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Posted: 1/16/2009 10:52:52 PM EDT
What do you guys think about these?



I will be getting a kit tomorrow, for free. My initial plans are to build it up properly. My hope is for it to be airworthy, buy for DISPLAY only. I don't have a pilot license and am too busy with school now to get one, PLUS I don't want to kill myself.

A James Bond type.

Mine will be a propeller/turboprop version.
Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:11:04 PM EDT
[#1]
They have had issues with the BD5J model through out the years..
I think there may only be two flying planes (jet turbine)with airworthy certificates. in use now.  The turbine's were labor intensive as hell and a had a very short flight time.
I can't say for certain about any prop typed BD5's ..  Some of the BD5's had some accidents with the aircraft that resulted in some fatalities..
I would recomend you seek out those who have flown and have a lot of stick time with this plane and those who have built the plane and now exactly what they are doing..
 If anything it should give you alot of insight on aircraft design and the ability to learn
how to fly  (just dont try to learn in it!)I think it would be awsome to have one!
Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:33:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
They have had issues with the BD5J model through out the years..
I think there may only be two flying planes (jet turbine)with airworthy certificates. in use now.  The turbine's were labor intensive as hell and a had a very short flight time.
I can't say for certain about any prop typed BD5's ..  Some of the BD5's had some accidents with the aircraft that resulted in some fatalities..
I would recomend you seek out those who have flown and have a lot of stick time with this plane and those who have built the plane and now exactly what they are doing..
 If anything it should give you alot of insight on aircraft design and the ability to learn
how to fly  (just dont try to learn in it!)I think it would be awsome to have one!


Like the owner of the bd-5 that was used in James Bond's movie said..."I always wear a parachute, I'm crazy, not stupid, there is a difference."


I dont  have a death sentence, and I already suffered a concussion from other events...NOT eager to repeat it either.

Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:36:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?

Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:40:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What do you guys think about these?



I will be getting a kit tomorrow, for free. My initial plans are to build it up properly. My hope is for it to be airworthy, buy for DISPLAY only. I don't have a pilot license and am too busy with school now to get one, PLUS I don't want to kill myself.

A James Bond type.

Mine will be a propeller/turboprop version.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W8ij9XUZh1s/RijFSJGbDXI/AAAAAAAAOEs/OVLFKEdkLpo/bede+bd-5b+++++++++++1199789.jpg


1) There is no turboprop... The prop version is a recip, the jet is a turbojet...

2) There are kits in many stages of completion on E-bay, usually for fairly low prices... So you may be able to scrounge up already completed parts & 'one-plus-one = one' your bird together...

3) If you're going to build one up, do it RIGHT and build it airworthy... Even if YOU don't fly it, don't build it so that NO ONE ever can...

4) Yes, it has a rep for killing low-time pilots.... It is NOT a learner bird...
Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:42:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?



No, it's countersunk rivets.... If you want it, really, really 'smooth titties' (thank you Howard Hughes movie) you use a microshaver on the rivets, but ordinary countersinking is usually good enough for civilian birds....

If you mean the actual metal-to-metal seams, that's (a) very precise metal-cutting, and (b) paint...

I'm an airframe mechanic for the Army...

The BD5 has a good deal of fairly complex sheet metal work involved, you will need a good amount of sheet metal tools (floor shears, floor brake, etc)

Link Posted: 1/16/2009 11:51:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the rely Dave_A.

On a side note, here is another picture I found online...notice anything interesting...






Link Posted: 1/17/2009 12:20:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Actually there is a turboprop...
http://www.bd-micro.com/N50TX.HTM

That's not to say it's any more practical.

I "tried" to build a donated kit while in high school. Even if you are making an unairworthy shell of an airplane it's still a big project. You'll have to be a decent sheet metal worker on some areas. It's a kit from the 1970's. Today's version would likely have pre-fabbed parts but the old BD-5 kit was relatively raw.
Keep us updated...!



Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you guys think about these?



