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Posted: 2/19/2015 11:07:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I had a Greenback in the Blues Jr I used to have. And frankly, I didn't like it all that much better than the stock speaker.
I ended up selling it before I got around to trying other speakers. |
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Posted: 2/20/2015 4:14:14 PM EDT
[#2]
How did it differ to your ears from the stock speaker?
I'm starting to think that choosing a speaker won't be easy without trying several and that will get expensive. I went to this page but still couldn't make up my mind: http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=295 I guess what I don't like about the OEM speaker is that the highs are dull, even when I play with a Strat I have the treble is almost dimed and the bass is flubby at the medium volumes I play it at (4-7 on the preamp and 7 on the master volume). |
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Posted: 2/20/2015 9:45:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Honestly, there wasn't a whole lot of difference, IMHO. And Bill M is a great resource for the Blues Jr. I had planned on doing some of his mods, but after tallying up what it'd cost, I realized I'd be better off just building from scratch.
Given what you said about the treble, I would probably rotate the speaker baffle so you have the room, and throw a Swamp Thang (if you like low mids/half cocked wah tones), or a Celestion G12H-30 (if you want a good all-round speaker with the top end you seek) in there. |
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Posted: 2/20/2015 10:44:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Also, I don't know which tubes you're running, but I found that I liked Tung-Sols in V1 & V2 with a JJ in V3 (the phase inverter). The Tung-sols have some extra top end sparkle and the JJ in the PI hole brings out a little extra growl on higher gain settings.
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Posted: 2/21/2015 1:34:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, there wasn't a whole lot of difference, IMHO. And Bill M is a great resource for the Blues Jr. I had planned on doing some of his mods, but after tallying up what it'd cost, I realized I'd be better off just building from scratch. Given what you said about the treble, I would probably rotate the speaker baffle so you have the room, and throw a Swamp Thang (if you like low mids/half cocked wah tones), or a Celestion G12H-30 (if you want a good all-round speaker with the top end you seek) in there. The G12H-30 Heritage was my other contender but it's pricey. I'm not worried about how much money I put into the amp as I'm not planning on selling it. I like the inefficiency of the greenback as I'm no longer using attenuators with my amps so anything that brings the volume down helps. In fact, since you ask about tubes in my Blues Junior, I'm using JJ EL844s for power tubes (a lower-power EL84, something like 3 watts less per tube IIRC) but unfortunately I'm still running the OEM Fender Groove Tubes in the pre amp section  . I've never given much thought to changing the pre-amp tubes. I figured the Blues Junior could use improvements in other areas first. Up to this point the to-do list only includes the tone stack mod, adjustable bias mod, and a new speaker.
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:41:47 AM EDT
[#6]
I also ran JJ EL-844s. But yeah, the stock preamp tubes aren't anything to write home about. They're not bad, but they aren't great either.
And IMHO, those three mods would go a long way to making it a better amp. The mids are the heart and soul of an amp, the Blues Jr series has a factory bias that is waaaaaay to cold, and the stock speaker doesn't really sound good unless you have more watts getting pumped into it. Also, you can play around with slope resistor values. 56k - 33k are traditional Fender Tweed/classic Marshall values which give the mids a more mid/upper mid focus and a 100k is what was used in old Blackface Twins and similar amps which gives an amp's mid control a focus more towards the low mids. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 12:34:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Have you had your ears checked? The highs are typically the first to go.
