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Posted: 8/31/2016 12:47:42 AM EDT
[#1]
They are the standard in the 3rd world. They work great. Buy a japanese brand, you cant go wrong. Its just a differemt philosophy.
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Posted: 8/31/2016 12:52:01 AM EDT
[#2]
Some come with system and hoses pre-charged and zero loss fittings. For a simple install, a DIY is possible. You lose the warranty.
A pro-install of a ductless split usually doubles the price or more. My choice was to simply buy a better ducted split system to replace the one I had. 25+ SEER and I run it much colder because it is more efficient. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 12:53:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are the standard in the 3rd world. They work great. Buy a japanese brand, you cant go wrong. Its just a differemt philosophy. Yeah, I agree. I hear the Mitsubishi mini splits are fantastic. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 12:56:32 AM EDT
[#4]
I bought a cheap $600 Pioneer, installed it myself (never did it before), works great. Not too hard, just make sure you evacuate the lines with a vacuum pump the lines properly.
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Posted: 8/31/2016 1:03:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I agree. I hear the Mitsubishi mini splits are fantastic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They are the standard in the 3rd world. They work great. Buy a japanese brand, you cant go wrong. Its just a differemt philosophy. Yeah, I agree. I hear the Mitsubishi mini splits are fantastic. We install a bunch of these, and have the fewest issues with Mitsubishi. You can connect up to 16 heads(inside part) on one outside mini-split condenser. Cool technology and they are all more efficient than ducted systems. Downside IMHO is they don't seem to last as long as ducted machines. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 5:14:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are the standard in the 3rd world. They work great. Buy a japanese brand, you cant go wrong. Its just a differemt philosophy. The place we stay in Belize has them. You could hang meat in the room even if its 90 and humid outside. Literally you can make the suite too cold. J- |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 7:42:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Just had a Mitsubishi system installed in May. 36k btu outside unit, with (1) 18k, (2) 9K heads. Works great. The 18k head takes care of our large living/dining room with 17' cathedral ceilings without a problem, one 9k head takes care of my wifes home office and the other 9k head is installed in my mothers apt. Normally if it is a warm/humid season, we can count on electric bills running $200-225/month. This year, although we were running the split system more than we would normally run the window units we use to have, the energy costs were $175-$185/mo. So even though we used them more, we still saved money. I'm very happy with the system.
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Posted: 8/31/2016 8:59:09 AM EDT
[#8]
I just put a Pioneer in my home and it is awesome.... I did a self install and paid an AC guy to evacuate the lines and do a leak check ($150).
I went with Pioneer as they are based out of Doral and I was able to pick up locally. The unit was all inclusive plus the mounting brackets was approx $650. Link to Pioneer |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 6:40:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Do they work? How expensive are they? Is it possible to install them yourself? Yes, they can be very energy efficient. They saved us thousands because #2 fuel oil was expensive. A 22 SEER and 10.5 HSPF rating is easy on the wallet. Let them run constantly because there is the potential for mold growth if the fan isn't on. You mentioned AC but if you want some heat, take a look at the Mitsubishi H2I units. FWIW ... I installed two 1.5 ton units without a HVAC/EPA licence. The average cost for each unit was about $2,200 including the copper. I did the nitrogen purge routine and pulled a good vacuum. Last winter, during the beginning of the heating season ( four year old unit ), I could hear one of the units going into a defrost cycle way too often. It eventually shut down so I replaced the outdoor unit at a cost of about $1,600. I would recommend that you hire a licensed HVAC contractor for the install and to have a warranty. If you can work out a deal where you hang it on the wall and set it on the pad to save some money that's great. I lost some money with the DYI approach. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 7:29:29 PM EDT
[#10]
They work awesome.