I will be getting a kit tomorrow, for free. My initial plans are to build it up properly. My hope is for it to be airworthy, buy for DISPLAY only. I don't have a pilot license and am too busy with school now to get one, PLUS I don't want to kill myself.

A James Bond type.

Mine will be a propeller/turboprop version.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W8ij9XUZh1s/RijFSJGbDXI/AAAAAAAAOEs/OVLFKEdkLpo/bede+bd-5b+++++++++++1199789.jpg


1) There is no turboprop... The prop version is a recip, the jet is a turbojet...

2) There are kits in many stages of completion on E-bay, usually for fairly low prices... So you may be able to scrounge up already completed parts & 'one-plus-one = one' your bird together...

3) If you're going to build one up, do it RIGHT and build it airworthy... Even if YOU don't fly it, don't build it so that NO ONE ever can...

4) Yes, it has a rep for killing low-time pilots.... It is NOT a learner bird...


Link Posted: 1/17/2009 12:27:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Thanks for the rely Dave_A.

On a side note, here is another picture I found online...notice anything interesting...



http://www.hallert.net/images/bd5-crash.JPG


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W8ij9XUZh1s/RijFSJGbDXI/AAAAAAAAOEs/OVLFKEdkLpo/bede+bd-5b+++++++++++1199789.jpg


Yeah, the wheels are up, and he's in the grass...

Looks like he ran off the runway, collapsed his gear, and popped a fuel line or fuel tank...

No apparent prop-strike, and the aircraft is pretty damn in-tact for anything else to have happened to it...

Fire would have to have started by friction or electricity, as the engine isn't in the part that's burning...


Link Posted: 1/17/2009 8:05:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Screw that peice of junk. Go straight to the BD-10. You can do it! Bede said so. WJ
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 8:10:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Guy that I worked with many years ago had so many forced landings with the litle jet that we lost count. He wasn't smart enough to realize it was trying to tell him something. The last one killed him. He is still dead. That is all.
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 8:16:15 AM EDT
[#11]
The guy right next to me built a BD-5 that is currently in the Smithsonian. He knows a bit about the plane. If you ever pick up the book, Cockpits, you can see his BD-5. He tuns a company called Commercial Aviation at Kent State University(1G3). I believe there's a company that produces retrofit kits to make them safer by lengthening the fuse and wings.
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 9:57:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 11:01:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Just so we are clear...I DONT plan to fly it ever...But If nothing else...I will have a RETRO plane to go with my RETRO AR15s []

maybe something like this?
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 11:06:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the rely Dave_A.

On a side note, here is another picture I found online...notice anything interesting...



http://www.hallert.net/images/bd5-crash.JPG


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W8ij9XUZh1s/RijFSJGbDXI/AAAAAAAAOEs/OVLFKEdkLpo/bede+bd-5b+++++++++++1199789.jpg


Yeah, the wheels are up, and he's in the grass...

Looks like he ran off the runway, collapsed his gear, and popped a fuel line or fuel tank...

No apparent prop-strike, and the aircraft is pretty damn in-tact for anything else to have happened to it...

Fire would have to have started by friction or electricity, as the engine isn't in the part that's burning...




I was just gonna say its is the same airplane...

From reading about this incident The engine lost power right after takeoff, and the guy landed a little after the runway in the grass
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 11:51:23 AM EDT
[#15]
One arrived at the airport a couple years ago to have final assembly in a T hangar. The guy spent about 20 years on the project. It had a turbocharged Honda automotive engine. After a lot of low and high speed taxi testing, it was time for a flight test. It went off the end of a smooth 3500 foot runway after a couple small hops when the pilot tried to rotate. Tore the landing gear out and punctured the fuel tanks. Thankfully, no injuries or fire. The pieces were trucked away and I don't know their present location.
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 12:31:22 PM EDT
[#16]

Link Posted: 1/17/2009 3:05:00 PM EDT
[#17]
You know, whether it is pratical or not, I have always liked these little birds.  I probably couldn't ever get away with owning one.  The wife is a pilot too, and she'd either never forgive me for buying a single seater, or she'd be out flyin it herself all the time.

