Gents,

Bare with me as I am a novice hunter and this topic has likely been discussed at length. However, I haven't yet read anything here on ARFCOM and so I appeal to the hive for some education.

I currently have a 12 ga. Remington 870 Express Super Magnum, but I want to move up to an gas autoloader. I am looking to do Upland, Waterfowl, and Turkey with the new shotgun. I've been going out trying and feeling several guns and have narrowed down my choices. My question is, with modern ammo selections, is a 3.5" chamber necessary? I bagged a couple of Canadas last season with Kent Fasteel 3.5" BB, but I read often that 3" is plenty. Most 3" guns seem to be cheaper than their larger counterparts, but I like the ideaof a gun being able to fire all three standard lengths 2.75-3.5".

I was leaning hard towards a 3.5" Winchester SX3 or Beretta A300 Xtrema (Versa Max felt too 'blocky' to me and didn't swing and shoulder as well and Maxus is a bit out of my price range) but if a 3" gun will suffice, perhaps the Beretta A300 Outlander or Remington V3...if I can find it.

Any insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I've never been under gunned with a 3".

But it's really a personal choice. Get what calls to you.

FPNI  

I have a 3.5" SX3 and I love it. I got the 3.5 version because it's better to have and not need than need and not have. I only use 3.5 for turkey however. 3"for waterfowl. I'm sure 3 would do the job fine on turkeys, because 3.5" is only a little faster or a little heavier than 3". If you put the pellets where they need to be at a good range, they will do the job. I believe 3.5 is only necessary for much farther shots. Good luck

I like 3-1/2 BB or BBB for Geese (Canada Geese).   For ducks 3" is plenty.  I suspect plenty for light geese - snows, ross, etc as well.

If you were consistently able to decoy geese in to close range, 3" would be fine.  The longer pass shots I like the 3-1/2".  

I shoot a Beretta A400, my hunting partner shoots an A391.   I like my A400, but I've had some trouble with it cycling 3-1/2" federal or winchesters. It cycles 3-1/2" Kents just fine.  The Kents are 1/8" or so shorter than the feds or winchesters. If I'm shooting winchester 3-1/2" I'll float the second shot on the lifter rather than stuffing it into the magazine.  On the longer shells the shell stop on the magazine doesn't seem to catch the third shell so it it feeds 2 shells and jambs.  This does not happen with Kents.

My waterfowl gun has a 3.5" chamber, but 90%+ of the time I am running 3" shells in it. It is nice to have that flexibility though.

Thanks for the replies, guys! I was leaning towards a 3.5" for the flexability/versatility, but was also looking into 3" given all I've been reading lately and the trend seems to be 3.5" 12 ga. really came into its own when lead was banned for waterfowling because steel shot was not as dense as lead shot and it took more pellets  of steel to perform as well as lead used to and that there are now better 3" alternatives to steel (i.e. hevi shot, tungsten, etc.) that perform just as well if not better than steel in 3.5"...albeit at added cost of ammo. In addition 3.5" guns are sometimes heavier and usually more expensive.

Ii suppose the only time I would shoot a 3.5" would be for geese, but we called in over decoys last hunt and most shots they were literally right on top of us. One goose I took was on a pass shot, broadside at about 40+ yds with a 3.5" Kent and dropped it dead right there.

Yup, that 40 yd shot is why 3.5".  The higher pressures available to the 3-1/2 you get more payload and more speed.

The hevi-shot etc is nice - but it's over $3.00 a shell.  No thanks.  I did buy some when I was shooting a 3" o/u and had a swan tag.  For a while environmetals (who markets hevi-shot) sold a product called hevi-steel which was a somewhat lighter matrix of tungsten and steel which gave a density similar to bismuth (about halfway between steel and lead).  I liked that stuff but they quit making it several years back.  Now they make something called hevi-metal which is their economy non-tox load.  It is essentially a mix of steel shot in the listed size on the box, with a percentage of their hevi-shot (denser than lead tungsten shot) in smaller sizes mixed in.   I haven't tried it, but I've read some decent reports on it.  There is a lot of carping on various waterfowl forums because the environmetals folks are kind of quiet about exactly what it is that is in their shells (i.e. metal densities and composition, percentages in mixed loads, etc)  

Frankly, if the birds are in range, BB or BBB steel does the job at something under $1.00 a shell.  I've done fine with #2 steel on geese when conditions were right.  You can have the densest metal on earth and it won't help a bit if you miss.

Generally in our hunting spot there are ducks around pretty much anytime, geese you can usually hear coming a long ways off.  I keep 3" shells in the gun, with a pocket full of 3-1/2" shells handy.  If geese are moving or we can hear them coming I swap out if I have time.  We get surprised often enough, but thems the breaks.  I  keep thinking about putting my o/u in the blind with 3" shells for ducks and leave the A400 for geese - but thats more stuff to haul to the blind in the morning.  I tend not to shoot ducks with the 3-1/2" loads, no real logical reason, I just don't do it. Just feel silly pasting some poor mallard with a load of 3-1/2" BBB's.

