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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:07:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Airline pilots have to learn, and practice, and successfully demonstrate every conceivable emergency that can happen, on the airplane they are being trained on.
It's more information than you can imagine. Often, an emergency doesn't happen the way checklist says it will. Especially, on new designs. The engineers and designers are not always 100% knowledgable on how one system will effect another. It's very complicated, and it would take me a few hours to even try to explain it to you. There isn't really an analogy that you could easily relate to. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:21:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Airline pilots have to learn, and practice, and successfully demonstrate every conceivable emergency that can happen, on the airplane they are being trained on. It's more information than you can possibly imagine. Often, an emergency doesn't happen the way checklist says it will. Especially, on new designs. The engineers and designers are not always 100% knowledgable on how one system will effect another. It's very complicated, and it would take me a few hours to even try to explain it to you. There isn't really an analogy that you could easily relate to. Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:27:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Airline pilots have to learn, and practice, and successfully demonstrate every conceivable emergency that can happen, on the airplane they are being trained on. It's more information than you can possibly imagine. Often, an emergency doesn't happen the way checklist says it will. Especially, on new designs. The engineers and designers are not always 100% knowledgable on how one system will effect another. It's very complicated, and it would take me a few hours to even try to explain it to you. There isn't really an analogy that you could easily relate to. Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... Really?  . I'm sorry, but you sound really rude, and not at all smart. You are either lying about your IQ, or you're one of those Rainman types with no social skills. If you aren't completely 'tarded, I'm sure you can find what you're looking for on the WWW.
Alright, I'm sort of intrigued how a 140+ IQ genius becomes a cop. IM me proof of your IQ, and I'll explain everything to you. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:35:04 AM EDT
[#4]
So, if I don't provide proof of my IQ, no explanation of why the pilots did what they did? Got it. I'm the stupid one.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:40:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved on a college-level class was an A-, so, well you can figure it out. I became a cop because I wanted to help people. Before I decided I couldn't do without women, I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until they found out my left eye vision was 20-25, Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship offer when they found out I had asthma after 13. Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:45:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, if I don't provide proof of my IQ, no explanation of why the pilots did what they did? Got it. I'm the stupid one. Anyone can claim anything on the internet. If you want someone to spend time on something, the least you can do is start out polite and honest. It establishes credibility and interest. Basically, we would identify the correct engine, shut down fuel to it, refer to the checklist, verify that remaining systems were transferred, then decide the next course of action and complete other necessary checklists and briefings. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:47:45 AM EDT
[#7]
lol
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:52:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved on a college-level class was an A-, so, well you can figure it out. I became a cop because I wanted to help people. Before I decided I couldn't do without women, I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until they found out my left eye vision was 20-25, Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship offer when they found out I had asthma after 13. Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:55:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Go back and read reports and discussion threads on the Air France 447 crash a few years ago.
There's a very different method of operation of the modern Airbus transport aircraft. To many, it's not reassuring. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:56:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone can claim anything on the internet. If you want someone to spend time on something, the least you can do is start out polite and honest. It establishes credibility and interest. B Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, if I don't provide proof of my IQ, no explanation of why the pilots did what they did? Got it. I'm the stupid one. Anyone can claim anything on the internet. If you want someone to spend time on something, the least you can do is start out polite and honest. It establishes credibility and interest. B I said I was ignorant, as a guy that just flew as a passenger. I admitted my lack of knowledge and expected a professional response. If you viewed my initial query as anything less than the 95th percentile of proper english grammar and composition, you are severely mistaken. I am ignorant; not stupid. I don't fly airplanes for a living, much less heavy transport planes. Such planes that those of us unwashed would expect the best and brightest, or at least most experienced and talented, pilots of an airplane to pilot. I had specific questions, you attacked my ability to comprehend and told me it was much to complicated for me to understand. I am willing to listen to your explanation. I am not willing to be told I cannot understand. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:58:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved on a college-level class was an A-, so, well you can figure it out. I became a cop because I wanted to help people. Before I decided I couldn't do without women, I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until they found out my left eye vision was 20-25, Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship offer when they found out I had asthma after 13. Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. I'm 45. Bill of Rights claimed I wasn't capable of understanding the complexity of the problem. Perhaps, I over-reacted. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:05:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go back and read reports and discussion threads on the Air France 447 crash a few years ago. There's a very different method of operation of the modern Airbus transport aircraft. To many, it's not reassuring. I have. It's why I try to fly Boeing wherever I go. Yet, on Friday, I fly from SFO to Dublin on an Aer Lingus A330-200 and it troubles me. Wait, it doesn't trouble me as much as those guys on Qantas 32. Did they ever declare an emergency? The video is unclear on that part. They had six pilots in the cockpit, but it took them over an hour to send one back to look at the big holes in the wing? I'm glad they got all the ECAMS alerts cleared in 55 minutes. What if they had concentrated on evaluating the damage and landing that porker? What if they had turned around and used the remaining hydraulics to drop the gear and flaps before it became impossible to so so due to damage? I guess the ECAMS never brought those things up... |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:19:26 AM EDT
[#13]
I know what I would have tried to do: land as soon as possible first priority while responding to the emergencies.