I have a Daikin multi split heat pump. 19 seer and 12.5 hspf. 1 condenser and 2 evaps. I do refrigeration so installation was a breeze. Stick to Daikin or Mitsubishi. Size them correctly Make sure you know how to flare correctly, get refrigeration assembly lube for flares, pressure test and pull a deep vacuum. Since you need to ask if you can diy, you have no idea how to do the following nor the tools and knowledge how to use said tools and equipment. Good luck. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 8:34:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They work awesome. I have a Daikin multi split heat pump. 19 seer and 12.5 hspf. 1 condenser and 2 evaps. I do refrigeration so installation was a breeze. Stick to Daikin or Mitsubishi. Size them correctly Make sure you know how to flare correctly, get refrigeration assembly lube for flares, pressure test and pull a deep vacuum. Since you need to ask if you can diy, you have no idea how to do the following nor the tools and knowledge how to use said tools and equipment. Good luck. That's a good point. I probably spent nearly $700 on a SMAN3, vacuum pump, oil, a second gauge and fittings. It's not cheap. If you have to add a charge because the pre-charge isn't adequate add the cost of a good scale. I had the intent back then to get a licence but decided the area was to competitive. Another point, OP. About five years ago we hired a HVAC contractor to install a unit on a client's house. The unit worked great but about 60 days after it was put in service one of the boards went bad. Mitsubishi had a replacement board to us in about one week. I watched the tech on the phone with Mitsubishi as he was walked through the testing procedure for that unit. If I called Mitsubishi they wouldn't talk to me. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 9:21:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a cheap $600 Pioneer, installed it myself (never did it before), works great. Not too hard, just make sure you evacuate the lines with a vacuum pump the lines properly. This! I'm impressed with their systems. I bought the 18,000 btu model with 21 seer. Plan to heat with it too, since it works down to 5. As far as the DIY install, it is not that hard. Pioneer sells very cheap gauge and hoses ($20) and you can get a compressor run vacuum pump from Harbor Freight for about $20. Pioneer included a flare fitting sealer to help make sure the connections sealed the first time. A similar Mitsubishi system would have cost about double the Pioneer cost. ETA: In the third world they don't pull a vacuum, they just open refrigerant into the lines, vent the line at the other end with 4 short bursts before opening that valve to the compressor. We can't do that. |
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Posted: 9/1/2016 7:22:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Make sure you are willing to deal with noise and appearance.
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Posted: 9/1/2016 8:30:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Stick with Daikin or Mitsubishi. Pay for the install from a 3D or Diamond dealer. They will also get the correct sized units for you
Doing so will get you a 10+ year parts warranty. Look at paying for the install as insurance |
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Posted: 9/1/2016 8:33:32 PM EDT
[#15]
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Make sure you are willing to deal with noise and appearance. What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system |
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Posted: 9/1/2016 10:06:31 PM EDT
[#16]
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What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Make sure you are willing to deal with noise and appearance. What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system Yeah I have never seen/heard one be noisy. J- |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 7:32:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Make sure you are willing to deal with noise and appearance. What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system No they are not. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#18]
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Yeah I have never seen/heard one be noisy. J- Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Make sure you are willing to deal with noise and appearance. What noise are you talking about? They are quieter than any standard spilt system Yeah I have never seen/heard one be noisy. J- Never heard a decent forced air system have you? I have even installed high velocity systems that beat the many 'Mr. Slim' systems we used in equipment rooms. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 11:48:13 PM EDT
[#19]
You will hear the fan and air flowing. Just the same as a central air unit.
They are not truly silent. They are worth getting if you have more heating months than cooling months, no ductwork and no way to install duct work due to design of current room/house. And also they install in 1 day depending on how you want it |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 11:13:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will hear the fan and air flowing. Just the same as a central air unit. They are not truly silent. They are worth getting if you have more heating months than cooling months, no ductwork and no way to install duct work due to design of current room/house. And also they install in 1 day depending on how you want it Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will hear the fan and air flowing. Just the same as a central air unit. They are not truly silent. They are worth getting if you have more heating months than cooling months, no ductwork and no way to install duct work due to design of current room/house. And also they install in 1 day depending on how you want it You will hear the fan and air flowing. Just the same as a central air unit. So a fan in the same room makes less noise than the remote one for the whole house. Right. They are not as bad as a window unit but far worse than a well designed central air system. The only place my central has ANY sound is standing directly in front of the main return. In a hallway. You can tell it is running by standing in front of an outlet and feeling the cool air moving. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 11:17:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Just don't install the outdoor unit any where close to a window or anyplace you would like to sit outside.
