You have to either be a real hardcore PC lover or be really into the RPG/Strategy genre to justify playing on a PC over one of the consoles in today's world.

FIFY

Konsoles are for Kids

Such a broad statement with no effort in providing reasons why its a valid opinion.

PC>console

Why is this?   Graphics?, Price?  Controls?   Why do you think the PC is a lower end platform for the other genres of games than consoles?

PC, baby.

How do you figure? My favorite pc game at the moment is Gunz 2. Its a game that you need pin point accuracy at super high speeds, it would be impossible to play on a console due to the inferior FPS controls. Not only that but they just don't make it for console.



 

Got bored this morning while sippin some coffee and put this pc together on PC partpicker.



Here is the link http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PD8QwP



Its way better then Xbox1 or PS4 and its the same price, this one runs about 480 dollars. Once your in the door with a pc like this it is stupidly easy to upgrade as well. In a few years you want to enhance performance just throw in a better video card it wont cost you much and you wont have to buy a 500 dollar console to play newer games. All your old games will work on this FOREVER, you don't ever have to deal with discs again. FYI newer computers don't even need disc drives. It has 3 times the hard drive space that a standard console has so you wont run out of room any time soon, actually running out of room wont even be in your mind because you will never get close. The accessories are cheaper, the games are cheaper and look nicer. You can use any kind of controller you want, and do anything you want on it.



Why would you ever play console when stuff like this exists?

I've given up on consoles completely and have gone complete PC.  Only thing I do console related is old Neo Geo

Aw sweet, did you get one of those new handheld ones?

I did.  It is already dead in future production

Ironically, Microsoft wanted to go "disc free" with the XBox One and people flipped out.

In fairness, the PC space is very different from the console world in how people still play their games.  Many console players still love their physical media (see: midnight releases), while PC players haven't seriously bothered with that stuff for 5+ years - partly due to larger storage capacities on PCs, and partly due to the added PC-only benefits of programs like Steam (sales, back catalog, etc).  Microsoft jumped the gun by not giving people enough of a carrot to go along with the stick of losing the disc and dealing with the draconian measures like the 24hr check-ins.  Telling people their stuff is locked to their account and doesn't need a disc doesn't work when most people want to trade that disc in a few weeks later because they no longer play the game.

I think MS still will come out with a discless X1 at some point.  It's inevitable.  Same with Sony and the PS4.  Something with a 1TB HDD and no disc drive at a ~$100 price cut would probably move quite a few and bring the future faster.  Especially if they all get the with the PC program and start releasing digital versions at a cheaper cost.  They need to give console gamers who are still wedded to the traditional idea of discs and trade-ins a good reason to want to switch to a digital marketplace.

PC gaming is far superior.  All these people that say it is not have either A.) Never owned a decent PC gaming rig, or B.) Never tried it.

All this game consoles are better because they use controllers is B.S.

You can still use a controller on a PC, but the mouse and keyboard is lightyears ahead of the gamepads.

Also, you lose the ability to use Antialiasing and Anisotropic Filtering filtering on consoles.  There is also a huge lack of frames per second that I can't stand.

This. PC games are cheaper than console games. I paid $48 for an ME3 pre-order; many big titles go down that cheap as a pre-order. Steam/Amazon sales are amazing to. ME2 was down to $5 within a year, as was Tomb Raider. Overall PC gaming is more expensive, but not by much when factoring in things like expensive DLC, less frequent sales and pay to play online.

Um no http://xim4.com/. Watch the videos if you want to watch people get owned by a kb + mouse on console.

While that's supposed to be a great system (I've thought about getting it myself for my PS3/4, since I still greatly prefer kb/m and don't play console games enough to get fully used to a controller), the xim and other adaptation hardware sets are so niche that his point is still basically true, IMO.  I'd guess the total percentage of console players who use a kb/m adapter have to be under, what, 0.1%? 0.01%?  It's a tiny number, and frankly because they require a bit of techie-type knowledge to set up and configure it's likely that most of those folks are primarily PC players anyway who have the skillset to do that (and like the keyvboard).  The vast, vast majority of console players are using the same control scheme.

