Yeah dude, it's been a bit of a struggle, but I'm pushing 50 now and feel like diversifying will keep me in the game for the long haul.

This is something I've kept under wraps, but I went to work for Live Nation as a Production Manager and lasted exactly a month at one of their venues . There's a lot to be said for staying in your own world. I'm back at my old job now; I actually gained a promotion upon returning, so I'm still in that PM role, just not for Live Nation. It's still a bit weird being in a leadership position at shows, and sometimes I wish I could go back to being a freelance audio guy, but I think it fits where I'm at right now. It's putting that life experience that would otherwise be wasted to good use.

If there's one thing I'd really like to sharpen up on it's doing exactly what you describe. I don't have the opportunity to deploy different systems on a regular basis like you do, but I feel like I could at least do more to optimize the house system I'm on. Loudspeaker processing, acoustic measurement, and IT are all things at which I could be better, so please keep posting as you see fit.

This year I’ve decided to shake stuff up a bit and just signed paperwork to start working with Clair, so I get it. They are no longer the elephant in the room, they are THE room. I’ll still be freelance, but will be taking work with them. The money is right and I get to cherry pick my gigs, so I’m OK with it all.

No real question...I went to two shows on back-to-back nights, each end of the concert spectrum: big name band, 20,000 attendees and bands no one has heard of (except 16-24 year old girls), 500 attendees.  

Fall Out Boy at Blossom Music Center, just under 20,000 attendees:
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Destroy Boys and opening bands.  Beachland Ballroom https://www.beachlandballroom.com/, about 500 attendees:
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Always thought this was a cool career field. I’ve got a few friends who are in this line of work, and I’ve got some experience with club venues but nothing bigger than that.

Do you guys typically record every show for the bigger artists each night? Seems it would be good evidence to have if an artist or production manager tried to say you screwed something up in the mix.

No. Bigger artists travel with their own mixing engineers. As a house engineer, I'm handing the controls to whoever the band brings in, so if the mix is screwed up, it's on them.

How do you handle the tapers and bootleggers that want a "board patch" for a good recording?

We have a friend in the Dallas area that is a taper and some of his clandestine rigs for audio and video were quite clever. He also did some quite good bootlegs. This was 10-15 years ago. Is this still a thing or is this just with certain bands these days?

Along the same line as this, son's band wants a good recording of their upcoming show at a large club that has professional setup.  Just ask the club's sound engineer? Whats the best way for an underfunded band to get a good recording off the board? They are way downbill opener for a lesser known national touring act. I'd guess they should get in touch with the top billed act and see if they can hop on whatever they might be recording?

It's not something I run into often, so I'll give you my general opinions.

First off, you're talking about two different things. Everything is supposed to be at the discretion of the band; "tapers" have permission to record, bootleggers do not.

So if I was working for a band that welcomed tapers, and provided a space for them to set up their gear, (which I never have), I'd be obligated to accommodate them.

If I was working for a band that didn't, and some Joe Schmo asked to patch his Zoom recorder into my console, the answer would be a firm no.

Regarding bootlegging, I've believed for some time that bands have given up on stopping people from recording their shows. Not only because recording devices are so ubiquitous and easy to conceal, but because there's no money in bootlegging anymore. Nobody pays for recorded music these days, so it's not like bootleggers are undercutting bands by selling alternate versions of their material. And if artists aren't losing any money to them, why care?

Just my two cents.

Sure, ask the sound guy, and ask him in advance if you can. I got a text just a couple of hours ago from a band asking if they could do just that.

Have him do a multitrack recording if possible. It's so easy now. In the above case, the band will bring a laptop and come out of a USB port on my console. It will send each channel to a discrete track on their machine, and they can mix it down later.

What you don't want is a copy of the stereo (or oftentimes mono) mix that's going to the house PA. Those rarely sound good on tape, because they're tailored for the house. If a guitar player is too damn loud, for instance, he may not even make it into the PA, because his amp is loud enough on its own. What's more, the sound dude will have to work to get vocals over the guitar, which means pushing vocals hard though the PA. If may sound balanced in the house, but if you take a feed of that mix and put it on tape, you guessed it, there will be no guitar and the vocals will be blaring when you go back and listen to it.