It reminds me of the Alaska 261: instead of returning to the departure airport as soon as possible, they troubleshot the system en route until it failed catastrophically. Another is Eastern 855: instead of landing at Nassau with one engine out they chose to return to Miami...and lost the other two along the way. Hindsight is 20/20, but there is also foresight. Moral of the stories to me: never bet against Murphy. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:26:54 AM EDT
[#14]
I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS.
It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:14:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved..... I wanted to help people. .....I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until..... Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship ...... My iq is..... Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. No it doesn't, but you clearly explained how your life is defined by not making it and that you couldn't do what you wanted to do so you settled for being a cop. Frankly, the people I want to be cops are helpful citizens who want to contribute to society rather than people who settle for it after their life sputters out and goes nowhere. Go pull over a speeding soccer mom and impress her with your authority, because you failed miserably in impressing anybody here thanks to your astounding lack of people skills and general ignorance. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:01:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it doesn't, but you clearly explained how your life is defined by not making it and that you couldn't do what you wanted to do so you settled for being a cop. Frankly, the people I want to be cops are helpful citizens who want to contribute to society rather than people who settle for it after their life sputters out and goes nowhere. Go pull over a speeding soccer mom and impress her with your authority, because you failed miserably in impressing anybody here thanks to your astounding lack of people skills and general ignorance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved..... I wanted to help people. .....I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until..... Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship ...... My iq is..... Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. No it doesn't, but you clearly explained how your life is defined by not making it and that you couldn't do what you wanted to do so you settled for being a cop. Frankly, the people I want to be cops are helpful citizens who want to contribute to society rather than people who settle for it after their life sputters out and goes nowhere. Go pull over a speeding soccer mom and impress her with your authority, because you failed miserably in impressing anybody here thanks to your astounding lack of people skills and general ignorance. 3rd post was one of the most arrogant posts I have ever seen but I have always wanted to use this: 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 9:20:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm 45. Bill of Rights claimed I wasn't capable of understanding the complexity of the problem. Perhaps, I over-reacted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved on a college-level class was an A-, so, well you can figure it out. I became a cop because I wanted to help people. Before I decided I couldn't do without women, I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until they found out my left eye vision was 20-25, Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship offer when they found out I had asthma after 13. Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. I'm 45. Bill of Rights claimed I wasn't capable of understanding the complexity of the problem. Perhaps, I over-reacted. No he told you it would take several hours to explain, not that your incapable. Stop acting like a whiny 2 year old, you might be 45, but your acting like a small child. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:41:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Airline pilots have to learn, and practice, and successfully demonstrate every conceivable emergency that can happen, on the airplane they are being trained on. It's more information than you can possibly imagine. Often, an emergency doesn't happen the way checklist says it will. Especially, on new designs. The engineers and designers are not always 100% knowledgable on how one system will effect another. It's very complicated, and it would take me a few hours to even try to explain it to you. There isn't really an analogy that you could easily relate to. Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... Mensa membership number? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 10:42:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh, the lowest grade I've ever achieved on a college-level class was an A-, so, well you can figure it out. I became a cop because I wanted to help people. Before I decided I couldn't do without women, I wanted to be a Jesuit priest. Air Force Academy recruiters loved me until they found out my left eye vision was 20-25, Navy Reserve pulled the scholarship offer when they found out I had asthma after 13. Still doesn't explain why the Qantas pilots did what they did. Why do you feel the need to spell out the minutae of your imagined persona to a bunch of people who don't give a shit? You sound like you're about 14 which means you signed up for arfcom at 2. Lolz. +1 |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 12:55:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 9:37:43 PM EDT
[#22]
They landed safely. At the end of the day, that's the important thing.
