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Posted: 5/30/2015 10:55:58 AM EDT
[#1]
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What are you babbling about? The dog bit the kid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If your GSD/Mal actually bit your kid, I can guarantee that there would be more then ''tooth marks'' that didn't break the skin. What are you babbling about? The dog bit the kid. Owned a Mal/Shep mix of 100 lbs, if that dog actually bit someone, there would be FAR more then slight teeth marks with no punctures and some bruising. As far as bruising, young kids bruise extremely easily just like older people. I used to never bruise, now that I'm in my 50s, stuff I used to do that left no marks now leave bruising, such is life. Since it sounds like no one actually saw what happened, saying the dog bit in anger, over territory, or anything negative is not even an educated guess. And anyone who has ever read my postings on dogs knows that I have no issue putting down a dog if need be, just don't think this is one of those times. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 4:37:39 PM EDT
[#2]
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so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. Agree. The child AND the dog 'should' have BOTH been properly supervised in the first place and this would not have happened. OP screwed up. Owners that give a shit about their pets ONLY put them down as a last resort after trying every other possible way to solve the problem. How friggin CHEAP is a simple muzzle if one is too lazy to supervise? 
I don't agree with OP's actions here at all but I DO support his 'rights' as the dog owner to do as he wishes with his property. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 4:44:27 PM EDT
[#3]
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If your GSD/Mal actually bit your kid, I can guarantee that there would be more then ''tooth marks'' that didn't break the skin. Agree. Very likely that the dog was just giving a 'warning'. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 4:53:44 PM EDT
[#4]
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standing in the same room cooking dinner. you just can't seem to accept that the animal was wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Still not answering the question, what was your wife doing when this happened? Maybe she wasn't watching and the dog saved your kid from getting hurt. standing in the same room cooking dinner. you just can't seem to accept that the animal was wrong. The animal was wrong?!?!  it is animal...it does not make value judgments. You should have kept a better eye on you kid.
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Posted: 5/30/2015 5:05:56 PM EDT
[#5]
I feel for you OP, never and easy decision.
We have two dogs and a two year old. I love my dogs but if either one of them put teeth on the kid, the dog is going to be put down. It's just the rules I laid out when the child arrived. I won't like it and so far so good, but it's one of life's tough decisions. 
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Posted: 5/30/2015 5:16:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: that is a sad end...life of an animal is worthless to OP kids do stuff to animals, animals respond...OP murders animal even after by owning post saying he wasn't a witness to animal bite sad, Good Luck OP...life aint easy for people who only see black and white and do us all a favor.. NEVER GET ANOTHER PET You guys do us a favor and not try to speak for all of us. GOOD JOB OP. Never let a pet or live stock harm the family. A pet is not a family member, it is an animal. Food or tool. Never forget that. The moment it because a danger to your family, execute it with swift prejudice. Too many bleeding heart liberal types infecting these web sites. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 5:18:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those saying I wasn't there are correct. Are you suggesting my wife's word isn't good enough to explain that my child was bitten? I have a photo of the bite, which I took 14 hours after it happened. A simple "nip" doesn't retain bruising/marking after that long. And "train" a 14 year old dog to tolerate a toddler? Good luck. Let me guess, the dog in this .gif also needs the same training?: <a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/user/ld7x/media/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k102/ld7x/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif</a> (This is not my dog in the .gif) I didn't take letting go of my friend lightly. I posted here to vent about a situation where the end and necessary actions only had 1 good answer. so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 5:27:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those saying I wasn't there are correct. Are you suggesting my wife's word isn't good enough to explain that my child was bitten? I have a photo of the bite, which I took 14 hours after it happened. A simple "nip" doesn't retain bruising/marking after that long. And "train" a 14 year old dog to tolerate a toddler? Good luck. Let me guess, the dog in this .gif also needs the same training?: <a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/user/ld7x/media/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k102/ld7x/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif</a> (This is not my dog in the .gif) I didn't take letting go of my friend lightly. I posted here to vent about a situation where the end and necessary actions only had 1 good answer. so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. Give it a rest-right now, you're just playing the part of an asshole. I will assume that you are just putting on a show right now and this is not your true self.  Nick |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 5:32:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's because the dog did not bite the child. The dog restrained the child in the only way it can. Dogs have nothing but their mouth the grasp and hold. The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm reading through this thread and the responses are completely opposite of what I've been seeing on GD the years I've been on ARFCOM I've lost track of the number of posts I've seen where a dog bites a kid......and everyone ALWAYS says "put the dog down....no other right thing to do. It's a tough choice.....but kill the dog before it does it again". That was pretty much the overwhelming response to every "dog bites kid" post I've ever seen. Now for some reason this time....everyone is pissed that OP put the dog down. Very confused here........why the "save the dog, train the kid" attitude now when "kill the dog" used to be the go to response?? The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. Protecting the kid from what? Watching TV? Dog bites kid will ALWAYS end poorly for the dog-hopefully not too poorly for the kid as well. Why ion the blue fuck are you condoning a dog EVER biting a family member? That's just beyond fucked up. Nick |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#10]
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your 18 month old is 30 pounds? 