If you can't get in touch with the production people at the venue before the gig, just practice good etiquette when approaching the sound engineer on the show day. Most guys are willing to go the extra mile to help, provided they're not too slammed. If your son has his gear together and knows what he's doing, and can make it an easy process for the soundman, it's much more likely to happen. It's people that come off as needy and unprepared that piss me off. I'm taking care of a million things; if you want something extra like a board feed, don't ask me for a cable you could've brought yourself, or to perform some part of the task that you could accomplish on your own.

eta: Just saw your idea about asking the headlining act about recording. That would be a waste of time. You want to get in touch with someone on the venue's production staff. How did your son's band get the gig? Do they have any sort of deal memo? Anything in writing? There should be a contact person on there for the production advance. Your son should be reaching out regardless, just to discuss their general setup.

I'll find out. One of the band members has a dad that was really overbearing so I've tried really hard to keep my distance and to only help when asked to avoid that situation. They got the gig from one of the other bands that got on the bill that's always been supportive and promoted them at every opprtunity. I think its because my son's band is really tight live and gets the audience energized. Probably time to ask him if they are getting appropriate contracts for these larger gigs that are coming their way. This one's at White Oak Music Hall in August and they're also openin for another band at Warehouse Live in August (both Houston).

Ugh. The overbearing dad. Seen that shit before

Is he trying to manage the band, and if so, does he know the first thing about going about it?

He had some live sound experience.

I did live sound in a past life, but obviously nothing like the heavy hitters here.

One thing I want to touch on for the guy who asked where his bass sound went:

I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD I WILL COME BACK THERE AND TURN YOUR AMP BACK DOWN IF YOU INCREASE MY STAGE VOLUME ONE FUCKING dB.

The band doesn't know a damned thing about live sound and they generally need to be herded like animals.  If I was hired by the band, they already know that my word goes and they trust me to make them sound good for the audience.  If I work for the venue, then the band can eat a dick they are being paid by my boss and my word goes and my job is to make them sound good for the audience.

In my opinion, what separates good monitor and FOH guys from the normal dregs is the guys who know how to pocket the different instruments and vocals with each other so there is clarity for the audience.  Bass players are the worst culprit at harming this balance with excessive stage volume because they have a muddy, poorly-defined sound (Ampeg users I am looking at you) that is washing with the kick drum and the low end of the guitars.  They turn their amp up to hear themselves instead of keeping quiet and having the monitor engineer get a good balance of kick, guitar, and vocal in their wedge.  And then there is no way to pull that back out of the FOH mix in a smaller venue.  So you get nothing but kick and bass guitar flubbing away and can't hear the vocals or guitar.

Also, to this end, it is my firm opinion that sound check should really be a line check (ensure your signal chain is good on everything) followed by the full band playing together.  You can't pocket the instruments if you spend ten minutes tuning the kick and toms so they sound good in isolation.

In-ear monitors are about the best thing to happen to live sound since the advent of the SM57.  They make all this friction between the band and the engineers go away, generally.

On the other hand, if a guitarist wants to play with 9 amps on stage all set to stun and that’s what he wants to do, then hires the “pros” and pays us a lot of money to make him sound good on stage and there’s no changing his mind… Doesn’t matter if the average age of the audience is 65 and the venue is a small 3k seat theater… Well, that’s what he’s going to do and the job we signed up for. I call it damage control or guerrilla audio. I do my best to make it the best I can. It’s a challenge, but it keeps it interesting and fun.

As for my upcoming tour… I’m just hoping to avoid getting shot for the next 6 weeks. I have a feeling this is going to be wild.

I am feeling pretty good about you having to worry about gansta shit instead of real shit like the FOH guy mixing like ass.

Honest question: why do small venues always sound way too loud and unbalanced? Sorry if that's not the proper term in this context. And no, I'm not that old

Personal disclaimer, this is not my usual type of music. Went with a group from work. Sometimes you find something cool when you step outside your comfort zone, but this wasn't one of those times...

Here's an example of a show I saw this week.  Small venue, holds about 1400. I know the recording isn't great, but gives a good idea of how it sounded live. Drums were overpowering, vocals muddy, guitar almost unbearable.

Hehe, I call it combat audio.

Guys who don't know how to mix still get work.

I mixed a ten piece Latin band last night. Had a guy come up to me claiming to be the former touring LD (lighting director) for Ted Nugent and Heart. I believed him.

He complimented me on my mix, and went on to say that he had just attended a similar show where the drums were overpowering and the vocals were buried (just like the situation you described). He said, "That's how guys who don't know what they're doing do it."