Was your speaker stored in a damp environment? (ETA: I see you are in NM so except for a pipe burst I wouldn't expect too much humidity unless it's setting next to your swamp cooler.) I've got a speaker that became very dull after it survived a basement flood. Speaker was elevated and didn't get directly wet but the several days of near 100% humidity killed the highs. I replaced the speaker with an Eminence Governor and have been quite pleased but you might want to check out other offerings in the Eminence line-up if highs are what you want to accentuate. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 12:42:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Every Eminence I've played through had rolled off highs compared to the Celestion they were supposed to be like.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 7:05:35 PM EDT
[#9]
@ Green_Canoe,
No water or humidity issues with the speaker, the OEM speaker is simply 'meh'. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 1:02:58 AM EDT
[#10]
EV
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Posted: 3/2/2015 5:01:29 PM EDT
[#11]
After some more research I think the Eminence GB12 might be the speaker I will try in my Blues Junior. It gets good reviews and it approximates the Celestion Greenback at almost half the cost so I think it might be more appropriate budget-wise to use in an amp like the Blues Junior. And if I decide I don't like it I can still use it in my 2x12 cab with my 1964 Bassman.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 12:18:24 AM EDT
[#12]
So I have a nice Avatar 2x12 cab with two Celestion Vintage 30s and I plugged my Blues Junior into it just to see what would happen and I was very surprised with the results. The BJR sounds incredible through the V30s, the overdrive is smoother and the overall tone is less compressed but has more sustain. I wonder how much the closed-back 2x12 cabinet (vs. 1x12 open-back combo) contributed to the difference in sound as well. I wanted to just put one of the V30s from my 2x12 in the BJr but the impedance isn't the same.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 7:27:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Closed back cabs tend to have a bigger and tighter bass response, and slightly smoother/subdued mids. Personally, I prefer closed back cabs.
One quick and easy way to compare would be to simply remove the back and carefully lay it down so you don't yank the wires, and compare the differences in the tone. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#14]
I may just take one of the Vintage 30s out of my 2x12 and put it in th Blues Junior and play it like that for a couple days to take th cabinet out of the equation. The 100% impedance mismatch shouldn't hurt it over a short period of time.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 12:05:16 PM EDT
[#15]
It shouldn't hurt anything. The Greenback I had in my Blues Jr is 16 ohms and it was in there for about a year. It didn't hurt anything. Now, if you want the other way and put a lower impedance speaker in there, that would cause problems.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 12:49:45 PM EDT
[#16]
I have modded my BJr and done a few for friends that want theirs done after they heard mine. Similar to the BillM mods, but I also change the OT and add a 4/8 ohm selector switch. I have been using the Warehouse Guitar Speakers Celestion lead 80 clone speaker in BJrs and it is awesome in there, and reasonably cheap. Check one out.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 9:18:17 PM EDT
[#17]
My Blues Junior is now a guinea pig. I wanted to try a different speaker but I ended up finding a used Greenback locally and the price was too good to pass up so it's in there now.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 7:36:57 PM EDT
[#18]
How do you like it so far?
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Posted: 3/27/2015 1:37:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you like it so far? I haven't had a lot of time to play lately and the only time I played after installing the Greenback I turned it up to 12 and went straight to the overdrive tones, so I can't pass judgment yet on the clean tones. My first impression is that the drive tone is more compressed and smooth with attenuated highs compared to the factory speaker. In general I like the overdrive tone better than the factory speaker but the difference is not as dramatic as I thought it would be. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 5:10:25 PM EDT
[#20]
