User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/8/2017 8:48:29 PM EDT
So it's notable that a lot of competitors are using brakes as opposed to cans. Rifleblog's testing found that cans do a much worse job of recoil reduction and maintaining the rifle on target (although it's unclear from the article I read whether they did that test with a can mounted on a brake, and whether the results were different with a brake with and without a can mounted). My question is this: do you keep a brake or a can on your go-to practical rifle, and why? I'm interested to see whether the brakes being more popular is more a function of the 'gun golf' aspect of long range competitions, or whether the practical advantages of a brake translate to it being preferred over a suppressor even in the field.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2017 8:56:11 PM EDT
[#1]
I use a suppressor, but I'm not a competitor. At least not a serious one - I shoot a match now and then but I'm not in it to win.
I do know that my rifle is a lot more unwieldy with the suppressor. Not so much weight, but length. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2017 8:56:34 PM EDT
[#2]
The brake does a better job at cutting recoil and being able to have fast follow up shots. It's also simpler and doesn't give off mirage, even with a cover, and won't loosen. Everyone is wearing hearing protection anyways so a can doesn't really have any advantages over a brake unless you are shooting next to a guy with a can and then it's a nicer day.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 11:20:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#3]
A brake with a can does nothing to reduce recoil over what the can provides. You need the high pressure gas working on the outside atmosphere like thrust from a jet engine.
Edit I guess i don't need to tell a rocketman that. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 2:57:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I'll shoot a can at a steel match doing prone stuff, but you'll never see me with one at a PRS match or similar. The better brakes on the market do a much better job mitigating recoil than any suppressor can.
I like to shoot light rifles and a suppressor pushes it around too much, especially when shooting positionally. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 3:08:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Cans are cool within their limitations.
In an open environment, a brake does more recoil mitigation than a can. I appreciate this, can work with this, and it is my preference. In a closed environment, or where precision is not the utmost priority, a can is great for noise reduction. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 4:51:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
A brake with a can does nothing to reduce recoil over what the can provides. You need the high pressure gas working on the outside atmosphere like thrust from a jet engine. Edit I guess i don't need to tell a rocketman that. Yeah, I figured on that. Do you guys use brakes when you're out, say, long-range varminting, though? I've just always used my suppressor, but I'm interested to see what others are doing. I definitely get the faster follow-up shots and easier spotting, but I still think the more tolerable noise level (if I'm honest, and saying that when I hunt, I'm probably not wearing earpro, especially in the summer) and the masked report (from the perspective of obfuscation of position to the target) are more significant advantages. What say ye? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 4:55:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I'd use a can to shoot coyotes etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 9:53:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TeeRex:
I'd use a can to shoot coyotes etc. This. I need my ears hunting much more than I need recoil reduction. And I only get one set of them. |
|
|
|
MD, USA
|
Posted: 1/9/2017 11:45:09 PM EDT
[#9]
A can actually tightened up the groups on my precision rig, so if I were shooting a prone match or something I'd definitely keep it on.
In a match where length matters maybe not. I also tend to shoot lighter recoiling rifles. If I had a magnum I'd probably prefer a brake. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2017 3:08:16 PM EDT
[#10]
a buddy of mine started shooting PRS style matches last year. he started with his can, but the awkward positions that he was shooting in for his matches made him switch to the JP tank brake in order to make it easier to spot hits/misses.
when i first started shooting beyond 100 yards, i was just shooting my 308 with no muzzle device, and added a precision armament M11 severe duty brake, which makes spotting shots much easier at 400 and 600. i was able to shoot out to 1000 and when the conditions were right you could watch the vapor trail all the way into the target. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 1:12:51 AM EDT
[#11]
I wonder how much emotion is getting in the way of fact. I'm not picking on anyone but the community is bad about that. People who say brake, probably don't have a can. And those with a can probably say can. Maybe I'm wrong. If I have a can with a brake inside, that must be the best of both worlds, right?
Certainly a brake helps the recoil, and cans are quite. Yes cans add weight and length. Since mass mitigates recoil, and the can is full of baffles how could that not mitigate more recoil than a brake that does channel gasses outward but adds little mass? I agree for action type of shooting, moving, shooting awkward positions, etc added length and weight is less desirable. So a brake helps and is more common on competition rifles than supressors. I'll freely admit that once I stated shooting suppressed, I've not given much thought to going to a brake. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 9:00:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
I wonder how much emotion is getting in the way of fact. I'm not picking on anyone but the community is bad about that. People who say brake, probably don't have a can. And those with a can probably say can. Maybe I'm wrong. If I have a can with a brake inside, that must be the best of both worlds, right? Certainly a brake helps the recoil, and cans are quite. Yes cans add weight and length. Since mass mitigates recoil, and the can is full of baffles how could that not mitigate more recoil than a brake that does channel gasses outward but adds little mass? I agree for action type of shooting, moving, shooting awkward positions, etc added length and weight is less desirable. So a brake helps and is more common on competition rifles than supressors. I'll freely admit that once I stated shooting suppressed, I've not given much thought to going to a brake. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 9:52:54 AM EDT
[#13]
What he said. I have a couple cans and use them when I feel like it but at matches they won't be used. The brakes just work better.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 9:59:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Yeah, that was a bit of a joke, brake with can, but some of my AE stuff is set up that way. I went back and read the PRS blog and it's an interesting look at this topic.