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If your GSD/Mal actually bit your kid, I can guarantee that there would be more then ''tooth marks'' that didn't break the skin. There are. Here we are 3.5 days later and there is still bruising at the site. I'm not going to "train" my child to avoid dogs. Dogs that bite my children are a problem. Folks here missing the disparity between the 18 month old child versus the 14 year old dog? How about 30 pounds versus 75? No dog is ever going to take precedence over my family, especially if that dog shows inclination to hurt and/or attack them. your 18 month old is 30 pounds?
Round abouts. Eating is the most favorite thing in the world right now. Soon she'll be like her older brother and stop I'm sure. He used to be the same way, now getting him to finish dinner is an everyday negotiation. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 7:57:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Protecting the kid from what? Watching TV? Dog bites kid will ALWAYS end poorly for the dog-hopefully not too poorly for the kid as well. Why ion the blue fuck are you condoning a dog EVER biting a family member? That's just beyond fucked up. Nick Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm reading through this thread and the responses are completely opposite of what I've been seeing on GD the years I've been on ARFCOM I've lost track of the number of posts I've seen where a dog bites a kid......and everyone ALWAYS says "put the dog down....no other right thing to do. It's a tough choice.....but kill the dog before it does it again". That was pretty much the overwhelming response to every "dog bites kid" post I've ever seen. Now for some reason this time....everyone is pissed that OP put the dog down. Very confused here........why the "save the dog, train the kid" attitude now when "kill the dog" used to be the go to response?? The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. Protecting the kid from what? Watching TV? Dog bites kid will ALWAYS end poorly for the dog-hopefully not too poorly for the kid as well. Why ion the blue fuck are you condoning a dog EVER biting a family member? That's just beyond fucked up. Nick There was no bite. It's just that simple. That is the only thing that is known. When a dog bites there will be blood and ripped skin. When a dog hold it is to stop an action, in this case that action is unknown. Could be holding to prevent the child from danger or it could be to prevent the child from further beating on the dog. Or you you saying that every person has the right to beat a dog without that dog doing anything to protect itself? I'm not saying this is what was happening, what was happening at the time is completely unknown to anybody. What is known is the dog purposely did not injure otherwise things would have come out differently. Anyone that does not know how to read dog posture, expression and actions simply should not own a dog. especially around children. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:21:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry I was unaware that you were there and witnessed the whole thing. So the child was simply watching TV you say and the dog came over to it and put it's mouth around it? Around what part? What were you watching? What time was it? What is the dogs name? What is the child's name? What city do they live in? OK here's a very simple one, what is the OP's name? Don't know the answers? Then how the fuck can you comment at all on what was going on at the time. There was no bite. It's just that simple. That is the only thing that is known. When a dog bites there will be blood and ripped skin. When a dog hold it is to stop an action, in this case that action is unknown. Could be holding to prevent the child from danger or it could be to prevent the child from further beating on the dog. Or you you saying that every person has the right to beat a dog without that dog doing anything to protect itself? I'm not saying this is what was happening, what was happening at the time is completely unknown to anybody. What is known is the dog purposely did not injure otherwise things would have come out differently. Anyone that does not know how to read dog posture, expression and actions simply should not own a dog. especially around children. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm reading through this thread and the responses are completely opposite of what I've been seeing on GD the years I've been on ARFCOM I've lost track of the number of posts I've seen where a dog bites a kid......and everyone ALWAYS says "put the dog down....no other right thing to do. It's a tough choice.....but kill the dog before it does it again". That was pretty much the overwhelming response to every "dog bites kid" post I've ever seen. Now for some reason this time....everyone is pissed that OP put the dog down. Very confused here........why the "save the dog, train the kid" attitude now when "kill the dog" used to be the go to response?? The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. Protecting the kid from what? Watching