Wanting to keep this civil and have no idea where this thread might go so this question is in this forum and not GD.


If He is-why don't we really live like we believe it?

Question of the ages...

Yeah, maybe just thinking out loud here.  

Who does he say he is? Serious question to define the discussion . . .

oops. NVM

I believe he is who he says he is. It's called faith for a reason.

Now the wife is not so sure, but still goes to church and does prayer service.

Serious question, why are you finding it hard to believe?

Of course He is. God, and His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, give us free will to believe and act as we wish. They have shown us the Way and it's up to each of us to choose our own path.

this.

Step up with the answer and citation, OP, please.

I think it was CS Lewis who said something to the effect of.

Three choices.

Jesus was a liar who wanted to deceive everyone
Jesus was insane and THOUGHT he was the son of God.
Jesus was who He said He was.

No other option.  It's simple to me.

What is your interpretation on how someone should really be living if He is the Son of God?

And.....we're off.

Thanks.

Don't tell me we're getting sarcastic already, are we?

The gap between man and God is hard to fathom even with all of the "weapons" we are dealt. At the end of the day we are born into sin and it's a constant battle to be like Him. Progress is as important as the destination.

Better?

This quote says it all...one has to believe in the Bible in order to believe in Christ.  Old Testament prophets prophesied Jesus' arrival long before the Immaculate Conception.  We believe on faith.  I can only pray that you can believe and be saved.

"Before Abraham was; I AM"
"If you have seen me you have seen the father".....
"You are the Christ....the Son of the Living God"  (Peter says this but Jesus accepts it).
"I will send you a Helper"......(The Holy Spirit.....the one who is exactly like I am)

Jesus is God (The ONE God that is Plural-Elohim)...... in the flesh.  

The late Josh McDowell used those arguments in Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

Not hard to believe.....hard to live.  

Just about sums it up.

No other choices.

Just as we have one of two choices on the beginning of this whole thing.

#1:  Something came from nothing.  This whole shooting match just appeared from zip, zero, nada.

#2:  There was a Creator.

There truly are no other choices.  If there is some other option, I'd love to hear about it.

The other option is that man imposes his understanding on the things that Jesus said, creating doctrines that Jesus never intended.

Blade, I'd love to hear your third theory.

Thank you.  

We (American Christians) have slid off the road and are in the ditch bleeding from several different places.  

What are you speaking of BTccw?

Do you also think that there is truly a third choice after something from nothing and creation?

It doesn't take a deep level of philosophy to narrow your choices down.

Even Dawkins and Hitchens refuse to answer this most basic question.

I'm agreeing with (Highlighted in Blue).  We (American Christians) have created doctrines that Jesus never intended.  

An example would be ?

Yes.

Peter says he is the son of God (rather than God). Jesus agreed with his assessment.

The Jews believed the Messiah was was that promised son of David from 2 Sam 7:14. They also believed that the Messiah was the one referred to in Psalm 110. Jesus agrees and carries the point to the logical conclusion, i.e....  that the Messiah (David's son) would be David's ruler and by implication would mean that he would also have to be the son of God.  The NT authors use the fulfillment of Psalm 110 as the primary argument that Jesus is the messiah and cite that Psalm far more than any other passage.

Jesus also says he's the promised seed of Abraham and cites the passage where Abraham rejoiced (Genesis 17:17) which is when the seed was promised to come through Sarah. Paul agrees and says Jesus is that seed of Abraham (Gal 3) and citing the promises to Abraham as being the gospel.

Christ, at the last supper,  made plain that he was the covenant sacrifice for the Abrahamic covenant.

The trinity/Jesus is God
Heaven as a place you go to after you die
Hell as a place you go to after you die
Conscious reunification with family members in the afterlife
One true church/ the Pope
Being a Christian means you're a liberal do-gooder
Water baptism as a element of salvation
Natural works/holiday observance, customs and traditions

Any number of things. Basically any and almost all major tenets of mainstream religions are tainted with man's (often non-Biblical) interpretation/misunderstanding.

Some of those aren't bad. But the liberal do-gooder ???.......Do-Gooder as in one that does good things for mankind - that's a great thing.......Liberal? Actually atheist take the cake for being liberals. They also excel at being more morally corrupt and evil.
And in fact they give less to charity then any religious group.

Yikes....did this thread just slide off into the ditch as well......?  

Gotta love this place and the people here though.....cause Jesus said I have too.  

Really? Out of that list, that's the one you key in on? I'm surprised.

That one is simply a reflection of my Methodist upbringing. All I heard growing up was beatitude type stuff. I barely knew the rest of the Bible existed until I left the Methodist church.

I often paint with a pretty broad brush......but you've just brought an industrial paint sprayer and the crew to run it to this thread.  

This thread is; "If Jesus is who He said he is then why don't we act like it?".  It's kinda of rhetorical because the First premise of the thread is that you believe Jesus is who He said He was.....at least.

He clearly claimed to be and is God.
He spoke often of Heaven.....from a first person narrative.
He more often spoke of Hell......
Luke 16:19 will answer your forth point.
It's His Church....not the Popes nor does it belong to anyone else.  
The Pharisees and Sadducees were the "Conservatives" of Jesus day.  He was a RADICAL LIBERAL in His time.  Yeah....He went around doing good.
Thief on the cross next to Jesus was not water baptized.....yet; "this day you will be with me in paradise" ....
And your final point cements for me that you are following a religion and not the relationship that Jesus is for those who know His voice.

Not disagreeing with the part in blue....in fact....that is the actual point of this thread but I think you picked some bad examples.  