I've been reading on other boards about the Greenbacks, and Celestions in general, and the purse-swinging in the UK-made vs. Chinese-made debates is hilarious.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 7:39:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been reading on other boards about the Greenbacks, and Celestions in general, and the purse-swinging in the UK-made vs. Chinese-made debates is hilarious. For example, my Mesa Recto 4x12 has old school British V30s in it and they have GOBS of mids, but the Chinese V30s that came in my Avatar Vintage 4x12 don't have nearly as many mids and are more evenly ballanced. Both sound good, IMHO, but they're different. As far as the Chinese vs Brit Greenback debate goes, I've only heard the Chinese ones in person. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:02:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is hilarious at times, but in some cases there is a difference. There isn't much, if any, difference between Brit & Chinese G12T-75s & G12K-100s, which is good because I recently discovered that I really like the 100s. But when it comes to Vintage 30s and similar speakers, there is a differnece. For example, my Mesa Recto 4x12 has old school British V30s in it and they have GOBS of mids, but the Chinese V30s that came in my Avatar Vintage 4x12 don't have nearly as many mids and are more evenly ballanced. Both sound good, IMHO, but they're different. As far as the Chinese vs Brit Greenback debate goes, I've only heard the Chinese ones in person. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been reading on other boards about the Greenbacks, and Celestions in general, and the purse-swinging in the UK-made vs. Chinese-made debates is hilarious. For example, my Mesa Recto 4x12 has old school British V30s in it and they have GOBS of mids, but the Chinese V30s that came in my Avatar Vintage 4x12 don't have nearly as many mids and are more evenly ballanced. Both sound good, IMHO, but they're different. As far as the Chinese vs Brit Greenback debate goes, I've only heard the Chinese ones in person. The G12M I picked up is Chinese. Not that I can tell though, it sounds great. I also have an Avatar 2x12 loaded with Vintage 30s, I'm not sure if they're English or Chinese though. I've had the cab over 10 years. Those speakers sound great too though, they're well broken-in. I'm not going to partake in the UK-made vs. Chinese Celestion debate as I've heard enough good things about the Chinese ones and mine sounds great to my ears. |
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Posted: 4/14/2015 2:23:46 AM EDT
[#23]
So I just converted my Blues Junior to octal sockets and stuck a pair of NOS Sylvania 6V6GTs in there, and while I was at it I put almost-NOS Sylvania 12AX7s in the preamp. I also swapped out the Celestion Greenback for an Eminence Cannabis Rex (no reason for the speaker change, just experimenting). My first impressions are that it has a more "Fendery" personality, the 6V6 conversion got rid the the aggressive roar of the EL-84s which I don't like in a Fender combo. The midrange is definitely heavier though, I'm running the middle control all the way down now. Next will be an output transformer upgrade.
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Posted: 4/14/2015 5:42:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Awesome!
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Posted: 4/17/2015 7:39:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Next item on the agenda: since the input jack is starting to get all scratchy sounding, I'm going to replace it with a chassis-mounted Switchcraft jack. I have to pull out the circuit board again.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:07:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next item on the agenda: since the input jack is starting to get all scratchy sounding, I'm going to replace it with a chassis-mounted Switchcraft jack. I have to pull out the circuit board again. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:24:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might as well do the tone stack mod while you're in there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Next item on the agenda: since the input jack is starting to get all scratchy sounding, I'm going to replace it with a chassis-mounted Switchcraft jack. I have to pull out the circuit board again. I'm planning on it but I don't have the caps on hand yet. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 12:51:41 AM EDT
[#28]
For a hobby and a slightly advanced beginner, is the stock blues jr a good amp? I have a American special strat, and just want a good blues or Mayer type sound.
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:55:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For a hobby and a slightly advanced beginner, is the stock blues jr a good amp? I have a American special strat, and just want a good blues or Mayer type sound. The Blues Junior is a great amp, even in stock form, and you'll likely enjoy it even as you advance in your playing. I mostly play blues and it's a great amp for that. The American Special Strat has Texas Special pickups if I'm not mistaken.... I have Texas Specials in one of my Strats and they sound KILLER for that fiery blues tone through the Blues Junior. Well, actually through any amp almost. There's a lot of smokey blues tone in those pickups. ETA: As for the John Mayer tone, I'm not sure the Blues Junior would be the best amp to get you there, as the Blues Juniors' tone is not as mid-scooped as the Blackface-era Fenders and JM uses Two-Rock amps IIRC, some of which are copies of Dumble amps which are in turn based on Fenders. But the BJR is still a great amp, simple with real tube tone, you can't go wrong with it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 6:39:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Blues Junior is a great amp, even in stock form, and you'll likely