On the other hand, the vast, vast majority of PC players who play online are using a keyboard, so I'd say that they aren't much different in the "everyone on the platform has the same setup" category.  But still, I think his point is valid.

Dbl tap

I still disagree.  It doesn't have to be a xim.  The few times a year I play console I do so on a CRT tv.  I top frag against people that play console year round because most people play consoles on laggy LCD tvs

These things don't fit into a console for a reason, you get what you pay for.

Yeah, I have been in that situation.  I used to play console on my large plasma TV.   When I finally got a gaming monitor the difference was shocking.   I have  BenQ now for my xbox and PC.  My connection isn't all that great, but switching to the monitor made it seem like I had a much better connection

I'm pretty happy with PC gaming still. I always have access to my entire collection of games from the last couple of decades, plus emulators for older consoles and handhelds, amazing graphics, and some pretty awesome mods.

The amount of money I've saved on game sales and Humble Bundles has more than made up for the extra money I've spent on hardware.



For FPSs, strategy games, and MMOs I have a good keyboard and mouse. For racing games and platformers I have a PS4 controller that works great. There's dozens of other controllers to choose from as well.

And I have an HDMI cable run to the TV so I can always play on the big TV away from my desk when I feel like it.



I can even kick back and enjoy Skyrim just like you would on a console, but with massively improved graphics and some excellent mods.

I just bought a 4790k, and am waiting on the 880 gtx (now known as the 900 series) before I swap out my current 7970.

Lord Gaben approves.

LAN parties were the shit.  Many hours were spent in Battlefield 1942 and BF2 back in the day.  Plus Quake.

Nowadays I'd guess that most console players do almost all of their gaming, whether coop or adversarial, with friends online rather than next to them.  I mean, Destiny heavily stresses play with friends, and it doesn't even have the option for local coop.  I think Nintendo is the only console maker left that really pushes the "couch coop" angle, and that's only because they have a shitty/non-existent online infrastructure.

LAN parties were a direct result of the technology of the times.  


Nowadays, everyone has some sort of high speed internet.  Online gaming as we know it today is the modern 'LAN party.'

It just doesn't have the same feeling though.

For me it was really fun back in the 90s playing Doom and Rise of the Triad on the work network against a bunch of guys in the same room after hours. It just had this vibe, this notion that you were playing with actual friends who you could throw a pencil at if you wanted. There was no "teamspeak"... teamspeak was yelling at the guy two cubicles up. It was just... fun.

Today it is a bunch of random strangers in lord knows where... shit, 99% of the people on my video game "friends" lists are people I have never once even met in real life. And that is just... I dunno... not that fun to me. And to make matters worse in almost every online game you can't just play exclusively with your friends, you have to play with or against complete strangers... and some of those strangers are weirdos, racists, assholes, griefers, trolls, cheaters or just plain old sonofabitch motherfuckers that I would rather push down a flight of stairs than play a friendly video game with.

Which is why I tend to avoid modern strangerplayer games like the plague.

I hear what you're saying.  But it seems as if you haven't explored the privacy features available.

On a PC, you can usually set up a private server.  I ran several private setups for Counterstrike, Tribes, and so on.

On a console, generally you can set a match to "friends" only.

FWIW - I find less weirdos, racists, assholes, greifers, trolls, and especially cheaters on console (Live, specifically) than anywhere else.  One of the reasons I prefer console over PC.

Possibly because there is no text chat.  Or because there may not be general chat at all.  Possibly because live is a paid service and it hurts (at least a little) to be banned from it.  

Others experience is probably different.

I think PCs are better, but the learning curve is way too steep for someone with my skill set, so I don't even bother.


Because I know next to nothing about PCs:

I was in the same boat last year. I learned about all of it on the ar15.com minecraft teamspeak, there are a lot of guys on their who have built their own PC's they were able to fill me in quickly. Once I was knowledgeable enough to pick my own parts I sent them copies of the stuff I had picked and had them double check it before I bought anything to make sure it was all compatible. In actuality using a gaming PC and knowing about them is vastly cheaper then console gaming for one reason. In this day and age you have to have a computer of some type at your house, so why not spend 400 dollars less and build it yourself. You get a much nicer product and you don't need or want a console when done because your PC will run games better then any console ever could.



