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Posted: 12/7/2016 10:47:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Define free will.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:01:54 AM EDT
[#2]
I never did understand this argument. "If God loves us why do messed up things happen, ever?" Really? So God's supposed to step in and magically make the things we find horribly offensive disappear?
Things like child rape are alluded to in the bible. Ever since I was a kid, I wondered about a certain passage in Revelations which reads something to the effect of "their sons will inherit the sins of their fathers for generations." For a while I thought about that and wondered how I could be held responsible for the choices my ancestors made. Then as I grew older I'd hear more and more about victims of abuse and their tendency to abuse others as they became older; crap begets crap. Then it became clearer. Not everyone can be saved. Some people are begotten from pure evil and will never know salvation as we understand it on earth. No chance for getting to know Christ and as far as anyone knows, damned from birth. Personally, I like to think God takes such kids on a case-by-case basis, but what do I know? I'm just all the more thankful that I am cognizant and was raised by a loving household. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:09:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Been there done that. (The faith thing) walked away for many years.
Thank God (literally) that he woke me up and brought me back into his fold. I pray you change your mind before you die OP. IMO there is a war going on between good and evil and good wins in the end so choose your side. The losing side ends up in hell whether they win or not. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:16:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never did understand this argument. "If God loves us why do messed up things happen, ever?" Really? So God's supposed to step in and magically make the things we find horribly offensive disappear? Things like child rape are alluded to in the bible. Ever since I was a kid, I wondered about a certain passage in Revelations which reads something to the effect of "their sons will inherit the sins of their fathers for generations." For a while I thought about that and wondered how I could be held responsible for the choices my ancestors made. Then as I grew older I'd hear more and more about victims of abuse and their tendency to abuse others as they became older; crap begets crap. Then it became clearer. Not everyone can be saved. Some people are begotten from pure evil and will never know salvation as we understand it on earth. No chance for getting to know Christ and as far as anyone knows, damned from birth. Personally, I like to think God takes such kids on a case-by-case basis, but what do I know? I'm just all the more thankful that I am cognizant and was raised by a loving household. Also check out this book. It is a narration of a former shaman of the Yanomamo tribe in the Amazon. He used to take hallucinogens and commune with "spirits" who were actually demons in disguise. He describes God, called Yano Pada, who he was told by the spirits eats children when they die. In reality, which he discovered later, God was taking those children into Heaven. It's a brutal but powerful book; well worth the read. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:43:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Define free will. The freedom to choose, right or wrong, what our actions or thoughts will be without interference from concepts like fate or destiny. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:24:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The freedom to choose, right or wrong, what our actions or thoughts will be without interference from concepts like fate or destiny. Thanks for the reply. What about influenced by other people, events and abilities? Can they influence our free will? |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:29:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the reply. What about influenced by other people, events and abilities? Can they influence our free will? Absolutely, they can influence our decisions, but the decision is ultimately ours. Even if someone puts a gun to your head you have the choice if something is worth dying for or not. I often ask people for advice, sometimes I heed it, sometimes I take a little piece of it and leave the rest, sometimes I ignore it completely. Their advice does not keep the decision from being mine however. Even with God being all knowing, and knowing what we'll do before hand doesn't effect free will. It's still not pre determined. The best way I've seen this explained was in one of C.S. Lewis' books (I believe it was Mere Christianity but I could be wrong) was that God does not live within time the same way we do. He's in the past present and future simultaneously, because he's the creator. He looks at the picture as a whole, not just in the present time frame the way we do. So while we haven't made a choice yet, he's seeing us approach the choice, make the choice, and live with consequences all at the same time to Him. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:36:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Ok. I just wanted clarity. Thanks
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:44:44 PM EDT
[#9]
What if I told you man had free will? Blaming GOD for horrible events is childish. Man created this world through sin and separation from him. He gave man paradise and we messed it up. If you made the world you are describing, we would all be mindless robots that couldn't choose bad. Evil is real my friend and what you referred to is a manifestation of that evil.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:47:17 PM EDT
[#10]