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Posted: 9/4/2016 12:10:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just don't install the outdoor unit any where close to a window or anyplace you would like to sit outside. False I have one next to my patio, you can't even hear it run. It is a Daikin 3 zone multi split 2ton unit. I can hold a conversation using my condenser as a table for my beer and you'll barely hear the fan. The fan motor on both condenser and evaps are inverter driven so the fan isn't ether "on" or "off" it will run 1/4,1/2,3/4 speeds outside, and the compressor is silent. Indoors the evap or "wall unit" has a "nighttime silent mode" and 1,2,3,4,5 and a "powerful mode. There is only airflow noise from speeds 3-powerful. I can hear the louver motors indoors over the fan motor. The fan motor is silent, as I said, you hear airflow. I have a couch under a 18000btu (1.5 ton). In my bedroom I have a 7000btu unit and that is even more silent. They are quieter than a new stand up fan by 1/2 the noise. I hear the refrigerant through the pipes more than anything outdoors . The new units are very reliable and almost silent with no vibrations. Iam a professional for this trade and there are is some bullshit floating around within this thread. Either they are older units, or word of mouth being spread from friend to friend. Good luck to all. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 12:22:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Pioneer specs their outdoor units at 52-61 db. Mine is 61 and plenty quiet. Get 20' away and you can't hear it very easily.
Indoor are 34-45 db. If you can hear it you're not shooting enough. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 3:22:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
False I have one next to my patio, you can't even hear it run. It is a Daikin 3 zone multi split 2ton unit. I can hold a conversation using my condenser as a table for my beer and you'll barely hear the fan. The fan motor on both condenser and evaps are inverter driven so the fan isn't ether "on" or "off" it will run 1/4,1/2,3/4 speeds outside, and the compressor is silent. Indoors the evap or "wall unit" has a "nighttime silent mode" and 1,2,3,4,5 and a "powerful mode. There is only airflow noise from speeds 3-powerful. I can hear the louver motors indoors over the fan motor. The fan motor is silent, as I said, you hear airflow. I have a couch under a 18000btu (1.5 ton). In my bedroom I have a 7000btu unit and that is even more silent. They are quieter than a new stand up fan by 1/2 the noise. I hear the refrigerant through the pipes more than anything outdoors . The new units are very reliable and almost silent with no vibrations. Iam a professional for this trade and there are is some bullshit floating around within this thread. Either they are older units, or word of mouth being spread from friend to friend. Good luck to all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just don't install the outdoor unit any where close to a window or anyplace you would like to sit outside. False I have one next to my patio, you can't even hear it run. It is a Daikin 3 zone multi split 2ton unit. I can hold a conversation using my condenser as a table for my beer and you'll barely hear the fan. The fan motor on both condenser and evaps are inverter driven so the fan isn't ether "on" or "off" it will run 1/4,1/2,3/4 speeds outside, and the compressor is silent. Indoors the evap or "wall unit" has a "nighttime silent mode" and 1,2,3,4,5 and a "powerful mode. There is only airflow noise from speeds 3-powerful. I can hear the louver motors indoors over the fan motor. The fan motor is silent, as I said, you hear airflow. I have a couch under a 18000btu (1.5 ton). In my bedroom I have a 7000btu unit and that is even more silent. They are quieter than a new stand up fan by 1/2 the noise. I hear the refrigerant through the pipes more than anything outdoors . The new units are very reliable and almost silent with no vibrations. Iam a professional for this trade and there are is some bullshit floating around within this thread. Either they are older units, or word of mouth being spread from friend to friend. Good luck to all. That has been my experience, too. The only noise that I can hear at the condenser and the evaporator is air movement. There is nearly no equipment noise. I do hear the defrost cycles but they aren't bad. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 7:48:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That has been my experience, too. The only noise that I can hear at the condenser and the evaporator is air movement. There is nearly no equipment noise. I do hear the defrost cycles but they aren't bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just don't install the outdoor unit any where close to a window or anyplace you would like to sit outside. False I have one next to my patio, you can't even hear it run. It is a Daikin 3 zone multi split 2ton unit. I can hold a conversation using my condenser as a table for my beer and you'll barely hear the fan. The fan motor on both condenser and evaps are inverter driven so the fan isn't ether "on" or "off" it will run 1/4,1/2,3/4 speeds outside, and