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Posted: 4/19/2016 8:53:45 PM EDT
Strange. I'm assuming it was un-commanded. It's...concerning that something like that could happen. Presumably the only thing keeping the reverser stowed in flight was the squat switch?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG4S4OmA63w 
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:01:06 PM EDT
[#1]
pilot was showing off for camera man OP.
 manual engine thrust steerage.
United 232 without the altitude but yeah, holy shit. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:34:24 PM EDT
[#2]
After the second time I'm shutting it down.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:51:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Why are you supposing it is uncommanded?
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:58:59 PM EDT
[#4]
not un commanded if he took off again
it is not uncommon for it to show not stowed after landing so we open it and close it and repeat until we get a stowed indication. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 12:22:16 AM EDT
[#5]
3800 hours in the DC9 as a Captain, but not the MD series of airplanes. Does not matter, they have the same reverse system. Looks to me like he had an erroneous indication of not stowed. Regardless, it could have been mechanically locked out and MEL'ed prior to departure, you don't need the reverseres for flight anyway.
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Posted: 4/20/2016 12:44:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Older pilot, left his blinker on.
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Posted: 4/20/2016 2:00:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not un commanded if he took off again it is not uncommon for it to show not stowed after landing so we open it and close it and repeat until we get a stowed indication. Interesting, didn't think of that. Shame the equipment is in such a state that the pilots have to bang things open and closed like an old screen door to get them to work. 
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Posted: 4/20/2016 2:12:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting, didn't think of that. Shame the equipment is in such a state that the pilots have to bang things open and closed like an old screen door to get them to work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
not un commanded if he took off again it is not uncommon for it to show not stowed after landing so we open it and close it and repeat until we get a stowed indication. Interesting, didn't think of that. Shame the equipment is in such a state that the pilots have to bang things open and closed like an old screen door to get them to work. No. That isn't how it is, at all. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 1:57:20 PM EDT
[#9]
My money is in poor or "atypical" Captain technique.
Look how long he kept the buckets out on roll out. Then left turns with the T/R deploy. My money says the captain was "saving his brakes" and the f/o was rolling his eyes. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 2:01:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My money is in poor or "atypical" Captain technique. Look how long he kept the buckets out on roll out. Then left turns with the T/R deploy. My money says the captain was "saving his brakes" and the f/o was rolling his eyes. SOP Habit patterns for an icy runway |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 3:16:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Fun video.
https://youtu.be/7R0CViDUBFs
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Posted: 4/20/2016 4:37:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, didn't think of that. Shame the equipment is in such a state that the pilots have to bang things open and closed like an old screen door to get them to work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: not un commanded if he took off again it is not uncommon for it to show not stowed after landing so we open it and close it and repeat until we get a stowed indication. Interesting, didn't think of that. Shame the equipment is in such a state that the pilots have to bang things open and closed like an old screen door to get them to work. takes more than a squat switch to deploy TR's and I'm not sure why you would think that those are in a state of disrepair. Guess what happens when the engine doesn't light off? you try again. Know how many gate calls I've gotten for that? |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 4:50:22 PM EDT
[#13]
There was a 717 that had a thrust reverser deploy on takeoff from STL many years ago.....2001-2002 maybe? It was about the same time when one had the engine fire on takeoff. Will try to remember or find the details.
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Posted: 4/20/2016 5:05:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryHaha..good one. I got my MD-80 type (yes I know DC-9) in September of last year. Because of its many levers and knows and cranks, I call it the Russian Sub because it reminds me of a submarines control room. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 6:27:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haha..good one. I got my MD-80 type (yes I know DC-9) in September of last year. Because of its many levers and knows and cranks, I call it the Russian Sub because it reminds me of a submarines control room. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got my MD-80 type (yes I know DC-9) in September of last year. Because of its many levers and knows and cranks, I call it the Russian Sub because it reminds me of a submarines control room. I love old airplanes. After pilot training, my first panel was a C-130E that hadn't changed much since the 60s. When I first started flying it, I was humbled, but am a better pilot for it. The simplicity of the old stuff was wonderful, especially since I could level my ADI during any phase of flight. 0VVI on approach? Level it. 0VVI, dirty, door open on the run in? Level it. None of this "well, 2.7748 degrees is level right now... so fly that." NDB approaches were also easy on the old panel. However, I've never flown a true "glass" airplane and am no expert. The closest was a Beech 400, and that was 1st gen glass. I would love to fly an MD-80 before they are gone. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 7:02:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love old airplanes. After pilot training, my first panel was a C-130E that hadn't changed much since the 60s. When I first started flying it, I was humbled, but am a better pilot for it. The simplicity of the old stuff was wonderful, especially since I could level my ADI during any phase of flight. 