TV? Dog bites kid will ALWAYS end poorly for the dog-hopefully not too poorly for the kid as well. Why ion the blue fuck are you condoning a dog EVER biting a family member? That's just beyond fucked up. Nick There was no bite. It's just that simple. That is the only thing that is known. When a dog bites there will be blood and ripped skin. When a dog hold it is to stop an action, in this case that action is unknown. Could be holding to prevent the child from danger or it could be to prevent the child from further beating on the dog. Or you you saying that every person has the right to beat a dog without that dog doing anything to protect itself? I'm not saying this is what was happening, what was happening at the time is completely unknown to anybody. What is known is the dog purposely did not injure otherwise things would have come out differently. Anyone that does not know how to read dog posture, expression and actions simply should not own a dog. especially around children. There you go again. Okay, so your words: Hold, not bite. Dog HOLDS kid, ends poorly for dog-end of story. I don't care what reason the dog might have thought it had for putting its teeth on a family member who is supposed to OUTRANK the ANIMAL. Anyone who would defend the dog in ANY instance putting it's teeth on a family member for ANY reason, ESPECIALLY one that is very vulnerable, should not have family members. Especially children. Nick |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 2:10:59 AM EDT
[#13]
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[ There you go again. Okay, so your words: Hold, not bite. Dog HOLDS kid, ends poorly for dog-end of story. I don't care what reason the dog might have thought it had for putting its teeth on a family member who is supposed to OUTRANK the ANIMAL. Anyone who would defend the dog in ANY instance putting it's teeth on a family member for ANY reason, ESPECIALLY one that is very vulnerable, should not have family members. Especially children. Nick Thank you. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 2:48:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Op good job. I have the same rule in my house.
Either of the dogs bite my kid, for any reason and they're gone. No justifying, no anthropomorphism. Gone. It's my job as a father to put them first before anything. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:33:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Your vet was fine putting down an otherwise healthy animal? Unless of course you told them that it had bit your child. And, if so is he not legally obligated to report it? The whole rabies thing?
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:48:49 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm pretty sure any comment i have would be against coc.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 4:06:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm reading through this thread and the responses are completely opposite of what I've been seeing on GD the years I've been on ARFCOM I've lost track of the number of posts I've seen where a dog bites a kid......and everyone ALWAYS says "put the dog down....no other right thing to do. It's a tough choice.....but kill the dog before it does it again". That was pretty much the overwhelming response to every "dog bites kid" post I've ever seen. Now for some reason this time....everyone is pissed that OP put the dog down. Very confused here........why the "save the dog, train the kid" attitude now when "kill the dog" used to be the go to response??
School is out |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 8:31:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There you go again. Okay, so your words: Hold, not bite. Dog HOLDS kid, ends poorly for dog-end of story. I don't care what reason the dog might have thought it had for putting its teeth on a family member who is supposed to OUTRANK the ANIMAL. Anyone who would defend the dog in ANY instance putting it's teeth on a family member for ANY reason, ESPECIALLY one that is very vulnerable, should not have family members. Especially children. Nick |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:06:39 AM EDT
[#19]
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That's because the dog did not bite the child. The dog restrained the child in the only way it can. Dogs have nothing but their mouth the grasp and hold. The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm reading through this thread and the responses are completely opposite of what I've been seeing on GD the years I've been on ARFCOM I've lost track of the number of posts I've seen where a dog bites a kid......and everyone ALWAYS says "put the dog down....no other right thing to do. It's a tough choice.....but kill the dog before it does it again". That was pretty much the overwhelming response to every "dog bites kid" post I've ever seen. Now for some reason this time....everyone is pissed that OP put the dog down. Very confused here........why the "save the dog, train the kid" attitude now when "kill the dog" used to be the go to response??
