NOONE is saying anyone knows the exactly day or time 🤦‍♂️

I remain unconvinced that Christ is going to return to Earth twice.  Nowhere in the scriptures does it say this.  It does say the the church will not be appointed unto wrath...that is, his church will be spared when he returns and will not suffer his wrath.

What I do worry about is if millions of Christians, who think that they will be taken up before the antichrist makes his appearance, will not recognize the man of sin and take the mark.  They will think this can't be him because the rapture hasn't happened yet....hence, the very elect will be fooled by the beast.

It's best to spend our efforts on preparing our heart, making ourselves pure, and seeking the Holy Spirit to strengthen us during any tribulations that we may have to face.

Correct. It never “explicitly “ states it. Clearly some
Thing is “lost in translation “ or left open for debate for some reason. I don’t know the reason.  

Buuuuuuuuuuuut, the “wrath “ and the “comfort “
Verses imho are a big clue. There is no comfort in getting martyred. Sure it could be over quick, but you still gettin killed.

Oh, a different anecdote I heard was aboot the standard length of a Jewish Wedding. Guess how many years?  Yep. 7. Soooooo, this “red wedding “ as the No Harpazo camp want is Gods Wrath being poured out on the church??!  Then what’s the marriage supper of the lamb??!  

I agree, these concepts and ideas are nebulous and strange, but I think jts weird how folks don’t want any “blessed  hope”

Every Christian in Japan was rounded up and killed in the 15th century.  The communists in the USSR would shoot anyone publicly preaching the gospel, the communist government shut down 99% of churches in the country.  In Nigeria, Boko Haram will execute any man, woman or child if they find out they're Christian.  To think that it can't happen to you is a special kind of naivety.

You are attached to western comfort. You're easily led into bad theology by deluding yourself that you're immune to bad times.

Roman’s 5:9 was just brought up In here. Sounds pretty convincing

https://www.youtube.com/live/t-FxuZ11sok?si=R3QAVVjdQrqBvAg2

Excellent examples of martyrdom. That’s very different than Gods wrath.

With regard to the "rapture" I say this:

The rapture as people describe and believe it, is the members of the church meeting Christ in the air.  

It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, but remember this if there is a rapture:  Christians meet Christ in the air, in a visible taking away.

If a non earthly, articulate, miracle performing person shows up in space ships or however wanting to take you away, IT'S NOT THE RAPTURE, AND HE ISN'T CHRIST.  Don't go with him.

In the second coming, not the "rapture", when Jesus lands on Mt Zion, an earthquake like no other shakes the world and splits the mountain, and 7000 people are consumed in that crack in the earth.  Supposedly, the House of Judah will be backed up against the mountain, out of ammo, and out of hope.  They will see his wounds and realize they rejected him, and fall down and worship him.

Also, there will be two witnesses in Israel for 3.5 years, who will be killed and all the world will watch their bodies for 3 days.  They will resurrect after 3 days, and ascend to heaven.  They will pass Jesus on his way down.  

When someone comes, and doesn't land on Mt. Zion and split the ground, it's not Jesus.  Even when he pulls fire down from heaven, it's not Jesus.  


Please keep that in mind and know the difference.  Don't be fooled.  

Really great points.  Sometimes folks like to shoe horn false Christ’s right now, and there is some, maybe? Climate change, jw, Mormonism (if you know all about the weird parts) catholic church(not necessarily the people
In it, they can have simple faith and not be part of the overarching “weirdness “). Etc. but like you say, it’s gonna get weirder.  And I feel like we on the brink of that. They kinda “turned off” scientisim, materialism, humanism around covid and are fixing to turn on paganism

The rapture could be nothing more than, when Christ does return, those on Earth that are believers will be spared the wrath of the Lamb.  The prophets, apostles, Christians throughout the ages and even Jesus himself were not spared from tribulation.  We shouldn't expect to either.  As Christ said, "take up your cross and follow me."  I can only hope that if and when the time comes that I stand up and proclaim that Christ is King; Lord of the Heavens and the Earth.  Keep an open mind brothers...expect the worse but hope for the best.

Yes, but wrath of lamb is something different than “day of lord “. And the whole point of tribulation is not necessary for church to go through. I mean I’m not gonna go to blows over something I can’t prove…

I’m a pre millennial rapture guy but this butchering of the scripture is just.


Op you need to stop watching so many YouTube prophecy grifters.

