Kevlar vest - AR15.COM

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Posted: 9/17/2011 4:34:38 PM EDT

Hello guys hopefully you can suffer a few questions here. If this has been gone over a hundred times already or is posted in the wrong spot I apologize and just point me in the right direction. I'm wondering whether it's possible to make my own kevlar inserts. I'm not doing it to save money I just enjoy making things. And so I've been wondering; are the ballistic fabrics available? Is there a resource where I can find how many layers would be needed? Is there a certain way kevlar needs to be sewn or melted or glued? I have a Toyota industrial sail makers sewing machine which would more than suffice sewing layers of kevlar. I'm just wondering how hard it is to procure the knowledge and supplies. I have a background in sail and canvas work, and tailoring; but not with kevlar. I've worked kevlar matting in fiberglass, but never sewn it, and I understand its weave and weight are entirely different from the ballistic kevlar. If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

I have access to any Cordura and I have the knowledge to seam seal for waterproofing if that is required for the kevlar. I plan on making one of these with a collar, shoulders and groin protection.

Posted: 9/17/2011 4:48:33 PM EDT

[#1]

When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

Posted: 9/17/2011 4:48:59 PM EDT

[#2]

You might have more luck here CLICK

and welcome to ARFCOM

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:03:50 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:14:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted in the op
If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

This.

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:19:45 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
You might have more luck here CLICK

and welcome to ARFCOM

Thanks Cujo I'll do some digging over there. Thanks for the welcome.

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:21:24 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted in the op
If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

This.

If you want to make a vest go for it, I wouldn't to rely on a homemade vest for protection. Not unless there was some extensive testing done.

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:25:06 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted in the op
If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

This.

So if anyone has any good reason not to do it, except for the most important one of all, you'd like to hear it? Got it. Good luck to you, I'll stick with armor that carries a rated level of ballistic protection.

Posted: 9/17/2011 5:47:09 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted in the op
If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

This.

So if anyone has any good reason not to do it, except for the most important one of all, you'd like to hear it? Got it. Good luck to you, I'll stick with armor that carries a rated level of ballistic protection.

I'm not asking you to wear the vest. I was asking if anyone here had ever built their own. Definitely stick with what you makes you happy. I never said I wouldn't test any vest I'd make and I'm not planning on ever using it, at least I hope. I will however make sure it exceeds any small arms rating. Testing is what I'm looking forward to the most. I recall reading some time ago the military recalling tens of thousands of level IIIA from a major manufacturer because it wouldn't stop a 9mm. Design flaw. They were all rated at a level of protection you speak of. Every factory has a bad day and home made can be good, very good. Some of the finest craftsmanship I have ever laid hands on have come from home shops.

Posted: 9/17/2011 6:33:09 PM EDT

[#9]

I sometimes see sheets of kevlar on ebay but I think you'll find there are better materials. You might consider buying an old / used sample to get a general idea of the construction (sometimes less than $100 on ebay). Ideally you could contact a company that specializes in the manufacturing of body armor and ask for a tour of their facility or ask to speak with an employee in production. I read somewhere that some large law enforcement agencies were writing contracts that allowed them to inspect the facilities where the body armor they purchased was manufactured.

I really don't see how creating your own body armor is any different than using hand loaded ammunition for self defense or folding your own AK receiver or sewing your on nylon gear. Who knows, you may develop a better way of layering the kevlar (like dragon skin) or develop some other new process that could be beneficial to the industry or find that you can make a comparable product for a cheaper price. Why more people aren't encouraging your efforts is beyond me. No one is being forced to trial your product. All inverters start somewhere and all inventions have prototypes.

Posted: 9/17/2011 7:38:02 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When it comes to something that's purpose is to stop bullets, I'd rather buy it from someone who actually knows what they are doing than try and make one myself.

This.

Posted in the op
If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

This.

So if anyone has any good reason not to do it, except for the most important one of all, you'd like to hear it? Got it. Good luck to you, I'll stick with armor that carries a rated level of ballistic protection.