The unknown here is why the dog was restraining the child. The wife was busy cooking, the OP wasn't there so this is never going to be known. Maybe the dog was stopping the child from some perceived danger, headed for an open door, stairway, hot stove. Whatever the case the dog did not bite and the OP over reacted and killed a family pet. I've had dogs my whole life, Trained dogs for many different roles and I've seen them do some amazing, intelligent things. With the information to OP has it was not a good kill. It is just as likely that he killed the dog for protecting his child as it is for the dog asserting any type of dominance over the child. Actually the odds favor the former as a dog will growl, chase and nip to assert dominance long before actual biting. The wife was probably facebooking and the op murdered an innocent animal, looks like we're going to have another special snowflake in our future. Maybe next time op makes a bad decision he shouldn't post it on a public forum. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:16:53 AM EDT
[#20]
My brother had a dog that bit the neighbors kid so he thought putting it down was the right thing to do, the day after he put the dog down the neighbors came over with the kid and the kid confessed that he was harassing the dog.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:17:52 AM EDT
[#21]
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Tough decision. I wouldn't have posted about it though. No shit. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:25:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Please try to remember that this is not GD.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:31:07 AM EDT
[#23]
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I appreciate it. It's not that I didn't care for my buddy, but there is no gray line when a child is involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't mean what did you do to provoke it, I just was wondering if you did put him down. A tough choice none the less but at his age it's probably better than finding a new home. Sorry for your loss I appreciate it. It's not that I didn't care for my buddy, but there is no gray line when a child is involved. You did the correct thing, dad. Good on you. Sorry for your loss. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:37:36 AM EDT
[#24]
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A pet is not a family member, it is an animal. Food or tool. My dogs are not food. And while they are sometimes tools, they are far more than that to me. They are companions deserving of love and respect. I put a lot of effort into raising, training and protecting my dogs. And while my dogs are certainly not "furkids" or "furbabies" a history of companionship, love, respect, training and service creates an undeniable bond. If I had a dog for 14 years that was getting a little crotchety in its old age (not unusual or unexpected) and it became an issue I would honor its service and love for me by protecting it from itself and others, not putting it down. Crates, kennels, runs and gates, just like when I was raising it as a puppy. Life would change a little bit, but it wouldn't end. To discard a lifetime canine companion in the manner described in this thread, as one might a broken or rusty old tool, and when there is an easy alternative, or even a not so easy alternative, is a powerful statement. It's definitely not a statement that I would be making, nor one that I can respect coming from others. And if the OP decides to post his story in a public forum like this then he's going to have to accept that all commentary might not be sympathetic to his actions. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:39:37 AM EDT
[#25]
FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. He doesn't get to train the baby humans he interacts with, he just has to take the hair pulling and the squeezing and sometimes the hitting. That's just what a good dog does. If it gets to be too much, his only option is to cry so I'll pull the baby off him. 14 is a good, long dog life. Nothing wrong with ending it there, before age makes inhibitions slip. It's very sad overall, but I don't see anything wrong with what the OP did. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:46:50 AM EDT
[#26]
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My dogs are not food. And while they are sometimes tools, they are far more than that to me. They are companions deserving of love and respect. I put a lot of effort into raising, training and protecting my dogs. And while my dogs are certainly not "furkids" or "furbabies" a history of companionship, love, respect, training and service creates an undeniable bond. If I had a dog for 14 years that was getting a little crotchety in its old age (not unusual or unexpected) and it became an issue I would honor its service and love for me by protecting it from itself and others, not putting it down. Crates, kennels, runs and gates, just like when I was raising it as a puppy. Life would change a little bit, but it wouldn't end. To discard a lifetime canine companion in the manner described in this thread, as one might a broken or rusty old tool, and when there is an easy alternative, or even a not so easy alternative, is a powerful statement. It's definitely not a statement that I would be making, nor one that I can respect coming from others. And if the OP decides to post his story in a public forum like this then he's going to have to accept that all commentary might not be sympathetic to his actions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A pet is not a family member, it is an animal. Food or tool. My dogs are not food. And while they are sometimes tools, they are far more than that to me. They are companions deserving of love and respect. I put a lot of effort into raising, training and protecting my dogs. And while my dogs are certainly not "furkids" or "furbabies" a history of companionship, love, respect, training and service creates an undeniable bond. If I had a dog for 14 years that was getting a little crotchety in its old age (not unusual or unexpected) and it became an issue I would honor its service and love for me by protecting it from itself and others, not putting it down. Crates, kennels, runs and gates, just like when I was raising it as a puppy. Life would change a little bit, but it wouldn't end. To discard a lifetime canine companion in the manner described in this thread, as