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Posted: 1/18/2015 7:36:17 PM EDT
I've been out of the music scene for quite some time (35-40 years..really).
But I was in several bands, and did a bunch of studio & live recording "Back in the day". So I was "Volunteered" to "Help" a local group get some new (or used) equipment to sound a little better. As I said, When I was last "In studio" 99% of what is out there now (Effects wise)...wasn't . I have not kept up with what is available, what is good, and what to avoid. So, I am asking for a little "Hive mind" help. I'm looking for a "Live/on the fly/" vocal effects box (or boxes) with the following, that are reasonably affordable (IE: $700 or under, new/used) + Bang for the buck. Delay Reverb Chorus Flange (?) ETC. I'd also like to offer them Tone correction (auto tuning), as they could use some help in that department. Maybe with and without, or a separate box? Any of you guys that can point me in the right direction(s)? Thanks everyone! Tall Shadow 
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Posted: 1/18/2015 7:44:09 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 1/19/2015 1:07:42 AM EDT
[#2]
I like the TC Helicon Play/Voicelive stuff, but I'm so amateur my dog doesn't even sit to listen to me make music.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 12:01:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Whatever you choose, please encourage the band to learn the effects unit through and through.
Singers who bring their own vocal effects present special challenges to live sound engineers. If the vocals are too saturated with effects it will absolutely kill GBF (gain before feedback), especially in the monitors. Ideally you'd send two lines to the mixing board(s), a wet and a dry. It would allow the sound guy to have some control over a variety of different factors. Sometimes singers only want to send an effects-drenched signal. Then they want it loud, then we have issues with feedback. Being able to feed some dry signal into the monitors in particular would mitigate this. I wish I could say that most singers use their effects boxes flawlessly, but it isn't so. You don't want this band dialing things in wrong and creating noise and/or frequency response issues for their sound guys. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 11:33:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the information guys!
Like I said it's been a number of years. I don't think this group will be too much trouble for their sound guys, it's a fairly small group, almost like a church setting.... I'm sure I will be drug into this... at some point, so I will help keep a lid on things sound wise. Wish me luck! Tall Shadow Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:30:44 PM EDT
[#5]
That TC Helicon is good kit a friend of mine uses one. Our bassist/singer uses the Boss VE-20, it's a little cheaper than the TC but sounds pretty good.
Boss VE-20 |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 5:57:18 PM EDT
[#6]
I've found most vocal effects don't work well unless they are programmed intelligently. The presets are meant for low volume where highs and lows need to be pushed more to be heard. The end result is often a tinny or boomy mess.
Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:10:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've found most vocal effects don't work well unless they are programmed intelligently. The presets are meant for low volume where highs and lows need to be pushed more to be heard. The end result is often a tinny or boomy mess. Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame. You had me until the last couple of sentences. Nobody runs vocals "straight through the mains" without using some kind of preamp.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:25:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've found most vocal effects don't work well unless they are programmed intelligently. The presets are meant for low volume where highs and lows need to be pushed more to be heard. The end result is often a tinny or boomy mess. Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame. You had me until the last couple of sentences. Nobody runs vocals "straight through the mains" without using some kind of preamp. I've yet to play a venue that even has a vocal pre amp (except for one, but their sound guy was clueless) and, if they do, they're not using it unless you're a decent sized act. Everybody just tosses it straight to their mixer and sets the controls to noon. As for the one place I've played that has a vocal preamp? Here are some quotes: "We need to cut a hole in your resonance head so we can stick a mic in it to get more punch" "We don't have enough channels to run your vocals through the preamp" "Saliva is using the vocal preamp so I can't change anything on it." "I don't have any more inputs on my board so I'm going to have to mic your bass cabinet." The reality is that your average venue is usually run by an imbecile. YMMV but Oklahoma, north Texas, Kansas, Chicago, Boston... Haven't played a place that actually uses one. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:47:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've found most vocal effects don't work well unless they are programmed intelligently. The presets are meant for low volume where highs and lows need to be pushed more to be heard. The end result is often a tinny or boomy mess. Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame. You had me until the last couple of sentences. Nobody runs vocals "straight through the mains" without using some kind of preamp. I've yet to play a venue that even has a vocal pre amp (except for one, but their sound guy was clueless) and, if they do, they're not using it unless you're a decent sized act. Everybody just tosses it straight to their mixer and sets the controls to noon. As for the one place I've played that has a vocal preamp? Here are some quotes: "We need to cut a hole in your resonance head so we can stick a mic in it to get more punch" "We don't have enough channels to run your vocals through the preamp" "Saliva is using the vocal preamp so I can't change anything on it." "I don't have any more inputs on my board so I'm going to have to mic your bass cabinet." The reality is that your average venue is usually run by an imbecile. YMMV but Oklahoma, north Texas, Kansas, Chicago, Boston... Haven't played a place that actually uses one. While I certainly agree with you that there are a lot of imbecilic sound guys out there, the vocal preamps you seek are always right there in the mixer. If you have a 24 channel board, you have 24 potential vocal preamps; outboard ones are not required. And while I don't want to steer this thread away from the subject of vocals (maybe the damage has already been done ), there is nothing wrong with micing a bass cabinet in a live situation. Sometimes it is actually the preferred technique. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 3:57:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've found most vocal effects don't work well unless they are programmed intelligently. The presets are meant for low volume where highs and lows need to be pushed more to be heard. The end result is often a tinny or boomy mess. Very literally, every venue will have settings that need to be different. Think of it like this. Most venues don't have dedicated vocal preamps and will run vocals straight through the mains without adjusting any equipment at all. It's a shame. You had me until the last couple of sentences. Nobody runs vocals "straight through the mains" without using some kind of preamp. I've yet to play a venue that even has a vocal pre amp (except for one, but their sound guy was clueless) and, if they do, they're not using it unless you're a decent sized act. Everybody just tosses it straight to their mixer and sets the controls to noon. As for the one place I've played that has a vocal preamp? Here are some quotes: "We need to cut a hole in your resonance head so we can stick a mic in it to get more punch" "We don't have enough channels to run your vocals through the preamp" "Saliva is using the vocal preamp so I can't change anything on it." "I don't have any more inputs on my board so I'm going to have to mic your bass cabinet." The reality is that your average venue is usually run by an imbecile. YMMV but Oklahoma, north Texas, Kansas, Chicago, Boston... Haven't played a place that actually uses one. While I certainly agree with you that there are a lot of imbecilic sound guys out there, the vocal preamps you seek are always right there in the mixer. If you have a 24 channel board, you have 24 potential vocal preamps; outboard ones are not required. And while I don't want to steer this thread away from the subject of vocals (maybe the damage has already been done ), there is nothing wrong with micing a bass cabinet in a live situation. Sometimes it is actually the preferred technique.My point is that they are consistently set at noon and never touched. It's not acting as a preamp in that case. And no, my amp is built for going direct in. If I have two cabinets, and you're micing my 18 inch but you're not micing my 4x12 when I'm popping and slapping, you're doing it wrong. ETA: But my overall point for my post is that sound guys mostly don't get what's going on with vocals and throwing effects on the mix can make it very, very bad. You have to set it up for the place you're playing and will probably need to adjust it as you perform. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:03:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: While I certainly agree with you that there are a lot of imbecilic sound guys out there, the vocal preamps you seek are always right there in the mixer. If you have a 24 channel board, you have 24 potential vocal preamps; outboard ones are not required. And while I don't want to steer this thread away from the subject of vocals (maybe the damage has already been done ), there is nothing wrong with micing a bass cabinet in a live situation. Sometimes it is actually the preferred technique.My point is that they are consistently set at noon and never touched. It's not acting as a preamp in that case. And no, my amp is built for going direct in. If I have two cabinets, and you're micing my 18 inch but you're not micing my 4x12 when I'm popping and slapping, you're doing it wrong. ETA: But my overall point for my post is that sound guys mostly don't get what's going on with vocals and throwing effects on the mix can make it very, very bad. You have to set it up for the place you're playing and will probably need to adjust it as you perform. There is no reason to touch the preamp gain control if the vocal signal is within a practical range. If the preamp is set a noon, and providing the sound engineer with a usable signal all night, there is no reason for him to touch it. It is acting as a preamp should, i.e. boosting the incoming signal to a usable level. Any tweaks beyond that can be made with the faders or other downstream controls. Preamps are simple tools that should not be elevated to mythic proportions. Sure, there is a small faction of guys who mix using the preamp pots, but a majority of them start by setting their input gains to workable levels and then leaving them alone. This is perfectly acceptable. Unless someone sings extraordinarily loud or extraordinarily soft, or brings in an oddball microphone, there is no point in moving the input gain lower or higher than its usual spot. You set it quickly and then move to your faders. As for your bass rig, a competent and thorough sound engineer will use multiple channels. He will take a direct line, put a D6 on your 18" speaker, an e609 on your 12", and mix accordingly. I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with sound guys who don't know how to handle bass cabinets or vocal effects, but it shouldn't cloud your judgement here in this thread. |
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