Redemption from Sin. - Page 1

General » Religion

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Redemption from Sin.

Posted: 6/27/2015 3:56:33 PM EDT

Apparently many Christians haven't been taught what is going on in the Old Testament, and thus, the Bible. So I thought I'd lay it out, since it is vital to understanding God, His Word, the human condition, Christ's sacrifice, and God's plan as laid out in the Book of Revelation.

I'll try to illustrate this the best I can:

First, God laid down the OT Law to accomplish several things, among the reasons are:

1) To reveal the character and glory of God.

2) Set apart the nation of Israel in order to set the stage for Jesus. (Galatians 3:22-25)

3) So that man would know what sin is. (Romans 3:20)

4) To illustrate the need for Christ's sacrifice.

OT Law was NEVER intended to provide a path to salvation. That's why Jesus said, in Matthew 5:17, "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. If anyone tells you that you must follow some sort of OT Law, NT "Law", tradition, or worse, follow a set of rules or traditions not explicitly laid out in the Old or New Testaments, in order to obtain salvation...RUN AWAY from them. (References: Romans 6:14; 7:1-14; Galatians 3; 4:21; 5:1, 13; 2 Corinthians 3:7-18; Habakkuk 2:4)

There's another reason, it gives us the guidelines for, and the logic of, our salvation, as set by God.

The two most important parts of OT Law in regards to God's overall plan are also the two most hammered on by critics: the Laws regarding slavery and marriage.

In regards to slavery, there are two purposes to the Jewish concept. First, the practical (every day living) purpose, which isn't one of an oppressive system, but one where slaves had rights and the institution was essentially a 'social safety net', this website has the most complete explanation of the practical purpose that I have found online.

The second purpose of the Laws regarding slavery is to provide a legal (for lack of a better term) framework for the redemption of humanity. The essential piece of this is in Leviticus 25:47-55:

"47 'Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family,

48 then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him,

49 or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself.

50 He then with his purchaser shall calculate from the year when he sold himself to him up to the year of jubilee; and the price of his sale shall correspond to the number of years

.....

55 For the sons of Israel are My servants; they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

So if someone sells themselves into slavery, they can be bought from it by a blood relative, for the price of however many years the person would be in bondage. This is the concept often referred to as the "kinsman-redeemer”, which we will explore later.

Now, we'll go over what happened at the Fall:

Adam & Eve sold us into the bondage sin for a piece of "fruit”; and the lie that they would be like gods (Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3).

In doing so, they became slaves to sin, and died spiritually, that is, became separated from God (Isaiah 59:2; John 8:34; Romans 6:16, 7:9-11; 2 Peter 2:19; Galatians 5:1; Ephesians 2:1)

Now some argue that when Adam and Eve did this, they also gave up their dominion of the earth, under God's authority, to Satan. OT slave law allowed slaves to keep property; however, when Satan offered Jesus the world in exchange for worship, yet Jesus did not deny Satan's ability to do so (Matthew 4:8-10), nor Satan's claim that the world was relinquished to him (Luke 4:5-8).

So what does this mean for us? Since we are slaves to sin, then to release us from that slavery requires a payment from a kinsman to redeem us from it. So what's the price of sin?

It is death (Romans 6:23).

That's what God meant when he told Adam he would die if he ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was not only the eventual physical death, but immediate spiritual death.

So humankind needed a kinsman to pay the price of death in order to release us from sin.

The problem is that it isn't in the power of someone who themselves is a slave. The Book of Ruth illustrates the concept, especially in chapter 4:

3 "Then he said to the closest relative, "Naomi, who has come back from the land of Moab, has to sell the piece of land which belonged to our brother Elimelech.

4 So I thought to inform you, saying, 'Buy it before those who are sitting here, and before the elders of my people. If you will redeem it, redeem it; but if not, tell me that I may know; for there is no one but you to redeem it, and I am after you.'" And he said, "I will redeem it."