What’s meant isn’t that hard to understand, heck a 3rd grader could understand the text plainly as written.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,


This part of the verse means you should take heed to their word of prophecy. That means pay attention to or take notice of.

as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,

This is an example of what the prophecy is like. If you were in total darkness and saw a light you would be drawn to it. You would take notice of the light and pay attention to it.



until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

This is talking about salvation. Jesus is the day star. The message here is take heed to the things being said about Jesus because the world is in utter darkness, you individually are in darkness. Jesus Christ, the truth about him, what we call the Gospel is the light that shines in darkness, take heed to it, think on it, search it out. The day dawning is when you believe and step out the darkness and into the light.


We need to look at the rest of the chapter.


20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

You’re prophecy grifter has a private interpretation. Anyone who is giving you secret hidden knowledge has a private interpretation.



21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. prophecy is of God and points to Jesus Christ the light of the world.

Peter is saying the Old Testament prophecies point to Jesus Christ as the light of the world and that he, the other apostles touched, walked with a spoke to Jesus Christ and are witnesses to the fact that he is the Christ he is the light of the world.

- If you believe in the future rapture of the church, you must also conclude that the blood of Christ has been powerless for nearly two-thousand years.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all SLEEP, but we will all be changed (1 Corinthians 15:51)

- Consider the above verse where Paul confirms even years after the death of Christ that people still sleep in the grave when they die, but he is also saying that some of his audience would live to see the fulfillment of Matthew 24. In Matthew 24 Jesus promises to gather his elect within 1-Generation. The reason these things occur within 1-generation is because those of that generation are eyewitnesses of the victory of Christ, and their testimony will be presented in Heaven.

- Since the writings of Paul indicate that those that had died in Christ were asleep during the time he was authoring most of the New Testament we must define what event occurred that broke this chain of sleep and how they were brought into Heaven to provide their testimony as proof along side the blood of Christ. The event of their gathering is described in Matthew 24 and their testimony in Heaven is described in Revelation 12.

- If (those who were witnesses to the miracles of Jesus and his victory of the cross, those workers of the vineyard who receive their reward before the rest of us at the end of that day, those elect first fruits that were the first to believe in Christ), if they were not taken by Christ within 1-generation, then by what means did they awake from their sleep and provide their testimony in Heaven? If they are still asleep and not in Heaven, then the Blood of Christ has yet to be presented as evidence! Thus, Satan would still be before the throne of God even to this day, and the blood of Christ would have yet to reveal its power in Heaven. Therefore, all of our loved ones would still be asleep in their graves.

- However, by the below verse we understand that those dead in Christ helped conquer Satan in our past! Thus the period of sleep of those dead in Christ ended when Christ resurrected them some time after Paul wrote his epistles. We know their testimony was used during Revelation 12, which the Bible describes in the past tense!

Now have come the salvation and the power and the KINGDOM of OUR GOD, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down  he who accuses them day and night before our God. THEY have conquered him by the BLOOD of the Lamb and by the word of THEIR TESTIMONY. (Revelation 12:10-11)

- Rejoice, that Christ came and gathered these witnesses and that Satan was thrown out of Heaven. For the trumpet that heralds the beginning of his Kingdom has been blown, and now when a believer dies we do not sleep, but rather we enter immediately into His KINGDOM as our deeds are left behind having been nailed to the cross with Christ!

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, "Blessed are the dead those who die in the Lord from this moment on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them." (Revelation 14:13)

More Supporting Verses

- When we study these verses carefully we see the Last Trumpet and the Kingdom Beginning occur within 1-generation, unless a person thinks Christ is still without a kingdom? How can there be any doubt the Trumpet was blown and his Kingdom began? Carefully study the exact same parable found in the below Mark and Matthew verses you will see the Trumpet and Kingdom are related and both occur within 1-generation.

31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:31-34)

29Then Jesus told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. (Luke 21:29-33)

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power." (Mark 9:1)

But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

But Jesus remained silent and made no reply.Again the high priest questioned Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? ""I am," said Jesus, "and you (this particular man) will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62)

- No scripture causes me any doubt that the Trumpet is related to his Kingdom, and thus it was Blown and his Kingdom did come within a generation, therefore the gathering of his elect occurred and his blood and their testimony kicked Satan out of Heaven.

With Love, Jesse

No, I don't, any more than I must conclude the Red Sox must win every world series because I have a certain belief about the return of Jesus.



I don't think the Rapture is considered to be a separate "return" by people who believe in it. I know that I did not when I was a firm believer in the Rapture.

My belief isn’t in two separate returns to earth. He comes in the clouds in the air( not a return to earth) to call his bride unto the marriage.

Also his his first coming happened in two parts. He came as man born of a virgin. Then resurrected from his death and then came and went for 40 or so days.