Why do we follow man's rule and not God's?

I'm going to say that we follow man's rule for a couple of reasons.
1.  We don't know or understand scripture.  I've started to define "faith" as knowledge, understanding, and conviction (by the Holy Spirit).   Without faith it is impossible to please Him.... Heb 11:6
2.  Man has corrupted the "church".  The American Christian organized church is not the same as His Church.  

I think we agree?

I would argue that if The Church.....His Church were doing what He asked it to do Civil Governments would cease to exist.  

One of the first things that we hear Jesus say is REPENT for the Kingdom of God/Heaven is at hand.  They are exactly the same thing.  It is both a physical place AND at the same time a relationship. I'm quite sure I don't understand heaven the way Jesus does.....Paul said we see through a glass/mirror dimly but one day we shall see face to face.  Heaven (the physical dwelling place of God) is quite beyond our ability to imagine but Revelation paints a pretty good picture.....however, it is still more.  Heaven (the physical place) to someone in the early AD's who walked on dirty trails everywhere was streets paved in gold/glass.  For me these days (the physical place) it's a pine needle trail winding through a mixed aspen/white pine forest. I'm pretty sure that is not what heaven is. (but it would be just like Him to love me that much.....)  The fact that by the Holy Spirit Jesus lives in my life heaven already exists as a promise of the relationship that I have.  

When Jesus speaks of heaven and hell as an actual physical place......as in "cast into the lake of fire".....I'm going to pay attention and since He talks more about hell than heaven....I especially going to listen.  Jesus isn't "just someone in the Bible".....

That story in Luke 16:19 isn't a parable.  It is a first person account of actual events, actual people, and real places. It is either that....or you can doubt everything else Jesus said.  Jesus was there......cause God can do those things.  Jesus was either telling the truth or a lie.....how does that get spun these days?  I don't care.  I believe what Luke says He says.  (Faith--Knowledge, Understanding, and Conviction by the Holy Spirit).  

The trinity is Jesus/ God/ Holy Spirit.  I'm assuming we agree on this even though you only included two parts of the trinity.

Heaven is a place the saved go when they die.  Agree?  I certainly hope so although you didn't make that clear.

Hell is a place the reprobates go.  Agree?  Again, you didn't make this clear.

Conscious reunification with family members.  Perhaps. Please cite in the Bible.

One true church, the Pope.  Ummmm, you are going to have to cite this in the Bible.

Being a Christian....do gooder junk??????????????  No idea what you are talking about.
Being a "Biblical do gooder"?  Sure.  Being some liberal SJW?  Not even a chance.

Water Baptism as an "ELEMENT" of salvation?  Not a chance bro. Do you honestly believe that the thief on the cross was baptized by water?

Natural works, observance, traditions??????  Really? You want me to observe MAN MADE TRADITIONS?????   Nah.  Traditions are nice, but they
ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION.  Galatians is your friend.  Hebrews is your friend.

Lewis left out other obvious possibilities, including that the biographies and stories of Jesus's life and claims were distorted over time.

Bohr.  You just blew my mind.  You have been an ardent Catholic defender.

Are you now saying that the Bible is not Theopneustos, God breathed?

Double Tap

No. I'm saying Lewis left out the inaccuracy of the Gospels and epistles as an obvious possibility.

His argument is a weak argument to anyone not already inclined to believe.

The inerrancy of the Bible is a tricky enough proposition for anyone rejecting Church inerrancy past the Pentecost generation, but I digress.

You have doubled down on your double speak.

Bohr, I will make this a simple yes or no question:

Do you believe the Bible is Theopneustos?

Yes.

Do you believe or even comprehend that one can discuss an issue academically without forcefully injecting ones own bias into the discussion?

Ouch. It seems that you have been triggered.

Bohr, I asked you a basic theological question.

A question that Mormons would have to answer "No".

A question the Jehovas Witness would have to answer "No".

A question that Muslims would have to answer "No".

A question that Seventh Day Adventist would have to answer "No".

Bohr, If you think my question was a snarkey "academic" question then I'm sorry Bohr, You and I have a much greater degree of disagreement than
simply Catholic vs. Reformed.

ETA:  It seems that you want an academic discussion.  Sorry Bohr, our Salvation is more than academic.

I wasn't advocating any of those things. I suggested that there are occasions when man imposes his own understanding on the things that Jesus said, creating doctrines that Jesus never intended. I was asked for examples. I offered those as examples of doctrines that man holds that may not be supported by Jesus actually said.

No offense meant op. Liberal Do-Gooder comes across to me as a Liberal that thinks they're doing good for mankind by having you do what they think is right. A tree huger so to speak.

lol.  This is still ARFCOM even if it isn't GD

This is very true, and it is something I struggled with for some time.  Why should I believe a book that was written by men?  Because it's the word of God.  Who says it's the word of God?  Men do.  The logic is circular.

What settled it for me is the fact that all but one of the disciples met gruesome deaths for their unwavering beliefs.  Men are simply not willing to die for a lie, for something they made up.

The Mormons and JW's believe the biblical Christ. That is, Son of God. Not the Father, Son. Though we don't share the exact same belief we both see Him as separate from the Father. The NT is pretty clear on them being two different bodies. So in short, yes He is who he said he was. The Son of God. Acts 7: 55-56    55"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked steadfastly into heaven, and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56"And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God."
Ever wonder why Muslims hate Christians? It's because they say "God is one of three."

John 1:1 says your wrong. 

John 3:16 says your wrong. Or simply clarifies John 1:1

My new sig line, right there!