I am a fan of 3.5 for water foul. 3.5" magums with #2 shot with a modified choke out of my 835 is serious duck medicine.

I've never been a 3.5" fan.  I've never felt under gunned with a 3". However people who shoot geese for a living swear by them.

Same here; but I don't goose hunt.



 

+1

If goose hunting was my bag, I would have got the 3.5" version of my A400.  It's all upland game and maybe..  maybe...  ducks over decoys or jumping them on the river.

I've only goose hunted once before. It was a lot of fun, but no matter how hard I try to church it up, goose will never be as tasty as duck, turkey and pheasant. I had my Canadas made into sausage and even then there was some pork, herbs, and spices mixed in to make it palatable. So, I don't forsee too much hardcore goose hunting in my future. I have yet to try grouse or quail, but I imagine it's good to go. I forsee whichever gun I end up with being used for the occasional sporting clays, then a fair amount of upland, turkey and waterfowling. So...the bulk of shooting done with 2.75" and 3" loads. I was hoping a 3" could do it all given advances in modern ammo, but a 3.5" would make steel cheaper than a 3" tungsten counterpart. I've heard it argued, for and against the 3.5", both ways now...

Thanks again, guys! Much obliged.

My go-to goose recipe is a crock pot pot roast.   I breast the bird, take the thighs and legs, put them in a crock pot with a package of liptons onion soup.  Enough water to cover and a couple a onions as well.  Cook all day on low (Low, not High!).  Somewhere later in the day add spuds and carrots.   Even my wife loves it.  Very much like roast beef, a little drier, but very good flavor and quite tender.  Even bigger older birds come out fine.  We get 2 or three meals out of one bird.

Even grilled they are fine - just grill to medium rare.  Do not over cook waterfowl - unless you like like shoe leather that tastes like swamp water marinated liver.  If I'm grilling them I marinate in soy sauce and olive oil for a bit, then a shake of decent grilling salts, then its off to the grill.  Keep them red to pink in the middle - no more.  It's not poultry - you don't need 165 degrees.  Treat it more like you would beef.

I also age them by hanging outdoors for a while, up to several days weather permitting.  If it's too warm out, then I will breast them and dry age them in the refrigerator for up to a week.


One other 'what I do'  I never buy 2-3/4" steel.  Fuzzy logic, but I know if I have a 2-3/4" shell in my pocket it can't be steel.  I also can't grab a handful of old shells that have rolled around in a pocket or a box for a season and worn the ink off of the hulls and accidentally get a handfull of lead pheasant loads in my pocket.  The FWP wardens get upset if you have lead shot on your person when hunting waterfowl.  So if I have a 3" shell in my hand I know it's steel or at least its non-tox of some form, if I have a 2-3/4" shell in my hand I know it isn't steel / non-tox.

The last goose I ate (besides my sausage sticks) was in a slow cooker. It could easily pass for beef. Still didn't enjoy it as much. Duck is another story. Used to get it on holiday dinners, but since Grandma died years ago, I have been left to my own devices...

Kent Tungsten Matrix?  If so, that's a different animal all together.  It, in my opinion, is the only true equal to lead...in fact, it is superior to lead.  

3.5" for turkeys and geese, and ducks when they get skittish and light on the outside of the spread.  3" #3s in the timber.

I'll second the cooking methods. For goose on a Weber, wait until 15 or 20mins after you would have put a steak on the coals, salt and pepper the bird, put it on the grill breast down and shake Worchestershire sauce on it until it runs to the breast and is dripping on the coals. Turn after 5mins. Coat with Worchestershire sauce again, and every 10mins. Total cooking time to rare is about 35mins. If the bird was never in the freezer the skin is good, if it was ever frozen, the skin will be bitter so peel or cut it away. Works fine on a gas grill, but better on a charcoal grill.

If you do a fair bit of goose hunting the 3.5" comes into it's own. If I'm in a goose pit or blind I'm using a 10ga (with Hevi Metal 2's or BB's,) which has a very slight payload advantage but a substantial velocity advantage over the 12ga 3.5" for a given payload. But we hunt places, usually over water, where ducks and geese are both likely prospects and that is where the 12ga 3.5" shines. I'll load with 3.5" No 2 Hevi-Metal which work fine on geese and mallards, blacks, all of the larger ducks.

The discontinued Hevi-Steel was great stuff, the Hevi-Metal is pretty good.

If I'm using steel for ducks, I prefer 3" 4's early season, 3's later, though I prefer Kent's Tungsten Matrix 2 3/4" No 5's all season for all ducks.

I using steel for geese then BB's in either 3.5" 12ga or 10ga.