I'm not asking you to wear the vest. I was asking if anyone here had ever built their own. Definitely stick with what you makes you happy. I never said I wouldn't test any vest I'd make and I'm not planning on ever using it, at least I hope. I will however make sure it exceeds any small arms rating. Testing is what I'm looking forward to the most. I recall reading some time ago the military recalling tens of thousands of level IIIA from a major manufacturer because it wouldn't stop a 9mm. Design flaw. They were all rated at a level of protection you speak of. Every factory has a bad day and home made can be good, very good. Some of the finest craftsmanship I have ever laid hands on have come from home shops.

OP, not sure what route you want to go, make a vest for yourself or try to build a better mousetrap. I don't miss wearing a vest 8+ hrs a day in all extremes, heat and cold, but I always wished that I had a lighter/cooler one to wear. Maybe place a post in the LEO section here and ask for ideas from LEO's about what features they want in a vest.

Posted: 9/17/2011 9:22:52 PM EDT

[#11]

OP, not sure what route you want to go

Just want to have some fun and make something I can be proud of. I'm an insufferable tinkerer and always need a project. I've built everything from ultralight airplanes to shearling suits for winter flying. I do taxidermy and like to think of myself as a semipro machinist and I was a professional sail maker for years. I specialized in the type of canvas work shown below for years. Rest assured I can tailor a vest. A badass vest. Can I get the materials is another question. I believe since most vest seem to have a vapor barrier that ballistic kevlar doesn't like sweat. I'm guessing however and there in lies the needed research.

Posted: 9/18/2011 2:59:57 AM EDT

[#12]

I think you should do well then. Good luck and keep us posted.

Posted: 9/18/2011 3:20:59 AM EDT

[#13]

It's not that big of a deal. You just need the right sewing machine and something to cut the kevlar, it's a bitch. Just lay the fabric layers at alternating angle along the warp and weft and sew them together, Then cut out your pattern and sew that together with a layer of para-pac on top and the needed velcro straps.

I know a guy who was contracted to build them.

Posted: 9/18/2011 9:56:44 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It's not that big of a deal. You just need the right sewing machine and something to cut the kevlar, it's a bitch. Just lay the fabric layers at alternating angle along the warp and weft and sew them together, Then cut out your pattern and sew that together with a layer of para-pac on top and the needed velcro straps.

I know a guy who was contracted to build them.

Awesome that's what I wanted to hear. Now I just need to source some kevlar. Thanks Captain

Posted: 9/18/2011 10:00:03 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's not that big of a deal. You just need the right sewing machine and something to cut the kevlar, it's a bitch. Just lay the fabric layers at alternating angle along the warp and weft and sew them together, Then cut out your pattern and sew that together with a layer of para-pac on top and the needed velcro straps.

I know a guy who was contracted to build them.

Awesome that's what I wanted to hear. Now I just need to source some kevlar. Thanks Captain

Maybe buy one of the old "flak vests" from the 80's, use it as a guinea pig.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:27:54 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's not that big of a deal. You just need the right sewing machine and something to cut the kevlar, it's a bitch. Just lay the fabric layers at alternating angle along the warp and weft and sew them together, Then cut out your pattern and sew that together with a layer of para-pac on top and the needed velcro straps.

I know a guy who was contracted to build them.

Awesome that's what I wanted to hear. Now I just need to source some kevlar. Thanks Captain

Maybe buy one of the old "flak vests" from the 80's, use it as a guinea pig.

I'm going to pattern my vest from a modern plate carrier only using kevlar all the way round. I've found a source for the exterior material and webbing. The shell will be 1000 denier Cordura in marpat. The kevlar is trickier and must be tested but I have found sources. This week I'm going to call around and get some prices and options. There are different weaves. Broad weave for bullet expansion allowing tighter weaves to catch the bullet and so on. I'm also going to get some Spectra and Zylon and whatever else I can find. Turns out after some research, anyone can make body armor. The trick is how light can you make it. So it looks like it's going to be a lot of (very fun) testing with different layers and patterns. I'm going to use modeling clay as a target and set about trying to stop a 7.62 at around 75 yards. I'll be happy if I can stop a .40S&W at 10 feet though.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:37:19 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I'm going to pattern my vest from a modern plate carrier only using kevlar all the way round. I've found a source for the exterior material and webbing. The shell will be 1000 denier Cordura in marpat. The kevlar is trickier and must be tested but I have found sources. This week I'm going to call around and get some prices and options. There are different weaves. Broad weave for bullet expansion allowing tighter weaves to catch the bullet and so on. I'm also going to get some Spectra and Zylon and whatever else I can find. Turns out after some research, anyone can make body armor. The trick is how light can you make it. So it looks like it's going to be a lot of (very fun) testing with different layers and patterns. I'm going to use modeling clay as a target and set about trying to stop a 7.62 at around 75 yards. I'll be happy if I can stop a .40S&W at 10 feet though.[/div]

I wish you luck sir. You do realize that most bullet proof vests are rated to stop low velocity handgun ammo right? We have ceramic plates for the large stuff for a reason.