one might a broken or rusty old tool, and when there is an easy alternative, or even a not so easy alternative, is a powerful statement. It's definitely not a statement that I would be making, nor one that I can respect coming from others. And if the OP decides to post his story in a public forum like this then he's going to have to accept that all commentary might not be sympathetic to his actions. I think we pretty much feel the same way about our dogs (except that I do see mine as a furbaby), but I would do the part in red the opposite way. I would love it enough to spare it from a massive lifestyle change by putting it down. Whether it's senility or incontinence or arthritis, I just don't see it as sad to put down an animal. Sad for the humans, sad for the dog buddies left behind, but the animal being put down is being spared from all the unpleasant changes that await it if it's allowed to continue aging. I'm not saying your way is wrong, just offering the opposite care-philosophy coming from a similar place of love and respect for furry friends. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:57:43 AM EDT
[#27]
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Tough decision. I wouldn't have posted about it though. This! |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 11:29:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Sad situation, OP. Sad all the way around.
For what it's worth, that was probably a good decision. The dog was old, possibly with health problems that may have contributed to the bite. Shelters would probably have put the dog down immediately, being an owner surrender with a bite history. Even if he did find a new home, the adjustment for a dog that age would be very difficult. And a lifestyle change involving crates and gates and constant separation would be tough too. Just sorry it came to that. 
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:49:18 PM EDT
[#29]
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The wife was probably facebooking and the op murdered an innocent animal, looks like we're going to have another special snowflake in our future. Maybe next time op makes a bad decision he shouldn't post it on a public forum. mur·der noun 1. the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. The OP didn't murder anything. He chose the well being of his child over a dog. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 5:18:50 PM EDT
[#30]
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An 18 month-old toddler? Yeah, that's great advice....
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Those saying I wasn't there are correct. Are you suggesting my wife's word isn't good enough to explain that my child was bitten? I have a photo of the bite, which I took 14 hours after it happened. A simple "nip" doesn't retain bruising/marking after that long. And "train" a 14 year old dog to tolerate a toddler? Good luck. Let me guess, the dog in this .gif also needs the same training?: <a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/user/ld7x/media/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k102/ld7x/brJ8XLK_zpsqftorxpi.gif</a> (This is not my dog in the .gif) I didn't take letting go of my friend lightly. I posted here to vent about a situation where the end and necessary actions only had 1 good answer. so when your kid gets burned by the stove...will you put that to sleep too? no..you TRAIN the kid. that is what parents do. An 18 month-old toddler? Yeah, that's great advice....
I raised 4 kids thru that age... it is good advice |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 6:00:58 PM EDT
[#31]
There are a lot of different opinions on this matter. I may have come off too quick and a bit brash (ya think!)
Lapp_Dance, while I may not agree with your handling of the situation, after a bit of personal reflection I realize that you did what you thought was right. But unfortunately in doing so you lost a good, loving and loved companion and for that I am truly sorry. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 8:56:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. . Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling?
Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm?
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:58:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling?
Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. . Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling?
Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 10:55:22 PM EDT
[#34]
This is why i have a zero tolerance rule for children- none are allowed at my place. I'm not losing my dogs or my guns because of an incident with a child.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 11:15:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. . Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling? Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. If a neighborhood bully kicks and beats your dog and it turns nips at the little shit will you have it killed? If your dog grabs a child's arm and pulls it out of danger will you have it killed for biting? The problem here is there is absolutely no proof that this very thing did not happen. That is the only real reason everyone here is not 100% on the OP's side. There is too much unknown. He was not there and his wife was busy cooking dinner. The OP himself even posted a response that indicates he will not teach his child respect for a dog nor work with a dog to tolerate a child. Nothing good can come from that. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 11:35:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And had (when) your marshmallow followed (or one day succumbs to) his own God given natural instincts as opposed to bending to your will would (will) you have him killed? If a neighborhood bully kicks and beats your dog and it turns nips at the little shit will you have it killed? If your dog grabs a child's arm and pulls it out of danger will you have it killed for biting? The problem here is there is absolutely no proof that this very thing did not happen. That is the only real reason anyone here is not 100% on the OP's side. There is too much unknown. He was not there and his wife was busy cooking dinner. The OP himself even posted that he will not teach his child respect for a dog. Nothing good can come from that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. . Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling?
Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. If a neighborhood bully kicks and beats your dog and it turns nips at the little shit will you have it killed? If your dog grabs a child's arm and pulls it out of danger will you have it killed for biting? The problem here is there is absolutely no proof that this very thing did not happen. That is the only real reason anyone here is not 100% on the OP's side. There is too much unknown. He was not there and his wife was busy cooking dinner. The OP himself even posted that he will not teach his child respect for a dog. Nothing good can come from that. I actually care a lot more about the marshmallow than I do about other people's children, so no, I wouldn't have him killed. If it was my kid, who knows? Maybe. They're both mine, so I could do whatever I thought was best. You see, I don't have to be just or even fair. He's just a dog, and it's just my child. I don't need any proof. Best guess is good enough. Heck, I could flip a coin right now and use that to decide whether I put him down in the morning. Same with exposing my child to risk. If my kid (or any kid) gets real fucked up, I may be on the hook, but short of that it's my call and I can do it on a hunch. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 12:39:28 AM EDT
[#37]
This is how a dog should act when a toddler is messing with it.
She removed herself from the situation as soon as it started and let me handle the child. That's a good dog. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 12:47:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Good call OP. The life and well being of a child far outweighs the "rights" of a pet, even a well loved one. Sorry for the difficult decision.
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Posted: 6/1/2015 6:38:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually care a lot more about the marshmallow than I do about other people's children, so no, I wouldn't have him killed. If it was my kid, who knows? Maybe. They're both mine, so I could do whatever I thought was best. You see, I don't have to be just or even fair. He's just a dog, and it's just my child. I don't need any proof. Best guess is good enough. Heck, I could flip a coin right now and use that to decide whether I put him down in the morning. Same with exposing my child to risk. If my kid (or any kid) gets real fucked up, I may be on the hook, but short of that it's my call and I can do it on a hunch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FWIW, my dog doesn't get to give "warnings" to humans with his mouth either. . Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling? Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. If a neighborhood bully kicks and beats your dog and it turns nips at the little shit will you have it killed? If your dog grabs a child's arm and pulls it out of danger will you have it killed for biting? The problem here is there is absolutely no proof that this very thing did not happen. That is the only real reason anyone here is not 100% on the OP's side. There is too much unknown. He was not there and his wife was busy cooking dinner. The OP himself even posted that he will not teach his child respect for a dog. Nothing good can come from that. I actually care a lot more about the marshmallow than I do about other people's children, so no, I wouldn't have him killed. If it was my kid, who knows? Maybe. They're both mine, so I could do whatever I thought was best. You see, I don't have to be just or even fair. He's just a dog, and it's just my child. I don't need any proof. Best guess is good enough. Heck, I could flip a coin right now and use that to decide whether I put him down in the morning. Same with exposing my child to risk. If my kid (or any kid) gets real fucked up, I may be on the hook, but short of that it's my call and I can do it on a hunch. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 6:53:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that is a sad end...life of an animal is worthless to OP kids do stuff to animals, animals respond...OP murders animal even after by owning post saying he wasn't a witness to animal bite sad, Good Luck OP...life aint easy for people who only see black and white and do us all a favor.. NEVER GET ANOTHER PET It's never the animals huh, always the kids that provoke. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:11:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well you best stay in LA then. If you did that in TN you would end up in prison. You can't just decide to kill pets here, it has to be fair and just otherwise it's a felony. 