0VVI on approach? Level it. 0VVI, dirty, door open on the run in? Level it. None of this "well, 2.7748 degrees is level right now... so fly that." NDB approaches were also easy on the old panel. However, I've never flown a true "glass" airplane and am no expert. The closest was a Beech 400, and that was 1st gen glass. I would love to fly an MD-80 before they are gone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I got my MD-80 type (yes I know DC-9) in September of last year. Because of its many levers and knows and cranks, I call it the Russian Sub because it reminds me of a submarines control room. I love old airplanes. After pilot training, my first panel was a C-130E that hadn't changed much since the 60s. When I first started flying it, I was humbled, but am a better pilot for it. The simplicity of the old stuff was wonderful, especially since I could level my ADI during any phase of flight. 0VVI on approach? Level it. 0VVI, dirty, door open on the run in? Level it. None of this "well, 2.7748 degrees is level right now... so fly that." NDB approaches were also easy on the old panel. However, I've never flown a true "glass" airplane and am no expert. The closest was a Beech 400, and that was 1st gen glass. I would love to fly an MD-80 before they are gone. Right now I'm on the 757 with the flat panel avionics, they replaced the old round dail instruments with a PFD and ND displays. I love it, but since I stay current on both I get to see the benefits of both. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#17]
I have 8000 hours on the MD-82/83. It grows on you, and I enjoyed my time on it.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 7:00:22 PM EDT
[#18]
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically.
I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 8:52:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. Every jet I've flown is fully capable of deploying one TR independent of the other. That includes Citations, CRJ, 737, Md80, 757/767. Even the MEL allows dispatch with one TR inop/locked out. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:35:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. Er, What? . What jets have you flown?
They pretty much all do that. Otherwise, how would you defer one?
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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:50:21 PM EDT
[#21]
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability.
The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 10:02:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability. The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. Must be a weird Bill Lear thing? Which Citations? Fwiw, normal jets have a thing that goes Up, and back. They work independently. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability. The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. None of the Lears I flew were like that. I've flown 20 series with Dee Howards and they were totally independent. I've only flown 30 series with Aeroncas, and you could single engine reverse, but you could only do it at idle. There was a solenoid that locked out the sub-throttles from being pulled above idle until both were deployed, but you could stil get idle reverse. No experience with Dee Howards on a 30 though. ETA spelling. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 12:03:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:02:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the Lears I flew were like that. I've flown 20 series with Dee Howards and they were totally independent. I've only flown 30 series with Aeroncas, and you could single engine reverse, but you could only do it at idle. There was a solenoid that locked out the sub-throttles from being pulled above idle until both were deployed, but you could stil get idle reverse. No experience with Dee Howards on a 30 though. ETA spelling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability. The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. None of the Lears I flew were like that. I've flown 20 series with Dee Howards and they were totally independent. I've only flown 30 series with Aeroncas, and you could single engine reverse, but you could only do it at idle. There was a solenoid that locked out the sub-throttles from being pulled above idle until both were deployed, but you could stil get idle reverse. No experience with Dee Howards on a 30 though. ETA spelling. 
Straight from the expanded normals on the LR-jet series and applies to both aeronca and Dee Howards. They are locked out in multiple places to prevent independent operation of the TRs. If you were flying a LR-jet that could deploy them independently something was bad wrong. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:17:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Like MACH said, it's not uncommon on the -82/83 for a reverser unlocked light to stay on after you stow the buckets. Usually cycling the affected reverser a couple of times fixes the problem.
Quoted:
Real glass is the good stuff. The MD-80 makes you work and perfect your fundamentals. Right now I'm on the 757 with the flat panel avionics, they replaced the old round dail instruments with a PFD and ND displays. I love it, but since I stay current on both I get to see the benefits of both. What are you doing that allows you to stay dual qualified, CKA, MTX test? It's pretty rare these days, I think the only guys at my shop that qualify on multiple aircraft anymore are the MTX test pilots. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 12:36:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s44.photobucket.com/user/jfcoggins/media/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/jfcoggins/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg</a> Straight from the expanded normals on the LR-jet series and applies to both aeronca and Dee Howards. They are locked out in multiple places to prevent independent operation of the TRs. If you were flying a LR-jet that could deploy them independently something was bad wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability. The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. None of the Lears I flew were like that. I've flown 20 series with Dee Howards and they were totally independent. I've only flown 30 series with Aeroncas, and you could single engine reverse, but you could only do it at idle. There was a solenoid that locked out the sub-throttles from being pulled above idle until both were deployed, but you could stil get idle reverse. No experience with Dee Howards on a 30 though. ETA spelling. <a href="http://s44.photobucket.com/user/jfcoggins/media/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/jfcoggins/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg</a> Straight from the expanded normals on the LR-jet series and applies to both aeronca and Dee Howards. They are locked out in multiple places to prevent independent operation of the TRs. If you were flying a LR-jet that could deploy them independently something was bad wrong. Interesting. Just as I suspected, it's some kind of weird, fucked up Lear thing. Pretty silly on a centerline thrust jet. It's funny how you exptrapolated that, to assume that's how all aircraft would be. Wouldn't be safe, otherwise. 