If you can make it happen with just cloth though you are a man among men!

Posted: 9/18/2011 6:47:41 PM EDT

[#18]

Go for it!!!

People have too much trust to other human beings. I've learned taking the time to learn how to do something and doing it yourself is always better than relying on a disgruntled M-F minimum wage worker. What if you purchased a vest that was made at 4:30pm on a Friday before a 3 day weekend? Yeah, i'm sure they were thinking about detail on that vest. Lets not talk about 8am Monday vests.

Quoted:
Hello guys hopefully you can suffer a few questions here. If this has been gone over a hundred times already or is posted in the wrong spot I apologize and just point me in the right direction. I'm wondering whether it's possible to make my own kevlar inserts. I'm not doing it to save money I just enjoy making things. And so I've been wondering; are the ballistic fabrics available? Is there a resource where I can find how many layers would be needed? Is there a certain way kevlar needs to be sewn or melted or glued? I have a Toyota industrial sail makers sewing machine which would more than suffice sewing layers of kevlar. I'm just wondering how hard it is to procure the knowledge and supplies. I have a background in sail and canvas work, and tailoring; but not with kevlar. I've worked kevlar matting in fiberglass, but never sewn it, and I understand its weave and weight are entirely different from the ballistic kevlar. If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

I have access to any Cordura and I have the knowledge to seam seal for waterproofing if that is required for the kevlar. I plan on making one of these with a collar, shoulders and groin protection.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1221-IMG1.jpeg

Posted: 9/19/2011 12:58:43 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Go for it!!!

People have too much trust to other human beings. I've learned taking the time to learn how to do something and doing it yourself is always better than relying on a disgruntled M-F minimum wage worker. What if you purchased a vest that was made at 4:30pm on a Friday before a 3 day weekend? Yeah, i'm sure they were thinking about detail on that vest. Lets not talk about 8am Monday vests.

Quoted:
Hello guys hopefully you can suffer a few questions here. If this has been gone over a hundred times already or is posted in the wrong spot I apologize and just point me in the right direction. I'm wondering whether it's possible to make my own kevlar inserts. I'm not doing it to save money I just enjoy making things. And so I've been wondering; are the ballistic fabrics available? Is there a resource where I can find how many layers would be needed? Is there a certain way kevlar needs to be sewn or melted or glued? I have a Toyota industrial sail makers sewing machine which would more than suffice sewing layers of kevlar. I'm just wondering how hard it is to procure the knowledge and supplies. I have a background in sail and canvas work, and tailoring; but not with kevlar. I've worked kevlar matting in fiberglass, but never sewn it, and I understand its weave and weight are entirely different from the ballistic kevlar. If anyone has any experience or some good reasons why this is a good or bad idea besides money, safety, and skill I'd like to here them. Many thanks.

I have access to any Cordura and I have the knowledge to seam seal for waterproofing if that is required for the kevlar. I plan on making one of these with a collar, shoulders and groin protection.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1221-IMG1.jpeg

My Dad was an insurance adjuster for 30 years. He told me a story about an insured that bought a new car, early 70's, and they had a rattle in one of the front fenders. Took months but the dealership finally took the fender off and lo and behold there was a beer can inside the frame. They did some checking and the car was built late on a Fri afternoon.

Posted: 9/19/2011 9:33:45 AM EDT

[#20]

I'm pretty sure a customer of mine makes ballistic fabrics. Not sure if they'd sell to an individual, but check out Lincoln Fabrics, Ltd in Canada. Not sure if their Alabama location does ballistic fabrics or not.