I like it when the birds drop dead, but I have two good labs which are all too ready to tackle a running or swimming goose or duck. I try to buy cases of Hevi Metal or Tunsten Matrix to get the best deals, but with the dogs don't mind shooting steel if I can't find a good deal on Hevi Metal or Tungsten Matrix.

FWIW, I find myself short shucking my pump 12ga 3.5" when using 3.5" Hevi Shot, probably because of the stouter recoil. So those are off the menu, which is fine since they cost so much.

For turkeys I sue the 12ga 3.5" shooting 3.5" No 6's.

JPK

If you already have a 3.5" gun, and you're going to hunt upland, I would go the other way, and get a light handy gun to carry after quail, dove, and pheasant.  Maybe a 20, probably a 12 (depending, I go on a pheasant hunt every year and didn't like the 20).

Any of those 3.5" monsters with long bbls are going to get heavy if you're following a bird dog around all day.

One gun that does everything rarely does anything well.

I like the ability to function all common rounds through mine and have felt that I made some shots that wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't been shooting 3.5" shells. I normally run three inch however later in the season and for geese my third round in usually a 3.5".

Feild and Stream did a great test regarding your exact question which I'll drop the link below.


Shoot straight and happy hunting!


http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2013/08/truth-about-shogun-ammo

I have that same pump OP. ( '02 or '03 model w/ camo )

These days I only seem to be using it for Turkey, but it works well on geese too. ( obviously )

With ducks I just use my 3" 11-87.  ( It's a '90 or '91 model.  Can't remember the exact year I bought it )


If you can swing the cost of a fast handling 3.5" autoloader, go for it.

But it sounds like you only need something that will help you for upland birds.... as your current 870 works fine for the big birds.

Maybe a 3" 20GA semi-auto or over and under would work for you ?

Same here. Only difference is I have a Benelli SBEII. 3.5" is a great thing for the Canadian geese up here. 3" on ducks all day and for most anything else, 2.75" is all you need. Safe yourself the money, shooting 3.5" on ducks will just burn a whole in your pocket

Edit: I jerky all my goose

3 1/2" for geese, 3" for duck, and 2 3/4" for upland. That's how I do it. Geese can take a lot of punishment and I really can't stand shooting something and seeing it fly off wounded.

Waterfowl is by far the exception for me so shotguns are all 3" chambers.  I use 2 3/4" mostly for upland game, I have used some 3" prairie storms in the past for late season pheasants but the cost makes that definitely a rare thing.

I figure if I end up pass shooting geese, it will be such a rare thing I'll nut up and buy the expensive 3" hevi-shot or something similar for that trip.  Over decoys, 3" steel is fine on ducks and geese.

Unrelated CSB:  As a kid I was in a duck blind.  I had 3" BBB as we were expecting geese.  A green wing teal came floating into our decoys and without thinking I shot it.  It was very messy.

Geese are delicious. Even snow geese. Gotta know how to cook 'em. This is my simple recipe, but it works for me.

4 cups soy sauce
2 cups packed brown sugar
2 teaspoons garlic powder
2 teaspoons onion powder
8 tablespoons (1/2 cup) lemon juice
8 teaspoons ground ginger
6 goose breasts

Combine soy sauce, brown sugar, garlic and onion powders, lemon juice and ginger, mix well to dissolve the sugar. Reserve one cup of marinade. Pour remainder over goose breasts and marinate, covered, at least two hours. I usually marinate it overnight in the refrigerator.

Remove the meat from the marinade and grill over hot coals for a short time; ideally about 10 minutes to cook. Brush meat with reserved marinade two or three times while cooking. Slice meat into rather thin slices. I like slices about an eighth of an inch thick. Fold into warm flour tortillas and serve with pico de gallo, sauteed onions and fried rice. These goose fajitas even get high marks from my MIL, and that woman doesn't like anything I do.

FWIW, I have a Winchester Super X2 that is a goose hammer. I have a Briley choke in it and I'm happiest with 3" BBB, but it's nice having the option to go 3.5".

3" will be able to do the job no problem

3" is fine.  3.5 is for bragging rights.

I have a 3.5" gun rarely shoot 3.5" shells. Usually if I think about taking it and some 3.5s for an actual goose hunt and not geese coming in while duck hunting I will put it back and grab a 10ga.

I'd consider more what action you want.  A 3.5" semi will not have the versatility and reliability of 3.5 pump.  Try a 2.5 oz  load then 7/8 oz  load and you'll understand the semi must be tuned some to the load.  I like 2.75 " chambers for quick light and short semis.  3" mid length barrel semis for gen purpose and 3.5" long barrel pump for deep in the swamp waterfowl stuff.

3 inch is fine, I'm shooting a moderately modified saiga and killing the hell out of both geese and ducks.

This year I'm shooting heavy metal 4s, and if the bird is between me and the far decoy (about 45 yards) it's dead in the water

Im not sure what y'all are talking about with the heavy steel, I'm still seeing it listed on their site, unless it's a new version