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The earth isn't under Satan. Mat 28:18. Jesus said ALL authority on heaven and on Earth has been given to Him. Care to show me whe He gave it up? That isn't to say demons and other beings aren't here at work. But Satan doesn't rule the Earth. The " All authority" you are referring to is, he is still GOD and could've destroyed the whole planet if he wanted to. It didn't say he choose to rule this world or be setup on a throne as king. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:50:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Ran into this today, it's relevant:
 Ruth 1:15-22 (Returning to the Promised Land) |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:59:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
<snip> Free will isnt free will if it is known. <snip>. Snipped for brevity. I don't know about you, MrKasab, but as a father of multiple children, I've often found myself in the situation of watching my children make choices, knowing what is going to happen. My knowing what was going to happen didn't make their choices any less of their own. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 2:20:31 PM EDT
[#13]
If you think it's bad now, consider what it might be like had the tomb not been empty! Left To our own animal instincts, there is no morality. Just might makes right. Without the God creator, Christ the Redeemer and the Holy Spirit to bring understanding, we have no moral foundation. God's law gave us that Foundation at creation. We can choose to not follow the way given to us by God, the prophets, Jesus and His Apostles, but chaos (sin) results. Thankfully He is graceful and willing to forgive if we are willing to repent. Do not be led into sin questioning the will of God by the sinfulness of others.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 2:20:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Double Tap.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 2:41:17 PM EDT
[#15]
People rape babys because we let them. We, humans, who know how wrong and horrible that is, and yet we protect pedophiles and all sorts of evil people. We don't hang them from trees. We don't shoot them in their faces. We treat them special, and keep them safe from harm.
God doesn't let those bad things happen. He lets US let those bad things happen. Don't blame him, blame us. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 2:44:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The " All authority" you are referring to is, he is still GOD and could've destroyed the whole planet if he wanted to. It didn't say he choose to rule this world or be setup on a throne as king. I'm not following you... |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 7:20:59 PM EDT
[#17]
It's amazing how the OT, which many modern churches ignore, crushes much of the confusion sown by pop-preachers when understood in it's cultural context:
 Ruth 3:1-5 (Go Down to the Threshing Floor) The Book of Ruth is all about our redemption in Christ, and accurately describes how it comes about, and in so doing, crushes so many popular, but unBiblical beliefs. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 10:24:28 PM EDT
[#18]
What translation is he reading from? The Psalm.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:50:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What translation is he reading from? The Psalm. He usually preaches from the NKJV, although he will study from several, and state when one translation is more accurate than another. |
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Posted: 1/6/2017 11:58:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Maybe a year ago, maybe less, within a month there were three news stories about babies being raped by grown men. Prior to this I always accepted that all things, no matter how bad, served some sort of purpose no matter how horrible. But when I saw these news stories I really couldn't wrap my head around this existing as part of God's plan. Prior when people would ask why a loving and all powerful god would allow such evil to happen I thought that if you accept that there is an all powerful god with the ability to stop evil, you have to accept the fact that maybe there was unspeakable evil that didn't happen because God stopped it before it happened. However, multiple babies being raped made me think, "If this is part of your plan, you really have to let me in on the details cause this is really fucked up." I get that we have free will, but it doesn't make sense within the context of an all powerful god. Free will isnt free will if it is known. I have trouble with the concept that everything we know is some huge cosmic accident, but in the same thought I have trouble accepting there is an all powerful and loving being overseeing us. I can accept the idea of an all powerful being(s) who no longer care about us, I can accept the idea of a less than perfect god (the gods of my ancestors seemed to have shortcomings), I can even accept the idea that we are just an alien petri dish. What I can no longer accept is that we live in a world where a child so young they cant even walk are raped while being overseen by a force that is all loving and all powerful. I post this not as an attack and not to troll, but because I really want an understanding. My struggle with faith isnt unique and I'm sure a few have already been through it before. The other day something really great happened and my first instinct was to thank God for it, then I wondered who I should really be thanking? I wish I had faith in a great god, I see it as a gift and am so thankful my son has it and likely my daughter too as she grows. Why do children get raped? Why do good people die young and bad people live to be old? I don't know exactly why, but I do believe that we have free will. God knowing what we will do isn't the same as him forcing us to do it. How so? If God is outside of time, he see's past, present and future. He see's what actions we will take even years from now, but just because he see's it and knows what we're going to do, he isn't forcing us to do it. Why does God allow evil? I don't know, but it's clear throughout the scriptures that he does allow it, that he even created it. |
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Posted: 1/6/2017 12:12:23 PM EDT
[#21]
That is a very unorthodox view. You have said that God learns, created evil, and that we are gods.