K

Posted: 9/19/2011 11:28:43 AM EDT

[#21]

I never said I wouldn't test any vest I'd make

You understand actually testing a vest is considered a destructive test?

The manufacturers have the ability to make them over and over exactly the same exact way, allowing only a few to be tested to verify they work as designed.

Posted: 9/19/2011 12:25:22 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's not that big of a deal. You just need the right sewing machine and something to cut the kevlar, it's a bitch. Just lay the fabric layers at alternating angle along the warp and weft and sew them together, Then cut out your pattern and sew that together with a layer of para-pac on top and the needed velcro straps.

I know a guy who was contracted to build them.

Awesome that's what I wanted to hear. Now I just need to source some kevlar. Thanks Captain

Maybe buy one of the old "flak vests" from the 80's, use it as a guinea pig.

I'm going to pattern my vest from a modern plate carrier only using kevlar all the way round. I've found a source for the exterior material and webbing. The shell will be 1000 denier Cordura in marpat. The kevlar is trickier and must be tested but I have found sources. This week I'm going to call around and get some prices and options. There are different weaves. Broad weave for bullet expansion allowing tighter weaves to catch the bullet and so on. I'm also going to get some Spectra and Zylon and whatever else I can find. Turns out after some research, anyone can make body armor. The trick is how light can you make it. So it looks like it's going to be a lot of (very fun) testing with different layers and patterns. I'm going to use modeling clay as a target and set about trying to stop a 7.62 at around 75 yards. I'll be happy if I can stop a .40S&W at 10 feet though.

Zylon, huh? Good luck with that.

I applaud your efforts. You will learn a bunch about stopping bullets if you build and test your designs. You won't be using Zylon, though.

Posted: 9/19/2011 5:11:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

I'm pretty sure a customer of mine makes ballistic fabrics. Not sure if they'd sell to an individual, but check out Lincoln Fabrics, Ltd in Canada. Not sure if their Alabama location does ballistic fabrics or not.

K

The company I work for gets a lot of material from them. The other big names are Honeywell, DSM, and TexTech. Depending on the type of material, price for bulk rolls ranges from $15 to over $300 a linear yard.

I work in the R&D department and get to make up and shoot the new designs that we are looking to get NIJ certified.

Varying ply count and stitching is pretty much the name of the game. Being able to blast them "on the fly" is really handy too.

CHRIS

Posted: 9/19/2011 7:04:27 PM EDT

[#24]

I made a bullet resistant koozie once, would not have wanted to hold it when it stopped the .22lr.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 9/20/2011 8:26:13 AM EDT

[#25]

Make sure you are using kevlar thread as well, as the abrasive nature of kevlar will wear nylon thread out quick fast and in a hurry

Posted: 9/21/2011 7:48:22 AM EDT

[#26]

I don't think there is much stitching of the ballistic cloth, most seem to have some sort of thermal bonding or something else. IIRC there are generally around 48 layers of ballistic cloth and they are sealed inside an exterior waterproof cover to protect from moisture. The carrier is where the sewing will come into play. If it was me I would consider buying the ballistic panels and then making a carrier to your specs.

Posted: 9/26/2011 6:25:40 PM EDT

[#27]

Could you avoid stitching altogether by injecting the kevlar with polypropylene? That would make it heat moldable and you could form it to your body

Posted: 9/27/2011 6:14:05 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Could you avoid stitching altogether by injecting the kevlar with polypropylene? That would make it heat moldable and you could form it to your body

And likely result in its failure when a bullet impacts.

Even Kevlar soaked with water fails (the reason it is sealed in plastic to prevent water absorption).

Posted: 9/27/2011 9:10:21 PM EDT

[#29]

Out of pure curiosity, what size round will that boat canopy stop? It looks like it's pretty well made.

Posted: 9/28/2011 3:06:56 AM EDT

[#30]

You used to be able to buy various weaves of Kevlar from aircraft supply places, (Aircraft Spruce and Specialty, for example). I remember it was a bitch to cut, and very hard on shears. Eventually they came out with shears coated in titanium nitride to make them last more than a half-project.

As to making it yourself and having it work? I think that's how Rich Davis started out. Homerolled ballistic nylon vest.
I'd figure it's like building your own airplane. Nobody to blame but yourself if it decides to shed a wing cause you went cheap on fasteners or something.

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