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Posted: 5/27/2017 10:24:49 PM EDT
This thing looks more potent than anything we have today. Shame it never caught on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK48FcwcY7Q  AH-56 Cheyenne: Turn Tail & 30mm Gun! |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 10:30:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Definitely a cool looking helicopter.
Looks like the Russian KA52. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:01:00 PM EDT
[#2]
It's the piece of hardware the A-10 was meant to kill.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the piece of hardware the A-10 was meant to kill. I cannot see a need for it when the A10 and Apache are around. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:11:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I cannot see a need for it when the A10 and Apache are around. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:23:09 PM EDT
[#5]
I saw one of the prototypes at Ft Rutger's museum. Damn thing was big, the cockpit had grreat visibility, and the pusher prop was massive.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:25:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This predates the Apache. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:36:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This predates the Apache. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:05:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I cannot see a need for it when the A10 and Apache are around. 
Sikorsky-Boeing concept for an attack FVL-Medium aircraft. When your helo can do 200kts+, the A-10 is a bit superfluous. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 6:38:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Never send an helo to do an airplane's job.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 6:40:27 AM EDT
[#10]
The Cheyenne had a rigid rotor and afcs gyros in the rotor head(i.e. In the rotating reference plane). Highly unusual, I don't know of a helicopter ever fielded with gyros in the rotor head.
The Cheyenne and a10 are similar size(wingspan and rotor diameter), but a quick check of Wikipedia shows the a10 has 11 hard points and can carry 16k lbs of ordnance and 1300rds of gun ammo. Cheyenne had 4 I assume, maybe 5 or 6 tops, and could probably carry under1k lbs on each hard point. The a10 also easily doubles the speed of any helicopter and can cross the oceans itself. It's harder to detect and not a complete sitting duck in contested airspace. Helicopters make horrible airplanes and vice versa. You use airplanes unless you need to hover, only then do you use a helicopter. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 7:28:06 AM EDT
[#11]
When we left TX in '74 I saw one of these on a flatbed truck heading east on the interstate. Looked cool as hell.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 8:32:37 AM EDT
[#12]
J-CATCH, short for Joint Countering Attack Helicopter, was a joint US Army-US Air Force experiment in dissimilar air combat between jet fighters and attack helicopters. To the surprise of many involved in the program, the helicopters proved extremely dangerous to the fighters when they were properly employed, racking up a 5-to-1 kill ratio over the fighters when fighting at close ranges with guns. The lesson was that fixed-wing aircraft should not attack helicopters except at long range and/or high altitudes with long range missiles. This was worrying for forces based primarily on fixed-wing assets, leading to several design studies for helicopter-hunting aircraft.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 9:21:08 AM EDT
[#13]
I have a great book about the AH-56. The technical details are incredible.
Some of the coolest features are of course the rotating gunners seat and the ability to reverse the pitch of the pusher prop and maintain a nose down attitude in a hover for accurate rocket shooting. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:45:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
This thing looks more potent than anything we have today. Shame it never caught on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK48FcwcY7Q  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK48FcwcY7QIt did catch on, its called the MI-28 Hind... |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:46:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw one of the prototypes at Ft https://i0.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AH-56-Cheyenne-Airborne1.jpg |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 1:29:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Morgan321, the Chryenne was capable of flying from California to Hawaii without refuelling.
Tim_Az, I stand corrected. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 2:06:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likewise, I cannot see a need for the A-10 and the Apache when compound attack helicopters are introduced. http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/?q=60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1491932600419-fvl-gunship-3.jpg Sikorsky-Boeing concept for an attack FVL-Medium aircraft. When your helo can do 200kts+, the A-10 is a bit superfluous. A10 is a bad bitch. Tough and reliable with a giant fuck off gun. Dont see a rotor wing being as efficient or durable. VTOL has it's place but what is the roll? Attack capabilities or transport? Apache and A10 do the attack stuff damn well. Other helos and Osprey do the transport damn well. Replace the other helicopters that are aging and need to be rotated out. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 2:07:16 PM EDT
[#18]
This is one of those things where if I were a multi-billionaire, I'd gravedig it and bring it to life.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 2:07:32 PM EDT
[#19]
The Cheyenne's design exceeded the technology to sustainably implement it 45 years ago.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 2:10:47 PM EDT
[#20]
One thing I'm not really understanding are all the references to the A-10 in this thread.
The A-10 is one of my all-time favorite fixed wing aircraft, and it it were up to me, it would be updated and remain flying until 2050. But, if we ever fight a legit enemy, we would need shit that can land at FARPS and not require 7500 feet of not-bombed runway (in addition to A-10s.) |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 3:49:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Morgan321, the Chryenne was capable of flying from California to Hawaii without refuelling. I question that. It would require massive external fuel tanks which would add huge amounts of drag and kill performance. Doesnt matter, point is it's not practical even if it is possible. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 11:41:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/28/2017 11:48:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryThe A-10 can in flight refuel, so it can ferry with adequate reserves to actually divert.
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Posted: 5/29/2017 10:32:28 AM EDT
[#24]
The AH-56 was designed as a followon aircraft to the AH-1 Cobra. Meant to have more range, speed and payload that the Cobra. However; as the Soviets developed an effective and mobile missile shield that effectively denied the airspace above the battle field, American's tacticians quickly grasped that survival in the high threat environment required nap of the earth flight. That effectively killed the AH-56 and quickly lead to the development of the AH-1F/S series and eventually the AH-64.