For what it's worth, BD Micro Technologies makes three versions of the kit.  The BD-5B, the 5-J and the 5T.  The B is the recip, the J is the jet, and the T being the turbo prop.

The turbo prop uses an engine that BD-Micro calls a Quantum H-95.  It produces 95 shp, and is based on Solar T-62 components.

I've always thought that the turboprop would be a good time.  It has basically the same range as the B, though on 50 percent more fuel.  And while it is a good bit slower than the jet, it doesn't have the range issues the jet has, while still being 40 mph faster than the recip.

From what I've seen about this company though, each of the three kits have been tweaked somewhere between a little and a lot depending on which version you choose.  Depending on what version you have acquired (may have been before micro was building them also), it may be a hassle to use a different type of motor than what it was designed for.  However, despite my interest in the type, I really don't know much more about them than you can read on http://www.bd-micro.com.  Maybe it wouldn't be too big of a deal to make any changes yourself.

Good luck with the project either way.  I'd love to see how it comes along.  If you do wind up building it to an airworthy condition and would like to see it fly.... I might know somebody who would love to fly one some time  

Link Posted: 1/17/2009 3:52:13 PM EDT
[#18]
1972 plans

Link Posted: 1/17/2009 7:52:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Screw that peice of junk. Go straight to the BD-10. You can do it! Bede said so. WJ


Hell the BD10J's even had some problem's  (wing flutter being the biggest problem) It killed one of the program  test pilot's..  James Bede I think sold the whole program and rights to a company named Phoenix aircraft if I remember right, that completely redesigned the thing and renamed it the Viper jet  (Viperjet.com) where you can get it with Low time T58 engine for jet use or have the T58 converted to a shaft driven pusher prop.   I have photo's of one of the original BD10J in blue angels trim.....  somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 5:40:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 10:50:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?



dimpled rivet holes and over lapped skins.  if you are asking these questions i suggest you start with an aircraft metalworking class before the bd5.  you have a lot of skills to learn. it is best not to learn them on your aircraft components but side projects.  air tools and a pnuematic rivet squeezer are your friends. deburr all edges and holes before you drive your rivets. and, there are never enough clecos.  also think zinc chromate.
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 10:59:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?



No, it's countersunk rivets.... If you want it, really, really 'smooth titties' (thank you Howard Hughes movie) you use a microshaver on the rivets, but ordinary countersinking is usually good enough for civilian birds....

If you mean the actual metal-to-metal seams, that's (a) very precise metal-cutting, and (b) paint...

I'm an airframe mechanic for the Army...

The BD5 has a good deal of fairly complex sheet metal work involved, you will need a good amount of sheet metal tools (floor shears, floor brake, etc)



i for flush rivets i dimpled the skins on my rv-8. countersinking removes some of the skin strength.  also my seams were lapped. not fit edge to edge.  i do not know what this design calls for.

Link Posted: 1/18/2009 2:22:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?



No, it's countersunk rivets.... If you want it, really, really 'smooth titties' (thank you Howard Hughes movie) you use a microshaver on the rivets, but ordinary countersinking is usually good enough for civilian birds....

If you mean the actual metal-to-metal seams, that's (a) very precise metal-cutting, and (b) paint...

I'm an airframe mechanic for the Army...

The BD5 has a good deal of fairly complex sheet metal work involved, you will need a good amount of sheet metal tools (floor shears, floor brake, etc)



i for flush rivets i dimpled the skins on my rv-8. countersinking removes some of the skin strength.  also my seams were lapped. not fit edge to edge.  i do not know what this design calls for.



That's another way to do it (dimpling), and preferrable on thinner metal... Still use the CS rivets, of course....

And yes, the skin overlaps - but depending on how you do the overlap, the above still applies - cut it wrong, and you will have bad seams....

+1 on the Zinc Chromate, or better yet, epoxy primer...
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 2:29:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Zinc Chromate. The green stuff inside the cockpit console...