Spotting shots, watching trace, etc is completely doable for me with the cans. I will add that I've not tested many of the newer brakes so I cannot comment directly on their effectiveness. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
Yeah, that was a bit of a joke, brake with can, but some of my AE stuff is set up that way. I went back and read the PRS blog and it's an interesting look at this topic. Spotting shots, watching trace, etc is completely doable for me with the cans. I will add that I've not tested many of the newer brakes so I cannot comment directly on their effectiveness. A can helps compared to a bare muzzle big time, but it is a different recoil impulse. Prone its not too bad. When i shoot off barricades and stuff I free recoil the the gun so in that case a brake makes a big difference and you can really feel, and more so see the difference. I also like my match rifles to be on the light side compared to what some people prefer. I'm using the Area 419 hellfire which is one of the newer designs on the market, and it is very effective. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 2/28/2017 12:11:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
I wonder how much emotion is getting in the way of fact. I'm not picking on anyone but the community is bad about that. People who say brake, probably don't have a can. And those with a can probably say can. Maybe I'm wrong. If I have a can with a brake inside, that must be the best of both worlds, right? Certainly a brake helps the recoil, and cans are quite. Yes cans add weight and length. Since mass mitigates recoil, and the can is full of baffles how could that not mitigate more recoil than a brake that does channel gasses outward but adds little mass? I agree for action type of shooting, moving, shooting awkward positions, etc added length and weight is less desirable. So a brake helps and is more common on competition rifles than supressors. I'll freely admit that once I stated shooting suppressed, I've not given much thought to going to a brake. Silencers destroy 100% of the recoil reduction of a brake and offer a meager reduction and kick much harder. That is just factual science, not emotion like you are exhibiting in your guessing game. The Silencerco ASR brake is a very top level performer, even compared to non silencer bearing brakes. Put a silencer on it and that reduction goes away too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2017 10:22:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Unless you have factual data that can be provided, it's just words.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2017 2:43:32 PM EDT
[#18]
My original question is not whether a brake reduces recoil more than a can - it's whether the added recoil reduction of a bare brake is worth the extra shock and noise all-around, or if the suppressor has more intrinsic practical value, even with its lower recoil reduction factor. I asked it earlier = If you had to grab a rifle and actually take some long-range shots on varmints, would you do it with a brake or a can? Essentially, it is distilled into my mind as a debate for how I want to practice. Personally, I lean towards shooting with the can instead of a brake for a number of reasons, but I'm interested in other people's opinions on the matter.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2017 2:55:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
What he said. I have a couple cans and use them when I feel like it but at matches they won't be used. The brakes just work better. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 2/28/2017 4:22:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: garred8787]
[#20]
still waiting on my stamp for mine but I've been shooting suppressed a lot more recently (thanks to my cousin) going from no brake to suppressor is very noticeable in the recoil department. (.308) he has a tbac ultra7 and you can tell the brake has a slight advantage over the suppressor but it sure is nice having the can on. he let me use his 7.62sdn6 this last outing on my rifle and it was fun but holy cow does that thing put off some serious mirage even after 5-10 rounds. he has a cover on the tbac (the snd6 is his 300blk suppressor) looking like I'm going to have to buy a cover for my suppressor once approved.
after being blasted by his gun with just the brake. I have no plans to run un suppressed when shooting along side someone. respect for thy fellow neighbor, lol I don't shoot competition. just good ol fun right now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/1/2017 9:27:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
Unless you have factual data that can be provided, it's just words. Now a suppressor adds weight which helps and it cools the gas quite a bit so I am sure this reduces the velocity exiting the end which mean less thrust pushing the rifle back. A brake inside the suppressor is doing nothing really other than adding a little weight. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 3/1/2017 1:25:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
A brake is working like a jet engine, it is directing gas against the atmosphere. If you cover it with a can attached to the barrel it is no longer working against the atmosphere. Now a suppressor adds weight which helps and it cools the gas quite a bit so I am sure this reduces the velocity exiting the end which mean less thrust pushing the rifle back. A brake inside the suppressor is doing nothing really other than adding a little weight. good explanation on the brake. most suppressors will actually gain muzzle velocity vs lose. A muzzle brake inside a suppressor also serve's as a sacrificial blast baffle lessening erosion to the suppressor it's self. I would much rather replace a brake from erosion than have a expensive/long waiting can damaged. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 1:54:32 PM EDT
[#23]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 1:57:03 PM EDT
[#24]
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/21/muzzle-brake-summary-of-field-test-results/
Other Big Take-Aways Caliber-Specific Brakes – Some of these brakes are only available in 30 caliber, and others are available in any caliber. I tested the recoil reduction on 4 very different muzzle brake designs that I had in all calibers: the APA Little B*, Holland 1.25” Radial QD Brake, Impact Precision Brake, and West Texas Ordnance Brake. I tried the 6mm, 6.5mm, and 30 caliber brakes all on the 6XC, and in all 4 muzzle brake designs, there was only a difference of 1-3% in recoil reduction in terms of both overall momentum and peak force. That really surprised me! I expected the caliber size of the bullet hole in the brake to make more of a difference. But, that’s why I actually run the tests and don’t just talk about this stuff! Adith, one of my sharp readers, had one theory on why this happens, and you can read that comment on the original post. Suppressor Comparisons – I included a high-end 9” suppressor for comparison on the 6mm recoil tests and 30 cal recoil tests for comparison. Compared to the brakes, the suppressor always ended up near the bottom of the list. The top brake was 62-64% more effective at reducing recoil on the rifles tested. I also included a suppressor in the test for staying on target, and while it did slightly better than a bare muzzle … virtually all of the muzzle brakes were better at keeping you on target, and some of them significantly better. It was only fair to include the suppressor in the sound tests too … it was 16 times more quiet than the loudest brake! If you’re going for sound suppression, the decision is clear. If you’re going for recoil reduction and staying on target … you might understand why most of the pros use a brake. Correlation between loudness and recoil reduction – This might not be shocking, but there seems to be a correlation between how loud a brake is, and how well it reduces recoil. Most “quieter” brakes aren’t good at reducing recoil, and most of the brakes that are great at reducing recoil are very loud. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