Please show me the statute that says a pet owner can't have a pet put down unless isn't deemed "fair" and "just." |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:12:30 AM EDT
[#42]
A
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well you best stay in LA then. If you did that in TN you would end up in prison. You can't just decide to kill pets here, it has to be fair and just otherwise it's a felony. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Growling involves the dog using their mouth. This warns everyone that may be involved. With proper supervision this warning gives time to prevent any escalation and further problems. Neither the dog OR the child were properly supervised in THIS particular instance as far as I can tell by reading what was posted. What would happen if you opened your door to take your dog on a potty break and there was a 'kid' in your yard wearing a ski mask and hiding behind a bush? Do you put the dog down for being protective and growling?
Is your dog 'allowed to use his mouth' with humans that may be out to do you harm? I meant use his mouth to put teeth on someone, not use his throat to growl. He doesn't get to put his mouth on people as a warning. He's supposed to yip and whine if he's being hurt. He's supposed to growl at threats and apparent threats. Children hurting him aren't threats, so he's supposed to cry. I hurt or annoyed him a few days after I got him, he growled at me and he got held on his back for a lecture. I think he may have done the same thing again and he does growl at other dogs, but that's it. If I hurt him or a kid hurts him and he growls, he gets corrected, plain and simple. If he ever put teeth on a kid, I'd probably not let him play with kids anymore. eta: I wanted a perfect dog. I got one. There's too many perfect dogs out there to risk dealing with the messed up ones. With infinite resources, we could take great care of the special needs dogs, but we don't have infinite resources so we cherry pick the perfect dogs and focus on them. As far as protective biting? No, he's not supposed to do that either. That's not part of his job. His job is to be extremely soft and easy going and to be as safe as possible around strangers. I was absolutely sure when I got him that I was unwilling to do that protective pet trade off. He's strictly for love. Zero protection. My marshmallow. If a neighborhood bully kicks and beats your dog and it turns nips at the little shit will you have it killed? If your dog grabs a child's arm and pulls it out of danger will you have it killed for biting? The problem here is there is absolutely no proof that this very thing did not happen. That is the only real reason anyone here is not 100% on the OP's side. There is too much unknown. He was not there and his wife was busy cooking dinner. The OP himself even posted that he will not teach his child respect for a dog. Nothing good can come from that. I actually care a lot more about the marshmallow than I do about other people's children, so no, I wouldn't have him killed. If it was my kid, who knows? Maybe. They're both mine, so I could do whatever I thought was best. You see, I don't have to be just or even fair. He's just a dog, and it's just my child. I don't need any proof. Best guess is good enough. Heck, I could flip a coin right now and use that to decide whether I put him down in the morning. Same with exposing my child to risk. If my kid (or any kid) gets real fucked up, I may be on the hook, but short of that it's my call and I can do it on a hunch. Bullshit. You made that up. Show me laws and/or case law. You know why you can't? Because TN permits putting down animals absent aggravating cruelty, and defines aggravating cruelty. 'Fair or it's a felony'  what's next? "Ma'am, you're under arrest for not observing nap time and failing to share your cookies".
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:15:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please show me the statute that says a pet owner can't have a pet put down unless isn't deemed "fair" and "just." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well you best stay in LA then. If you did that in TN you would end up in prison. You can't just decide to kill pets here, it has to be fair and just otherwise it's a felony.
Please show me the statute that says a pet owner can't have a pet put down unless isn't deemed "fair" and "just." Be careful, if he filed a hurt feelings report on us, we could go away for a long time. 
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:30:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's never the animals huh, always the kids that provoke. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
that is a sad end...life of an animal is worthless to OP kids do stuff to animals, animals respond...OP murders animal even after by owning post saying he wasn't a witness to animal bite sad, Good Luck OP...life aint easy for people who only see black and white and do us all a favor.. NEVER GET ANOTHER PET
It's never the animals huh, always the kids that provoke. If you honestly believe that a GSD bit an 18 month old and it didn't puncture the skin, you're out of your mind or have never seen what a pissed off dog can do. "tooth marks and bruises" are useless when it comes to judging what happened because an 18 month old bruises like an 80 year old. Some dogs play like that. I remember running down the hall with my GSD mix and he would jump up, grab my arm, and run with me. It would leave "tooth marks" but it was never painful. I had that dog from when I was 2 until I was 20. OP didn't see the incident. OPs wife was cooking during the incident. No prior issues were mentioned Not a drop of blood. OP puts down dog that he's had for nearly all of its life. Makes sense.