Now what is used between the panels along the rivet lines?...epoxy so other goop (waterproof, seal, and what not.)
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 5:30:37 PM EDT
[#25]
i only sealed the fuel tanks
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 5:31:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, stupid question. but how do they get the "finish" to look so smooth over where the panels are riveted together?

is it the paint?



No, it's countersunk rivets.... If you want it, really, really 'smooth titties' (thank you Howard Hughes movie) you use a microshaver on the rivets, but ordinary countersinking is usually good enough for civilian birds....

If you mean the actual metal-to-metal seams, that's (a) very precise metal-cutting, and (b) paint...

I'm an airframe mechanic for the Army...

The BD5 has a good deal of fairly complex sheet metal work involved, you will need a good amount of sheet metal tools (floor shears, floor brake, etc)



i for flush rivets i dimpled the skins on my rv-8. countersinking removes some of the skin strength.  also my seams were lapped. not fit edge to edge.  i do not know what this design calls for.




+1 for dimpling. i live my DRDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 5:38:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 6:45:55 PM EDT
[#28]
whatever was used to put the fuselage together is a bit rubbery. So just to spray some primer between the layers before they are riveted, should be enough?

Also, looking at this fuselage, I believe it has the 5.2" extension, but I also think it is also Wider than standard...the nose does not come to a point, but rather there is a 3"or so straight section...look at the nose next to the rod sticking out the nose.


Shoot, this guy has THREE turbines in this thing...



Link Posted: 1/18/2009 7:37:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
whatever was used to put the fuselage together is a bit rubbery. So just to spray some primer between the layers before they are riveted, should be enough?

Also, looking at this fuselage, I believe it has the 5.2" extension, but I also think it is also Wider than standard...the nose does not come to a point, but rather there is a 3"or so straight section...look at the nose next to the rod sticking out the nose.


Shoot, this guy has THREE turbines in this thing...
http://www.gas-turbines.com/jfs100/bd5_bill.jpg
http://www.gas-turbines.com/jfs100/bd5_rear.jpg

Ahh, the possibilities are endless...
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/acabiongtbo.jpg


You beat me to it! I was going to recomend one hellova motorcycle project!  I have a 2003 GSXR750 motor that would go perfectly in that airframe..
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 2:17:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Zinc Chromate. The green stuff inside the cockpit console...

Now what is used between the panels along the rivet lines?...epoxy so other goop (waterproof, seal, and what not.)


Zinc Chromate or Epoxy Primer (both look the same when done, both come in a spray-can.... The Army tends to be using EP now, although we usually had some ZC cans in our cabinets)....

In areas where you need extra sealant, or to affix plexi/lexan to metal, use Pro-Seal (2 part sealant, 1 part is grey, one is black, it stinks like hell & sticks to EVERYTHING)....

At least that's what we do with our helos....
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 3:49:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Just so we are clear...I DONT plan to fly it ever...But If nothing else...I will have a RETRO plane to go with my RETRO AR15s []



You could mount it on hydraulic actuators with valves operated by the control stick.

Voila!  Flight sim!
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 8:29:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Zinc Chromate. The green stuff inside the cockpit console...

Now what is used between the panels along the rivet lines?...epoxy so other goop (waterproof, seal, and what not.)


Zinc Chromate or Epoxy Primer (both look the same when done, both come in a spray-can.... The Army tends to be using EP now, although we usually had some ZC cans in our cabinets)....

In areas where you need extra sealant, or to affix plexi/lexan to metal, use Pro-Seal (2 part sealant, 1 part is grey, one is black, it stinks like hell & sticks to EVERYTHING)....

At least that's what we do with our helos....


You don't do tricks on pilots with that shit do you? I swear some guy use to use that stuff to glue shit tight on us. We never caught him but you guys are sneeky. WJ
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 9:06:13 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 12:06:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Zinc Chromate. The green stuff inside the cockpit console...

