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Posted: 6/3/2017 1:22:46 PM EDT
NOTE:  What detail am I missing? I am NOT a benchrest shooter, nor do I want much of their ultra-attentive, time-consuming processes.
Setup: .308 Win.  Lapua brass (new), neck sized only to eliminate mouth deformations.  Sierra 175-gr. TIPPED HPBT MK.  45.0 gr. Varget.  Wolf Large Rifle Primers, and Fed 210M LR primers, RCBS Rockchucker 1-stage press.  Dies (RCBS standard, Forster full-length National Match, Hornady New Dimension Custom Grade).  I plan on annealing soon, every other firing.  I am not interested in:  (1) the time-sump of using sized neck bushings in sizer dies, (2) turning necks, (3) weight sorting brass or bullets.  I am a tactical shooter looking for .250 MOA.
Rifle is Stiller Precision using LW-50 1:10 twist 22-inch barrel that’s shot 0.168” best 3-shot group at 100 yds, averages 0.35” at 100-yards with above handloads.

Facts:

“Factory loaded match ammunition usually exhibits no more than .0015" TIR.” --  Bob Kohl, SinclairInternational.com
Use a “concentricity tool with the dial indicator on the bullet about 1/16th of an inch above the case mouth.” --  Bob Kohl, SinclairInternational.com
“I think even bullets with 1-2 thou runout will be ‘jammed’ in these tight throated chambers we generally use (Most rifles have < 0.001 throat clearance anyway depending on projectile and can be much less than this).”  -- internet forum, www.accurateshooter.com
“U.S. Army tested concluded that run-out of .003" or less has no detrimental effect on accuracy. Over .003" is problematic.”  -- AR15.com
“If you load for accuracy, especially for distance shooting; you want no more than .002" to .003". Ammo with a TIR of .005" is used for shorter ranges. If it goes beyond .005", either use it for practice ammo or very short ranges because accuracy will fall off quickly with that kind of TIR. Even M118 7.62 NATO ammo had problems with TIR depending on the lot, from early M118 to M118LR.” --  Bob Kohl, SinclairInternational.com
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 2:36:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 12:43:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ocabj] [#2]
Why are you chasing 1/4 MOA when your gun is shooting under 1/2 MOA? Unless you are going to do all of the stuff you say you don't want to do, getting to 1/4 MOA isn't going to happen.

While it is well within your right to chase quarter minute, I think with a gun shooting under 1/2MOA, you are better off spending the time on improving your actual self, and not the gun or the ammo. When I shot Service Rifle, all I cared for was my ammo shooting under 1MOA and then I focused on me and solely me, trying to get my cone of (in)accuracy under 1MOA as much as possible.
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 5:09:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ocabj:
Why are you chasing 1/4 MOA when your gun is shooting under 1/2 MOA? Unless you are going to do all of the stuff you say you don't want to do, getting to 1/4 MOA isn't going to happen.

While it is well within your right to chase quarter minute, I think with a gun shooting under 1/2MOA, you are better off spending the time on improving your actual self, and not the gun or the ammo. When I shot Service Rifle, all I cared for was my ammo shooting under 1MOA and then I focused on me and solely me, trying to get my cone of (in)accuracy under 1MOA as much as possible.
View Quote
Exactly right!

a) you WILL have to do all those things you don't want to do
b) even if you do all those things, the gun may still never reach 1/4 MoA
c) only in benchrest activities will the difference between 1/2 MoA and 1/4 MoA make any difference in the final results
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 4:28:18 PM EDT
[#4]
If you are shooting under 1/2 moa and not a benchrest shooter you are done. There isn't much reason for tighter groups. Your time would be better spent learning wind.
Link Posted: 6/12/2017 1:01:42 AM EDT
[#5]
What's your actual question? If you're seeing good results already I wouldn't bother measuring runout.


Why do you consider neck bushings to be a time-sump? As far as I use them, it's a measure-once, set-and-forget deal. Allows me to use a TiN neck bushing with no expander ball in my sizing die, reduces lubing required when sizing brass and probably reduces runout - however I did sell my runout gauge years ago because it was a waste of time and effort to measure my ammo for my purposes.
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