the compressor is silent. Indoors the evap or "wall unit" has a "nighttime silent mode" and 1,2,3,4,5 and a "powerful mode. There is only airflow noise from speeds 3-powerful. I can hear the louver motors indoors over the fan motor. The fan motor is silent, as I said, you hear airflow. I have a couch under a 18000btu (1.5 ton). In my bedroom I have a 7000btu unit and that is even more silent. They are quieter than a new stand up fan by 1/2 the noise. I hear the refrigerant through the pipes more than anything outdoors . The new units are very reliable and almost silent with no vibrations. Iam a professional for this trade and there are is some bullshit floating around within this thread. Either they are older units, or word of mouth being spread from friend to friend. Good luck to all. That has been my experience, too. The only noise that I can hear at the condenser and the evaporator is air movement. There is nearly no equipment noise. I do hear the defrost cycles but they aren't bad. Air movement IS EQUIPMENT NOISE. I installed hundreds of them in communications equipment rooms. They manage to swamp out the noise from a couple of six foot equipment racks with multiple fans. On one very large place we had to use multiple high velocity systems and duct them directly to the top of the racks of equipment. 20 tons of cooling in a 12 x 12 space. 240,000 BTU/hr. Over 70,000 Watts. 240 V 3-phase. No one said jammers had great efficiency. We could barely hold 75 F in the room with everything operating. An interior room in a building with multiple floors and offices. Smaller comms rooms with a single Mr. Slim in a 10 x 10 room had plenty of noise. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 9:36:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Could you tell me what the difference in the mini-split and a conventional central unit is?
I guess I'm lost. Also, I've been thinking of having central air installed in my house. It already has a central heater in the small basement / work space, but the tech that put the new heater in years ago said all of the duct needs replaced in order to use AC. Which sort of system should I look into? Which has better reliability, efficiency, and can be repaired easily years down the road? |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 10:07:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Air movement IS EQUIPMENT NOISE. I installed hundreds of them in communications equipment rooms. They manage to swamp out the noise from a couple of six foot equipment racks with multiple fans. On one very large place we had to use multiple high velocity systems and duct them directly to the top of the racks of equipment. 20 tons of cooling in a 12 x 12 space. 240,000 BTU/hr. Over 70,000 Watts. 240 V 3-phase. No one said jammers had great efficiency. We could barely hold 75 F in the room with everything operating. An interior room in a building with multiple floors and offices. Smaller comms rooms with a single Mr. Slim in a 10 x 10 room had plenty of noise. York click bait: 
I know there are better units and well designed duct systems. No argument there... But the mini-splits( wall hung) off the shelf, are nearly silent unless they're in catch up mode. I don't know how the new tray systems sound? |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 9:40:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could you tell me what the difference in the mini-split and a conventional central unit is? I guess I'm lost. Conventional units use one indoor unit to cool air then the cold is moved around the house via duct work. Mini splits use up 8 indoor units (on one outdoor unit) to cool the rooms you use. Mini spilts use invertor driven compressors Also, I've been thinking of having central air installed in my house. It already has a central heater in the small basement / work space, but the tech that put the new heater in years ago said all of the duct needs replaced in order to use AC.I would have the duct work sized first Which sort of system should I look into?I would look at the highest SEER rated units for your budget. At least a invertor driven compressor. Which has better reliability, efficiency, and can be repaired easily years down the road? If you have approved dealer install Daikin or Mitsubishi units you will get a 10 YEAR warranty on parts. Mini splits (Variable Refrigerant Flow) are going to have the highest SEER ratings. Could you call Joe Blow AC to service your VRF system? You might get lucky, but I make a living at cleaning other peoples mess up on VRF. Get the highest SEER unit you can afford because electric rate are not going down anytime soon. Also a lot of areas have rebates for the VRF systems |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#29]
I have a multi head Mitsubishi system. Two floor units upstairs and a ducted unit downstairs. The system replaced an electric forced air system. Utility bills have dropped significantly (50%+) and the house has never been more comfortable. The system is very quiet, but it is audible, barely. I can't hear the outdoor unit through the 1940s un-insulated wall. It's a variable speed system, so on very hot or very cold days it will run at a much higher speed. This is when it's most audible.