Pretty much every normal aircraft deploys independantly, and it isn't unusual to pick up a plane with the TR lever safety wired on one side. It's understood, that the pilots will show a bit of finesse in deploying the one good one. And this will really blow your mind: Large Turboprops will also go into reverse independently. It is helpful on an icy runway, but can get wiggly, if it happens inadvertently. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#28]
It's been a long time since I flew a CE-500 but I don't remember them being able to deploy one TR but leave the other stowed. That just seems like a dumbass idea to me begging to drag a newbie off the runway. I don't have a CE-500 manual anymore so I can't back that up with anything.
Its been even longer since I flew a BE-200 and I don't remember them being able to enter reverse independently either. That just doesn't seem like a good idea at all. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 4:11:42 PM EDT
[#29]
All of a sudden, I'm hoping my 2 scheduled flights on 88s this year get switched.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 6:06:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been a long time since I flew a CE-500 but I don't remember them being able to deploy one TR but leave the other stowed. That just seems like a dumbass idea to me begging to drag a newbie off the runway. I don't have a CE-500 manual anymore so I can't back that up with anything. Its been even longer since I flew a BE-200 and I don't remember them being able to enter reverse independently either. That just doesn't seem like a good idea at all. For turbo props I've flown the Beech 99, B-1900, and E-120 Brasilia, they all allow independent beta/reverse. To be honest, you're the only person I've heard of that flies something that DOESN'T allow separate deployment. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 6:08:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like MACH said, it's not uncommon on the -82/83 for a reverser unlocked light to stay on after you stow the buckets. Usually cycling the affected reverser a couple of times fixes the problem. What are you doing that allows you to stay dual qualified, CKA, MTX test? It's pretty rare these days, I think the only guys at my shop that qualify on multiple aircraft anymore are the MTX test pilots. Quote HistoryQuoted: Like MACH said, it's not uncommon on the -82/83 for a reverser unlocked light to stay on after you stow the buckets. Usually cycling the affected reverser a couple of times fixes the problem. Quoted: Real glass is the good stuff. The MD-80 makes you work and perfect your fundamentals. Right now I'm on the 757 with the flat panel avionics, they replaced the old round dail instruments with a PFD and ND displays. I love it, but since I stay current on both I get to see the benefits of both. What are you doing that allows you to stay dual qualified, CKA, MTX test? It's pretty rare these days, I think the only guys at my shop that qualify on multiple aircraft anymore are the MTX test pilots. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:48:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s44.photobucket.com/user/jfcoggins/media/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/jfcoggins/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg</a> Straight from the expanded normals on the LR-jet series and applies to both aeronca and Dee Howards. They are locked out in multiple places to prevent independent operation of the TRs. If you were flying a LR-jet that could deploy them independently something was bad wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
None of the lears or citations I've flown had ability. The only time I've seen a Lear be able to deploy one but not the other there was a series of faults from the pedestal to the tail. Both or none, not one. None of the Lears I flew were like that. I've flown 20 series with Dee Howards and they were totally independent. I've only flown 30 series with Aeroncas, and you could single engine reverse, but you could only do it at idle. There was a solenoid that locked out the sub-throttles from being pulled above idle until both were deployed, but you could stil get idle reverse. No experience with Dee Howards on a 30 though. ETA spelling. <a href="http://s44.photobucket.com/user/jfcoggins/media/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/jfcoggins/03639F29-75B3-49F2-8B3D-3CD0B2C3B999_zps3epmzggf.jpg</a> Straight from the expanded normals on the LR-jet series and applies to both aeronca and Dee Howards. They are locked out in multiple places to prevent independent operation of the TRs. If you were flying a LR-jet that could deploy them independently something was bad wrong. Out of curiosity, which model Lear and autopilot is that for? And is that the Lear expanded normals or a training provider's? I know the FC200 35/36s with Aeroncas that I flew could idle reverse on one engine. The 20 series would work independently, as can the A320 series. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:57:51 PM EDT
[#33]
The FC200 35/36.