I don't claim to be the world's greatest audio mixer, but I do know what people want, and I usually manage to deliver it. I think you either have the ear for it or you don't.

eta: I think a lot of bad mixes could be solved by guys simply listening to recordings of music similar to what they're trying to mix live, and conforming to that. In the case of Latin pop, did Selena's albums have overpowering drums and buried vocals? No? Then don't worry so much about tweaking the 15 mics you put on the drum set and concentrate on the lead vocal. People generally don't give a shit about how loud and clear you can make the drums. It's not Pantera. They just want to feel the beat and be able to sing along. I think a lot of sound dudes are worried about impressing other sound dudes in the audience, like, "Oh shit, if the kick drum isn't killing everyone, some other sound dude is going to think I'm a lazy pussy."

I saw Alice Cooper, Ministry, and Rob Zombie a few weeks ago and the FOH mix for Ministry was terrible, Alice Cooper was really well balanced and sounded pretty old-school, and Rob Zombie sounded crazy modern and clear.

There are guys touring with some pretty big name acts that can't mix FOH for shit.

Now you get down to the small venue with an in-house guy that maybe worked in the theatre at his high school... and his FOH experience has been listening to guys doing shitty sound checks and they just "know" that they need that low end for it to "sound great."

It is what it is but man do I hate listening to the bass fight with the kick all the while not being able to hear the guitars, keys (except maybe low frequency pads), and especially the vocals.

The vocal performance is the most important part of music.  It is the human instrument and our ears are tuned to it.  The lyrics and melody are the part of a live performance that engage with the audience and they should always be up front.

My current life situation.



Thank god the pay is good.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me, fren.

A good friend of mine who spent his whole career mixing arena tours for big rock bands, just started doing some hip hop groups in recent years just to see what it was like. He said he actually enjoys it lol.

This is hands down the worst managed tour I’ve ever been on. Hip hop/rap tours are always complete chaos. I knew going in this was going to be a shit show, but this surpassed all expectations. Each day I keep thinking it has to be better than the last and each day I’m constantly surprised at how sideways shit keeps going.

Yeah I’m not surprised this is how Wu-Tang Clan rolls. I’d be packing heat if I was on that tour. These are the clowns who recorded a whole album a few years back then sold the masters as a single copy lol.

ETA oh how I miss the shenanigans of Ol’ Dirty Bastard… lol

Dude, the best and most frequent story my PM/A1 told me was about the time those guys played our little 1,000 seat theater. I think it was in 2010. They've moved up in the world if they're playing arenas now. I'm curious as to how that happened with a 90s rap group. Is this one of those package tours with similar artists on the bill?

I'm also wondering how you jump from tour to tour. How does the network you're in operate?

It’s Nas and WuTang. We’re doing decent sized arenas that are selling 180*. Barclays today, if that’s any judge. The crowds are very diverse though. Folks from all walks of life out here. Truly I just think it’s nostalgia for a lot of people.

My name is just out in the industry. I’m one of the “top” SE’s out there for a specific brand of brown speakers. I’m also a whore and get around during the down time from my main tour. Most of the large companies that own K1 know me though. This gig is specifically a career move to getting in the good graces of Clair and getting some long term work through them as the dynamic of my main tour has changed.

You are mixing FOH as well as being a system engineer, correct? How many touring A1s would you say are doing both?

Do you put in extra hours as the system is being loaded in, flown, and tuned? Then you're there on show days mixing?

No mixing, just SE/crew chief on this. I get in around 7am to work with the rigger to mark out points, and then supervise the load in/set up FOH. I have a crew of 4 techs including myself. They fly the PA and set the stage for me. I’ll generally call the truck dumps, set FOH, then have some stagehands do subs/front fills for me and I’ll have my techs plug everything in. I usually tune from 1-2pm and then it’s a crap shoot for sound-checks pretty much up until doors. We’re usually loaded out in an hour and a half or so. Show gets done around 11pm and I usually have my couple trucks loaded by 12:30 or so. I’ll pack up FOH, have some hands do snakes and then I call the truck packs while my techs supervise and load out their bits.

@HDK126

I have a bit of a 911 situation if you have time to offer some advice. I took a walk from my job yesterday, and I'm already taking calls from venues seeking freelancers as well as a potential employer.

I am being asked by this company if I am good with networking and Dante. I am not. I've been on the same system for the past five years, and my former job required none of those skills. The system was installed before I went to work there, and was pretty stable during my tenure. If we did have any networking issues, we called the installer. I was primarily focused on advancing and running shows, not doing IT stuff.

I knew that not developing networking chops would eventually bite me in the ass, and now here I am. The company that wants me to interview does the corporate events thing, and as much as I'd like to stay in music, I feel like my entrance into setting up corporate A/V systems may be inevitable.

I am struggling with how to answer the above question. I am more than willing to learn and know that I need to do so, but I could use some guidance on how to navigate these waters. Thanks in advance if you're able to offer some pointers.

