I have this:





And I can't shoot a consistently small group to save my life. Recently upgraded the scope from a Vortex PST 2.5-10x44 to a Nightforce 3.5-10x, and groups remain the same. It's not an ammo issue as I've tried multiple ammo types and for the most part they've all been the same. To my chagrin, they've averaged 1.75-2in groups, anything from standard ball mil surp, to heavy OTM from Black Hills, IMI, CBC, ADI and others, including my own 69gr SMK handloads with Varget.  




I am very sure it is me sucking badly. I am good at combat shooting, fast and minute of man accuracy. But when it comes to shooting tiny groups, I can't do it. I've done plenty of dry fire before, perhaps I need to be more consistent at doing that every night.




The Nightforce has a parallax knob on the side which is new to me. I read the scope manual and for the most part I understand it. To my eyes it made the reticle and target more crisp instead of one or the other blurry. I tried the head nodding and moving side to side but either my head moving the rifle made the rifle move or the reticle kept moving.




I've read that ARs are more unforgiving than bolt guns. I wouldn't know as I only shot bolt guns when I was much younger and then joined the military and everything I've shot since then has been an AR type weapon.




Not really sure what to do at this point. I am pretty certain the rifle and ammo combinations are capable, it's just the shooter. Where would you start a new precison AR shooter? What's the beginning step, more dry fire?


 

Consistent cheek weld can make quite the difference and is often overlooked. On my A2 stocked rifle I stuck a cheek pad on there to help get the exact same spot everytime. You'd be surprised how much of a difference that can make.

And yes practice your fundamentals, some good dry fire practice will never hurt, as long as you aren't developing a bad habit during all that dry fire practice.



Do you have a halfway decent trigger in there? That usually helps you don't necessarily have to spend an arm and a leg on one to get a better then a lot of "GI"triggers.

 
I'll get some moleskin and place it for perfect eye relief so I have a constant spot to go to.


Trigger is a Geissele SSA-E so that should be good.


Any good resources I should take a look at?

Right now my goal is to train to the point where I can get consistent 1moa groups at 100. That's going to take a lot of ammo I think. I've started reloading so I'm thinking about components. Would it be best to stock up on 69/77gr Sierras/Noslers? Or a cheaper alternative like the 40-55 gr flat base hollow points?

Let someone else shoot it.  The rifle looks nice and most decent AR's can hold MOA or better pretty easily, but that doesn't mean all will. Having a known good shooter try it will at least eliminate (or confirm) that possibility.

Looks like you have ruled out a scope issue by changing to another. Have you checked the barrel nut to make sure it is tight? Also, check the crown of the barrel for any irregularity that might be causing your problem.

My groups started to tighten up when I began calling my shots. I think it helps you concentrate a little harder on making sure the trigger breaks at the right time.

Nice gun BTW

The key to shooting small groups is consistency.



Work on your position.  Work on your cheek weld, same place, same pressure, work on loading your bipod (you don't need to break the legs, but load them somewhat and try to be consistent. Work on getting your shoulder loaded up and into the gun so you have no fear of recoil or scope bite. Check for parallax, hold the rifle still and move your eye around...is the crosshair shifting on the target?  Fix it.



Once you're snuggled up properly, fix in your mind how you got there, and what it feels like, so you can do it next time.



Now it is sight alignment and trigger control.  Focus on the crosshair with the intent of watching it lift in recoil. Don't squinch your eyes, don't yank the trigger, just be an interested observer of the recoil and press the trigger to the rear.  Follow through to watch your impact.



It gets easier the more you do it.

 
Assembly is all correct. I've stripped it all down and inspected everything for damage, reinstalled everything to specifications. I guess I need more dry fire time.

Establish a good Natural Point of Aim.





Hand/finger placement should be the same on the grip/trigger.





The amount of pull should be the same.





The placement of the stock in the shoulder should be the same.
When dryfiring or firing, followthrough. Watch the reticle's behavior. Ideally, the sight picture should not be disturbed before the bullet is out of the bore, but usually there is some movement. Make small changes to your position to make the movement more consistent and reduce it.





In my experience, NPoA and hand/finger placement affects horizontal spread. Pull and placement in shoulder affects vertical spread.






 

THIS!

You are looking at a system, and you need to evaluate each component that makes up the system. (shooter, rifle, optic, ammo)

If you put some additional quality shooters on the rifle who can produce results significantly better than what you are shooting, then chances are the problem is due to the trigger puller.

You may also be surprised to find out that they are not able to do any better than you, in which case there is more than likely a problem with another part of the system (rifle, optic, ammo). Sometimes you just get a wonky barrel that will not group well.

If it turns out you are the problem, you can take what has been recommended above, and try to put it into practice. IMHO, you really need someone who knows what they are doing observing you shoot, and running you through specific drills, because they will ultimately be able to identify and correct issues you will not on your own. Some shooters can figure it out on their own, but the best shooters usually get that way with help!

What kind of rests are you using?

I'll have to keep an eye open for good shooters at the range, the times I go it's usually pretty empty.

Shot a little today and starting to see some improvement but still inconsistent. just need more dry fire and trigger time.


Rest, I'm using sandbags. Green and black Caldwell bag but it's kind of tall so I lay it on its side and brace the handguard on either side with smaller bags. I also have a sand filled leather bag with like ears to hold the stock.

NPA
Solid position for recoil.
Trigger follow through.
These are some of the major thing that helped me.

Shot today. Groups at 100 were the same, 1.5in maybe a little more, little less. Decided to push it out to 200 and with the exception of 1 round, the other 4 were in a nice line, all touching, coming in under an inch. By this time I was running low so went back to 100 yards and dialed the scope down to 8x and managed to shoot 2 groups that were nice and round, tight clusters of under an inch and just over an inch on the second one.

So I've come to the conclusion that too much magnification is hurting me. I'll try again with CBC 77gr in a couple days, have to work tomorrow.


Things are starting to improve. Today was a good day

We are in the same boat, and here is what has been working for me:


Get a little notebook and take notes about your body position, cheek weld, trigger finger, grip. Find a way to write it so you remind yourself exactly what/where/how you did it.
Dry fire by the numbers, step-by-step from your notes.
Do the same thing at the range.

Targets make a difference. Try some circles, squares, diamonds.. Big, small..Ones with hash marks , ones without ones with grids, ones without, etc. I tend to group better within larger shapes than smaller. The focus on the center of 3-4 inch circle at 100yds usually gets better groups than shooting at 1-2 squares.