None of the nearly dozen different tail numbers in the LR-jet series I've flown could asymmetrically deploy the TRs. I asked two CAE instructors today because I was convinced due to the shear number of y'all saying it's how they work, that I was wrong. Turns out, I'm not. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:02:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FC200 35/36. None of the nearly dozen different tail numbers in the LR-jet series I've flown could asymmetrically deploy the TRs. I asked two CAE instructors today because I was convinced due to the shear number of y'all saying it's how they work, that I was wrong. Turns out, I'm not. Interesting. Well, I learned something today. I also know of 2 that will. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:36:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been a long time since I flew a CE-500 but I don't remember them being able to deploy one TR but leave the other stowed. That just seems like a dumbass idea to me begging to drag a newbie off the runway. I don't have a CE-500 manual anymore so I can't back that up with anything. Its been even longer since I flew a BE-200 and I don't remember them being able to enter reverse independently either. That just doesn't seem like a good idea at all. LoL, you have no idea how funny that sounds to the rest of us. Lear apparently created a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and they had you convinced this was a critical thing. the ironic part is that the differential drag is nominal, on a centerline thrust jet. it's a little more noticeable when you have big fans outboard on the wing. (But still manageable, if you are smooth) Being able to operate them independently, in a crosswind, on an icy runway, is a very nice thing, - If you have finesse. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:55:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LoL, you have no idea how funny that sounds to the rest of us. Lear apparently created a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and they had you convinced this was a critical thing. the ironic part is that the differential drag is nominal, on a centerline thrust jet. it's a little more noticeable when you have big fans outboard on the wing. (But still manageable, if you are smooth) Being able to operate them independently, in a crosswind, on an icy runway, is a very nice thing, - If you have finesse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's been a long time since I flew a CE-500 but I don't remember them being able to deploy one TR but leave the other stowed. That just seems like a dumbass idea to me begging to drag a newbie off the runway. I don't have a CE-500 manual anymore so I can't back that up with anything. Its been even longer since I flew a BE-200 and I don't remember them being able to enter reverse independently either. That just doesn't seem like a good idea at all. LoL, you have no idea how funny that sounds to the rest of us. Lear apparently created a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and they had you convinced this was a critical thing. the ironic part is that the differential drag is nominal, on a centerline thrust jet. it's a little more noticeable when you have big fans outboard on the wing. (But still manageable, if you are smooth) Being able to operate them independently, in a crosswind, on an icy runway, is a very nice thing, - If you have finesse. Yeah...I'm actually a pretty good stick and would not have faired well flying in Alaska without finesse. I've used lots of asymmetric thrust for many phases of flight but deploying one TR doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not any different than having anti-skid on only of the mains. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. they all do that not only that but the 88 reversers are not matched by throttle settings. They open at different times and give different amounts of thrust with symmetric throttles. Do you even non-FADEC brah? |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 4:03:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they all do that not only that but the 88 reversers are not matched by throttle settings. They open at different times and give different amounts of thrust with symmetric throttles. Do you even non-FADEC brah? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. they all do that not only that but the 88 reversers are not matched by throttle settings. They open at different times and give different amounts of thrust with symmetric throttles. Do you even non-FADEC brah? It must have cost you a ton of money developing a STC turning EECs into a FADEC, broliene. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 12:42:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It must have cost you a ton of money developing a STC turning EECs into a FADEC, broliene. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. they all do that not only that but the 88 reversers are not matched by throttle settings. They open at different times and give different amounts of thrust with symmetric throttles. Do you even non-FADEC brah? It must have cost you a ton of money developing a STC turning EECs into a FADEC, broliene. You lost me on that one. 88's don't have EECs |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 9:26:54 AM EDT
[#40]
And the LR-Jet doesn't have a FADEC. I think the 60 does but I don't even 60.
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Posted: 5/7/2016 3:33:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know first hand that CRJ-200s, CRJ-900s, and 737s can deploy TR's asymmetrically. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
None of the jets I've ever flown had the ability to deploy a TR asymmetrically. I would be floored to find out a passenger jet had that ability. I know for a fact crj200 and 737-700 will. |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#42]
This discussion reminds me of the following TAM airlines crash. iirc, they had an inop reverser on the right engine and the procedure was supposed to be to leave thr right throttle in the idle detent while bringing the left into reverse. The pilot left one up and pushed the jet off the end.
There were some FM changes just prior to this that played into it as well. I dont recall those though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Airlines_Flight_3054 |
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Posted: 5/7/2016 5:53:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Challenger 600/601 will deploy independently. You can go full power with one TR on the Falcon 50.
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Posted: 5/7/2016 6:57:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Some aircraft allow reverser deployment while airborne. The C-17 and DC-8 come to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdn0465zE4o
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Posted: 5/8/2016 1:59:53 AM EDT
[#45]
I flew a 501SP for 3 years and it would deploy independently. I also flew a King Air 200 for 8 years and it would enter beta/reverse independently.
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