There is even this safe to use program now called Team Viewer its lets someone safely access your PC and fix any problems you have. We have tons of nice arfcommers on the minecraft team speak who are more then willing to help you or anyone that asks with any PC problem including myself.



Learning about PC's has saved me so much money IMO its the equivalent of knowing how to fix your own car in the 70's and 80's. It will save you thousands and thousands of dollars over the span of your life and it will make you happier. Life is too short to let inanimate objects rule your life.



If you ever do end up learning how to build a PC I warn you now you will immediately realize anyone who owns a mac laptop or Imac or MacPc or whatever they call them is either insane, stupid, or living in blissful ignorance. It will blow your mind when you realize they paid 1000.00 to 2500.00 dollars for 300-400 dollars in parts and software.



Good luck to you man, if you ever get interested that teamspeak IP is Valhalla.sx



 

Guilty.

When I say that I know next to nothing about PCs, I don't mean "I don't know how to build one," I mean I have no clue how to even use one. (Now do you see what I mean by "steep learning curve"?)

I abandoned PCs and Windows 12 years ago, because I found them very non-intuitive and extremely difficult to use; doing anything always seemed much more complicated than it needed to be.

The extra cost of a Mac is no big deal to me. I call it the "Sanity Tax," and I'm happy to pay it. To have a PC for gaming would literally mean learning how to use a computer all over again.

Another thing to consider, it would never be used for anything other than gaming (I have a computer I actually like for that stuff), so it wouldn't be anything more than a glorified console to me - one I'd be unable to fix, should something go wrong.

I enjoy the simplicity of popping a disc into the XB1 or PS4, laying down on the couch, and gaming on my 80" TV. For me, a PC would turn gaming into a chore... which kind of defeats the whole purpose.

I enjoy consoles. I do. I have owned every console since NES. Currently own a PS4. But, in the end, PC is my go to machine for most of my gaming.

Don't be obtuse.  

If a person is to have one personal computer, odds are it's a laptop.  Laptops have outsold desktops for years.   Portable devices (laptops, tablets, crossovers, etc) have outsold desktops more than 2 to 1 in recent years.  The fastest growing segment is the sub $400 segment.

Hardly anyone is buying desktops any more.  

Further, I call bullshit on your 300-400 in parts and software.  Windows alone is $90.  A good gaming monitor is $200.  And it's still a desktop, not a laptop.


If you're going to compare oranges then compare oranges.

Get both. Ignore the 'tards devoted to one camp like a religion.

Everything has a place and advantages. Only the blind won't see that.

You're not going to find a laptop that you can game on for $400. Most of the people who are buying laptops, tablets, etc are students who are required to have them for school/college. If you're a gamer who wants to play games and doesn't want to spend $1,000, desktops are where it's at.

Windows is free if you have a student email address, which anyone who has taken a class at a community college has. If you already own windows and you have never been to college all you need is an upgrade disk, those range from 25 dollars to 50 dollars. Literally the best gaming monitor money can buy which are any of the 2ms BenQ's are 120.00$ sometimes less when they are on sale. You can Craigslist/backpage monitors for cheaper then that but at 120.00 you really don't have to. Anyone who has owned a PC before already has a monitor though.



This guy puts together a "hackintosh" for 400.00, yes they are 400 dollars in parts or less depending on how much effort you put into getting the parts at a cheaper price.

http://youtu.be/Ldbq1Y1UlII



I don't know why you would want to though the bulk of the best programs aren't compatible with the mac OS.



I realize most people have laptops and not PC's that is a personal choice I notice most people who have laptops NEVER take those laptops out of their house. If they want to pay the extra that's on them. Not to mention laptops are terrible for gaming and this is a thread in the gaming section so I assume we are talking about gaming. If you want to seriously game on a computer at this point in time you need desktop. If you absolutely must have a laptop you will stay pay a lot less possibly even half price for a comparable windows laptop to a macbook. It will run nicer and have more options and more versatility as long as you run a firewall and dont download strange porn on it until it breaks. But this is a thread in the gaming section so laptops are out of the question anyway.