enjoy it even as you advance in your playing. I mostly play blues and it's a great amp for that. The American Special Strat has Texas Special pickups if I'm not mistaken.... I have Texas Specials in one of my Strats and they sound KILLER for that fiery blues tone through the Blues Junior. Well, actually through any amp almost. There's a lot of smokey blues tone in those pickups. ETA: As for the John Mayer tone, I'm not sure the Blues Junior would be the best amp to get you there, as the Blues Juniors' tone is not as mid-scooped as the Blackface-era Fenders and JM uses Two-Rock amps IIRC, some of which are copies of Dumble amps which are in turn based on Fenders. But the BJR is still a great amp, simple with real tube tone, you can't go wrong with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For a hobby and a slightly advanced beginner, is the stock blues jr a good amp? I have a American special strat, and just want a good blues or Mayer type sound. The Blues Junior is a great amp, even in stock form, and you'll likely enjoy it even as you advance in your playing. I mostly play blues and it's a great amp for that. The American Special Strat has Texas Special pickups if I'm not mistaken.... I have Texas Specials in one of my Strats and they sound KILLER for that fiery blues tone through the Blues Junior. Well, actually through any amp almost. There's a lot of smokey blues tone in those pickups. ETA: As for the John Mayer tone, I'm not sure the Blues Junior would be the best amp to get you there, as the Blues Juniors' tone is not as mid-scooped as the Blackface-era Fenders and JM uses Two-Rock amps IIRC, some of which are copies of Dumble amps which are in turn based on Fenders. But the BJR is still a great amp, simple with real tube tone, you can't go wrong with it. Thanks for the info. Mine does have the Texas specials. After listening to the standard and special, I think I like the American special better. I guess it's just closer to,the sound Im looking for. I have someone with a few months old 99% new American standard for sale, asking $800 with the case. Should I have jumped on that one instead? Wouldn't it hold value better? Most of the reviews I read people love the new fat 50s pickups, but Will it be able to get as good of a bluesy sound as the Texas specials? |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 8:40:26 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the info. Mine does have the Texas specials. After listening to the standard and special, I think I like the American special better. I guess it's just closer to,the sound Im looking for. I have someone with a few months old 99% new American standard for sale, asking $800 with the case. Should I have jumped on that one instead? Wouldn't it hold value better? Most of the reviews I read people love the new fat 50s pickups, but Will it be able to get as good of a bluesy sound as the Texas specials? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For a hobby and a slightly advanced beginner, is the stock blues jr a good amp? I have a American special strat, and just want a good blues or Mayer type sound. The Blues Junior is a great amp, even in stock form, and you'll likely enjoy it even as you advance in your playing. I mostly play blues and it's a great amp for that. The American Special Strat has Texas Special pickups if I'm not mistaken.... I have Texas Specials in one of my Strats and they sound KILLER for that fiery blues tone through the Blues Junior. Well, actually through any amp almost. There's a lot of smokey blues tone in those pickups. ETA: As for the John Mayer tone, I'm not sure the Blues Junior would be the best amp to get you there, as the Blues Juniors' tone is not as mid-scooped as the Blackface-era Fenders and JM uses Two-Rock amps IIRC, some of which are copies of Dumble amps which are in turn based on Fenders. But the BJR is still a great amp, simple with real tube tone, you can't go wrong with it. Thanks for the info. Mine does have the Texas specials. After listening to the standard and special, I think I like the American special better. I guess it's just closer to,the sound Im looking for. I have someone with a few months old 99% new American standard for sale, asking $800 with the case. Should I have jumped on that one instead? Wouldn't it hold value better? Most of the reviews I read people love the new fat 50s pickups, but Will it be able to get as good of a bluesy sound as the Texas specials? It will get you a different sound. I have a Mexican Strat that I plan on putting Fat 50s in. They are excellent pickups as well. Great for blues but with a cleaner, more vintagey sound than Texas Specials, but wound hotter than vintage spec, so kinda in-between. Like I said, great pickups.By he Texas Specials are probably better for blues while the Fat 50s are better all-around pickups. Can't go wrong with either set. $800 is a decent price for a used American Standard. The American Standards will probably always hold a little more value than the American Specials, but that only matter if you're planning on reselling later. What matters more is the condition of the guitar when you try to sell it. It's a buyer's market right now anyways. |
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