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Posted: 10/3/2014 9:16:45 AM EDT
I mean, say you are bopping along in the clouds on IFR flightplan and the ARTCC goes dark. What are you supposed to do? What did everyone do the other day?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 9:52:57 AM EDT
[#1]
You keep flying your assigned flight plan, let the company know, try to reach approach, and then the tower. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order.  Every decent airplane has TCAS these days, so the traditional role ATC played in Separating traffic, is almost duplicated.  Separation is mostly accomplished via ground metering anyway.   I was down in Orlando that day, but it must have been a non-issue, because I didn't hear about any shenanigans.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:05:41 AM EDT
[#2]
SERVO FREEZE BUTTON---PUSH

TREADMILL POWER SWITCH---OFF
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:11:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You keep flying your assigned flight plan, let the company know, try to reach approach, and then the tower. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order.  Every decent airplane has TCAS these days, so the traditional role ATC played in Separating traffic, is almost duplicated.
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Makes sense. I was curious if you contact last or expected next freq or maybe FSS. Thanks for the reply.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:36:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Commercial aircraft have TCAS, most of us private boys do not.

I wasn't in the air that day, much less near Chicago, but I can tell you what I would do if I lost comms with center while on an IFR clearance:

1 - FLY THE PLANE
This is the most important thing.  Keep up your instrument scan and do your business.  Nothing the boys on the ground do changes your airmanship in the least.  In fact, talking to them distracts from flying the plane.  So just keep on flying and enjoy one of the greatest achievements of mankind.  A quiet radio is (usually) a sign of a relaxing flight.

2 - Navigate in accordance with your last acknowledged clearance
If your last exchange included being told to climb and maintain 8000' and proceed to fix ABCDE then direct to destination then you do just that.  If you were told to expect a new altitude in X minutes then when that time comes proceed to that altitude.  If you were told to hold at a fix and wait for further vectors then hold at that fix.  When it comes time to fly an instrument approach FLY THE FULL APPROACH, including entering properly/procedure turns/etc.  If someone is seeing you on radar they will recognize what you're doing as being the ILS/RNAV/LOC/NDB/VOR to RWY XY approach.  Just like being in the pattern on a VMC day, doing what other pilots EXPECT you to do is vital.

3 - Attempt new communication
First, put the frequency that went dead on your other comm and hit the "both" button on your audio panel so you can hear if it comes back to life.  Try the last frequency you were on before this one as you might still be in range of their antennae.  Then look on the charts for other nearby center, approach and tower frequencies (in that order).  Keep flying per # 2 above and rinse/repeat as new center/approach/tower frequencies come into range.  You could also try the CTAF at nearby airports to see if anyone in the local pattern or on the ground has any intel on what's going on.

It really doesn't have to be a big deal.  Panic kills people - failed radio/radar/gyros don't.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:14:47 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


Makes sense. I was curious if you contact last or expected next freq or maybe FSS. Thanks for the reply.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You keep flying your assigned flight plan, let the company know, try to reach approach, and then the tower. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order.  Every decent airplane has TCAS these days, so the traditional role ATC played in Separating traffic, is almost duplicated.


Makes sense. I was curious if you contact last or expected next freq or maybe FSS. Thanks for the reply.



last freq, then next (if you know it) , Guard freq, send a messg via acars to ask the dispatcher if he knows wtf is going on.  There would be a good bit of going on, but it wouldn't be a dangerous situation.  

If I were IFR in a small GA aircraft, I would cancel IFR and land at a small airport to avoid any hassle.   The airlines don't have that luxury.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:20:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I mean, say you are bopping along in the clouds on IFR flightplan and the ARTCC goes dark. What are you supposed to do? What did everyone do the other day?
View Quote


Conveniently there are procedures for that which any current IFR pilot should know.  :-)

It happens sometimes, this was just a lot bigger.  I've been up North in Michigan and lost contact with ATC while IFR.  Not really a big deal for those of us in small airplanes.  Perhaps a little more entertaining for those in the flying buses that don't have as much flexibility.
Link Posted: 10/8/2014 1:33:07 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


Conveniently there are procedures for that which any current IFR pilot should know.  :-)

It happens sometimes, this was just a lot bigger.  I've been up North in Michigan and lost contact with ATC while IFR.  Not really a big deal for those of us in small airplanes.  Perhaps a little more entertaining for those in the flying buses that don't have as much flexibility.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I mean, say you are bopping along in the clouds on IFR flightplan and the ARTCC goes dark. What are you supposed to do? What did everyone do the other day?


Conveniently there are procedures for that which any current IFR pilot should know.  :-)

It happens sometimes, this was just a lot bigger.  I've been up North in Michigan and lost contact with ATC while IFR.  Not really a big deal for those of us in small airplanes.  Perhaps a little more entertaining for those in the flying buses that don't have as much flexibility.


