Interesting morning at church. A lesbian couple showed up for the service. The issue was that they were all over each other on and off for the entire 90 minute service. What the heck made them think it was a good idea to be all lovey-dovey when you've got older immigrant women in their headscarves and long skirts all around you?

I'm Orthodox. Small parish, about 150 people, so newcomers really stand out, let alone people with unnatural hair dye jobs, tats, piercings all over their faces, and the constant PDAs. I first noticed this couple when they came in (I'm in choir and how we're positioned means I face the congregation with a view of the entire church - I also keep an eye out for anything untoward since no one else seems to care about security). When I sat down for the sermon, I could see them just my turning my head and really saw the PDAs for the first time (hugging, playing with each others hair, kisses, laying their heads on each other's shoulders, in addition to holding hands). They were also talking and laughing throughout the entire service.

I seriously thought they were there to make trouble. I kept an eye on them for the entire service and other than the PDAs and the constant talking, they didn't try anything. I told our priest about them right after the service as he was greeting everyone and his comment was that their actions were "inappropriate." His grimace said it all. They were leaving the church, but someone grabbed them and brought them into the hall for coffee hour. A friend of mine who is part of the unofficial welcoming committee grabbed me asked me to "make the pierced ladies welcome" as I often talk with visitors. I refused and told her why. She didn't try to argue with me, at least (she's much more liberal than I am).

I was wondering if they were there to ask to get married in my parish, just to cause trouble. You can easily find out through a quick Google search that the Orthodox Church opposes same sex marriage and will not perform same sex marriages at all. Period. Unlike some clergy, my priest will not marry any couple unless either is a member of the parish or close relative of a member. So even if you were Orthodox, but without a connection to my parish, our priest wouldn't marry you.

I now have one another friend angry at me because I took a stand against the lesbian couple. I'll leave her alone to cool down.

I have a number of gay friends and even one transgender friend. But I have always said that the minute someone from the LGBT "community" starts disrespecting or causing trouble with my church is where I draw the line. I've told my gay and transgendered friends that and they have grudgingly respected that.

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Had no idea this was a religious forum...

Dude, you're in the religion forum. Behave yourself.

working a lawsuit or a government crack down on churches

Please delete quote...

I don't get this. Being acquainted with people is very different than counting them as friends. My line is drawn a lot further from the front door of Church.



And its not about being 'gay.' Let's substitute anything that you might consider overtly sinful. Would you as comfortably say 'I have a number of shoplifter friends' or 'I have a number of married friends having affairs.' I would hope not. But your comfort level with claiming 'gay friends' would indicate to me that your world view has already been highly corrupted.



And lastly, I am in no way advocating anything less than humane, cordial, polite, hospitable, respectful, loving Christian treatment of anyone who suffers with same sex attraction.



YMMV.



 

I volunteer\work for a small local church of less then 500 and we have had a few lesbian couples come in from time to time but they are super respectful in their behavior. I suspect their intentions were nefarious

That's what I suspect. Their disrespectful behavior is what really set me off.

I'm of the opinion all are welcomed. Sinners need saving. Coming to flaunt a sin is not acceptable. But if we kicked out all the sinners the pews and pulpit would be empty.
The point is to leave your sins behind, not continue living as before.
We're called to love everyone and leave the judging to The Man.
I have a hard time with that. Also, I understand your anger, concern, and indignation.
Pda in church is unacceptable. Trolling church is unacceptable.

You'd better bake them a cake or else.

Marie,

I think it was a test. People looking for a reason to pick a fight.  



It's not really appropriate for a lot of PDA during mass. Most people with the right intention behave differently in the presence of our Lord. It is disrespectful and I completely understand your feelings.

They were before God when they did this and they can't hide from our God.

First and foremost we are stewards of Christ and knowing that God sees all thing and knows our hearts, our actions should rise above the action of the test. It removes all the oxygen from the fire they came to set.

But more, our response, makes their actions either right or very very wrong.



Some days people make it really hard to see God's face than others but if we don't stop the hate in ourselves first, it will continue to spread.
 

+1.  The church is a hospital for sinners.  (That's why I'm there.)  All the groping is inappropriate, though, so I don't really know how to respond, if at all, to that.

I would have your AV team put a camera on them and record it and make sure that everyone treats them the same as anyone else.

sheepdog here

Sounds like they may have been attempting to create a reaction.

AV team? The Orthodox don't have AV teams. Our music is completely acapella.

ETA: I'm going to not be in church for the next two Sundays so I'm going to be sure to follow up and see if they come back.

Lol.

 

Right

Trolls exist in the offline world too.

We have had a few out here in Utah. Keep and eye out for their friends who are trying to make videos as well.