5 Then Boaz said, "On the day you buy the field from the hand of Naomi, you must also acquire Ruth the Moabitess, the widow of the deceased, in order to raise up the name of the deceased on his inheritance."

6 The closest relative said, "I cannot redeem it for myself, because I would jeopardize my own inheritance. Redeem it for yourself; you may have my right of redemption, for I cannot redeem it."

7 Now this was the custom in former times in Israel concerning the redemption and the exchange of land to confirm any matter: a man removed his sandal and gave it to another; and this was the manner of attestation in Israel.

8 So the closest relative said to Boaz, "Buy it for yourself." And he removed his sandal.

9 Then Boaz said to the elders and all the people, "You are witnesses today that I have bought from the hand of Naomi all that belonged to Elimelech and all that belonged to Chilion and Mahlon.

10 Moreover, I have acquired Ruth the Moabitess, the widow of Mahlon, to be my wife in order to raise up the name of the deceased on his inheritance, so that the name of the deceased will not be cut off from his brothers or from the court of his birth place; you are witnesses today."

11 All the people who were in the court, and the elders, said, "We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman who is coming into your home like Rachel and Leah, both of whom built the house of Israel; and may you achieve wealth in Ephrathah and become famous in Bethlehem.

12 Moreover, may your house be like the house of Perez whom Tamar bore to Judah, through the offspring which the Lord will give you by this young woman." ...... 14 Then the women said to Naomi, "Blessed is the Lord who has not left you without a redeemer today, and may his name become famous in Israel."

So in order for a relative to redeem a slave, they must be willing, able, and can pay the price in full, meaning that, in order to purchase us from the slavery of sin, dying wasn't enough, but death had to be beaten in order to prove the fullness of the payment. Another human cannot pay the price, so what did God do? He became flesh (John 1:14).

One of the important aspects of the Gospels, and the entire Bible for that matter, that is often overlooked is the genealogies. Without those we have no proof that Jesus is indeed a kinsman of Adam, and therefore, all of us.

All the Gospels save Mark contain a genealogy. Matthew focuses on the direct male line from Adam to Jesus, emphasizing His claim to the throne of Israel. Some readers will object, saying that Jesus was not Joseph's biological son, except Joseph, by marrying Mary, legally adopted her child, which was reinforced when he went to the Temple and presented Jesus as his son (Luke 2).

The genealogy in Luke deviates from Matthew. This is likely because Luke is tracing Mary's genealogy; but why does the line jump from Heli to Joseph? Because Mary had no brothers, so when Mary married Joseph, he became the heir to Heli. This also sidestepped the Curse of Coniah in Jeremiah 22:24, since Mary was a blood descendant of David, but not through Jeconiah.

(In case someone mentions that there is no genealogy in the Gospel of John, it's listed in John 1:1-2, and 1:14. John focused his Gospel on the divinity of Christ, and clarifying any misunderstandings from the other three.)

So now we have our kinsman-redeemer, a blood-relative who was able to pay the price through His death and resurrection, as stated many times in the Epistles, but also by Jesus Himself (Mark 10:45; John 10:17-18). He is both of direct male lineage of the Kings of Israel, both by law and blood.

This is why Jesus had to be sinless and Himself not in bondage to sin. It also is why His bodily resurrection is vital, and to deny either is to deny that Jesus released us from sin.

The confirmation of our redemption from bondage through Christ is found in Revelation chapter 5. The description of the scroll matches one that the Romans and Greeks of John the Apostle's day would use when dealing with estate, or inheritance law. They would write the contract on the inside, seal it with several seals to prevent someone from reading it prematurely, then write the title and name of the scroll on the outside. Note this is the opening event of the tribulation, where Christ opens the scroll, giving Him the Earth, that His blood has purchased, and proceeds to secure His Kingdom for us in the next 15 chapters.

There is one last important piece to OT slavery law. A master could marry a slave, or give the slave in marriage to his son; however, doing this automatically freed the slave and made said slave his daughter (Exodus 21:7-10; Deuteronomy 21:10-14; 1 Chronicles 2:34-35) .