Now what is used between the panels along the rivet lines?...epoxy so other goop (waterproof, seal, and what not.)


Zinc Chromate or Epoxy Primer (both look the same when done, both come in a spray-can.... The Army tends to be using EP now, although we usually had some ZC cans in our cabinets)....

In areas where you need extra sealant, or to affix plexi/lexan to metal, use Pro-Seal (2 part sealant, 1 part is grey, one is black, it stinks like hell & sticks to EVERYTHING)....

At least that's what we do with our helos....


You don't do tricks on pilots with that shit do you? I swear some guy use to use that stuff to glue shit tight on us. We never caught him but you guys are sneeky. WJ


Proseal takes too long to cure for that.... The thing is, if you get it on your clothes (it's a greyish color when mixed) it's NEVER coming out - cured or not...

Now, in Korea, we *did* have a 1-pint bottle of CA (Super Glue) at our disposal... MUCH better for pranks...
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 3:13:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Zinc Chromate. The green stuff inside the cockpit console...

Now what is used between the panels along the rivet lines?...epoxy so other goop (waterproof, seal, and what not.)


Zinc Chromate or Epoxy Primer (both look the same when done, both come in a spray-can.... The Army tends to be using EP now, although we usually had some ZC cans in our cabinets)....

In areas where you need extra sealant, or to affix plexi/lexan to metal, use Pro-Seal (2 part sealant, 1 part is grey, one is black, it stinks like hell & sticks to EVERYTHING)....

At least that's what we do with our helos....


You don't do tricks on pilots with that shit do you? I swear some guy use to use that stuff to glue shit tight on us. We never caught him but you guys are sneeky. WJ


Proseal takes too long to cure for that.... The thing is, if you get it on your clothes (it's a greyish color when mixed) it's NEVER coming out - cured or not...

Now, in Korea, we *did* have a 1-pint bottle of CA (Super Glue) at our disposal... MUCH better for pranks...


Or when some one got a cut or open gash on them selves...right?...that is what they are using now, in emergencies.

Link Posted: 1/19/2009 7:48:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Great history there. It seems that whatever JB touches is commercially "stained"...

Quoted:
Put a wind screen on the hull, little short wing stubs, and a dead ultralight prop on a faked up prop shaft, then put it in the yard for kids to play in.  Paint with gloss latex applied with a foam roller, don't waste good paint on that POS.


Here's a pretty good Jim Bede story.

In the early 80's a rigid wing ultralight named the NAC Dream showed up at Oshkosh.  This little airplane was virtually the first conventionally configured Part 103 vehicle that looked like a real airplane, not a lawn chair.  The thing was a hit.

Then word spread around that Bede was associated with the project.  Two things happened, the airplane was an instant commercial failure, and lots of people that were still pissed off about losing their deposits for BD-5's were hunting for Bede with intent to give him a thumping.  Thousands of people lost deposits for kits and production versions, roughly 12000.

Jim Bede is a hell of a speaker, dreamer, and not a bad airplane configurator.  But the trail of shoddy business following him is long, and virtually unbroken.  While he was in the St. Louis region working on the BD-10 and a couple of other projects I went to his shop a few times and was stunned about some details I saw on the jet.  The tail problems were predicted, that was a no brainer.  The wing skin assembly was a real surprise; aluminum honeycomb sandwich tooling board, while not necessary a problem in itself, the connection at the edges of the skins is unacceptable.  Only the outermoldline skin was fastened, the inner skin was terminated without attachment.  This defeats the advantage of honeycomb construction and long term fatigue life is severly compromised whether or not the static strength is sufficient.

One of the guys I worked with crashed either the -14 or -12, I don't recall, but he didn't get hurt.




Link Posted: 1/20/2009 12:18:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Strange...I just went on wikipedia and searched for Jim Bede.  I was shopping for hangars about a year and a half ago. I came across several at 1G5 and had a conversation with him, huh.... I still remember the week prior, one of the guys at my airport told me that he remembered lynch mobs for the guy at Oshkish
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