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Posted: 1/6/2017 12:13:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not following you... I meant he was still GOD on an earth that is and was ruled by Satan. He didn't come as a king to get his crown here. He came to redeem man from sin. Satan was cast down to earth from heaven and being the strongest person here, he took control. GOD is very forgiving to even Satan, wishing not to destroy one of his greatest creations. Through one man (Adam) all are born into sin, and through one man (Jesus) all are forgiven. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 4:06:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I believe in God, but not as portrayed in the bible. I believe in an all loving God and that I don't need to be,"saved," to be spared from hell. I don't believe in a hell in any afterlife. There seems to be some evidence to the extent that we are creators of our own heaven or hell, or happiness or misery, as a result of our spiritual condition in this life on earth. I'll continue to pray for guidance, for God's help for others, and for knowledge of God's will. I can acknowledge the possibility that these things are something a God may grant in some instances. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that if there is a God, he wants me to love my fellow man in heart and deed. I know I'll be criticized for expressing my views by Christians, but that's how I see it.
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Posted: 1/13/2017 3:57:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is your understanding of the story behind the whole thing. Adam and Eve were provided a good situation to live but were given rules to live within. Similar to us today: be a law abiding citizen and we get the freedoms and privileges of a United States citizen. Break the rules and you loose those rights and freedoms. In A&Es case they were kicked out of paradise and told they would have to make it on their own. The curse of the original sin is like your kid not obeying the rules at home so you kick them out to make it on their own. Somehow he/she will make it or break it under the harsh conditions of the real world yet will always remember how good they had it at home had they not screwed up. That is basically what God did and we have been on our own to govern ourselves eversince. And since man is far from perfect, many eveil things happen. In a nutshell, A&E chose to obey satan instead of God, so God said fine; get out and govern yourselves see how it works out for you. The curse of the original is we've been left to our own devices to realize we need God. Been governing ourselves for thousands of years so far and its been nothing but fail after fail. Whatever evils happen in this world is a direct result of mans doing and satans influence. Natural consequences so to speak. Thanks to Eve, it's always the woman's fault. ;) |
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Posted: 1/13/2017 4:06:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the reply. What about influenced by other people, events and abilities? Can they influence our free will? You have the free will to choose whether other's actions will influence your actions. Just as you have the free will to choose to break any generational curse that may be in your family. You have the free will to follow Christmas and let him be Lord of your life, and you live put and model that love and leadership to others. Which will of course take care of those 2 things I mentioned. |
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Posted: 1/13/2017 4:07:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the reply. What about influenced by other people, events and abilities? Can they influence our free will? YOU have the free will to determine whether they will influence it or not. |
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Posted: 1/13/2017 5:23:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to Eve, it's always the woman's fault. ;) Except for the fact that Sin entered the world through one man Romans 5:12 I try to find reasons to blame women for everything when I can, but Paul trumps me here 
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Posted: 1/13/2017 7:05:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Yep. had Adam not partaken, sin would have died with Eve.
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Posted: 1/13/2017 9:51:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Interesting thought. Gen 1v28. God tells Adam to have dominion over all animals and fish. So when Adam let the serpent into the garden, he actually comitted his first sin by not kicking him out and establishing his dominion. He let Gods garden become defaced. So sin entered through Adam before eve ate.