Perhaps someone should have been supervising the toddler. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:35:34 AM EDT
[#45]
I'm on the fence with this one, and always have been.
At least this dog was 14. I've seen threads on here where people have put down young, desirable dogs for the same thing. Give your dog to someone without kids if you think it can't be around kids. The dog doesn't have to die. I also think some kids and some dogs need guidance on how to react with each other. Some kids don't, they respect the animal and interact accordingly. Some dogs don't, they understand what they're dealing with. But in other cases, one or the other (or both) need some instruction and guidance. Training is required. Dogs need to understand how you want them to react in some situations. Both my dogs are shelter dogs. I feel like I accepted responsibility for them by choosing them. I couldn't put them down for a behavior that I gave no effort to try to correct. My kids are 17,5,3 and an infant. My shepard tolerates them for short time periods and then gets away. My little mutt loves to play with them. And she puts her mouth on them while they play. No marks have ever been left and the kids love it. But I'm sure many here would kill her for it. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 7:40:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm on the fence with this one, and always have been. At least this dog was 14. I've seen threads on here where people have put down young, desirable dogs for the same thing. Give your dog to someone without kids if you think it can't be around kids. The dog doesn't have to die. I also think some kids and some dogs need guidance on how to react with each other. Some kids don't, they respect the animal and interact accordingly. Some dogs don't, they understand what they're dealing with. But in other cases, one or the other (or both) need some instruction and guidance. Training is required. Dogs need to understand how you want them to react in some situations. Both my dogs are shelter dogs. I feel like I accepted responsibility for them by choosing them. I couldn't put them down for a behavior that I gave no effort to try to correct. My kids are 17,5,3 and an infant. My shepard tolerates them for short time periods and then gets away. My little mutt loves to play with them. And she puts her mouth on them while they play. No marks have ever been left and the kids love it. But I'm sure many here would kill her for it. Apparently so. OP - is this your first child that has grown up around the dog, or was this a relatively new experience for the dog? |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 8:54:56 AM EDT
[#47]
Ar-15TechGuy: empty your IM inbox!
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Posted: 6/1/2015 9:19:31 AM EDT
[#48]
It's your dog. I've got no problems with you putting the dog down. I'm glad your kid is ok.
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Posted: 6/1/2015 9:44:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are a lot of different opinions on this matter. I may have come off too quick and a bit brash (ya think!) Lapp_Dance, while I may not agree with your handling of the situation, after a bit of personal reflection I realize that you did what you thought was right. But unfortunately in doing so you lost a good, loving and loved companion and for that I am truly sorry. In my opinion it was a rock and a hard place. The event happened in the kitchen where my wife was. The house is merely modest in size, so separating them would not have been feasible, especially since she's becoming more mobile as she gets older. I cared for the dog, but that doesn't trump my children. She doesn't hit, and loves the other dog in the house, so I know without a doubt it wasn't a matter of provoking the dog. I didn't see that there was any other option due to the event, and ages of those involved. While we may not agree on the outcome, I appreciate your sentiment. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 11:25:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently so. OP - is this your first child that has grown up around the dog, or was this a relatively new experience for the dog? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm on the fence with this one, and always have been. At least this dog was 14. I've seen threads on here where people have put down young, desirable dogs for the same thing. Give your dog to someone without kids if you think it can't be around kids. The dog doesn't have to die. I also think some kids and some dogs need guidance on how to react with each other. Some kids don't, they respect the animal and interact accordingly. Some dogs don't, they understand what they're dealing with. But in other cases, one or the other (or both) need some instruction and guidance. Training is required. Dogs need to understand how you want them to react in some situations. Both my dogs are shelter dogs. I feel like I accepted responsibility for them by choosing them. I couldn't put them down for a behavior that I gave no effort to try to correct. My kids are 17,5,3 and an infant. My shepard tolerates them for short time periods and then gets away. My little mutt loves to play with them. And she puts her mouth on them while they play. No marks have ever been left and the kids love it. But I'm sure many here would kill her for it. Apparently so. OP - is this your first child that has grown up around the dog, or was this a relatively new experience for the dog? Oh please. Mouthing in play is a totally different thing from a dog giving a 'correction' to a human. Just like play growling is different from aggressive growling. |
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