This brings us to another much-criticized part of the Old Testament, that of the 'bride-price'. Which I will cover later

Posted: 6/27/2015 5:34:54 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Apparently many Christians haven't been taught what is going on in the Old Testament, and thus, the Bible. So I thought I'd lay it out, since it is vital to understanding God, His Word, the human condition, Christ's sacrifice, and God's plan as laid out in the Book of Revelation.

I'll try to illustrate this the best I can:

First, God laid down the OT Law to accomplish several things, among the reasons are:

1) To reveal the character and glory of God.

2) Set apart the nation of Israel in order to set the stage for Jesus. (Galatians 3:22-25)

3) So that man would know what sin is. (Romans 3:20)

4) To illustrate the need for Christ's sacrifice.

OT Law was NEVER intended to provide a path to salvation. That's why Jesus said, in Matthew 5:17, "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. If anyone tells you that you must follow some sort of OT Law, NT "Law", tradition, or worse, follow a set of rules or traditions not explicitly laid out in the Old or New Testaments, in order to obtain salvation...RUN AWAY from them. (References: Romans 6:14; 7:1-14; Galatians 3; 4:21; 5:1, 13; 2 Corinthians 3:7-18; Habakkuk 2:4)

There's another reason, it gives us the guidelines for, and the logic of, our salvation, as set by God.

The two most important parts of OT Law in regards to God's overall plan are also the two most hammered on by critics: the Laws regarding slavery and marriage.

In regards to slavery, there are two purposes to the Jewish concept. First, the practical (every day living) purpose, which isn't one of an oppressive system, but one where slaves had rights and the institution was essentially a 'social safety net', this website has the most complete explanation of the practical purpose that I have found online.

The second purpose of the Laws regarding slavery is to provide a legal (for lack of a better term) framework for the redemption of humanity. The essential piece of this is in Leviticus 25:47-55:

"47 'Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family,

48 then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him,

49 or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself.

50 He then with his purchaser shall calculate from the year when he sold himself to him up to the year of jubilee; and the price of his sale shall correspond to the number of years

.....

55 For the sons of Israel are My servants; they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

So if someone sells themselves into slavery, they can be bought from it by a blood relative, for the price of however many years the person would be in bondage. This is the concept often referred to as the "kinsman-redeemer”, which we will explore later.

Now, we'll go over what happened at the Fall:

Adam & Eve sold us into the bondage sin for a piece of "fruit”; and the lie that they would be like gods (Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3).
In doing so, they became slaves to sin, and died spiritually, that is, became separated from God (Isaiah 59:2; John 8:34; Romans 6:16, 7:9-11; 2 Peter 2:19; Galatians 5:1; Ephesians 2:1)

Now some argue that when Adam and Eve did this, they also gave up their dominion of the earth, under God's authority, to Satan. OT slave law allowed slaves to keep property; however, when Satan offered Jesus the world in exchange for worship, yet Jesus did not deny Satan's ability to do so (Matthew 4:8-10), nor Satan's claim that the world was relinquished to him (Luke 4:5-8).

So what does this mean for us? Since we are slaves to sin, then to release us from that slavery requires a payment from a kinsman to redeem us from it. So what's the price of sin?

It is death (Romans 6:23).

That's what God meant when he told Adam he would die if he ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was not only the eventual physical death, but immediate spiritual death.

So humankind needed a kinsman to pay the price of death in order to release us from sin.

The problem is that it isn't in the power of someone who themselves is a slave. The Book of Ruth illustrates the concept, especially in chapter 4:

3 "Then he said to the closest relative, "Naomi, who has come back from the land of Moab, has to sell the piece of land which belonged to our brother Elimelech.

4 So I thought to inform you, saying, 'Buy it before those who are sitting here, and before the elders of my people. If you will redeem it, redeem it; but if not, tell me that I may know; for there is no one but you to redeem it, and I am after you.'" And he said, "I will redeem it."