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Posted: 1/13/2017 10:16:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting thought. Gen 1v28. God tells Adam to have dominion over all animals and fish. So when Adam let the serpent into the garden, he actually comitted his first sin by not kicking him out and establishing his dominion. He let Gods garden become defaced. So sin entered through Adam before eve ate. There's a "pun" in the Hebrew in regards to the "nakedness" of A&E and the "craftiness" of the serpent - they're based on the same root word (see the links). Then after they ate and Adam fessed up to God, the same root word appears when he says that they realized they were naked.. The implication here is that A&E were not exploitative, and the serpent introduced exploitation, thus they hid because they felt exploitable. |
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Posted: 1/13/2017 11:14:20 PM EDT
[#31]
What's not in the text? I just heard that last week and found it interesting. Hadn't thought of it before. Adam was told to establish dominion. He didn't kick Satan out. Besides eve, only God and a serpent talked to him. He didn't establish dominion, he didn't obey God, he as the head of the family, let his wife get away with sin, without calling her on it, and he chose to eat, in direct violation to Gods command, after doing the other things. I'm not saying this is THE WAY...I just heard it and had not before.
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Posted: 1/13/2017 11:34:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's not in the text? I just heard that last week and found it interesting. Hadn't thought of it before. Adam was told to establish dominion. He didn't kick Satan out. Besides eve, only God and a serpent talked to him. He didn't establish dominion, he didn't obey God, he as the head of the family, let his wife get away with sin, without calling her on it, and he chose to eat, in direct violation to Gods command, after doing the other things. I'm not saying this is THE WAY...I just heard it and had not before. One instructor from Dallas Theological Seminary makes the argument that the serpent was placed there to teach A&E, but they didn't follow the word of God and sinned instead. I can't remember what his justification of this was from the text though, lol. |
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Posted: 1/13/2017 11:48:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Np. I just had never heard that view and found it interesting.
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Posted: 1/14/2017 5:18:13 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm far from a theologist.
But I believe what we perceive as terrible, tragic, unfair, etc, God sees differently. He sees the complete picture through eternity. Babies dying and being mistreated brings black out rage to normal men. I think it's because in our view that innocent baby, in addition to being abused horribly, also just lost its only chance at life. I believe God doesn't see it as that type of loss. He knows, perhaps, that while their families will mourn the loss, that the child was able to skip the mess of this fallen world and go directly to paradise. Or something along those lines. Without free will, loving God and His loving us, would be valueless. |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 1:33:54 AM EDT
[#35]
https://youtu.be/LW7t0fsO8Gk
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Posted: 2/23/2017 3:08:40 AM EDT
[#36]
while we're discussing suffering caused by man, why does this happen?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4245904/Mom-shares-heartbreaking-image-cancer-stricken-son.html 
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Posted: 2/23/2017 8:19:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
while we're discussing suffering caused by man, why does this happen? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4245904/Mom-shares-heartbreaking-image-cancer-stricken-son.html 
I'm sorry and don't have answers to your question. My wife who is one of the most Godly women I've even had the privilege of knowing is dying of cancer as well. Why? Arrogant question. In my life I'm learning that our purpose here is to learn to trust Him in all things.....always.....no matter what. Proverbs 3:5-6. "lean not on our own understanding"..... Jesus set that example for us. Suffering is the norm in a fallen world of sin. I now believe that as Christians we should seek it out to be with and along side of those who are suffering instead of all cozy in our "churches" and insulated. I'm ashamed to say most of my life I have not. Jesus gave us some work to do and most of us won't do it. (Clothe the naked, feed the hungry, visit prisoners, invite strangers in, care for the sick, and make disciples....) Trust requires both an element of uncertainty and unfulfilled expectations. One does not "trust" in things that are certain or accomplished. |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Since this topic is still active I will give an update. I now longer believe in any sort of supreme being(s). Part of me wants to type out a long winded post about how it came to be, and the other part just wants to leave it be at that. Maybe I can compromise between the two options.
