Remington 700 rifle with IOR Valdada 16X42 scope in Seekins rail and rings.

Still thinking that my reticle is not level. I initially used the level and a vertical reference (hanging string) a couple of years ago when I first installed scope. Going to range this weekend to try a couple of tests but in the mean time I want to try to get my head around the following issues......

Rifle has done well at 100 and 200 yards. Hoping to shoot at 600 to 1000 in near future. I still feel that my reticle is slightly canted.

I put a bubble level in my receiver and rested it on the rails. Not level at all but that shouldn't matter, correct?

I put the level on the scope body and the turret and get the following:






My question is.....It doesn't matter about the bipod / rifle adjustment....the scope reticle needs to be level PERIOD, correct?......in other words.....my bipod is mounted and the legs are in the resting position with no adjustment made, rifle looks pretty level. I need to make any correction to the bubble level by adjusting the scope in the rings, correct?

Mount some form of bubble level to the rail on your receiver.

http://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/optic-accessories/scope-anti-cant-devices/bubble-level-prod1758.aspx

Then do whatever it takes (shooting rest, sand bags, etc) to get your receiver sitting level using the bubble level.

Now your receiver and that bubble level will serve as your reference as to "what is level".


Put a vertical reference down range, you can hang a piece of string / make a plumb line, use a long 3 foot carpenter's level, etc. Whatever you are going to use, it MUST be level!

Without disturbing the rifle, and making sure that it stays level, look through the scope and insure the vertical line in your reticle is lined up perfectly with your vertical reference down range. If not, rotate it until it is. You have now leveled your scope to your known reference.

Now when you level your bubble level on your receiver, you will have leveled your scope.

There are other ways that you can do it, but that is the simplest, quickest, easiest way that I know of to do it.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

Easiest way to level your scope (assuming it's a decent quality scope)

Arisaka Optic Leveler

Very good tool to mount the scope level, thanks for posted the link.

You can also use a set of Feeler Gauges
http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html
Just select the right amount until you have enough to fill the void between the bottom of the scope and the top of the rail.

However without some type of level mounted on the rifle (or scope), you will not know if you are holding your rifle level when you go to fire!

Thanks,
M Richardson

When you shoot the reticle should always be level to the world. Keeping the optical axis of the scope over the centerline of the bore also helps, but I think it needs to be off pretty far before that would cause much windage error. It doesn't really matter how the stock, trigger and magazine are twisted as long as that arrangement lends itself to holding the rifle constantly that way. The level of the rifle as it sits on the bipod doesn't mean anything as the ground is rarely level. If the bipod causes the reticle to be out of level, then you need to adjust the bipod.

Thanks for all the posts, I am digesting it now.......I could have possibly shortened it a bit......

I cannot grasp the point of how to verify that the center of the bore and the center of the vertical reticle line are in the same plane....Am I worrying about it too much?

I will use the plumb method and the vertical adjustment shot method to make sure the reticle is level.....I am assuming also that the vertical adjustment shot method would also confirm that the vertical reticle is in line with the center of the bore.....

I think I have made good decisions on the equipment, now just have to work out the issue with the shooter.....

Understood....this is confirming my thoughts.....thanks a bunch (and to everyone else).....

Holy shit.....how easy is that.....what a tool......!!!

Rifle/Scope Cant will kill your accuracy at long ranges.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/optics/canting-effect-on-point-of-impact/

Some rough numbers, a 5 Degree Cant at 100 Yards will put you off your point of aim by about 0.35 MOA.

Not a big issue at that close range, but doing the math, that would mean your point of aim and point of impact would be off by 3.5 MOA at 1,000 yards (that is 35 inches of miss)!

To insure this does not happen, the horizontal axis of your scope (horizontal component of your reticle) must be level with the horizon/ground.

The only way to know that this is the case with high degree of certainty is to use some type of an Anti-Cant Device or Bubble Level.

You can use one that mounts to the rifle, mounts to the scope, or is built into your scope mount.

Whichever you use, the key is to make sure that the Anti-Cant Device/Bubble Level and your scope are both setup level with the horizon/ground.


Once you have it all setup, there are some ways to test it shooting:

Tall Target Test


Box Test


NOTES:
Distance - start with these tests/targets at 100 yards. You can also run them at further distances where a Cant Error would be more obvious, but you have to make sure your groups stay small & consistent enough to interpret, and the wind is not becoming a factor.
Scope Tracking - these tests can also be used to evaluate how accurately your scope is tracking. If you dial 12 MOA does it move 12.5" or does it move 11.5"? Some results could be interpreted as being a Cant Error, when in reality they could be a tracking/adjustment value issue.

Questions on anything fire away, those tests can be hard to explain & understand via a format like this.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

captrichardson, Thanks this clears up a lot of thing for me also. Now I know what I'll be doing at the range next time. Of course I'll have to wait till some of the 2 feet of snow disappears first

i used 1 of those once, but could never find it for sale... sweet...

normaly i use a feller gauge or "tilt ruler" method..

Thanks for posting that link.  I'm going to make something similar on a 3d-printer.

I talked to a guy from nightforce at a NRA show and he said "I just shove a bunch of business cards between the bottom of the scope and the rail."

Using a deck of cards seemed to work for me.  The LaRue mount and bottom of the turret were both flat so it seemed pretty straight forward.

My Spuhr mount came with a wedge

I've used flat feeler gauges to level my scopes. Take one set of and lay them on the one piece mount then slide the others under the turret. That has worked for me on several set ups.

I then have a small magnet level on a cabinet in the garage and can set my gun on the island in the kitchen and look through the scope into the garage at the level on the cabinet.

Another thing I do is I have several of my target stands set up with the top bar level. My 100 yard, 300 yard and 575 yard target stands are leveled at the top. I can then use these to check the level of the reticle compared to my bubble level mounted on the scope. If all three are level then I think the scope should be good to go.

Use a metal ruler, such as from a small T square.

Just hold it flat against the base/pic rail and tilt it upwards to meet the flat bottom of the scope turret housing (loose in the rings) such that it trues the scope with the base.  You will feel it marry up.  

Hold it like that and have someone tighten it down.  

Done.  Nothing further is necessary.    

In a slightly different way, this is doing the same mechanical truing job as the arisaka thingy.

"I put a bubble level in my receiver and rested it on the rails. Not level at all but that shouldn't matter, correct? "

Yes, it does with the method you are using.

SWEET!  I plan on using a JP rifles mount and a Bushnell Tac Elite 3-12.  Anywone know if I should order the regular small or the combo?

Best method I've found...

Level the rifle on a bipod with the butt stock approx. 3 -4 feet from a white wall.  Shine a bright LED flashlight into the objective end of the optic and it will project the reticle onto the wall.  If you place a towel on the rail you can simply leave the flashlight in place.  Now you have a very BIG reticle on the wall that you can place a large carpenters level against.  What I really like about this method is that you don't need to be looking through the optic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COoXVpGfXQE

Thanks for the info. I'll be leveling a scope soon. I'll check the other one I had mounted too. Bet he just eyeballed it

It is a fantastic tool.