5 Then Boaz said, "On the day you buy the field from the hand of Naomi, you must also acquire Ruth the Moabitess, the widow of the deceased, in order to raise up the name of the deceased on his inheritance."

6 The closest relative said, "I cannot redeem it for myself, because I would jeopardize my own inheritance. Redeem it for yourself; you may have my right of redemption, for I cannot redeem it."

7 Now this was the custom in former times in Israel concerning the redemption and the exchange of land to confirm any matter: a man removed his sandal and gave it to another; and this was the manner of attestation in Israel.

8 So the closest relative said to Boaz, "Buy it for yourself." And he removed his sandal.

9 Then Boaz said to the elders and all the people, "You are witnesses today that I have bought from the hand of Naomi all that belonged to Elimelech and all that belonged to Chilion and Mahlon.

10 Moreover, I have acquired Ruth the Moabitess, the widow of Mahlon, to be my wife in order to raise up the name of the deceased on his inheritance, so that the name of the deceased will not be cut off from his brothers or from the court of his birth place; you are witnesses today."

11 All the people who were in the court, and the elders, said, "We are witnesses. May the Lord make the woman who is coming into your home like Rachel and Leah, both of whom built the house of Israel; and may you achieve wealth in Ephrathah and become famous in Bethlehem.

12 Moreover, may your house be like the house of Perez whom Tamar bore to Judah, through the offspring which the Lord will give you by this young woman." ...... 14 Then the women said to Naomi, "Blessed is the Lord who has not left you without a redeemer today, and may his name become famous in Israel."

So in order for a relative to redeem a slave, they must be willing, able, and can pay the price in full, meaning that, in order to purchase us from the slavery of sin, dying wasn't enough, but death had to be beaten in order to prove the fullness of the payment. Another human cannot pay the price, so what did God do? He became flesh (John 1:14).

One of the important aspects of the Gospels, and the entire Bible for that matter, that is often overlooked is the genealogies. Without those we have no proof that Jesus is indeed a kinsman of Adam, and therefore, all of us.

All the Gospels save Mark contain a genealogy. Matthew focuses on the direct male line from Adam to Jesus, emphasizing His claim to the throne of Israel. Some readers will object, saying that Jesus was not Joseph's biological son, except Joseph, by marrying Mary, legally adopted her child, which was reinforced when he went to the Temple and presented Jesus as his son (Luke 2).

The genealogy in Luke deviates from Matthew. This is likely because Luke is tracing Mary's genealogy; but why does the line jump from Heli to Joseph? Because Mary had no brothers, so when Mary married Joseph, he became the heir to Heli. This also sidestepped the Curse of Coniah in Jeremiah 22:24, since Mary was a blood descendant of David, but not through Jeconiah.

(In case someone mentions that there is no genealogy in the Gospel of John, it's listed in John 1:1-2, and 1:14. John focused his Gospel on the divinity of Christ, and clarifying any misunderstandings from the other three.)

So now we have our kinsman-redeemer, a blood-relative who was able to pay the price through His death and resurrection, as stated many times in the Epistles, but also by Jesus Himself (Mark 10:45; John 10:17-18). He is both of direct male lineage of the Kings of Israel, both by law and blood.

This is why Jesus had to be sinless and Himself not in bondage to sin. It also is why His bodily resurrection is vital, and to deny either is to deny that Jesus released us from sin.

The confirmation of our redemption from bondage through Christ is found in Revelation chapter 5. The description of the scroll matches one that the Romans and Greeks of John the Apostle's day would use when dealing with estate, or inheritance law. They would write the contract on the inside, seal it with several seals to prevent someone from reading it prematurely, then write the title and name of the scroll on the outside. Note this is the opening event of the tribulation, where Christ opens the scroll, giving Him the Earth, that His blood has purchased, and proceeds to secure His Kingdom for us in the next 15 chapters.

There is one last important piece to OT slavery law. A master could marry a slave, or give the slave in marriage to his son; however, doing this automatically freed the slave and made said slave his daughter (Exodus 21:7-10; Deuteronomy 21:10-14; 1 Chronicles 2:34-35) .