Between ARINC, data links, sat links and other comms, it can be hard not to be in comms with someone.

The Beechjet had a phone in it, which rocked.
Link Posted: 10/8/2014 1:45:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  3 - Attempt new communication
First, put the frequency that went dead on your other comm and hit the "both" button on your audio panel so you can hear if it comes back to life.  Try the last frequency you were on before this one as you might still be in range of their antennae.  Then look on the charts for other nearby center, approach and tower frequencies (in that order).  Keep flying per # 2 above and rinse/repeat as new center/approach/tower frequencies come into range.  You could also try the CTAF at nearby airports to see if anyone in the local pattern or on the ground has any intel on what's going on.
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Mad props to you, good sir.
Link Posted: 10/8/2014 9:56:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Roll and pull.
Link Posted: 10/9/2014 12:12:06 PM EDT
[#10]
I assumed there were set procedures for IFR pilots to follow. That's what I was asking.

I completely expect everyone to keep flying. Nobody crashes because they lose radio contact.. Well, maybe if they are on one of those old PAR approaches where the radar guy gives you manual vectors in.


The closest thing I have had is downwind, midfield and someone won't shut up for me to get permission to land, so I'm 2mi past the end of the runway still downwind when I get permission to land.

I imagined that sort of thing, in the clouds, passing your last approved point in the flight and you lose your controller. Who would you call next to proceed.. Someone said circle the fix or proceed as filed.. I guess if the next point is controlled airspace you better circle.
Link Posted: 10/9/2014 4:23:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Avenue F and AME does wonders.
Link Posted: 10/9/2014 6:06:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Call FSS on my phone if all the above fails.
Link Posted: 10/12/2014 5:20:25 AM EDT
[#13]
First things first....

1) immediately panic
2) push THE RED BUTTON , all the real pilots here will understand this procedure
3) ??????
4) profit



Seriously tho, that day was a clusterfuck of EPIC proportions
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 11:51:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
First things first....

1) immediately panic
2) push THE RED BUTTON , all the real pilots here will understand this procedure
3) ??????
4) profit



Seriously tho, that day was a clusterfuck of EPIC proportions
View Quote


The red button... that turns the chemtrails on right?  

That's what mine does anyways...
Link Posted: 10/17/2014 10:05:15 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:


The red button... that turns the chemtrails on right?  

That's what mine does anyways...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
First things first....

1) immediately panic
2) push THE RED BUTTON , all the real pilots here will understand this procedure
3) ??????
4) profit



Seriously tho, that day was a clusterfuck of EPIC proportions


The red button... that turns the chemtrails on right?  

That's what mine does anyways...


The second rule of fight club prohibits me from further disclosure
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 5:03:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 11/7/2014 3:04:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



last freq, then next (if you know it) , Guard freq, send a messg via acars to ask the dispatcher if he knows wtf is going on.  There would be a good bit of going on, but it wouldn't be a dangerous situation.  

If I were IFR in a small GA aircraft, I would cancel IFR and land at a small airport to avoid any hassle.   The airlines don't have that luxury.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You keep flying your assigned flight plan, let the company know, try to reach approach, and then the tower. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order.  Every decent airplane has TCAS these days, so the traditional role ATC played in Separating traffic, is almost duplicated.


Makes sense. I was curious if you contact last or expected next freq or maybe FSS. Thanks for the reply.



last freq, then next (if you know it) , Guard freq, send a messg via acars to ask the dispatcher if he knows wtf is going on.  There would be a good bit of going on, but it wouldn't be a dangerous situation.  

If I were IFR in a small GA aircraft, I would cancel IFR and land at a small airport to avoid any hassle.   The airlines don't have that luxury.


Meh, it could be. I've had TCAS and radar contact and have still had some close calls. Neither are perfect, and that's some of the busiest airspace in the world.
Link Posted: 11/7/2014 3:12:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I assumed there were set procedures for IFR pilots to follow. That's what I was asking.

I completely expect everyone to keep flying. Nobody crashes because they lose radio contact.. Well, maybe if they are on one of those old PAR approaches where the radar guy gives you manual vectors in.


The closest thing I have had is downwind, midfield and someone won't shut up for me to get permission to land, so I'm 2mi past the end of the runway still downwind when I get permission to land.

I imagined that sort of thing, in the clouds, passing your last approved point in the flight and you lose your controller. Who would you call next to proceed.. Someone said circle the fix or proceed as filed.. I guess if the next point is controlled airspace you better circle.
View Quote

There are specific procedures that depend, like others said, on your last clearance. There are also very strict comm requirements for PARs (which are still very much around today, though primarily in military aviation), and specific procedures for lost comm on the approach.
Link Posted: 11/7/2014 3:24:28 PM EDT
[#20]
hit the Otto button

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