There has to be a balance in any emergency between recovering the aircraft before things get worse and taking the time to fully understand and deal with all the problems you face. My first instinct is generally to turn toward a suitable spot to land. Although, at a ~10 minutes of flight, they might have run off the end of the runway and killed everyone in a cartwheeling fireball, so waiting certainly had some potential benefits! |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 9:41:30 PM EDT
[#23]
You're a bit in over your head here, vojta. Demanding a short answer to such an event is not realistic if you want to know the truth. The number of varibles involved are huge. By the way, an emergency was delcared quickly after the engine explosion and it was pretty clear in the video.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Airline pilots have to learn, and practice, and successfully demonstrate every conceivable emergency that can happen, on the airplane they are being trained on. It's more information than you can possibly imagine. Often, an emergency doesn't happen the way checklist says it will. Especially, on new designs. The engineers and designers are not always 100% knowledgable on how one system will effect another. It's very complicated, and it would take me a few hours to even try to explain it to you. There isn't really an analogy that you could easily relate to. Yeah, you fail. If you can't explain what an airline pilot should do if a turbofan engine grenades, then you aren't the solution to my problem. That's totally non-technical, and a question a pilot who flies a turbofan heavy should be able to answer. I'm just a customer. I look at the youtube video of Shamrock 12, an Aer Lingus A330-200 engine out take-off, and compare it with this, which is much worse and think.... Really, try your best and explain it to this 140+ IQ guy. I've got plenty of time... |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:26:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. Iirc, they stopped it ~100yds short of the end of the runway.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 2:01:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. Disagree. Unless there is major flight surface missing from the jet rushing back to Earth isn't generally the best course of action. I am curious why the A380 crew was so against burning some gas. They got the gear down, burn some holes and lighten the jet a bit to give yourself some more breathing room on landing.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:07:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think they handled it very well. One pilot was always flying. One handled the FMS. It was a literal worst case series of cascading failures. The aircraft landed in one piece, and is even probably reuseable. Bravo. Agreed except I wouldn't have remained in the air just to complete emergency procedures...proceed to nearest airfield and land (gross weight permitting) and perform emergency procedures en route. The airplane was returned to service after an 18 month layup (10 months waiting for a berth in the repair shop) and $139 million repair charge. A380 Repair There was a lot more wrong/damaged with that aircraft than "just" the grenaded engine...another reason to get back to mother earth ASAP. You don't just point it at the ground and hit the brakes. As Soon As Possible includes spending some time to evaluate the capabilities of the plane so you have an idea what is possible. Obviously that doesn't apply if it's pointing straight down and on fire, but if it's still flying, you owe it to everyone on board and everyone on the ground to understand what will happen when you act. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 4:25:40 PM EDT
[#28]
What in creation is going on in this thread....sheesh
vojta, you are so far outside of your skill set it nearly gave my iPad cancer. While some emergencies exist that require all procedures to be put on hold and land NOW, they are very few and far between. Plus, your interpretation of how they handled the EICAS messages is totally skewed. In these types of crew alerting systems, a single failure, such as an engine failure, causes multiple, sometimes pages of EICAS messages. If you aren't immediately aware of the EXACT problem, a crew must attempt to determine root cause by evaluating these multiple messages in several ways. I have flown airplanes who's EICAS systems were such that the original problem would be displayed, then "buried" by the resulting associated failures. This could easily cause a task saturated crew to mis-identify the correct, and most critical failure. PS. I've been alive for 45 years and have never encountered a single social encounter that required the stating of my or my associate's IQ number. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What in creation is going on in this thread....sheesh vojta, you are so far outside of your skill set it nearly gave my iPad cancer. While some emergencies exist that require all procedures to be put on hold and land NOW, they are very few and far between. Plus, your interpretation of how they handled the EICAS messages is totally skewed. In these types of crew alerting systems, a single failure, such as an engine failure, causes multiple, sometimes pages of EICAS messages. If you aren't immediately aware of the EXACT problem, a crew must attempt to determine root cause by evaluating these multiple messages in several ways. I have flown airplanes who's EICAS systems were such that the original problem would be displayed, then "buried" by the resulting associated failures. This could easily cause a task saturated crew to mis-identify the correct, and most critical failure. PS. I've been alive for 45 years and have never encountered a single social encounter that required the stating of my or my associate's IQ number. Well, obviously you've never spent enough time in GD. It's a very useful thing to be able to throw around in there. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 10:02:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Haha
Very true |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 2:53:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go back and read reports and discussion threads on the Air France 447 crash a few years ago. There's a very different method of operation of the modern Airbus transport aircraft. To many, it's not reassuring. and by not reassuring he means absolutely fucking terrifying beyond belief. Also wtf is up with the OP? |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:40:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Wow, I thought GD stayed out of the tech forums.
Who the hell knows their IQ? |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:16:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Wow, that plane had more severe damage than I realized from watching the news when it happened and watching the video that the OP posted. Look at the pictures of the damage here: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/frightening-photos-from-the-report-on-the-qantas-a380-incident-show-exactly-what-happened-2013-7#qantas-atsb-1
Personally, I'd say that that aircrew did a superb job of handling that mess and landing the plane in one piece. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 6:14:44 PM EDT
[#34]
This is not GD
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