This brings us to another much-criticized part of the Old Testament, that of the 'bride-price'. Which I will cover later

View Quote

Nice explanation, an easier way to say what you just said is. "The Bible is about the Cross of Christ"!

Posted: 6/27/2015 9:40:18 PM EDT

[#2]

Question: What WAS the path to salvation in the OT?

Posted: 6/27/2015 9:49:18 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

Question: What WAS the path to salvation in the OT?

View Quote

Jesus.

Posted: 6/27/2015 10:19:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Question: What WAS the path to salvation in the OT?

View Quote

Believing that our Father provides the unblemished Lamb who redeems the sins of man, same as today.

Posted: 6/28/2015 6:43:31 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Question: What WAS the path to salvation in the OT?

View Quote

Same as the new, "Faith in God" Hebrews Chapters 10-12

Posted: 6/28/2015 6:59:50 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

Nice explanation, an easier way to say what you just said is. "The Bible is about the Cross of Christ"!

View Quote

That's not enough to just say that. People tend to want simple answers, but the fact is that there is a lot of depth to the cross. This here is just one part of it, there are other aspects: the atonement of the lamb, and the bride-price.

The in-depth answers bring glory to God, because it shows this is not some arbitrary, abstract thing that a bunch of dead guys made up that some other dead guy put into a book. It shows that there is a overriding, interlocking logic to all the books, written over the period of 1600 years; so much so, that it's almost like the Bible was written by one person, but as the history of the manuscripts show, it wasn't a single human hand that did it. So what did then?

Posted: 6/28/2015 7:22:42 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's not enough to just say that. People tend to want simple answers, but the fact is that there is a lot of depth to the cross. This here is just one part of it, there are other aspects: the atonement of the lamb, and the bride-price.

The in-depth answers bring glory to God, because it shows this is not some arbitrary, abstract thing that a bunch of dead guys made up that some other dead guy put into a book. It shows that there is a overriding, interlocking logic to all the books, written over the period of 1600 years; so much so, that it's almost like the Bible was written by one person, but as the history of the manuscripts show, it wasn't a single human hand that did it. So what did then? [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif[/img

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nice explanation, an easier way to say what you just said is. "The Bible is about the Cross of Christ"!

That's not enough to just say that. People tend to want simple answers, but the fact is that there is a lot of depth to the cross. This here is just one part of it, there are other aspects: the atonement of the lamb, and the bride-price.

The in-depth answers bring glory to God, because it shows this is not some arbitrary, abstract thing that a bunch of dead guys made up that some other dead guy put into a book. It shows that there is a overriding, interlocking logic to all the books, written over the period of 1600 years; so much so, that it's almost like the Bible was written by one person, but as the history of the manuscripts show, it wasn't a single human hand that did it. So what did then? [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif[/img

The Holy Spirit guided the writers of the Bible.
Yes, there is a lot more that can be said. It is the Blood of Jesus and what He did on the Cross that brings Salvation and Sanctification (getting the sin out of your life).
The whole old testament, animal sacrifices, the tabernacle, etc pointed to the Cross.
Jesus did not make things hard, one example is the "thief on the Cross" I am sure he knew a lot of religion because he was under the Old Testament law but that did not help him.
But he did recognize Jesus as Lord and repented. And was saved.

Posted: 6/28/2015 8:10:53 AM EDT

[#8]

Not everyone wants simple answers.

Simple answers don't help much to ground us in our faith and they leave us with a house built upon the sand.

Posted: 6/28/2015 8:30:51 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not everyone wants simple answers.

Simple answers don't help much to ground us in our faith and they leave us with a house built upon the sand.

View Quote

Salvation is not as hard as it seems, Living a life that Glorifies God after Salvation is harder and thats where you need to be grounded in Gods word and nothing else.
I am not arguing against what anyone said in other posts, I support what has been said. Hope no one is taking what I said in the wrong way.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Redemption from Sin.

General » Religion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us