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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:16:12 AM EDT
Like box joints, finger joints and dovetails. What's a good wood to practice on? I'm spending all my spare cash on decent tools, and I realise that my first tries are going to be junk for a while. So what's hard enough to practise on yet cheap enough that I won't cry about scrapping it?
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 3:38:56 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm no expert, and haven't really experimented much in this realm, but I've been told MDF is a good candidate as it does not dull the cutting edges quickly, and could be good for mock up type purposes only.  Can't say with any certainty though.

Zach
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 4:02:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Poplar and pine would be my choice.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 4:27:50 AM EDT
[#3]
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Poplar and pine would be my choice.
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Pine is probably the best wood for practicing dovetails, especially if you plan on using chisels.  If your chisels aren't sharp, you will crush the wood fibers before you cut them, which will cause breaks and tear-outs.  In that way, pine is actually less forgiving than most hardwoods.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 4:32:50 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Pine is probably the best wood for practicing dovetails, especially if you plan on using chisels.  If your chisels aren't sharp, you will crush the wood fibers before you cut them, which will cause breaks and tear-outs.  In that way, pine is actually less forgiving than most hardwoods.
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Poplar and pine would be my choice.


Pine is probably the best wood for practicing dovetails, especially if you plan on using chisels.  If your chisels aren't sharp, you will crush the wood fibers before you cut them, which will cause breaks and tear-outs.  In that way, pine is actually less forgiving than most hardwoods.


Yep, the most dangerous tool in a shop is a dull tool
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 10:08:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Pine, poplar.  Ash was really cheap for a while, but I think the price may have been going up (emerald ash borer problem so lots of trees were harvested before they sat dead for too long).  I wouldn't recommend any engineered or manufactured wood product.  If you've got a thickness planer, pieces of old pallet wood are good for practicing on too.  Its usually some sort of hardwood.  So what if its not 3/4" after you take all the nails out and plane it.

Box joint/finger joints the same thing, or at least to me.  Rocker sells a nice router jig.  Woodsmith I think has one that works on a table saw or router.
Dovetails, i now prefer doing with hand tools - joinery/back saws, maybe a coping saw, chisels, bevel square, striking knife and a marking gauge.  Smetimes they turn out air tight.  It takes a lot of practice.   Good lighting is really importantant too.  Get some videos by Chris Schwarz, Roy Underhill (almost all his seasons on dvd now - get the newer ones for better info) and  especially Frank Clausz.  I spent lots of money way back on a nice Leigh dovetail/mortising jig.  It is nice but very finicky and time consuming to set up.  I suppose if I had to make dozens of idenitcal drawers it might make sense to use it.  To make a few sets of dovetails its just as quick to do it by hand.   And the geometry/angle of the pins and tails looks better.   And quieter, with little mess compared to a router.
Motise and tenon - it depends on the project if I use power or hand tools.  How many to make, how big they are.  Sometimes its a combination - forstner bit and then clean up with chisel on mortise.  Sawing tenon cheeks by hand is not too bad.

I like western saws best.  If you use a really sharp and properly sharpend back saw, it will cut as well as any mass produced japanese style saw, and maybe better in some applications.  And the teeth don't break, and they can be resharpened.  Unless you buy a super expensive hand made from some japanese master craftsman, the blades cannot be resharpened on the mass produced ones because of how they are hardened. And the hood saws usually have to get sent back to japan to sharpen.  Its better to buy a new saw if you can.  There are several makers, but I really like the ones from Bad Axe Tools.  They will also sharpen an old Disston if you find one on ebay.  Get something like a no4, or a small dovetail saw.  nice ones can go for a lot of moeny, and few come sharp and ready to use.  Just make sure you are getting a straight blade, and it isn't pitted too bad.  There are a few other guys out there that you can send saws to for resharpening.  Its really difficult to retooth an old saw right off - some of these guys have retoothing machines, and they they do the final sharpening by hand.
For chisels, I like old buck bros, witherby, barton, white ones (many will say "cast steel"). Many of the james swan chisels I've bought do not seem to have a good temper, or maybe they did not use a high enough carbon steel.  Some of the old stanley everlast chisels are good too (wooden handled ones).  All can be found on ebay on the antique tool section.   You only need a few widths to get started, and won't cost too much. - lot less than new ones from lie-nielsen, and far better than almost any other new chisel you will find.  Also, the not so old blue handled Marples (UK) are pretty good.  The new made ones not so much.  Also common on ebay.  
The marking gauges can also be found online.  The striking knife you are better off buying new - many sources including Lee Valley to much more expaeice ones.  And get a nice .3mm mechanical pencil to highlight the knife lines for your saw of chisel cuts.
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 12:12:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Awesome, more tools to buy. Do you have an opinion on the Veritas saws? Also I need a good miter saw, electric or old school?
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 1:07:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 1:35:52 AM EDT
[#8]
No sir, but I will check it out.
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 1:57:02 AM EDT
[#9]
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Awesome, more tools to buy. Do you have an opinion on the Veritas saws? Also I need a good miter saw, electric or old school?
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I have a set of Veritas carcass saws, and they are very nice saws for the money.  You can spend 3-4x as much for a more traditional looking backsaw....but will they cut any better? More accurately? I doubt it.  In general, I prefer my Japanese saws for most jobs, but western backsaws are really a pleasure to use.  I need to practice more with both.  I have an old Craftsman panel saw that works great, so the only saw left on my list is a small dovetail saw.  I really like the looks of the PAX 1776 dovetail saw, I'll probably be getting the 8" model.