Last week a girl on our minecraft server decided she wanted to switch from a mac to a PC because a lot of the other games we play aren't compatible with macs at all. We put this PC together for her out of parts in 10 minutes



http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mkTMXL



It's better then her mac, it will actually play the games she wants to play, and it is literally 1/3rd the price she paid for her mac. If she ever has a software problem she can have one of us fix it on team viewer for free in minutes, if she has a hardware problem which is almost impossible all she has to do is slide the side off, unplug the malfunctioning part and put a new one in. You can't do that on mac. I put that one together last week so the price went up from 390.00 to 430.00 since the deals I got on the parts have expired but I bet if I did it again I could get it under 400 again or right at 400.00. That computer will blow almost any modern video game out of the water. If you put another 60 bucks in it and upgrade the video card it will 100% positively blow ANY video game out of the water and you wont have to upgrade for years.



 

I've seen decent flat screen monitors at Goodwill for about $30.00 USD. When I get a second monitor that's where I plan on looking.

Enabling a "friends only" game or enabling privacy features means I play alone.

I don't have boatloads of time to sit around and play video games all day and all night, so on the odd chances I make time to do it is usually on the weekends around noon when ZERO of the people on my friends lists are playing... or they are playing games I don't own or don't want to play... so whenever I want to play an online PC game I am forced to play with the unwashed masses and I always seem to find the assholes and weirdos. I think I'm just a magnet for the scum of the internet. And because I don't have days of time to dedicate to playing games I am not an uber leet skillz ninja hacker thumb jockey. I downright suck at most of the games I play... which means online multiplayer is one long string of deaths and failures, punctuated by people telling me how terrible I am.

And what little Xbox 360 multiplayer I've played is TEN TIMES worse from an angry cussing child racist standpoint. I have never in my entire life been called a homo faggot jew ni##er except on Xbox live. Every single one of the Xbox live mutliplayer games sessions I've played, which I can count on two hands and not max out my fingers, were FRAUGHT with angry cursing children and man-children of every walk of life imaginable. The very last game I played was Xbox 360 GTA 5 online months ago and I got called every name in the book by some pre teen sounding kid as he repeatedly killed me over and over and over again just to spite me. He more or less ruined my gaming experience and I never played GTA online again because of him.

That is why I hate modern online gaming.

1.  Your premise was based on the idea that everyone already has a computer anyway, and it's a desktop.  Demonstrably false.

2.  Not everyone has access to an educational license.  And if they do, the EULA is somewhat restrictive.  Regardless, comparing the normal use license on the one hand, with the educational license on the other, is disingenuous.  Further, an OEM windows COA cannot be moved to another machine.

3.  The price of components is beside the point.  If you're going to compare, then compare apples to apples.  Include all costs associated.  That means license costs, monitors (of equivalent speed, pixel size, and density), keyboards, etc.

I note your pcpartpicker link does not include these items at all.

All that aside - I still call bullshit on building an equivalent machine for $400.  You cannot do it.

Undoubtedly.  The point was that yes, most people DO have a computer in the home.  However almost always that computer is a laptop, not a desktop.

As you said, folks aren't going to game on their laptop.  Unless they have a serious passion and money to spend.

The statement is false.  It was perhaps true 10-15 years ago when most people were purchasing desktops.  No so much any more.

 

Yeah, a lot of people don't include the peripherals when they talk about price.  Which is dumb, because obviously you need all that stuff to work.  On the other hand, most console cost arguments don't factor in the cost of a TV.  Most people already have flatscreens these days though, so it's less of an issue.  Of course, you could just use your TV for your PC as well, so you don't really need a separate monitor either (most people would want one though).

It is possible to build the bare box for $400 and get an equivalent machine performance-wise if you shop around; there's quite a few sites out there that have done all the benchmarking to show it's possible.  Since PC parts are always on sale somewhere, it's doable.  However, when I say "box" I literally just mean the actual hardware inside the case, and don't include any software or peripherals.  So it's still a false equivalency.

