sniffed him, looked back at me, and stood down.  I'm convinced that if he'd been a breed like a GSD or pit, my friend would've gotten torn to shreds.  You speak of a companion dog - you really can't beat a lab.  As others have mentioned, invest in one from an AKC-registered reputable breeder.  Or if you're the charitable type and willing to deal with some issues- look at rescues, there are a lot of pups out there that need good homes.

One final note - I've had neighbors with Dobermans that barked incessantly.  At everything.  It was the most annoying thing I've ever had to put up with from neighbors.  It got to the point that at least once a week I was knocking on their door at 2am asking them to shut their dogs up.  You don't want to be "that guy" in your neighborhood.  I know there is no way these dogs would serve anybody as a protector because since they barked at every little thing, I'm sure the owners wouldn't give it a second thought if they were actually barking at an intruder.

Also a trained dog is safer than an untrained dog. They are taught when to bite, where to bite, and when to release on command.

With that said a bite trained dog needs to be a clear headed and have the correct drives before even considering being a protection dog. BTW most of your average dogs do not have this and to get a puppy with these characteristics be ready to spend $1500 - $5000.