I dropped him a line to let him know you had a question.

Long answer short is, Dante is purely networked technology and you need a firm knowledge in networking. I know many people that are Dante certified that cannot set up anything Dante to save their life. The first two certifications are purely sales pitch where the third is some actual technology. I recommend starting down the CompTIA Network+ path as it’s much more comprehensive and at the end of it you’ll learn and have an understanding of what the technology is based on. Everything in audio is digital now and with that skillset you’ll be light years ahead of most techs out their. It’s a long road and quite difficult. However you never need to take the exam, just get to a point where you’re comfortable with the stuff. Professor Messer, Mike Meyers and a few other have good free/cheap study guides and courses online.

Unfortunately most corporate work is all a A LOT of Dante. There a plenty of guys that don’t do Dante though. Luckily it’s mostly Yamaha consoles and Rio racks. Most of the time companies are sending out the SWP switches which are preprogrammed from Yamaha and plug and play.

My advice is just be honest with the companies about where your skills lay and most of the time there will be an A1/A2 on the gig that can assist if you don’t know something. It’s better to be honest and be given gigs your comfortable on and potentially have support for lacking areas than burning a bridge and being underwater causing a gig to go sideways.

The good news is EVERY company on the planet is looking for freelance techs right now. The labor pool is very small and the demand is massive. Just start sending emails and you’ll get work immediately.

Thanks. That is massively helpful.

I've already replied to this company, and I did exactly what you said which is to just be honest.

The demand for freelance techs is kind of crazy. I'm honestly wishing I had taken a week off before reaching out to people. I got dates right off the bat and took them when what I really wanted to do was take a deep breath and reevaluate my situation. Not complaining, though.

Thanks again.

My advice is take all the gigs you can right now, because winter slows down a little outside of corporate and the companies that are busy are going to keep their regulars working, so get it while you can. Jan and Feb will be a bit slow, but come March the madness will start again.

Dude, that's so great to hear. It really affirms that now was the time to quit my job. I thought about finishing out the year, but I knew that that would be a bad idea for exactly the reasons you list.

That's pretty cool.

First show since going back to freelancing
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I spy Kara, VDOSC and M4’s. Fuck yeah.

Glad to hear you got work immediately. It’s wild out there right now. Shouldn’t be too hard to keep the momentum going for a bit.

Yeah man, it's honestly quite insane. Went from being A2 on that crazy Death Grips show last night to doing a small municipal festival today. Got a call in the middle of it to do a corporate thing with a band tomorrow. Turned it down. I have Monday & Tuesday at a little 1,000 cap place in Fort Worth and I need a day off.

Sitting here dicking around with the house Avantis console while the touring BE gets to have all the fun.

Hope I get to mix on this board soon. It's pretty neat.

Maybe I need to break down and hit the road

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The Avantis used to be unusable. They updated the firmware so the console behaved like the DLive’s. Before the update it was an actual nightmare to use. It’s still a bit different, but greatly improved.

Funny, the dude last night had a dLive. I'm not familiar with those either, but I did talk to him about his for a couple of minutes.

I need to get my hands on some more consoles. It's been great having steady house work, but I've been between two venues for the past ten years and that means proficiency on two boards: a PRO2 on the first one and an M32 on the second. Sucks that for the past five years I've really only touched an M32. I'm glad I'm back to freelancing and getting into challenging situations again, but I'm coming at it from a place of stagnation, technically speaking (although I have developed some PM chops that I think are valuable).

I've talked to a couple of corporate A/V places and they both use CL5s. I've never touched one.

Any advice on how to get one's hands on unfamiliar consoles? Normally I just ask around until I find someone who, in his good graces, says "yeah, you can come play with my (insert console type here)", but I could always use tips.

All that said, man is it good getting back to doing some cooler shows. For the first two songs the band last night did the thing where perform behind a backlit scrim. They just had their stage crew on risers flicking flashlights around by hand. It's that kind of neat creative stuff that I've been missing.
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Two consoles you won’t see much of at all. Most everyone off loaded their Midas anything and most pro level rental houses don’t use M32/X32s at all.

You will see lots of Yamaha consoles in the corporate world due to the simplicity of Dante routing, built in PSE’s and Dugan auto mixers. CL/QL’s are very common and damn near all you see in that world. Start with the offline editor to familiarize yourself with it. Fortunately the Yamaha interface is so intuitive that you can pretty much walk up to the console and be fine for basic stuff. Some stuff you’ll have to do some digging with, but again just be honest going into the gigs. You’ll probably be best suited for small break out rooms as A1 and other gigs as A2. You’ll get the experience as you go. Just be honest with your clients and those booking you. You can always rent a console or see if there are any local rental houses that’ll let you set something up and route some shit around.