I'm pretty much a PC only guy except for console exclusives, but I freely admit that the entry point into PCs are more expensive than a console.  The savings you see are all after the fact, with steam sales and free online and whatnot.  It's sort of like reloading, in a way.  The initial cost for the equipment is high, and then you start to save money over time.  The question is whether you will use it enough to make back that initial expense.

Just a question but wouldn't a "like kind and quality" PC-for-console build be running something like Steam OS?

I mean, a game console can't install and run word or excell... it's a dedicated platform. But Steam OS is supposed to be a "free" games-centric OS for PC hardware that promises windows level performance in games that are coded for it. Sure you would lose the "trump card" of a true PS OS being able to do anything you wanted to do, but going with something like Steam OS would eliminate completely the cost of an OS and still enable full power gaming to a degree.

Ehhh....  I really don't care what folks do.  I just want folks to make honest points and not cherry pick arguments, then twist them to extremes.

I consider building another gaming PC every once in a while.  Then I realize I really have no where to put it.  Nor do I care to go buy a desk and take up space in my house.

"But...  you don't have a computer at home?"  Of course I do.  Several.  They are laptops or tablets in various strategic locations.  Like on the nightstand or coffee table.  

Hell...  I am AT WORK (the last bastion of the desktop computer) and i'm sitting on a couch with my laptop in my lap.


Perhaps one of these days I will have a home office with a nice desk and comfy computer chair, and i'll build another gaming PC.  But right now I just don't care enough.

I was not aware it was to be offered as a standalone operating system, per se.  I thought Steam was releasing a "Steambox."  i.e., an off-the shelf-components build 'console' with a custom OS that can play Steam released games.

They are doing that and they are supposed to be releasing a free linux based OS called "Steam OS", which is what the Steam boxes use. Info here.

I have priced a bunch of systems since I made this OP.  

To get a good system with a good video card, you are looking at $900 without a monitor, plus or minus $100.  That is with Windows 8.1, high speed ram, a video card that is equivalent to the Nvidia GTX 760 or better, with a quad core i7 at 3.4 GHz or better, 12 gig ram, with a good 4 slot (RAM) motherboard.

This is picking the parts and building it yourself, or buying something like the Acer Predator.    Throw in another 200-300 for a 22 inch or larger monitor.  

I'm not saying you can't get a decent system for less, but this is for a system that can play all current PC releases on Ultra, comfortably, like Crysis 3 and BF4.  


I've decided to go PC instead of console.  

Reasons where in no particular order.

1.  Already have a huge Steam library for PC and cheap games on Steam are a big plus
2. PCs are upgradeable (in 2 more years, I could throw in a newer video card and be good to go for a while)
3.  Mouse and Keyboard seem way better to me than a controller (except for racing or flight sim, but I can hook up a controller if needed to the PC)
4.  Graphics seem way superior to the consoles overall.
5.  Overall, is much more fun to build/customize your own PC, over a one flavor console.

Good input in this thread, thanks much.

I clarified a bit in an edit.


I've been interested to see how this works out since they first discussed it a while back.  I tend to wonder what the point is.  Steamboxes will still cost whatever their equivalent level PC will cost.  Anywhere from $500 to $6,000.

You might save $90 for a Windows license...  But...  it's $90.


Will one be able to run Teamspeak?  Ventrillo?  How about install custom mods and such?


It seems the steambox loses all the best points of a PC and doesn't gain any of the advantages of the console.

The Steambox is the "consolization" of the PC.

It takes PC's strengths: better graphics, free multiplayer, Steam sales, etc. and pairs them with console's strengths: play-from-the-couch with a controller, guaranteed performance and simple OS with basic navigation.

The Steamboxes are sold at "tiers" (ie teir 1, 2, 3) and Steam games through Steam OS will have tiered settings, so if you own a tier 1 Steam box and buy Witcher 2 (on Steam sale for $5) all you have to do is download the game and hit play and it automatically configures itself for the tier 1 box and gives you the "console experience" of the best possible graphics you can have with no "messing with settings".

I think it is genius.