There's so many great tools out there, it's incredible.  And, at times I wonder what's more important to some people - using tools, or collecting them.  You can do both, of course.  But, I think it's a point of pride to do quality work with as few tools as possible.  I use power tools all day at work, but hardly ever in my home workshop.  For about the same price, you can get a 10" Dewalt miter saw, or a couple of nice traditional back saws. Do you enjoy using handsaws? Or do you just want to get the wood cut, and move on? All personal choices.
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 7:54:44 AM EDT
[#10]
I have a PC miter saw with laser sighting.  I thinks its long since discontinued.  It works OK.  But the laser line that marks will the kerf will be is touchy, and once this tube burns out, I will not try to replace it.  It was really expensive last time.

Also have a Millers Falls miter saw box and a old Stanley 150.  I am using the Stanley 150 mostly right now.  Much safer with short pieces, not much noise, and just a little pile of dust in one spot.   The cut edge is pretty smooth so not much clean up is needed, and accurate once you make adjustments (should only have to do one time).  Takes very little time to set up, and with a sharp saw, a few seconds to make the cut.  Bought both on ebay, for not too much.  The 150 was a little rusty in spots, cleaned every thing up with wire brushes that didn't have the japanning on it.  The millers falls box will make cuts past 45 degrees, but it also takes a bigger saw with a deeper depth from the back.  Some of them can be hard to find saws that will work.  I recommend the 150 to start.
I have tried the LV/veritas saws at shows.  They will serve you well.

I would not buy a generic PAX saw (and there are other like them such as Garlick/Lynx). Those handles are not made for human hands, that's for sure.  The 1776 looks better.  Old saw handles like early disstons or jacksons weren't about looks alone, ergonomics and stroke were very important considerations.  New made english tools for the most part don't hold a candle to their older products.  Get a LV saw, if you can spend more, get a grammercy, lie nielsen, or Bad axe.  There are a few other saw makers but some are very slow to deliver and much more expensive.  No experience with adria saws.
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 8:30:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Here's a good Frank Klausz video.  If you ver have a chance to see him in person, do it.  He probably doesn't go to as many woodworking shows as he used to.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/lrAAglKLPh8 [/youtube]


This link will get you there too
http://woodandshop.com/frank-klausz-dovetail-tutorial-pins-first/

I guess I can't embed videos unless I am a member (I'll spend my money on guns and tools instead)
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 12:31:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Dovetail jigs help a novice make professional-looking joinery - just follow the instructions.  The thing is, if you use the jig and router, you will never learn to hand cut dovetails.

Finger joints (aka, box joint) are made using a very simple jig and a table saw.  You can also buy finger joint jigs for use with a router (like a dovetail jig).

Link to Box Joint technique

I have found a splined miter joint to be very useful, too, for making jewelery boxes, etc.  They are easy to make and the exterior of the joint is a smooth and continuous wood profile (does not show any joinery) but is stronger than a plain miter joint.
Link Posted: 10/25/2014 2:53:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Plain old #2 pine boards from the home store.
Pick through the cheap ones and you can get at least short length of knot free clear wood to practice on.

And as noted, pine (and many softer woods) are VERY unforgiving of less than perfectly sharp tools.
It also dents easily in handling (a PITA) for 'real' pieces that puts a premium on learning handling and good techniques.

A bump that red oak (or harder woods) might brush off without a mark can dent pine.

Keep in mind that 'hardwood' refers to deciduous trees as oppsed to trees with evergreens.
Balsa is a hardwood.
Southern yellow pine is a softwood.
While poplar is a hardwood it is well below many softwoods in physical hardness and strength.
It does hold paint better than almost any other wood though.
It is NOT suitable for exterior use though.


Link Posted: 10/25/2014 4:39:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Cool, I'll get some pine boards soon. I'm planning to start with hand tools as I currently have neither a table saw nor a full size router. I have a little trim router that's been good to do a couple of edges so far. But it would take more skills than I currently have to gin up anything like a table for it.

Thanks for the advice guys.

PS. I think I'm going to get one of the Nobex miter saws, I just haven't decided how much I want to spend on it.

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