I'm an HVAC contractor and I installed the system myself. I have two regrets: 1) The hyper heat models came out a few months after I installed my system. Should have waited for hyper heat. 2) Using one system to do different levels. The auto change over function is a little frustrating. If I set one unit to cooling the other units need to be set to cooling to get it to change over, even if the other units are satisfied at their heat temperature. If you're paying somebody to install it go with the Mitsubishi or Daikin. If you're going to DIY, you can save money ordering a lesser brand online, but parts and service may be hard to come by. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 12:18:50 PM EDT
[#30]
I was not commenting on outside (condenser in AC mode) noise.
Inside noise is worse. Mini-splits often have a decent amount of 'brand specific' engineered parts. Think of them as the laptop version of a computer. To cram everything in (especially to the indoor portion) they have parts made for them (or make them themselves in a captive subsidiary). While TXVs are common now their 'throttling curve' is not always the same. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 12:48:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This! I'm impressed with their systems. I bought the 18,000 btu model with 21 seer. Plan to heat with it too, since it works down to 5. As far as the DIY install, it is not that hard. Pioneer sells very cheap gauge and hoses ($20) and you can get a compressor run vacuum pump from Harbor Freight for about $20. Pioneer included a flare fitting sealer to help make sure the connections sealed the first time. A similar Mitsubishi system would have cost about double the Pioneer cost. ETA: In the third world they don't pull a vacuum, they just open refrigerant into the lines, vent the line at the other end with 4 short bursts before opening that valve to the compressor. We can't do that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bought a cheap $600 Pioneer, installed it myself (never did it before), works great. Not too hard, just make sure you evacuate the lines with a vacuum pump the lines properly. This! I'm impressed with their systems. I bought the 18,000 btu model with 21 seer. Plan to heat with it too, since it works down to 5. As far as the DIY install, it is not that hard. Pioneer sells very cheap gauge and hoses ($20) and you can get a compressor run vacuum pump from Harbor Freight for about $20. Pioneer included a flare fitting sealer to help make sure the connections sealed the first time. A similar Mitsubishi system would have cost about double the Pioneer cost. ETA: In the third world they don't pull a vacuum, they just open refrigerant into the lines, vent the line at the other end with 4 short bursts before opening that valve to the compressor. We can't do that. The venturi type vacuum thing at HF is shit. Any auto parts store will let you borrow a vacuum pump with all kinds of adapters. The deposit is usually less than the replacement cost... 
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Posted: 9/5/2016 4:47:37 PM EDT
[#32]
The venturi type vacuum thing at HF is shit. Cannot achieve enough vacuum for any refrigeration system. Learn what 'microns' are (for vacuum). Micro inches of mercury. Takes an electronic gauge. Very old ones used a special electronic tube. No flex hoses for this. Metal lines oly. The micron gauge I use can read leakage through a flex hose. Hooked up using a length of copper line with a hard cap on the other side. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 4:54:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Mitsubishi is best .
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Posted: 9/11/2016 2:47:15 AM EDT
[#34]
we have an LG unit at the cabin. no complaints
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Posted: 9/11/2016 9:30:25 AM EDT
[#35]
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Mitsubishi is best . Because of this thread, just bought a 3-way unit we're installing Monday into a newly renovated assembly area. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:39:56 AM EDT
[#36]
mitsubishi has the worst customer support and hard to get parts when you need them. My local supply house dropped them since they had many cases of problems that mitsubishi dragged their feet about fixing.
Someone said buy a japanese made unit. That is correct...point me to one thats made in japan. I just purchased 2 LG's because they are mode in Korea and not freaking china. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 12:33:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
mitsubishi has the worst customer support and hard to get parts when you need them. My local supply house dropped them since they had many cases of problems that mitsubishi dragged their feet about fixing. Someone said buy a japanese made unit. That is correct...point me to one thats made in japan. I just purchased 2 LG's because they are mode in Korea and not freaking china. That's strange. We sell Mitsubishi. The local distributor has plenty of in stock parts and a training center. Mitsubishi tech support has always been extremely helpful. |
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