YouTube is actually great for tutorials for everything corporate.

OK, I have an observation now.

At my level (venues from around 1000-3500 cap) most touring sound engineers do not use Smaart to test the house PA and make adjustments. They come in, play some music, listen, and then proceed to soundcheck their bands.

Recently an act came in where the monitor engineer hit the room with pink noise, took measurements, and adjusted the mains with his processor. He then handed it over to their FOH engineer.

The monitor engineer very generously walked me through the process. He knew his shit. He explained every step, and I learned some things.

I did not, however, approve of the results. Based on his initial measurements, he radically reduced the level of our subs, and reduced some low mids. When he played some music after doing this, it wasn't right to me at all.

In all fairness, the style of his band did not dictate the use of heavy bass, but still, there was virtually no low end during the show.

I've been in this room several times now, and almost all of the other touring engineers have been able to come up with better mixes without taking any measurements or making any adjustments to the house PA.

Because most people try to tune flat with a haystack starting around 120hz. Flat is awful to my ears. It’s harsh, abrasive and fatiguing. It does not sound good. A lot of these guys are probably setting up one mic at FOH, ignoring any sort of spatial averaging that was done with multiple mics in the room during the install and destroy the PA to get FOH “perfect”. They’ll add in a million filters on their Lake overlay, create tons of phase shift, timing inconsistencies and a multitude of other issues. Then they have Smaart going during their show and try to get their mix flat as well. Flat is, excuse the term, not “musical”. Those guys who comes in and play tracks, do some tasteful cuts and go about line checking are making something sound pleasing to the ear and what works for their mix. Most engineers want something different out of the PA as well, whether they want the console to do the work, the PA, or a happy medium. That being said, I have multiple target curves for Smaart that I use. I have one for when I SE to start with for an engineer to walk up to, a curve for what I want to mix on, a flat “rock” curve, and a flat curve I use for corporate where I want the response to get me the most gain before feedback on lavs and podium mics. Corporate is the ONLY time I personally want a flat response out of a PA.

Lots of engineers walking into venues with house rigs and venues of that size are grossly incompetent. I hear about the silly stuff all the time from my house guy buddies.

To be fair I was just in a venue with a properly installed K2 rig. We decided to use the house rig instead of flying our own that day. Upon opening the file, there was NOTHING done as far as tuning. The venue had no start file with EQ, timing, optimization, anything. There was a starting LANM file, but it was completely empty. They said it’s always been that way and they let whoever comes through do what they want. Unbelievable there was ZERO starting point for touring act to use. It took me twice as long to tune that rig as it would’ve my own. Had I not had an extensive Smaart rig with me and a bunch of measurement wireless, that system would’ve taken me a few hours to get into a usable spot. Completely unacceptable.

That’s just my $0.02.

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I use a m32 in a small church and it really makes me miss the soundcraft boards we use to have. we have myers dual 18's for subs and JBL SRX906LA for mains.
I have noticed most of the young guys like the sound really bright with little bass,  me I am still stuck in that 70's bar band sound and the young pastors don't mind when I tell them I use a lot of thump to move those rumps lol
it is kind of sad that most Christian music doesn't use the dynamics that most good rock bands do

The lack of Matrixes on the SQ5 drives me nuts. A small corporate company in area has a bunch of them and I use them with them from time to time. Not a bad little console for what it is and the price point. I feel like the EQ doesn’t start doing a thing until you really make cuts though. The automixer (Dugan wannabe thingy) does it’s best to try to do a thing. Again, for the price, it’s not bad.

Do you guys do the lighting too or is that controlled by a different console?  Are the lights computer-controlled or a manual operation?

Different console, different operator (referred to as an LD for Lighting Director or Lighting Designer).

Regarding the second question, it's a bit of both. The LD can program moving light sequences that are cued manually, i.e.  "computer controlled" looks that go into effect when the operator hits a button.

But yeah, most of what you see at decent-sized shows is deliberate. Sure, automation exists just like it does anywhere else, but in my world there's always an LD making moves from behind the board as the show dictates.

I'm continually impressed by touring LDs who can walk into a venue and take command of the house lighting system, spending all afternoon programming looks to suit their show. Most acts who tour with an LD also carry their own lighting packages that they integrate with the house system. It's amazing how these guys bring it all together in a day.