Looking at life as a simple (or maybe not so simple) cosmic occurrence which evolved from what was likely a single cell organism on this earth or even less fills me with an absolute sence of awe. As someone who enjoys being outdoors I have often gazed upon an expanse of trees and thought they were beautiful. Now that I consider how they came to be they are so much more beautiful. Knowing that in death I will return to the same state I existed in prior to birth adds an extreme sence of urgency to my life, there is no perfect existence after a lacidasical existence on earth. Not that I would consider believers in an afterlife of living a lacidasical life, but the abandonment of that idea has added so much more to my own life. |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 7:38:26 PM EDT
[#39]
I rarely will quote extra-biblical sources but in this discussion I believe it is appropriate. St Augustine said (paraphrased), "without evil there can be no good."
It makes sense to me. YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 5:16:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I rarely will quote extra-biblical sources but in this discussion I believe it is appropriate. St Augustine said (paraphrased), "without evil there can be no good." It makes sense to me. YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 8:36:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm far from a theologist. But I believe what we perceive as terrible, tragic, unfair, etc, God sees differently. He sees the complete picture through eternity. Babies dying and being mistreated brings black out rage to normal men. I think it's because in our view that innocent baby, in addition to being abused horribly, also just lost its only chance at life. I believe God doesn't see it as that type of loss. He knows, perhaps, that while their families will mourn the loss, that the child was able to skip the mess of this fallen world and go directly to paradise. Or something along those lines. Without free will, loving God and His loving us, would be valueless. I think you nailed it. We can only view suffering from our world view and limited understanding. For all we know, God is blessing the baby who suffered. We simply cannot understand the the eternal view and the ways of the Lord. (I think I just paraphrased you  )
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Posted: 2/25/2017 3:47:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since this topic is still active I will give an update. I now longer believe in any sort of supreme being(s). Part of me wants to type out a long winded post about how it came to be, and the other part just wants to leave it be at that. Maybe I can compromise between the two options. Looking at life as a simple (or maybe not so simple) cosmic occurrence which evolved from what was likely a single cell organism on this earth or even less fills me with an absolute sence of awe. As someone who enjoys being outdoors I have often gazed upon an expanse of trees and thought they were beautiful. Now that I consider how they came to be they are so much more beautiful. Knowing that in death I will return to the same state I existed in prior to birth adds an extreme sence of urgency to my life, there is no perfect existence after a lacidasical existence on earth. Not that I would consider believers in an afterlife of living a lacidasical life, but the abandonment of that idea has added so much more to my own life. I think our brains go through this phase: I'm not smart enough to articulate this as carefully as it should be articulated but I'll try. We become the greatest power. Our sense, our thoughts our perspective becomes the guiding force in our lives and we will dismiss things as we develop a life perspective. I think to your post here... you are in this phase. But keep in mind you are limiting a limitless God to you. I don't mean this in judgemental way at all. It's just where you are at. God never wants faith to be a burden. And so today you feel free. When you look at those incredible expanses of trees. The process of their life cycle is fascinating. Their creation is something even MORE fascinating. You've accounted for the body in your thoughts. And the bible accounts for this: From dust you came to dust you shall return. Purely scientifically you cannot create or destroy energy.Keep an open mind to the soul or spirit of the body. Where was this energy before, and where does it go after. That is you journey! |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 9:15:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Earth is Satan and the fallen angel's domain. When Satan tempted Christ, he offered him all the kingdoms of the Earth, because they were his to offer. Bad stuff happens here, which is why we should want to be saved and under Jesus' protection. As a nation who has turned from God, I think things are going to be getting a lot worse for us. This. God "could" have created one big Magic Kingdom here on Earth but what would be the point? We have to remain steadfast and look to the afterlife for our reward. I guess where I struggle is "what's the point?". Why did God create us only to have us (knowing beforehand) go off the tracks or remain on the straight and narrow? If God knew us before we were born, knew we would become either saved or unrepentant sinners, what's the point? Our future, our place in the afterlife is unknown only to us. God knows how our personal story ends. He created our story. He knows if we will repent. And, he knows who among us will fail. Guess we'll have to let this play out. TC |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 11:23:43 PM EDT
[#44]
"Why did God create us only to have us (knowing beforehand) go off the tracks or remain on the straight and narrow?"