A group of them just got arrested in my area, after failing at their devices they vandalized the home of the Bishop and were arrested.

Sounds like they were testing the waters.

They probably had the camera themselves.

Somebody looking for their 15 minutes of viral fame.

What would Jesus do?

Jesus met people where they were.  He didn't leave them there, however.

have the sheepdogs keep an eye on them.



the Lord is my shepherd, I am but one of his sheep dogs

 

Drive them out with a whip, and tell them, “It is written: ‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a den of immorality.”

Semantics

Are you not friends with gluttons? What about the envious and prideful? Greedy?

Mark 2:13-17

If my friends are gluttons, or filled with pride, they certainly take pains to not appear as such. I get your point. Yes, we are all fallen. But your scripture post closes with Jesus Christ having dinner with sinners and calling those sinners to repentance. That is a far cry from the continued befriending of those who choose to openly defy the natural order and God's law. Matthew 10:14



 

The tumult you grapple with is understandable.

Repentance is a life long battle. As fantastic as it would be if the minute someone was even considering sinning they instead repented, that's rarely how it works. The lesbian couple in the op story may one day see the error of their ways and we hope they do but we don't turn our backs on them and leave them to parish.

It's an ongoing endeavor.

I think it's somewhere in the middle. We don't turn our backs on others yet we shouldn't put up with someone who continuously "refuses to listen to your message," as you pointed out in the cited scripture.

I saw my friend yesterday who talked to the lesbian couple on Sunday. I asked her flat out why they were at our parish on Sunday. She said that they had been attending church with the mother of half of the couple, who goes to a Spanish language Catholic parish, but neither spoke Spanish and wanted services they could understand. My reply was that their behavior didn't indicate they were actually interested in the service and that I suspected they were there to make trouble. She admitted she was wondering about their real motives.

The Spanish language Catholic parish referred to is very conservative and I don't expect the folks there would have tolerated the PDAs or the same-sex relationship.

I talked with a friend who is an Orthodox priest and has had issues with same sex couples (some of whom were actually Orthodox). He told them they were allowed to attend services, but they were not allowed to show affection (hold hands, etc.), they could not promote same-sex marriage, gay issues, or the same sex lifestyle at the parish, and they could not receive Communion or any other sacraments while living the gay lifestyle. If they didn't like it, they could leave, and if they didn't follow the rules, they would be told to leave. The priest said one couple abided by the rules for 6-12 months then the Supreme Court ruled in favor of same-sex marriage and all heck broke loose with this couple. Thankfully they moved, right when they were going to be told to leave.

Entirely appropriate. The priest made the correct and proper response.





 

This. They were trolling your church.

The real problem is that some people have a knee-jerk reaction of "OMG you're homophobic!" if you dare disagree with something a gay or lesbian does.

What they're not bothering to consider - or purposefully ignoring - is whether or not the same behavior would be tolerated in a straight couple.  And frankly from how you described their behavior, it would be in appropriate for ANY couple to act like that during a church service.

Sounds like you handled it well OP.

2nd week in a row that the lesbians haven't show up again.

My friend is fine again, as well

If the  like this came to make trouble at my wife's orthodox church they would have been asked to leave. If they didn't they would be removed.

If I remember correctly, your wife's parish is ROCOR? My parish belongs to one of the "mainstream" jurisdictions.  Our ushers are older men, and "don't make a scene" seems to be the SOP (both theirs and the priest's). Me, I'd have thrown them out on their ear.

I think this speaks volumes as to their true intentions.

Prayers answered.



 

The church is the body of believers, those who have repented and have been justified by the blood of Christ. The church isn't for the unbeliever.  The church is led by the pastor, who equips the members so they can go out and share the good news.  This is done by proper exegesis of scripture.  The church body then goes out and shares the good news with the unsaved.

Anyone committing acts that are offensive can be removed.  Disturbing the service isn't right.  This is a separate matter from people's particular sin condition.  Paul wrote about all of this.  If someone that is not saved starts to attend a church, the preaching of the word should bring the conviction needed for repentance.  But the bible is clear that if people are living in open sin, they can ultimately be expelled from the group.  

Hi Marie. Actually, it's Saint Mary's located in Roswell. I don't think they are affiliated with the reform movement.

I can tell you that troublemakers would not be tolerated.

I was under the impression that gay was okay now in the catholic church.

I'm Orthodox, not Catholic. HUGE difference.

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Please send me a link to info on your fath.

What do you mean by "ok"?

No, not true.....though given what some of our prelates have said (to include our heretical pope), I can understand your confusion

Yep.

He'a trolling. If he was serious he would have answered my question by now.