Today we employ our Apache and Super Cobras at or above small arms effective altitudes in permissive environments but drop to NOE flight in a high threat environment. The Osprey is not currently used as an attack platform, nor is the CH-47. Both of those aircraft are essentially cargo aircraft and troop transports and usually operate in conjunction with other assets to provide protection to them during their missions. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 9:34:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I'm not really understanding are all the references to the A-10 in this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I'm not really understanding are all the references to the A-10 in this thread. In 1971, political friction increased between the Army and the Air Force over the close air support (CAS) mission.[36] The Air Force asserted that the Cheyenne would infringe on the Air Force's CAS mission in support of the Army, which had been mandated with the Key West Agreement of 1948. But the Cobra was a quickly made helicopter based on the UH-1 Iroquois, and in the late 1960s the U.S. Army was designing the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne, a much more capable attack aircraft with greater speed. These developments worried the U.S. Air Force, which saw the anti-tank helicopter overtaking its nuclear-armed tactical aircraft as the primary anti-armor force in Europe. A 1966 U.S. Air Force study of existing close air support (CAS) capabilities revealed gaps in the escort and fire suppression roles, which the Cheyenne could fill. The study concluded that the service should acquire a simple, inexpensive, dedicated CAS aircraft at least as capable as the A-1, and that it should develop doctrine, tactics, and procedures for such aircraft to accomplish the missions for which the attack helicopters were provided. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 11:55:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The A-10 can in flight refuel, so it can ferry with adequate reserves to actually divert. What I am saying is that the Cheyenne gunship was an amazing rotary wing aircraft that was far ahead of it's time. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 1:14:59 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 5/31/2017 2:08:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likewise, I cannot see a need for the A-10 and the Apache when compound attack helicopters are introduced. http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/?q=60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1491932600419-fvl-gunship-3.jpg Sikorsky-Boeing concept for an attack FVL-Medium aircraft. When your helo can do 200kts+, the A-10 is a bit superfluous. |
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Posted: 5/31/2017 2:39:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I am saying is that the Cheyenne gunship was an amazing rotary wing aircraft that was far ahead of it's time. It is well known because one was parked in front of the Army aviation museum for decades. Every army aviator from the 80s until they moved it in the mid-2000s drove past the Cheyenne nearly every day of flight school. The Army had tested faster compound helicopters before the Cheyenne. They just didn't get parked on prime real estate at Rucker for decades. |
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Posted: 5/31/2017 2:42:39 PM EDT
[#30]
the airfroce thew a fit because it had wings.
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Posted: 6/4/2017 12:10:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It did catch on, its called the MI-28 Hind... |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 7:16:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you mean the S-67 Blackhawk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It did catch on, its called the MI-28 Hind... |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:51:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing I'm not really understanding are all the references to the A-10 in this thread. In 1971, political friction increased between the Army and the Air Force over the close air support (CAS) mission.[36] The Air Force asserted that the Cheyenne would infringe on the Air Force's CAS mission in support of the Army, which had been mandated with the Key West Agreement of 1948. But the Cobra was a quickly made helicopter based on the UH-1 Iroquois, and in the late 1960s the U.S. Army was designing the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne, a much more capable attack aircraft with greater speed. These developments worried the U.S. Air Force, which saw the anti-tank helicopter overtaking its nuclear-armed tactical aircraft as the primary anti-armor force in Europe. A 1966 U.S. Air Force study of existing close air support (CAS) capabilities revealed gaps in the escort and fire suppression roles, which the Cheyenne could fill. The study concluded that the service should acquire a simple, inexpensive, dedicated CAS aircraft at least as capable as the A-1, and that it should develop doctrine, tactics, and procedures for such aircraft to accomplish the missions for which the attack helicopters were provided. Then again with MANPADs and heavy AAA of that time help doom the project. Remember the Air Force wanted to kill the A-10 project how many times since the first flight. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 10:36:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still dont see a need for that even when the Osprey exists... I think the Ospery is a necessary stepping stone to other aircraft but I believe that the concept of tilt-rotor aircraft should be continued to be developed further before we stop and say the Osprey is amazing. |
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Posted: 7/20/2017 4:03:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AH-56 was designed as a followon aircraft to the AH-1 Cobra. Meant to have more range, speed and payload that the Cobra. However; as the Soviets developed an effective and mobile missile shield that effectively denied the airspace above the battle field, American's tacticians quickly grasped that survival in the high threat environment required nap of the earth flight. That effectively killed the AH-56 and quickly lead to the development of the AH-1F/S series and eventually the AH-64. Today we employ our Apache and Super Cobras at or above small arms effective altitudes in permissive environments but drop to NOE flight in a high threat environment. The Osprey is not currently used as an attack platform, nor is the CH-47. Both of those aircraft are essentially cargo aircraft and troop transports and usually operate in conjunction with other assets to provide protection to them during their missions. Cobra was an "interim" attack helo to use until the Cheyenne became operational. |
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Posted: 7/20/2017 7:38:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Cobra was an "interim" attack helo to use until the Cheyenne became operational. |
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Posted: 7/20/2017 8:56:38 PM EDT
[#37]
I played in the simulator. wow.
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Posted: 7/21/2017 10:29:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Likewise, I cannot see a need for the A-10 and the Apache when compound attack helicopters are introduced. http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/?q=60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1491932600419-fvl-gunship-3.jpg Sikorsky-Boeing concept for an attack FVL-Medium aircraft. When your helo can do 200kts+, the A-10 is a bit superfluous. |
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