An analogy would be; i knew before i had my children that they might grow up and choose to do something wrong, but it was worth the risk. But knowing this parents all over the world continue to have children. The nature of love is giving, i would freely give anything to help or save any of my three kids. The bible tells us that God IS Love, so if i feel like that towards all my children maybe His love is even greater. John 15:12-14 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. We all are God's "kids" but because He loves us so much He sacrificed Himself for us, we were worth the risk. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 11:47:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We share a very similar mindset, if there is a god, I don't believe he cares about us at all. |
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Posted: 3/12/2017 12:14:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Who would you rather have on your side? Somebody loyal or somebody that says the right thing and does something else? Free will gives that ability for humans to either follow God with a full heart, or do what we want. He is up there, I may not understand everything or agree with it all, but that's life, trying to go on with what is right. I think those who commit those horrid acts would refrain to so so if it wasn't a crime to keep them from jt. Just one persons opinion.
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Posted: 3/12/2017 1:14:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
while we're discussing suffering caused by man, why does this happen? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4245904/Mom-shares-heartbreaking-image-cancer-stricken-son.html Because there is no god. These very types of events (my pastor when I was a teen had his son die in a similar fashion) made me realize that there was no god. If there was and the deity let things like this happen and did nothing to help, well that deserves no worship. The suffering of a child and doing nothing to help if you can is inconceivable to me. |
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Posted: 3/12/2017 2:24:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because there is no god. These very types of events (my pastor when I was a teen had his son die in a similar fashion) made me realize that there was no god. If there was and the deity let things like this happen and did nothing to help, well that deserves no worship. The suffering of a child and doing nothing to help if you can is inconceivable to me. |
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Posted: 3/12/2017 2:40:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because there is no god. These very types of events (my pastor when I was a teen had his son die in a similar fashion) made me realize that there was no god. If there was and the deity let things like this happen and did nothing to help, well that deserves no worship. The suffering of a child and doing nothing to help if you can is inconceivable to me. I guess its a matter of perspective, for sure suffering is the hardest issue that Christianity faces at least IMO. We could just dismiss God and say that's the way it is, life sucks and move on. To me that worldview would leave a darkness and utter lack of hope for things to ever be made right, what would be the point of anything? Everything would be meaningless. Or if you follow the worldview of Christianity and try to look deeper you'll find that according to the bible God did in fact do something contrary to your assertion that He did nothing to help. Isaiah 53 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. I, by faith rest on the promises that God has made in the bible one of those is that Rev 21:3-4 3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” In this life you can choose whatever worldview you wish, I've chosen mine and i choose to follow Christ. I love how David put it in Psalms 23 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. We struggle with pain and suffering and death, but like David, even though we go thru that our Shepherd promises to see us thru that dark valley safely. I mean no malice towards you or your post just want to point out there sometimes can be different perspectives on things. And i say that as a father who has spent hundreds of hours in hospitals with my two beautiful precious children stricken with cancer 
If the verses i posted are indeed true then maybe you'll change your mind and say He is indeed worthy of our worship Peace |
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Posted: 3/12/2017 6:02:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Erik this for me, brings up a sincere curiosity and maybe you can articulate it. In all my years of walking this earth, for the life of me, I have yet to hear the question; "Why does God allow good things to happen to me or to children?". If God only protected us all the time from all suffering would we recognize Him then? What does God have to do for YOU so you will believe? Describe a God you can believe in. One that was obvious. One that created an existence where there was no suffering, no hate, no evil. If there was a one god, there would be one religion and the god would not make it hard for the population to believe. Bad things happen to good people just as often as the happen to bad people. If there was a god, there would be no starving humans in the world, little girls and boys would not be getting raped by their parents or anyone for that matter. There would be no murder, crime.... maybe you understand me. For a deity to do nothing, either it doesn't exist, or doesn't care. You pick one, I pick the former. For me to believe in a god the entity would need to be tangible and it's actions would have to ALWAYS be worthy of worship. BTW, the god of the bible is neither. In fact none of them are. They are all creations of man to explain the unknown, to make it easier to deal with death or both. |
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